make FREE electric from all year around Cyprus sunshine WOW

How to save energy and money in North Cyprus: Solar Panels, Wind Turbines - find out all you need to know about renewable energy.

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make FREE electric from all year around Cyprus sunshine WOW

Post by solarsolutionscyprus »

New pictures from yet another high quality installation of a Solar Electric System .
On this installation the customer wanted four 230 watt solar panels making a max peak production of over 900 watts. Enough to run most electrical items within the house during the day (washing machine, fridge, freezer, tv, radio, water cooler etc ) giving savings on the electric bill of approx €100 per bill.
this then gives a payback for the installation of around 4 years.

THE FUTURE IS BRIGHT

THE FUTURE IS SOLAR

TEL 23102312 OR 96523072

EMAIL [email protected]

WEB SITE http://www.solarsolutionscyprus.co.uk

FB PAGE https://www.facebook.com/SolarSolutions ... ref=stream

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Re: make FREE electric from all year around Cyprus sunshine

Post by Col »

Getting a bit worried now, for some reason all my appliances seem to be using more than the 900w quoted here!

In the U.K (o.k. not as sunny we know) but my panels produce max 3.4kwh and I am working on the figures that if they save me £200 in electricity in the year I would be doing well. The feed in tariff being the factor that makes it worthwhile. Where the 100 euro saving comes from heaven knows!

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Re: make FREE electric from all year around Cyprus sunshine

Post by solarsolutionscyprus »

Col wrote:Getting a bit worried now, for some reason all my appliances seem to be using more than the 900w quoted here!

In the U.K (o.k. not as sunny we know) but my panels produce max 3.4kwh and I am working on the figures that if they save me £200 in electricity in the year I would be doing well. The feed in tariff being the factor that makes it worthwhile. Where the 100 euro saving comes from heaven knows!
ALL YOUR APPLIANCES USE MORE THAN 900 WATTS HOW DO YOU WORK THAT OUT , i think you need to look again even your washing machine runs at 300-600 watts (not on heat cycle) in the average home during day consumption on white goods is less than 900 watts

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Re: make FREE electric from all year around Cyprus sunshine

Post by Owl Lady »

Ok I ask again, where was the all year round Cyprus sun today????

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Re: make FREE electric from all year around Cyprus sunshine

Post by Col »

The claim was "Enough to run most electrical items within the house during the day (washing machine, fridge, freezer, tv, radio, water cooler etc ) giving savings on the electric bill of approx €100 per bill."

I am a supporter of solar but believe that the facts should be accurate for people to make an informed decision.

You are right, my appliances do not use 900w so long as I do not switch them on. First of all a 900w system will not produce 900w all day, only at it's peak so a day like today what will it be producing? Let us say it does well on average and produces 600w average. Now my usage My fridge and freezer are on all the time cutting in and out at using approx 250w, I have a small heated towel rail on in the winter 100w. My laptop is plugged in and charging 90w already not much left of the 600w average! It might surprise you but I do have the heat cycle on when using the washing machine 3000w. Sometimes I have a cup of tea whilst waiting for the washer 2200w. I put the dishwasher on 1050w, do the ironing 1800w use the microwave 800w. Listen to the radio. Charge my phone. Items on stand by. Dry my hair etc.

Then there is the opposite, which is most of the time, just about everything off except fridge freezer so even the majority of the 600-900w is not being used. That brings us to the main issue of solar in the TRNC, without a feed in tariff you need to store. If you store it brings extra costs and a loss in efficiency!

Now at home in the u.k. I do try as much as possible to maximise the power that I am generating (3.29kwp) by switching the washing machine on at a different time to the dishwasher but try as I do I am lucky to knock £200 off my bill, indeed if I could make the savings you claim (o.k. we are in the u.k but my system is more than 4 times the size of the 4 panel system) I would not have a bill at all as my annual bill is only £700. It would not be a goer if we did not have the feed in tariff.

