illegal solar installs

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illegal solar installs

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Post by eco free electric »

if you are considering a solar system please make sure that it is being installed with all the permissions from kib-tek and the inline with the Government legal document with all the correct submissions and with the equipment as described in the document,and installed with a member of the electrical union
Because if it is not and you get a visit from kib-tek they will remove the system as it is illegal

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Re: illegal solar installs

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Post by tomsteel »

If a solar system is installed which does not interfere/affect Kibtec supply/equipment, how can Kibtec 'legally' remove it? Surely, even in the TRNC, only a court can order such a ruling or do the utility companies here have such power?

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Re: illegal solar installs

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Post by eco free electric »

Hi Tom
if you speak to kib-tek they even the power over full off grid systems and it is specified in the government document so is worth a look

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Re: illegal solar installs

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Post by solarmartin7591 »

i wonder when we have a Kib Tek power cut and we put our generators on
if that is illegal as well because we did not buy them from a shop belonging
to a member of the union

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Re: illegal solar installs

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Post by owl »

I did a full check before going fully Off-Grid.

Kibtek have no control over any alternative forms of energy you use. The only involvement they would like is to be able to inspect with their own 'Union' electricians and CHARGE you for proof you are not interfering with their supply.

Likewise, legal or planning issues. Obviously a number of 'Government' Departments would 'like' you to apply to them with your plans. CHARGES and Legal Costs would obviously appear out of the woodwork, as well as probably delaying your installation for a year or two!

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Re: illegal solar installs

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Post by eco free electric »

owl
i think you need to check with kib-tek i have had top level meetings with them and they tell me that it is illegal to generate electricity here unless you have permission from them

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Re: illegal solar installs

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Post by owl »

ecofree

I had checked with Kibtek!

Sorry but you have obviously been ill advised by whoever you spoke to at Kibtek!

Whether you install Solar PV, or wind turbine, generator, hydro, battery operated kit or a donkey on a treadmill,..
Kibtek may get grumpy, but they do not have any legal powers to stop you unless you technically interfere with their supply!

As I said, if you ask them,... sure they will tell you to get them to inspect your plans or installation,...

and CHARGE you! The higher levels of 'admin' you speak to,.. the higher the charges!

I am fully off-grid so now have no connection to Kibtek. Please don't tell me Kibtek could try charging me for NOT having an account with them!

Having no Kibtek supply is common out here, anyone been charged by Kibtek?..... No.

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Re: illegal solar installs

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Post by eco free electric »

owl
i did not say you would be charges i think you need to read the latest Government Document which starts with a paragraph that states any renewable energy system installed in trnc must obtain permission from the energy ministry off grid or on grid

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Re: illegal solar installs

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Post by bargainboozeandwines »

Time i put in planning permission for my solar back pack and solar phone charger,im getting a bit worried by all this !
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Re: illegal solar installs

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Post by owl »

"Don't Panic Capn Mainwaring"

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Re: illegal solar installs

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Post by journey1 »

Its all a bit 'sad' that we have to endure, seek advice' , and be hopeful that 'we are 'compliant' - is it me or are we an ethnic minority without rights, voice or support on a wee part of an island that most of us love and enjoy?

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Post by kbasat »

@journey1, I dont understand your posting. If I were to go and live in the UK, what kind of right would I enjoy that you do not have here?

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Re: illegal solar installs

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Post by kibsolar1999 »

