IPC run out of cash 25% tax on property to fund GC payout

wanderer · Post by **wanderer** » Wed 18 Jun 2014 3:36 pm

Ankara has told the Turkish Cypriots it would no longer fund compensation for Greek Cypriot properties under the north’s immovable property commission (IPC) and that those people living in them would have to pay a 25 per cent tax over the value of the property, Turkish Cypriot daily Afrika reported on Wednesday.

According to Afrika, Ankara told the breakaway state it would stop funding the IPC, and the Turkish Cypriot side does not have the money to pay off Greek Cypriot applicants who want to sell their property in the north.

Afrika said the plan is now to impose a 25 per cent tax on those holding Greek Cypriot properties. The paper said contacts have already been held with the banks’ union so that those individuals who cannot pay could secure a loan with the cash going straight to the IPC. The Turkish ‘ambassador’ to the north is reportedly coordinating the initiative.

As of Wednesday, 5,899 applications from Greek Cypriots had been lodged with the IPC. Some 531 have been concluded through friendly settlements and 12 through formal hearing. The commission has paid out 161.3m sterling (€200m) in total to Greek Cypriots.

The IPC has ruled for exchange and compensation in two cases, for restitution in one case and for restitution and compensation in five cases. In one case it has delivered a decision for restitution after the settlement of Cyprus issue, and in one case it has ruled for partial restitution.

wanderer · Post by **wanderer** » Wed 18 Jun 2014 3:40 pm

Questions who sets the value of the property
What interest will the banks charge I bet it will be preferential rates

guru · Post by **guru** » Wed 18 Jun 2014 3:54 pm

Interesting... lots of questions....does this apply to new purchases only? Or those who already own and have their 'so called' 'guaranteed' 'TRNC' deeds already issued? Is it only for those properties that GC's have applied to the IPC for? Or EVERYONE who owns GC property? What about the difference between Esdeger and TMD land? Is the 25% full and final? Or will they come for more in the event of a settlement?

How to completely kill off an already ailing property market in the north in one fell swoop!!

Hector · Post by **Hector** » Wed 18 Jun 2014 10:08 pm

The devastating effects on the individual and the TRNC really doesn't bare thinking about. The TRNC government surely cannot afford to pay the compensation that the IPC awards and only 10% of cases have been dealt with. I can't see how 25% tax on property will be enough. If the IPC ceases to exist, does this mean that the ORAM's situation will start all over again?

Makum · Post by **Makum** » Thu 19 Jun 2014 6:40 am

Well the devil will no doubt be in the detail, and will probably drop firmly in the lap of foreign buyers. Another sign that Turkey is turning off the money tap and behind the scenes interference no doubt from the EU has twisted there arm.
Looks like if there is an agreement with the South in the near future the North is going to have to pay big style , and Turkey want to wash there hands of it,

13roman58 · Post by **13roman58** » Thu 19 Jun 2014 7:12 am

I have always had the opinion that anyone living in/on greek cyp property that there is a corresponding property in the south of much more value and the south refuse to acknowledge .
You can have your land back as long as I get the exchange land in the south hopefully with the Holiday Inn built on it.

Hector · Post by **Hector** » Thu 19 Jun 2014 7:56 am

Who 'owns' the land in the south which is the basis for the exchange land in the north? What mechanism is there for non GC land owners to sell their land in the south or be compensated for it if someone has taken it as per the IPC? If the TRNC government now 'owns' the land in the south as a result of giving GC land in the north in exchange, what has happened to that land, can that not be sold? What guarantee is there that this 25% tax will be the last?

frontalman · Post by **frontalman** » Thu 19 Jun 2014 11:54 am

You seem to be a bit confused about this, the word 'exchange' in regard to land is a fallacy. Esdeger land is not exchange land. The word esdeger, and forgive my lack of Turkish script, means equivalence. Former GC land in the North was given to those who had to leave land behind in the South and to war heroes or other deserving cases. The land was supposed to be equivalent to that left behind. Some were happy with the deal, some were not and are still hanging on in the hope they may get their land in the South back. I have a full and final kocan now and the esdeger reference is no longer included in the documentation. A TRNC title deed is now just that, there is no more reference to its origins.

Having said all that, if the reported scenario is being considered then Northern Cyprus might just as well lock the doors, shut up shop and throw away the key. Let's just hope it's not true!

Hector · Post by **Hector** » Thu 19 Jun 2014 1:22 pm

What was 'the deal' you refer to though? Were they just given land in the north? Surely they can't have their cake and eat it? Presumably the TRNC government must have got something in exchange?