Perhaps you could show us you calculations that substantiate the 100 euro a month saving making the payback period only 4 years,

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Re: make FREE electric from all year around Cyprus sunshine

Post by solarsolutionscyprus »

HI

FREE electric through solar panels is not for everyone, Solar is massive in the UK and its cloudy most of the time, and you say its not good for Cyprus. i not wasting my time as your not interested in solar so please stop the negative comments please on my posts

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Re: make FREE electric from all year around Cyprus sunshine

Post by Col »

Sorry if you think the comments are negative. You have misinterpreted my postings. I am not saying it is not good for Cyprus, I am saying that the decision making is more difficult to work out whether it is beneficial overall.

Yes solar is big in the U.K. Unlike the TRNC there is a feed in tariff, I have solar in the u.k. because I get nearly 50p for every unit of electricity I produce, anything I can use myself is a bonus.

I am very interested in solar, which is why I have it fitted. It may not be my place but I do get worried that people might be investing money in solar based on exaggerated claims rather than other reasons. So please do not consider it a waste of time, I would still be interested in your calculations on the 100 euro a month saving and the payback period of 4 years. I would then be quite prepared to apologise for my what appears to be negativity.

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Re: make FREE electric from all year around Cyprus sunshine

Post by owl »

I am with Col here.
He is not making negative comments, he is asking for the detailed reality of Solar efficiency.
It took me 3 years of research before I went 'Solar'. Many of the headline claims were wildly optimistic, usually inferring the 'cheapest available'!
Most of us know the 'cheapest' is often, eventually, the 'most' expensive.

Cyprus is obviously an ideal location for Solar efficiency, even without feed-in tariffs, but only with the highest quality equipment with a genuinely long life expectancy.

I am convinced many could make serious long term savings, but they need the right advice, not purely a 'catchy' sales approach.

Perhaps a thread for 'Solar Advice' from those with experience from the customers angle may be useful.

I would be happy to give advice,.... Col? What do you think?

This may be a useful guide to Solar efficiency for where you live, UK or Cyprus etc.:

http://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvgis/apps4/pvest.php

Scroll the map for your location.

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Re: make FREE electric from all year around Cyprus sunshine

Post by £eagle »

I too am interested in solar, if the economics are right.
As I posted elsewhere a typical 15% efficient solar panel cannot produce more than 300kw/h/m2 of power per year. A normal static panel, which will get dusty from time to time, will produce less. Unless there is some form of power storage then surplus production during the day, especially in the summer, will be lost and of no value. During the day maybe the only things running are the fridge and the pool pump for a few hours. A great deal of the power actually produced is, therefore, likely to be wasted. My fag packet calculation gives 4 solar tracking panels the capacity to produce a maximum of 1800 kw/h per year, most of which comes during the day in the summer, obviously. Static and occasionally dirty panels, allowing also for some power wastage, may produce say 50% of this - 900 units per year - as valuable consumed power. This is worth about 360TL = 150€ per year. The pay back period for a €2500 system is therefore about 16 years. If any of my data are wrong, please correct me.

Maybe the economics, on which Solarsolutions are basing their offers, are different on the other side of the Island.

If someone guaranteed me a payback period of 4 years on a PV system I would be likely to join the queue to buy.

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Re: make FREE electric from all year around Cyprus sunshine

Post by Col »

Thanks for that Owl, checking the irradiation level was next on the list. Yes an advice thread would be a good idea. Whilst I know that because the time we spend in North Cyprus solar would not benefit me ( with the exception of perhaps solar pump for pool) there are many that would be interested in the economics. Whilst still being unsure on the economics overall of solar I do respect that, judging on your comments you have a system that takes as full an advantage as possible of solar.

Are you still connected to the mains and if so how does that affect things. Again if yes do have a system to take the power surges out.

Eagle, yes I think there would be a long queue. The system quoted however for the 4 year pay back actually costs 4,800 euro according to the posting so on the calculations ( which I believe to be a lot closer to actual) it would be 30 years. The only thing that needs to be allowed for is the rise in the cost of electricity. However I think if you had the money in the bank and compounded it you would be much better off.