Beginning 2013, we finally got our “Renewable energy (RE) law” which illegalized something which was illegal anyway, feeding the net and that you would be disconnected if you do so, plus fine.. and that you need an certificate for RE installations.
Actually …booze.. is right, because the law says: every RE system installed, “electrical” was not mentioned, so you have to apply for your solar water heater and wood burning stove as well.
On top, we got some funny and often misleading regulations about “the application and connection of RE system”, now “valid” is the 3rd draft.
It says, every private person who wants to install an RE system, needs a “RE testimonial”. house owners name, not the installing company), address, RE system (funny specs given), electrically approved by Chamber of electrical engeneers, approved also from kibtek and then applied for at the energy ministry and granted by a committee (to be founded) and finally installed (from whom.. and what certifications they need.. see below..this is just changing… again). After that, approved site acceptance and connection (also changing right now) of a “return meter” (Net metering). Also “the way” of the new accountancy introduced by Kibtek (for net metering) was given (and had been changed).
(for commercial installations all is a bit different and even worse)
To date, at the energy ministry there are no application forms available, no committee founded and therefore not a single permission was given. Kibtek has no Net-meters in stock, no new accountant system is introduced. But, without Netmetering the installation of an on-grid system is “economic difficult” to calculate Nobody wants to feed back (in times of no need of the solar-wind-bio-??- power) into the grid for a loss and solar companies calculate to "their advantage".
Solar companies (from which the gov takes taxes since up to 15 years), incl some “bigger guys” (eg the electric contractors which want to take their chances (and are often "newies"), of which one is our partner for future projects) are permanently in contact with officials (ministry, Kibtek… ) about the ongoings and eg the fact that an installer also needs (draft 2) a “RE- permit for installers”.
If any solar company can prove better as what we say, please hand in depersonalised document of a permission as jpg.
Nevertheless solar companies advertised that they have all needed permissions (and superb contacts), promising the customer the in the regulation announced 25% substitution (which are history already). Some of them even installed PV panels in front of their offices with a grid inverter inside the showroom. All illegal and obviously NOT disconnected by Kibtek.
As an “approx guessing” we would say that in 2013 alone 30 to 40 on-grid systems (between 2 and 40kWp) have been installed and in total 250kW(incl 50 projects off grid, hpybrid, solar pumping) . Plus, the 60 announced projects from ecofree. Kibtek already has a lot to do.

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Re: illegal solar installs

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Post by Heaven »

Do I have to apply to use my torch at night time to see along our road only our street lights go off as you walk up to them - think they have been wired the wrong way!!! I don't want my torch confiscated

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Re: illegal solar installs

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Post by nigelh »

Hi "owl",
ref your post yesterday, when you went fully "off grid", did Kibtek remove your meter and connection to their grid?
If so, they obviously agreed with doing it and, by inference, that you were going to generate your own power.
Seems to me that what you have done is quite "legal" !!
Nigel
p.s. still waiting to hear when my system will be installed, this week - will let you know when it happens!

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Post by owl »

nigelh

Meter removed, final bill paid. Not a query from anyone. Friends have had 'on-grid' installed, again not a query or suggestion of it having to be 'legally Approved'.

Has your solar installer asked you to apply for all the suggested permissions and submissions as well as having the installation overseen by a member of the Electrical Union?

If so, what is the process they have 'guided' you through?

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Re: illegal solar installs

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Post by nigelh »

Hi owl,
that's good news.
My solar installer has applied for the necessary permissions and the 25% installation grant on my behalf and, so far, I haven't had to sign anything - maybe all (?) will become a bit clearer when the system is installed although I do understand that the government (or is it EU ?) grant does take a while to come through.
I am not sure about the union membership of the person who will do the actual installation - haven't seen them yet!

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Re: illegal solar installs

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Post by eco free electric »

Good news the govenment has pass the new document that they will pay you for generating your own electric and will credit it off the following months bill so you only now need battery back up if you want to overcome power cuts

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Re: illegal solar installs

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Post by kibsolar1999 »

As you may have seen.. we already mentioned "changes" in our previous post...
- nobody will pay you anything.... eg, no 25% substitution is offered.
- only net-metering is permitted and excess produced you can use "next month", but "credit kWh" you never can turn into money
- it always only accouts for "one month", not one year. meaning: if you use "net" 10 kWh in one month, you have to pay for immediately....although you may produce 100 kWh excess next month.
Very important for the use of AC or pool pumps in summer.. you may still have to pay for them.
Meaning, the correct sizing of the PV plant still is important, otherwise you have 5000 credits after 2 years, which you never can use. also: credits will be deleted one day (we have to confirm).
Please be aware that also the installation size (in kWp) is limited, so "going off grid" with a solar pool pump might be also necessary (and because of the mentioned net meter practice)
- installation could be done "by everybody".. ok, some regulations, no prob
- final site acceptance will be done by KIBTEK, incl installation of the net-meters.
(we became "installation slaves only" )
Still remains: no place where a home owner (not installing company) could hand in an application, no commitee founded, no net meters in stock.
So, nothing changed (in result), yet.
Also, the problem for all homes without a "legal status" remains, because you have to hand in "proper documents" if you want to apply for a RE system.

