Well done Enry

Want to let people know about your event? Post it here, not forgetting to add to the Kibkom Calendar too.

Moderators: PoshinDevon, Soner, Dragon

Post Reply
gates
Business contributing to forum
Business contributing to forum
Posts: 1170
Joined: Sat 25 Aug 2012 6:42 am

Well done Enry

  • Quote
  •   Message 1 of 7 in Discussion

Post by gates »

Read in the paper today they are putting a statue to old Henry Cooper . What an icon this man was i remember getting up at 2am to watch his fights with Ali . He relay deserves a statue . I remember the beatings he took and gave . I used to have to go to Wembley a lot in those days were he had a green grousers shop on the corner . I had to go on Monday after his last fight with Alli and the beating he took i thought theres no way he will be there today . But there he was helping some old girl with her basket what a man . If anybody needs remembering it was Enery and his hammer . Memerierise that will last for ever . Good on your Enery the only thing that stopped him wining the heavy weight champion was his cuts over the eyes

EnjoyingTheSun
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 3389
Joined: Fri 16 Mar 2018 4:46 pm

Re: Well done Enry

  • Quote
  •   Message 2 of 7 in Discussion

Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

gates wrote: Good on your Enery the only thing that stopped him wining the heavy weight champion was his cuts over the eyes
And Rocky Marciano, Floyd Patterson, Ingemar Johansson, Sonny Liston and Muhammed Ali. Plus he wouldn't have got past Zora Folley, Cleveland Williams, Eddie Machin, Nino Valdes etc etc etc

I loved our Enry but lets keep some proportion here
Johansson Ko'd him in the 5th, Patterson in the 4th, Ali in the 5th and the 6th. His manager said he wouldn't let Enery into the same room as Liston let alone the same ring.
Yes he knocked Ali down but the split glove etc was a myth, Ali got an extra 6 seconds between rounds and stopped Cooper in the next round.

gates
Business contributing to forum
Business contributing to forum
Posts: 1170
Joined: Sat 25 Aug 2012 6:42 am

Re: Well done Enry

  • Quote
  •   Message 3 of 7 in Discussion

Post by gates »

I saw both fights if Enery had not cut his or Clay did not cut his eye he would have won and as for beating Sunny Listen we all know that was a set up . You would never have knocked that man down with a feather he did , did he that fight was a fix both fights were fixed thats why he was killed in an alley
Also Clay never had a fruit & veg shop that was open again on the Monday after Henry Copper was one of our greatest sports men fighting for peanuts still operating a shop . Who out of all the boxers has ever done that . Clay was given the tittle and could not even knock out Patterson even when he was falling in front of him from exhaustion . Dont knock our greats that in them days put up class for penny's . The statue is well deserved same it could not of been in front of his old shop >. As for Clay i still used to get up & watch the fixed fights some were good with foreman & Fraser
Well done Enery one of our greats

jofra
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 1454
Joined: Mon 14 Jul 2014 10:19 pm

Re: Well done Enry

  • Quote
  •   Message 4 of 7 in Discussion

Post by jofra »

Disregarding various personal opinions as to who was better than who, I do remember that both Henry and his twin brother George (who boxed under the name of Jim Cooper) were noted by the press as being somewhat handicapped by their susceptibilty to cuts....

EnjoyingTheSun
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 3389
Joined: Fri 16 Mar 2018 4:46 pm