As you say without energy storage or the ability to use all that is generated solar does not stack up in North Cyprus.
We have 2 fridge freezers and a seperate freezer running off our mains supply and according to our Owl monitor we tick over between 350w to 750w. I would think most houses tick over less than us and try as we might I cannot get full use out of what we generate. The solar companies in the U.K. when selling you a system all tend to work on the same figures supplied which for a 4kwp system is £127 to £160 per year (http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/Gen ... Calculator). I think we do a bit better than that as we have the extra fridge freezers running and also a 100w towel rail during the day but still would be happy if we got up to £175 savings in a year. This figure would not vary by very much in North Cyprus apart from there is the potential for bigger savings in the TRNC if you manage to run a pool pump on a pool for part of the day, you do have to consider though that if you are running other items at the same time taking you to or over the amount you are generating then there would be no extra saving for that period.

There are quite a few papers being written at the moment on ways to calculate costs per kwh taking into consideration the storage (batteries) costs over a 25 year period.
http://www.solarenergystorage.org/en/wa ... aftlich-2/
Makes interesting reading, I believe as stated in the paper that the storage costs will come down as the technology and volume increases. The whole package needs to be calculated in including life span of batteries, always a difficult one.

We have been tempted to get an electric car to utilise our excess solar power but I do not have enough confidence in battery technology, to replace a battery set in a car is reported to be £6000 to £7000.
Last edited by Col on Sat 09 Nov 2013 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: make FREE electric from all year around Cyprus sunshine

Post by Col »

edit to go ( exceeded character limit) in on the discussion of pool pump.

Then there is the problem of making sure that the pump is on at a time when other items are not which can be done but at expense. We have looked into the same for diverting the excess power to the immersion heater but it would cost in the region of £1000 for the gear to do it. Did not bother.

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Re: make FREE electric from all year around Cyprus sunshine

Post by owl »

Col

I am fully off-grid. No more Kibtek meter or connection, Hurray! Inverters/controllers ensure no spikes or interruptions.

Solar DC pool pumps are a good idea as pools can be 20-25% of your total usage, most are designed to use about 750w (free) compared to 1500w with a mains pump. Good for power savings during winter or absense.
The problem there is that most Solar pool pumps do not come with a timer,... sun comes up, pump starts and runs continuously till sun goes down, keeping pool cleaner and potentially reducing pool maintenance costs. That's fine for a standalone system, but if fed from a house Solar system, that's 750W continuous from your daytime total. DC pumps are usually mounted in tandem with the existing mains pump which is still used for cleaning/backwashing.
Doesn't leave you a lot spare from a small house system!

A professional Solar installer will be able to visit and check your power usage requirements and design/cost a system around you.

Adverts for "Solar from only £xxxx,.. Save £xxxx" are very misleading. They may as well be saying "We will sell you a brand new car for £5000,....".

What would you get,... a motorised rickshaw???

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Re: make FREE electric from all year around Cyprus sunshine

Post by Col »

Owl, I assume it is possible to be on grid as well if you have solar. If there is no storage what would happen to the power you produce, would it go back into the grid as in the uk.

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Re: make FREE electric from all year around Cyprus sunshine

Post by solarsolutionscyprus »

thanks for the interest i can answer any questions in the shop or via email or telephone my details are below

stewart tel 96523072

shop 23102312

email [email protected]

thanks or please call into the shop for a chat and a coffee

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Re: make FREE electric from all year around Cyprus sunshine

Post by £eagle »

Stewart, I think that there are many people interested in this discussion and the various points raised by Owl, Col and myself. Rather than just having a private chat over of cup of tea in your shop, you can use the power of this forum to persuade us of the economic merits of PV power in Cyprus. Whilst environmental issues are also important alas it is the bank account that speaks the loudest.

I suppose the question to be answered is:

Can you explain how you might guarantee that the value, at Kibtek prices - of PV power consumed by me over 4 years (note just the amount produced) will be not greater than the initial cost of the installation? How would you design a system to provide for an annual consumption of, say, 6000kw/h?

I think that it is true to say that without the wholehearted support of the TRNC government and Kibtek, PV power here will be difficult to make cost effective. How can these institutions be mobilised? has anyone any ideas?

