Internet - Getting what you pay for ?

Want to know how to receive English Channels via the Internet in North Cyprus? Need to repair or buy a laptop?

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erol
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Internet - Getting what you pay for ?

Post by erol »

There is a refrain from a small subset of people on this forum and others along the lines of 'I pay for x mbs and if I do not get it 24-7 then I am not getting what I paid for' and usually with some kind of analogy along the lines of 'if you went and paid for 5 cans of larger but only got 3 you would not be happy'.

The fact is the expectation of getting the maximum speed from a home internet connection 24/7 is not a realistic expectation and the analogies used are not just flawed, they are pejorative and in essence defamatory. If you pay for 5 lagers and get three you have been cheated by a crook. Implying that when you only get 3mbs on a home internet connection in peak usage periods when you bought an up to 5mbs package (and may well be getting more than 5mbs for the majority of the time in a 24 hour period) is comparable to the 'lagers' analogy is, frankly, as insulting as it is incorrect.

"Although your broadband package will have a headline speed (e.g. “up to 8 or 20Mb per second”), you are unlikely to be able to get this speed all of the time."

The above are not my words. They are the words of OFCOM the UK telecoms regulator on their consumer guide for broadband speeds which can be seen here Ofcom | Broadband speeds

From the same Ofcom consumer guide.

"You may find that your broadband speed is a lot slower at some times of the day. Like the roads, internet speed depends on how much other people are using it. At peak times (usually afternoons and evenings) your broadband speed may be slower;"

Another Ofcom detailed report on the UK market (all be it from 2010) can be found here

Ofcom | Ofcom research reveals increase in UK?s average actual broadband speed ? But consumers still not achieving advertised speeds

From this report of Internet packages sold in the UK in 2010 advertised as upto 8 0r 10mbs the actual average speed of these packages, not just in peak times but average across 24 hours, was actually 3.3mbs.

I will say that one more time - Ofcom found that the average speed of internet packages sold in the UK (in 2010) advertised as 8mbs or 10mbs the actual average speed (not average speed during peak times but actual average) was 3.3mbs.

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Re: Internet - Getting what you pay for ?

Post by bargainboozeandwines »

We do not fly under the wings of Ofcom.No point in mentioning them .

Internet and TV in my honest opinion should be just the same as buying a car or a kg of fillet steak and no matter how much spin one tries to add to the mix it does not make a difference if you are not getting what the label says on the tin.

Imagine going to Ford and buying a RS 1.6 ford fiesta and you pick it up and drive off down the road and realise some thing is wrong,it is a 1.3 L and you take it back and they tell you,well if you drive it downhill and with the wind behind you it will go 130MPH but if you drive it on a straight and with no wind you might get 89MPH out of it !

Why are we having Ofcom rammed down our throats when we are not in the UK and it does not matter to us.

We are in Sunny Cyprus and are attracted to multimax because of there offers of great super speeds so with that in mind we sign up with them and only get what we signed up for some of the time,why can it not say that in the sticker on the can !!

Anyway multimax have failed me.Simple.

Can any one tell me what the advert below is about please?? Or better still can the spin doctor tell us all if we can get what is advertised in the ad below and how often can we get these speeds??
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speed test today at Ofcom advert mis leading.JPG
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Re: Internet - Getting what you pay for ?

Post by erol »

bargainboozeandwines wrote:We do not fly under the wings of Ofcom.No point in mentioning them .
The point is this issue is the same the world over. You might not like that fact but it is a fact none the less.

http://www.zdnet.com/lies-damned-lies-a ... 000001336/
bargainboozeandwines wrote:Internet and TV in my honest opinion should be just the same as buying a car or a kg of fillet steak and no matter how much spin one tries to add to the mix it does not make a difference if you are not getting what the label says on the tin.
Yeah and in my honest opinion there should be world peace and fairer distribution of wealth world wide but unfortunately what I think should be the case and what is the actual reality are two different things. Advertising a kg of steak and charging for it but providing less than a kilo would be illegal because it is simple and clear cut. Providing an absolute guaranteed internet speed achievable all the time to any location anywhere in the world is just not possible.
bargainboozeandwines wrote:Imagine going to Ford and buying a RS 1.6 ford fiesta and you pick it up and drive off down the road and realise some thing is wrong,it is a 1.3 L and you take it back and they tell you,well if you drive it downhill and with the wind behind you it will go 130MPH but if you drive it on a straight and with no wind you might get 89MPH out of it !
Imagine Ford quoting an average urban fuel consumption for a vehicle but when you buy one your own actual personal fuel consumption is considerably different ? That is a much more reasonable analogy and the underlying reason is the same as with the internet. It is not possible to produce such a figure that will be accurate for every scenario. If you expect and demand things which are not possible you will be disappointed.
bargainboozeandwines wrote:Or better still can the spin doctor tell us all if we can get what is advertised in the ad below and how often can we get these speeds??
What is advertised is exactly the same as what ISP around the world advertise. That is 'headline' speeds. In reality Multimax exceeds these speeds for most customer most of the time to a degree that is atypical of ISPs around the world. Does this mean that every customer will always get these speeds or more all of the time. No it does not and any ISP that claimed that would be lying.