A battery back-up is a serious installation and configure them to a "grid supplemeted " or "selfconsumption" system may make, under the above mentioned circumstances, still sense.

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Re: illegal solar installs

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Post by CatalkoyChris »

Would be interested to know a rough price of how much it cost to go fully off grid from nigelh and owl. PM me if you wish to do so.

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Re: illegal solar installs

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Post by owl »

Good discussion.

We are now clearer on many points.

1: There is no Legal requirement to get permission from the Government or Kibtek for ANY form of alternative energy if it does not intefere with Kibtek's supply.
2: Kibtek will NOT pay you for any excess power returned to the grid. They may give you a month by month credit off your next bill. 'Use it or Lose it'! Usage limits may also apply.
3: You will only get such credits if you have Kibtek install a 'net-meter' (which they may not have in stock). They will charge you for such a meter and it's installation. Such charges being unknown and maybe subject to a further charge from Kibtek for the inspection/approval of your system by their own/preferred electrician.
4: Battery 'back-ups' are still the best approach for long term savings and avoidance of further increases in bills. it seems battery systems will be even more effective at controlling your future costs bearing in mind the recent large price increases and almost certain future increases. Kibtek have no control over anyone who wishes to disconnect from their supply as long as the final bill is paid.
5: The only way to get any payment for using alternative energy is possibly by any Grant available, as suggested by EcoFreeElectric in earlier adverts.

EcoFreeElectric, can you give any details of such Grants you have been mentioning?

Thanks in advance.

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Re: illegal solar installs

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Post by owl »

CatalkoyChris

That's what everyone want's to know.

It's a bit like asking how much is a car or home, it depends on what you personally need.

Best approach is to sit down and work out how much energy you use. Just looking at your leccy bills won't help.
Jot down everything you use in day & nightime, summer & winter. Lights/TV etc/oven/aircons/heaters/pool/Imm htr/washer/fridge/ etc,.. everything!
Once you have a rough idea of how many KwH you use day & night, you have the basis of your own needs. Also consider if you have enough roughly S facing roof or ground for panels.

Then speak to an installer such as Kibsolar or EcoFree for a quote. Get them to survey. Compare them and take on board any suggestions they have. Ask them for referrals for existing customers and try to meet these customers for feedback.

Very roughly, for fully off-grid, you could be looking at spending £5000 for a 'frugal' 2 bed property without pool or aircons, or £30,000 for a 4 bed vills with 5 aircons and large pool.

You could then look at those 'one-off' costs (over a min 10-15yr) against your current and (good luck!) future 'mains' bills.

feel free to pm me if you want any further info.
owl

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Re: illegal solar installs

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Post by kibsolar1999 »

Dear owl,
In general, we need a permission for all of our electric installations in our homes. The installation of a socket in a bathroom, the installation of too many AC units is not permitted, the height of light switches are regulated. You need to have an electric plan and after that, you will be KIBTEK connected. (as long you have a title deed, also mandatory for a “proper” connection, and all fees are payed)
You cannot expect that KIBTEK writes in a regulation that you can do what you want, as long you do not interfere with their supply.
We may summarise your interpretations as:
The TRNC is not a country without laws, it has difficulties to implement these laws (and regulations)

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Re: illegal solar installs

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Post by owl »

kibsolar

Good points re electrical regulations which we all have to comply with.

I do feel the original header of 'Illegal solar installations' was misleading and somewhat 'Alarmist'.

At least we have established that Solar installations, as long as complying with usual electrical regulations are not actually 'Illegal' regardless of whether you 'apply' to Kibtek or not.

The answer is obviously to use an experienced 'solar' contractor who gives you the correct information.

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Re: illegal solar installs

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Post by eco free electric »

i think some one who thinks they know best should read the first paragraph of the new government document
Note
you cannot make up your own rules guys

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Re: illegal solar installs

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Post by owl »

ecofree

It seems pretty clear there are no currently Legally enforcable regulations for 'Solar'.

Remember it's not a 'Government Document',... it's yet another 'Draft' of potential future requirements. There is no existing Legislation.

No existing or new installation of Alternative Energy systems are 'illegal' unless they contravene existing Electrical Rules.