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Re: make FREE electric from all year around Cyprus sunshine

Post by Col »

Eagle,
Owl put a link up in another thread http://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvgis/apps4/pvest.php to work out what would be produced which, based on what I produce in the U.K. to be accurate. We can all then do the maths using current electricity costings to see how much is saved. The site gives the overall figure that will be produced, without storage of course what actually gets used is another matter.

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Re: make FREE electric from all year around Cyprus sunshine

Post by owl »

Col

If you have solar, without storage, and are on grid any unused power will potentially be returned to 'grid'.

AFAIK, Kibtek do not have any scheme for grid feed-back or credit. I believe some have earlier Kibtek meters which are capable of running in 'reverse'. According to Kibtek this is illegal and may result in fines, prosecution or disconnection. neither do I beleive there are any 'Grants' available for solar installations. Recent 'digital' meters being installed by Kibtek do not allow for 'reverse' running.

Some new 'Cheap' suppliers have indicated 'feedback' and 'grants' are available. I would suggest anyone check with Kibtek before parting with a penny!
The only grants I have heard of are Government inducements for major investors in such as large Hotel developments.

Regarding forward savings, many are on 'Builders' supply which is roughly 3 times the standard cost of electricity, this makes the return on investment far,.. far greater than compared to 'standard' Kibtek costs.
Many of those on 'Builders' have little prospect of 'standard' Kibtek connection due to Builders disappearing or not paying taxes or ongoing problems with Parcelisation/Amalgamation/Green file Approval/etc. If resolved, they often are faced with a massive bill from Kibtek to install 'stardard' supply, often being told their existing cabling does not comply with the latest regulations for 'Earthquake' compliance etc.
I know of many who have been on 'Builders' for over 8 years with no sign of 'Standard' in the foreseeable future, unless at great cost.

In those situations, solar make a lot of sense!

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Re: make FREE electric from all year around Cyprus sunshine

Post by kibsolar1999 »

yes.. when does solar power makes sense?...
a four year payback is.. ambitious. And not fair , as interest rates in a "reliable bank" (if something like this exsits) are .. 3%? which just covers the inflation.
Plus, you give your money away and you are in need to hope that you ever see it again.
In Cyprus, a PV installation of one kWp will produce approx 1450-1650 kWh per year NET (fixed installation, south, good designed, not all equipment).
Every year this installation will decrease its output a bit.. and here we come to quality and design, that this fraction will be as small as possible.
Despite of this, and taking maintenance (replacement) costs in consideration, these systems will work for 30 years and longer.
Theoretical (grid feed) and quick calculated, one kWp will produce therefore approx 40.000 kWh during its 30 year lifetime.
At 50 kurus per unit, this comes to, 10 years: 2500 euro, 20 years 5000 and 30 years 7500 euro.
At 50 kurus per unit + 5% electricity price increase per year, it would be 4200, 10.000 and 19.000 Euro respectively.
You do not believe it?
For a discussion on energy saving i just visited my old files.. in 2006-7 we payed 10 eurocent.. 27 kurus, incl taxes. doubled in 8 years= 8% increase.
So, IF i would offer you now a system for, say 2000 euro per kWp with best equipment,.. you are at 5 years, say 6...
with storage you are at 10 years (approx) . and "somewhere in the middle" we change the system to "grid" (which hopefully is legal by then)
See my other posts as well

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Re: make FREE electric from all year around Cyprus sunshine

Post by Col »

Thanks Kibsolar,

We seem to be getting closer to what might be the actual case. I believe 4 years to be more than ambitious more like impossible! Before looking at the figures in detail you need to be looking at what will actually get used from what you produce if no storage involved. So ironically you will use a bigger percentage of a smaller system than a larger system. But i suggest that you would never use all the power produced and so must adjust the figures accordingly. Granted we do not know what will happen to energy prices but I am sure they will not go down.

Assuming he 2000 euro per kwp includes storage you would also have to build in losses for putting it into and taking it out of batteries. Also a realistic cost for maintenance and renewal. if it does not include storage the figures would need to dropped considerably to reflect a more accurate usage of what is produced.