Re: Well done Enry

  • Quote
  •   Message 5 of 7 in Discussion

Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

gates wrote:I saw both fights if Enery had not cut his or Clay did not cut his eye he would have won
If he had been more skilled, quicker, bigger and better able to take a punch he might have been better than Ali. But he wasn’t so he wasn’t. Enry gave it a good go in both fights but at best the fights were level when Ali stopped him. They are on youtube, watch them.
Interestingly he predicted he would beat Enry in 5 in the first fight and looked to be coasting in the first 4 rounds. In those days Ali was known to ensure his predictions would come true by carrying opponents. Did the referee stop the fights too early? No, they were fair stoppages before even half the fight was over. Is there any indication in Copper’s record, of being a good English heavyweight in an average era, that he could beat Ali? No. The best win of his career was against Folley on points, a defeat that Folley avenged with a KO in round 2.
Apart from that, every time Cooper stepped up in class, he lost, as his defeat to Johansson (KO in 5) and Patterson (KO in 4) indicate. Throw in defeats against B grade opponents like Erskine, Bygraves, Richardson etc and it shows Enry was a good solid English heavyweight, end of broadcast.
As for the punch, Ali was always pulling away from punches and leaning back and light on his feet so could be caught which Cooper did. Had the punch been 2 minutes earlier and Ali not landed on the ropes, who knows? But that’s coulda woulda shoulda. What did happen was Ali then came out in the next round and stopped Cooper, in the round he predicted. Cooper’s punch wasn’t half as powerful as Frasier’s in 1971 and Ali was down for 2 seconds from that too. Whatever you think of Ali as a fighter he could take a punch.
gates wrote: and as for beating Sunny Listen we all know that was a set up . You would never have knocked that man down with a feather he did , did he that fight was a fix both fights were fixed thats why he was killed in an alley
The second fight KO looked dubious I’ll grant you that but the first fight was on the level. Liston was a mob fighter. There was no way they could control Ali who was under the influence of the Nation of Islam so why would they throw the HW championship of the world. It is the richest prize in sport, how much could you make fixing a fight in comparison? And BTW Liston wasn’t killed in an alley.
gates wrote: Also Clay never had a fruit & veg shop that was open again on the Monday after Henry Copper was one of our greatest sports men fighting for peanuts still operating a shop . Who out of all the boxers has ever done that .
OK in so far as it is relevant I’ll go on the record and say that Cooper was the greatest ever heavyweight who also owned a fruit and veg shop. Also you kind of make my point there, how come Cooper was fighting for peanuts if he was the equal or better than Ali?
gates wrote: Clay was given the tittle and could not even knock out Patterson even when he was falling in front of him from exhaustion .
I assume you are talking about the first fight when Patterson lasted until the 12th rather than the second when Ali stopped him in the 7th. If you knew your boxing you would know that Ali deliberately carried Patterson to torture him because he kept calling him Clay before the fight. He did the same against Terrill. It was very cruel but neither was Willie Pep but they were still great fighters. That said Ali’s ko % is much higher than Cooper’s against a far higher quality of opponent.
gates wrote: Dont knock our greats that in them days put up class for penny's . The statue is well deserved same it could not of been in front of his old shop.
I’m not knocking him, he well deserves his statue but I was just picking up on your statement that Cooper could have been HW champion except for cuts. That is why I listed Marciano, Patterson, Johannson, Liston and Ali. These were the champions while Enry was a contender. Who could he beat? He lost to Patterson, Johannson and Ali, Marciano or Liston? His manager Jim Wicks avoided both because he knew that they wouldn’t just beat Cooper, they would hurt him, maybe permanently. Wicks was a good manager for Cooper because he cared about him. I like many liked Frank Bruno but I never deluded myself that he was a grade A heavyweight or stood an earthly against Tyson.
gates wrote: As for Clay i still used to get up & watch the fixed fights some were good with foreman & Fraser
So every fight of Ali’s was fixed? Him and Fraser sure dished out a lot of punishment in fixed fights! If you knew anything about boxing you would know that Frasier hated Ali and would have never thrown a fight against anyone especially Ali.

gates
Business contributing to forum
Business contributing to forum
Posts: 1170
Joined: Sat 25 Aug 2012 6:42 am

Re: Well done Enry

  • Quote
  •   Message 6 of 7 in Discussion

Post by gates »

I never said every fight was fixed but both was with Listern we all know that . Clay hit the back of his head when he was falling over . At that time nobody wanted to fight Listern as the man had the mightiest punch going . It was a fix . As for the rest well Norton knocked out Foreman then the man witch was know to not have a punch knocked out a fit well bred fighter that after that was never seen again funny but if you were paid millions what would you do
The bloke in the end was an icon but he got there through cheating I went to see the Bruno Bugner fight at Spurs ground i had a grand on Bruno as i knew that Bugner would stand about as much chance with Tyson as a baby . We all knew who was going to win both out comes of Bruno's fights
if you watch the retakes we all know . Money talks & it made a great difference after the true Cooper fights . You can think what you like but i know the money that is exchanged so please dont say if i know anything about boxing as i was at a lot of those fights waste of ticket money

EnjoyingTheSun
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 3389
Joined: Fri 16 Mar 2018 4:46 pm

Re: Well done Enry

  • Quote
  •   Message 7 of 7 in Discussion

Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

gates wrote: I never said every fight was fixed but both was with Listern we all know that .
The KO in the second fight was dubious but the first fight was on the level. Again can you not see that there is not enough money to be made in betting that would justify throwing away the HW title. The bookies aren't stupid, they wouldn't take the bets.
gates wrote: As for the rest well Norton knocked out Foreman
Nope Foreman knocked out Norton in two rounds
gates wrote: then the man witch was know to not have a punch knocked out a fit well bred fighter that after that was never seen again funny but if you were paid millions what would you do
Foreman was seen again, he came out of retirement and won the title again. OK how many millions would it take for you to throw away the richest prize in sport? Not only the future purses but the endorsements etc etc
gates wrote:
i had a grand on Bruno as i knew that Bugner would stand about as much chance with Tyson as a baby .
Neither had an earthly against Tyson, both were B level fighters at best.
gates wrote: Money talks & it made a great difference after the true Cooper fights .
I don't understand what you mean by the true Cooper fights? OK lets say Cooper actually beat Ali in the first fight, his next fight would be against Liston. But his manager wouldn't let him fight Liston for sensible reasons. Cooper ducked Patterson at his peak, no way was he going into the ring against Liston so to say it was only cuts that stopped him becoming HW champion isn't true. OK list Cooper's 5 best wins. And by best I would say fighters who were in the top 10 of the HW rankings at the time. Good luck with that.
gates wrote:
You can think what you like but i know the money that is exchanged so please dont say if i know anything about boxing
Fighters get some dubious decisions for sure and lesser fights have been fixed but can you not see that there is not enough money to make someone give up the HW title.
Yes your knowledge of boxing shines through

I liked Cooper and always cheered him on. Ditto Bruno. Ditto Henman at tennis but I was never delusional enough to think that it was only bad luck that stopped them having the measure of Marciano, Paterson, Liston, Ali, Tyson, Hollyfied, Sampras, Federer etc etc

Post Reply

Return to “EVENTS - Kibkom North Cyprus Forum”