These are the only pertinent 'Rules' and no-one should be put off by 'Alarmist' advertising.

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Re: illegal solar installs

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Post by guru »

We have a large generator on our site which automatically kicks in to supply the complex with electricity during a power cut. It's wonderful and means we never have to worry about power cuts, but funny enough when the genny is running our electric meter still happily spins around in the same way.

I wonder if I could apply to Kibtec for a refund of all the units I've been billed for, for the electric they HAVEN'T supplied me with!!!!!!

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Re: illegal solar installs

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Post by eco free electric »

Owl,

Please refrain from making these comments unless you know for sure.

On the 14th of February 2014, TRNC government issued in the ''official Prime minister newspaper'' the new Renewable Energy Law. This document is also published on the Prime Ministry Website.

The law is in force and a committee has been formed by the Agriculture, Food and Energy ministry to enforce the law.

KIBTEK are now in possesion of the two-way meters and preperations are been made to start installing these new meters to ''LEGALLY'' installed systems.

There are various requirements to making the system legal, but the key points are:

1) The installing company must be a registered company with permission to Install Renewable Energy Systems in the TRNC
2) System to be installed by a qualified electrician who is a member of the Electricians Union
3) The equipment used comply with all the regulations

At ECO FREE ELECTRIC we comply with all of the legal requirements and work closely with our customers and with the relevant authorities to ensure that these systems are LEGAL.

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Re: illegal solar installs

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Post by kibsolar1999 »

For those who do not know or need some turkish lessons:
the "law" is called 47/2011 (YEK yasa) and on 12.2.2014 the new regulations for it, the "YEK (uygulama ve denetim) tüzügü" had been issued
To enforce a law, we have the justice and the police.
At the commitees table sitting reps of several organisations (one is a Kibtek rep). They work on and complete the regulations and decide about applications.

here was said:
1) The installing company must be a registered company (TRUE) with permission to Install Renewable Energy Systems in the TRNC (NOT TRUE)
2) System to be installed by a qualified electrician who is a member of the Electricians Union (NOT TRUE)
3) The equipment used comply with all the regulations (TRUE, tech specs are not known, yet, commitee will say)

To my knowledge KIBTEK is NOT in possession of the 2-way meters and even if, they can not install these meters as there are no permissions given from the commitee.

Anyway, the application forms for Renewable energy systems are now available and we are ready to lead you through this (for now) djungel.
After a permission for your system is given, we will install you the agreed system and then you will be connected by KIBTEK
So much about the "correct" way to become legal.

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Re: illegal solar installs

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Post by owl »

ECO FREE

'please refrain from making these comments'

Excuse me??

You cheeky boy!

I spent 3 years researching before installing Solar. Checked everything out legally and discussed with Kibtek.

Kibsolar guided me professionally through the whole simple process and gave me a personalised system that suits my requirements and budget.
They also showed me a number of completed projects, I was very impressed.

I am a supporter of healthy competition, but cannot praise Kibsolar enough for their knowledge and expertise. Since my installation I personally know of other installations they have successfully completed around NC.
I thoroughly recommend them whether it's just a 'Solar' pool or a larger system.

I wish you well with your business.

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Re: illegal solar installs

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Post by kibsolar1999 »

YESTERDAY, KIBTEK went for tender for a couple of thousands e-meters, also some net-metering units.
closing date is 30.5.2014.. then Kibtek need to decide... after that, the winner must order and deliver.
Takes a while..
KIBTEK wants far less net-meter units as we all have expected, actually disappointing.
Place your application with us NOW, that we are ready for installation when it comes to terms.

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Re: illegal solar installs

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Post by eco free electric »

Owl and Kibsolar1999,

It is important to you are upto date with the law as oppose to law from 3 years ago, as we are been ill-advised by OWL.

Those systems that have been installed by a registered company without the permission to install Solar systems are been switched off by KIBTEK under instruction from the Ministry.

All Renewable Energy systems, must have permission from the ministry! This includes Off-grid systems like the system OWL seems to say he has had installed.

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Re: illegal solar installs

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Post by owl »

ecofree

Paul, have you thought that through you numpty?

How can Kibtek 'switch off' an off grid installation, there's nothing for them to switch off!