Yes we also do not know what will happen to banks, 3% for totally safe would be a good guide and 9% at HSBC in TL account where exchange rates also could play a part ( either up or down).

The other consideration is the length of time you will be at the property and whether the system gets a better price for the house or whether it is considered not so attractive.

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Re: make FREE electric from all year around Cyprus sunshine

Post by kibsolar1999 »

Col,
I spend a lot of time with my potential customers to find the best type and "optimised size" of a system, adjusted to their budged, of course.
ecofree mentioned "from 3350 STG (= 4000 euro) for a 10kWh system"
10x365days = 3650 / approx 1500 kWh per kWp = (does he mean) a 2,4 kWp system (?)
= 1675 euro + VAT i guess and no equipment is mentioned nor whether "fully fitted".
No storage. 2000 was just a guideline.
Of course, with "no credited grid feed" possibility this system is quite useless and make only sense (although illegal) when the permanent minimum load is always higher as solar production.
That implicates that you still have to pay "an electricity bill", but less. Power cuts are not calculated.. another problem why North cyprus never will find any "investors" for big systems if KIBTEK can not grant a reliable network.
Grid supplemented storage systems are very dynamic and difficult to calculate. I want to see the one who can make calculations which are "accurate to the kWh".
thats theoretical stuff and needs very disciplined customers.
Concerning the discharge-charge losses: go for a good system, otherwise you have more losses as you supplier will tell you (or knows about).
I have seen "offers" and "calculations" from competitors.. max max max... no losses.. unbelievable..
And.. in those cheap or "low cost" systems it might even happen that your "energy- savings" become negative!, because your system will switch too often to the grid and will charge your batteries. And/or solar power is not sufficient to eliminate even the losses.
For customers who are not often in Cyprus, we suggest solar pool pumping.

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Re: make FREE electric from all year around Cyprus sunshine

Post by owl »

Col

I think you are getting hung up on the subject of 'costs' within a solar system.

If your system has been professionally designed to meet you load requirements, there is no 'internal' cost factor, merely a calculation of your ROI in comparison to existing and future 'Mains' costs.

With storage back-up there are obviously consumptions between panels and charger/Controller. Then between charger/Controller and batteries. Then batteries to Inverter before your usable consumption in A/C.

Without storage there is consumption of a controller and Inverter before 'useable' power.

In both instances, systems should be designed around required useable power.

It's a bit like saying a car would do 80mpg if only it wasn't for the gearbox and driveshafts. I don't hear people saying they wont buy a car because it's gearbox takes 25mpg off the available engine power.

All systems have internal consumption before useable power. With solar, that comparison can only be overall costed against supplied electricity costs, present and future.

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Re: make FREE electric from all year around Cyprus sunshine

Post by Col »

"It's a bit like saying a car would do 80mpg if only it wasn't for the gearbox and driveshafts. I don't hear people saying they wont buy a car because it's gearbox takes 25mpg off the available engine power. "

Perhaps I did not explain myself very well Owl. Using the above analogy is fine, my point is that when you buy the car it will give you the net miles per gallon i.e. 65mpg.

The most important figure when considering solar is what will it save me ( my ROI), not what will it produce. Therefore it is fine to do a calculation of what a system would produce then multiply it by the cost of a unit of electricity. This works well in the uk because we get paid for what we produce but try as I might I only actually use about £160 to £200 (about 1600 units) worth of the electric produced a year therefor that is the maximum I would be saving. (baring in mind it is a 3.4kwp net system with no storage).

The calculation if storage is involved as discussed before would be based on what could be delivered and used from the batteries, this would again be different to what is produced. Also a price per unit for replacement of the storage system would need to be factored in

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Re: make FREE electric from all year around Cyprus sunshine

Post by Col »

Or to use the same analogy, this car gives you 100 miles of free driving (@50mpg) when fuel costs £7 a gallon which is equal to a saving of 2x7 £14. Trouble is I only drive 25 miles during the day equals actual saving of £3.50.