Makum · Post by **Makum** » Thu 19 Jun 2014 2:58 pm

The exchange land scheme was never agreed to in the South, it was a means to give equivalent land in the North to Turkish Cypriots who lost land in the South, deeds for the land were exchanged for points which could be used to get Greek owned land from the TC Goverment which they allotted a points value, needless to say there were more fiddles going on than one would like to mention.
Land was also gifted to Turks in the goverments attempts to repopulate the north as many TCs were given dual nationality and decided to leave after 74.
If the Goverment is overwhelmed by GC claims no doubt some equation will have to be decided if a North / South agreement comes about. But if a referendum were to come about after this news can't see many TCs voting for it.

Hector · Post by **Hector** » Thu 19 Jun 2014 3:16 pm

It would be really useful and help to stop speculation and huge worry if the TRNC government just put out a statement giving the true position. Does that ever happen here?

WotNoDeeds · Post by **WotNoDeeds** » Fri 20 Jun 2014 6:37 am

The whole island north and south is poisonous , time to sell up and move on.

frontalman · Post by **frontalman** » Fri 20 Jun 2014 8:59 am

That would be a bit like passing the poisonous parcel.

Hector · Post by **Hector** » Fri 20 Jun 2014 9:42 am

"time to sell up and move on"

Just what will now happen to the property market? Who will buy a property on 'exchange' land with the strong possibility of a 25% tax or if the IPC ends, the ORAM's situation coming back? Oh how the south must be loving this.

frontalman · Post by **frontalman** » Sat 21 Jun 2014 6:58 am

It will be interesting to see if the BRS has anything to say about this.

Hector · Post by **Hector** » Sat 21 Jun 2014 8:51 am

It seems winning a case of London Pride is more important to the forum members than a 25% tax on your property. What message will that send out to the politicians?

Lovelife · Post by **Lovelife** » Sat 21 Jun 2014 11:32 am

How true Hector.

When I read this 'article' my immediate thought was where is the source of this information? and more importantly is it credible?

Reading another site (NCFP) this link was posted by someone

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... 7298,d.ZGU
The date is 2010!

I also see that Cyprus Today is carrying news on this subject, but I have yet to read it so cannot comment on its contents.
LL

Hector · Post by **Hector** » Sat 21 Jun 2014 5:20 pm

Cyprus Today headline 'No plans to tax ex GC property'

The TRNC government denies they have any such plans. Trouble is, that doesn't mean they wont be drawing them up if the money from Turkey for the IPC ceases.

The TRNC Finance Minister says ' TRNC government will continue to meet it's liability to pay the compensations under the IPC.' With whose money?

Turkish embassy says 'According to our information, there is no resources problem' Or they haven't yet been told officially?

The article goes on ' Nevertheless, a reliable source with knowledge of IPC matters told Cyprus Today that "as far as I can see, it is still a draft" and that the level of tax could be higher.

This does worry me as to what is going to happen and I can only wonder just what politics are behind all this.

guru · Post by **guru** » Sat 21 Jun 2014 6:12 pm

No smoke without fire.... something's cooking methinks.

IPMAN · Post by **IPMAN** » Sun 22 Jun 2014 7:47 am

25% of what value though? - surely it has to be the '74 value and not the current one?

Makum · Post by **Makum** » Sun 22 Jun 2014 11:54 am

Well according to the weekly rag CT, the Goverment denie this 25% tax so that confirms the storey is true as we all know what a bunch of lying bar stewards they are.

dippersgirl · Post by **dippersgirl** » Sun 22 Jun 2014 1:44 pm

I seem to remember, some years ago, our friend said, I just heard: " It's definite. All property bought by foreigners is now going to be classed as leasehold, 95 years, you won't get your Tapu, gloom and doom, gloom and doom............."
We were very concerned and rushed to our advokate and she said: "This will never happen it is not a law, it was just a suggestion by some minister and the law would have to be changed for this to happen...!!!"
She was right...!!!!

Any of this talk is only relevant if the island unites and I think it will be a long time, before that happens.................are Turkey putting al these huge sums of money into improvements of infastructures etc, etc just to let it go???

I'm not going to get my knickers in a twist, because of some article in some sensationalising newspaper.

It's not a case of putting my head in the sand, worrying does no good anyway.

Enjoy the sunshine!!!

come_on_aylin · Post by **come_on_aylin** » Sun 22 Jun 2014 3:33 pm

It seems winning a case of London Pride is more important to the forum members than a 25% tax on your property. What message will that send out to the politicians?

What does this have to do with anything - is it necessary to have a pop at other members? Is it likely that politicians read this forum or even care what is said here?