What about a home with only a generator and gas bottles? Kibtek going to confiscate the genny and gas bottles?

Remove parafin lamps from remote properties?????

A house near me has a well with a small portable genny for pumping. Kibtek going to 'switch off' or remove that?????

Suppliers such as Kibsolar are fully acquainted with current and proposed legislation.

Trying to 'frighten' people into dealing with you seems a very dubious and strange marketing approach.

Owl ( Solar-Legal-Happy!)

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Re: illegal solar installs

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Post by eco free electric »

Owl or shall I say ''Kıbsolar Peter''

Rather than using insulting words on this page, try and get your system legalised - that is assuming that you do exist as ''Owl'' and have a system installed - as it does seem that you are ''Kibsolar'' working out of your van with plenty of time doing nothing but trying to attract business illegally from your ''dubious and strange marketing strategy''.

Kibtek can and will remove off-grid systems installed illegally by installers who do not follow the clear guidelines in the government documents.

I would be happy to take the time out to come along to your so called ''legal'' off-grid system with an inspector allocated by the Renewable Energy committee and see what happens. This of course can only happen if you actually exist.

At the same time we are happy for all of our many ''legal'' systems to be inspected by an inspector allocated by the Renewable Energy committee. This is why on all of our installs we have now made the application to the ministry so that the customers can have a YEK certificate and have a new 2 way meter installed.

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Re: illegal solar installs

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Post by kibsolar1999 »

Hi ecofree Paul,
after leaving a booming UK PV market, you opened an office in Karakum in September 2013.
I visited you there to "welcome you in the TRNC" and to have a chat to see what we might can "do together"...
In summary, i have to say that you have been both very unfriendly and uncommunicative.
I got neither a coffe nor water offered and you did not even "look up" from your computer..
All you said was "i know everything what i need and have everything i need"
ok. fine.
Later, you did ask us via email for equipment: "i need a 8kw kt complete with battery back up..."
When we did ask you "specify your request, please", you obviously realised that the already and since many years existing solar companies on this island are not a bulk of idiots and you send us replies like: " .. i am fully tech qual;ified in all areas with full certification both in solar design and electrical installations and we work to the law with kib tek and the electrical union YOU!!
so i dont need to give you anything ".
ok. fine. Still unfriendly.
In many posts here you claimed that you have all permissions for "legal installations"..
We always said here that this is "impossible", because not even the appplication forms for a permission are available.
now you say "we have now made the application to the ministry".
ok, for "better business start" reasons you gave wrong information (many do that) and now you try to correct that. fine.
But, please do not call us "owl" and please do not send us emails saying that you will "take legal" against us (without reason).
We never did and never will post under a "pseudonym".
kibsolar1999

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Re: illegal solar installs

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Post by owl »

Paul

You had me worried there! Thought I must be dreaming!

Pinched myself,.. yep, still me.
Checked my passport,.. nope, not called Peter.
Checked my garage,.. yep, batteries and inverters humming nicely.
Checked my pool,.. yep, solar pump running, keeping overflow all day.
Walked round the house,. yep, solar panels still there.

Maybe it is you who is dreaming?

owl

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Re: illegal solar installs

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Post by eco free electric »

kibsolar1999 = Owl,

We have clearly stated the law and further to our meeting from today with the ministry, we strongly advise customers not to install systems before they speak to the energy ministry regarding the law on renewable energy in the TRNC.

You clearly have a lot of free time and sit on the forum all day making ''silly'' and ''unnecessary'' comments about ECO FREE ELECTRIC.
We are ''very friendly, easy to communicate with and extremely polite'' as described by many of our clients.

Our office based in Karakum, Girne is open to the members of the public and we are always available to answer queries regarding solar.

We have our own stock and our own very happy customers and therefore ask you to get on with your own business (if any available), from your own office (if any available). Where is your office by the way?

kibsolar1999
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Re: illegal solar installs

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  •   Message 38 of 38 in Discussion

Post by kibsolar1999 »

kibsolar1999 ≠ owl
we just serviced the system. Actually we service a couple of systems... "out of our van".
Btw, thanks that you believe iam owl.. my english obviously improved a lot.
And about your "general behaviour".. this we may just leave to others.
Self-adulation never is nice.

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