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Re: make FREE electric from all year around Cyprus sunshine

Post by solarsolutionscyprus »

FEEDBACK from a customer who had a four panel system fit in the summer


Steve Barrett

And the latest bill is here. €195.29 as opposed to €367.63 for the same period last year. kWh usage this year 788 against 1244kWh last year. That's €300 saved in 4 months, or less than 3 year payback for the system.

Unlike · · 27 November at 13:04

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Re: make FREE electric from all year around Cyprus sunshine

Post by kibsolar1999 »

300 euro savings... i dont know your prices in the south...
but here 300 Euro represent the savings for 10-12 month, not 4 month.
Must be a "chinese wonder system", the newest of the new.
ahh.. kWh usage this year 788 against 1244kWh
So, 456 kWh in 4 month = cost 300 euro?, per kWh 66 eurocent is that right?
or in one month? = a wonder wonder wonder system.
Before you post, you may prove what your customers say...

Anyway.. i find it "strange" that you still advertise.. especially on-grid system which are illegal to install in the north.
Must be because you are not "the least afraid" of the North cypriot authorities.
But be sure, they are not only "after bailiffs" who want to deliver court orders.

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Re: make FREE electric from all year around Cyprus sunshine

Post by Col »

Solarsolutions!

You have not showed us what the panels have saved, only what the difference in what the bill is!
what months of bill are you looking at, you would need to do the whole year to make a true comparison.

Have you fitted a meter anywhere on a 900w system to see what it produces in a year?
A 4 panel system 900w would only produce 1420kwh in a year in Cyprus. Please disagree if you think this is not right. Then please tell me what percentage of the figure you think you will be able to use because it is impossible to use it all unless you are able to have appliances on all day. Then multiply the figure by the cost of electricity then post your calculation here.

Here is my calculation based on being able to use 75% (very generous)

1420kwh yearly production assumption that you can use 75% of what is produced 1065 units. 1065x0.5tl (generous again) =532tl. 532 divided by 2.77 = 192 euro for the year. Even if you allow for being able to use all what you produce it would still only be 256 euro.

Please explain

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Re: make FREE electric from all year around Cyprus sunshine

Post by kibsolar1999 »

Col,
when it comes "to terms", it seems you never get answer from solarsolutions, except an invitation for a coffee.
When i read statements like "....supplying this home with nearly 1KW of constant power throughout the day...."
.... this has nothing to do with reality.

Out of a 860- 920Wp system, with low efficient chinese low cost microinverters and a bad cable connection, you will not produce more then 1200 to 1250kWh in a year.
As the electricity bill will be cut from the top (not in all cases, of course), I calculated generously with 0,65 TL.
Comes to 285 euros per year @ 100% usage.
2500 euro for 860Wp = 8,8 years payback and 11,5 years @ 75% usage.
On top (= 2900 euro for 1kWp) this system is not very...what was the term? ... competative on price.

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Re: make FREE electric from all year around Cyprus sunshine

Post by solarsolutionscyprus »

As I said I not getting into a childish debate with another company. I am sure you sell great products and if customers on the forum would like another option they can contact our company. We will be opening soon a large showroom in the North and offering Solar products at competitive prices. ( just like Kibsolar).
Please don't be scared of competition because as you say Kibsolar offers better products at a better price and better warrenty ?

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Re: make FREE electric from all year around Cyprus sunshine

Post by Col »

I am not another company Solarsolutions! You are making claims and I was asking you to back the claims up. Sorry if you consider this childish.

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Re: make FREE electric from all year around Cyprus sunshine

Post by PoshinDevon »

This topic has now been locked for the following reasons:-

1. Companies or businesses who continually openly advertise is against the forum rules. If you wish to advertise your company or business you are expected to offer a donation or take out an advert on the main forum front page. The purpose of the donation is to aid the upkeep of this site plus provide a charitable donation. In the past a one off advert has been allowed to pass thro, however recently a number of businesses and companies have placed repeated detailed adverts - this is no being monitored.

2. The thread is slowly turning into an on line argument and is going off topic. Should you wish to discuss further please pm each other off the board.

3. The thread in my opinion has run its course, lots of useful information but nothing new recently added.
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