I'm with dippersgirl:

I'm not going to get my knickers in a twist, because of some article in some sensationalising newspaper.

It's not a case of putting my head in the sand, worrying does no good anyway.

Live and let live.

dippersgirl · Post by **dippersgirl** » Sun 22 Jun 2014 5:37 pm

Well said COA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Munchkin · Post by **Munchkin** » Sun 22 Jun 2014 7:12 pm

This 25% tax sounds like something the brainless half-wit Talat would come up with, he very nearly destroyed the property market some years ago with his foolish ideas.

The whole problem in the T.R.N.C is they have no-one in government with the brains or guts to tell the Greeks to eff off - to the victor go the spoils, the IPC should NEVER have been set up in the first place.

Remember there are LUNATICS RUNNING THE ASYLUM ignore them at your peril.

frontalman · Post by **frontalman** » Mon 23 Jun 2014 8:02 am

I don't agree with you Dippersgirl

"Any of this talk is only relevant if the island unites and I think it will be a long time, before that happens"

The way I read it is that the tax is needed so the IPC can continue its work now. When we received our final kocan early last year I was amazed to see that the land registry had written on the kocan that the estimated value of our 3 bed bungalow was 750,000 TL and this was before the slump in the Lira. I thought it might be a way of squeezing death duties out of my descendants, but now I'm not so sure. You can work out for yourself what 25% of that is.

Hector · Post by **Hector** » Mon 23 Jun 2014 9:45 am

It's not the first time politicians have 'run something up the flag pole to see who salutes it'.

I'm afraid to say that I'm not satisfied by the TRNC governments response. Do we know if the IPC has continuing funding?

Is there a response from the Turkish government?

dippersgirl · Post by **dippersgirl** » Mon 23 Jun 2014 10:39 am

I just had a look at our Tapu, as I had forgotten what value they gave it. Our solicitor held our property for us, until the excess land issue was sorted. The value did not change, when it was transferred into our name. This was some years ago. Nobody came to value the property. It was all done in the Tapu office. So this valuation seems to just go by where you live. And I have never really had a definitive answer, what value they go on - 1974? - 2000, when we bought? - 2009, when we actually got the Tapu in our name??

This is why I feel, every thing will take a very very long time, decision making does not come easy to Cypriots.
There just is no point in worrying about this issue until something definite is said.

At the moment the newspapers say more that anybody and I just can't believe them!!!!!!!!!

Hector · Post by **Hector** » Mon 23 Jun 2014 2:54 pm

Whilst I can understand the stance of 'no point worrying about this issue until something definite is said', I can't help but think that something has happened. We are just not sure exactly what is being actually considered or about to hit the fan.

I was about to put an offer in on a villa on exchange land but I've been put off. From what I have seen recently the property market is almost moribund (despite being assured by estate agents to the contrary) and before this latest rumour, quite what will happen now is anyones guess.

frontalman · Post by **frontalman** » Mon 23 Jun 2014 4:50 pm

You can have mine for 750,000TL plus 25% IPC of course!

Hector · Post by **Hector** » Mon 23 Jun 2014 8:54 pm

A bargain I'm sure!

Munchkin · Post by **Munchkin** » Tue 24 Jun 2014 10:11 am

Invest in Property in the TRNC ? you may as well tie a millstone around your neck, this tax will destroy what's left of property market in the North.

Hector · Post by **Hector** » Tue 24 Jun 2014 1:03 pm

It is very frustrating not knowing what the truth actually is. Has Turkey or the IPC actually confirmed that funding has not or is not going to be stopped?
A simple statement ought to have been made yet all is silent it appears.

guru · Post by **guru** » Wed 25 Jun 2014 10:19 am

I contacted my Solicitor about this (Naomi Mehmet) she replied;

"In relation to the IPC, I understand that the Government has confirmed that the reports in the Afrika newspaper are untrue and has stated that there are no proposals to pass any of costs or liability to pay any compensation on to the individual owners/occupiers. The deadline for applying to the IPC was due to expire at the end of December 2013, but was extended for further 2 years. In my opinion if the Government had, as claimed in the report, ‘run out of money’, it would not have extended the deadline."

dippersgirl · Post by **dippersgirl** » Wed 25 Jun 2014 1:33 pm

It seems then, that 'Afrika' is running out of money and needed to make a story that would sell copies!!!

Hector · Post by **Hector** » Wed 25 Jun 2014 2:45 pm

I'm afraid I don't buy it. 'I understand that the Government has confirmed..' is not a definite answer. She has probably read Cyprus Today like I have. Having no plans for something today doesn't mean I wont have in a month.

I ask again, what has the Turkish Government officially said in relation to stopping IPC funding? Has the IPC made an official statement? If only 10% of cases (500+) has cost 200 million euros with 5000+ cases (so far) still in the system, who will be funding the potential 2 billion+ euro costs?

guru · Post by **guru** » Wed 25 Jun 2014 3:18 pm

I don't disagree with you Hector, just quoting what she said!

wanderer · Post by **wanderer** » Wed 25 Jun 2014 8:34 pm

*Demopoulos & others v. Turkey

The verdict given by the European Court of Human Rights (Grand Chamber), March 1, 2010.

The applicants in Demopoulos v. Turkey, all Cypriot nationals of Greek Cypriot origin, claimed to own immovable property in the northern part of Cyprus. They complained mainly under Article 1 of Protocol 1 to the European Convention on Human Rights 2 (Convention) that they had been deprived of their property in northern Cyprus, which is under the control of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (TRNC). None of the applicants had made an application to the Immovable Property Commission (IPC) for restitution or compensation in respect of their property. The IPC, established pursuant to Law 67/2005 enacted by the TRNC Parliament, can examine and reach decisions on applications brought by all natural and legal persons claiming rights to immovable or movable property in northern Cyprus. 3 The Grand Chamber of the European Court of Human Rights held that (1) the IPC procedure may be regarded as part of the domestic remedies of Turkey, and (2) the IPC provides accessible and effective redress to Greek Cypriots for violations of their property rights. The Court accordingly rejected the present applications for non-exhaustion of domestic remedies.

Hector · Post by **Hector** » Thu 26 Jun 2014 5:53 pm

Interesting information Wanderer. Does it mean that Turkey will continue to fund the IPC though?

guru · Post by **guru** » Thu 26 Jun 2014 6:38 pm

It means Turkey will continue to pay the compo, but exactly how they choose to raise the funds with which to pay it is another matter! Look how much money was 'stolen' from people's bank accounts in the south to fund the EU bailout.

Hector · Post by **Hector** » Sun 29 Jun 2014 4:42 pm

I see that the subject has again appeared in yesterdays Cyprus Today but it's no clearer as to what is happening.

pc4854 · Post by **pc4854** » Sun 29 Jun 2014 5:40 pm

Think you have to remember that Turkey is actually buying chunks of GC land in the north and has in it's possession large chunks of TC land in the south. Soon they will own Cyprus. These talks about millions is all small fry, I still think of a pound being a pound and a million pounds being heaven but the world has moved on and money has devalued, they talk in billions and trillions now. At the end of the day, all Turkey are actually doing is increasing their share of Cyprus and the ROC must be really worried about this and the contrasting birthrates between the two communities.

Hector · Post by **Hector** » Tue 01 Jul 2014 7:58 pm

I suspect that Turkey is a very long way from 'owning Cyprus' although the proposition that they are quietly buying it bit by bit is an interesting one.

frontalman · Post by **frontalman** » Wed 02 Jul 2014 11:04 am

Can you please explain how Turkey is buying chunks of land in the South? I think you may have your wires crossed on this one.

pc4854 · Post by **pc4854** » Thu 03 Jul 2014 7:09 am

I didn't say Turkey was buying large chunks of land in the south. What I said was it has possession of large chunks of land in the south. This comes about as most Turkish Cypriots lodged their deeds to properties in the south against receiving new deeds issued in the north.
Therefore as TRNC/Turkey are holding those deeds, they in fact "own" large chunks of land in the south.

frontalman · Post by **frontalman** » Thu 03 Jul 2014 8:18 am

But the South do not recognize Turkey's 'ownership' or any other deals struck without their agreement.

pc4854 · Post by **pc4854** » Thu 03 Jul 2014 8:56 am

I guess that's what negotiating is all about but if you hold the deeds then eventually they will be transferred and then Turkey should own the land pertaining to those deeds. After all that's where the "exchange" land came into being.

Hector · Post by **Hector** » Thu 03 Jul 2014 7:58 pm

Is it not the TRNC who will hold the kocans of that land in the south?

frontalman · Post by **frontalman** » Fri 04 Jul 2014 1:49 pm

It's what's registered in the land registry in the South that they'll go by. They won't recognise any deal done by individuals and the authorities in North Cyprus or Turkey. So any discussion about Turkey's rights over land in the South is just conjecture.

Hector · Post by **Hector** » Fri 04 Jul 2014 3:11 pm

So does that mean that the original TC owner/descendent would be able to sell their land in the south to whoever they want despite having 'exchanged' it for land in the north?

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