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Re: Internet - Getting what you pay for ?

Post by bargainboozeandwines »

so basically it is ok to advertise 5mb and give 3mb or less most of the time?

So why not sell us 3mb all of the time and give us 3mb most of the time?

Does that make sense because that would suit my pocket.

Example. in cyprus most people sell a bottle of varietal Chilean wine for 15 to 20 TL.

I will sell a Reserva bottle of Chilean wine for 14 or 15TL not 26 or 29 or 30 TL or maybe more !!!

It is called value for your buck !


So 5Mbit advertised above is not realistic all of the time ??? If not then why cant i have a realistic price for all of the time even though 700 and odd TL is pretty good,but it would be nice to have a more stable price which matches the speed i would be getting some of the time and not all of the time !
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Re: Internet - Getting what you pay for ?

Post by erol »

bargainboozeandwines wrote: so basically it is ok to advertise 5mb and give 3mb or less most of the time?
We advertise 5mbs and for most of our customer most of the time they get more than this. Compared with say the example from the uk / Ofcom where services advertised in the UK across all internet suppliers as 8mbs services actually averaged 3.3mbs.
bargainboozeandwines wrote: If not then why cant i have a realistic price for all of the time even though 700 and odd TL is pretty good,but it would be nice to have a more stable price which matches the speed i would be getting some of the time and not all of the time !
You can get dedicated bandwidth internet services here and in the UK. These would provide a guaranteed speed BUT they only guarantee speed to a specific point, past that point there are no guarantees as such are impossible to give. What is more such services are typically 50 to 100 times more expensive than a normal home connection. Are you willing to pay that price ? If you expect a service that is a hundred times cheaper than real existing services and expect it to perform even better that said premium priced services then you will be disappointed.

If you expect the impossible then you will be disappointed. If you pay for an X mbs internet home connection in the UK and expect to always get at least that speed or more all the time to any location you will be disappointed. If you pay for an X mbs internet connection in the USA and expect to always get at least that speed or more all the time to any location you will be disappointed. If you pay for an X mbs internet connection in North Cyprus, from MM or extend or any other provider and expect to always get at least that speed or more all the time to any location you will be disappointed.

The fact is before Multimax started operations here in North Cyprus internet speeds (advertised and actual) were slower and more expensive than they are today. Some of that increase in speeds (advertised and actual) and reduction in price is just normal progression of technology but a significant part of it is a direct result of the competition MM brought to the North Cyprus internet market. You (anyone in North Cyprus) are actually getting better value for money from your internet connections here that you were two or 5 years ago, what ever supplier you chose to buy service from and to a material degree thanks to Multimax. We do not expect to be thank for that but I certainly do take exception at being compared to a crook , which is what you do when you compare us to a butcher charging you for a kilo of steak but giving you less than a kilo.

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Re: Internet - Getting what you pay for ?

Post by bargainboozeandwines »

But i was never disappointed with my virgin media internet service.Honest.I got what i paid for.Honest.

Hang on a min mr spin. You cannot tell me that i compare you to a crook,that is slanderous to say the least.

I know when i compare your business with a butchers business i know i am not comparing you to a mmmmm, ( A crook)

I am just using that as an example. when i buy 1kg of meat i usually always get 999g of meat and sometimes 1001g. So i would of thought that when i buy 5Mbit from multimax i would get at least 4.99 or 3.99Mbit,but of course i do not,i don't know why,and from your email you don't seem to know why so who does know why i wonder !!

Anyway im sure it does not matter now as we are departing company and im moving on to pastures that i hope give me the service that i pay for !

toodle looo now.
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Re: Internet - Getting what you pay for ?

Post by erol »

bargainboozeandwines wrote:But i was never disappointed with my virgin media internet service.Honest.I got what i paid for.Honest.
You may not have been disappointed with your virgin media internet connection in the UK - just as the vast majority of MMs customers are not disappointed with theirs. That does not mean every one of our customers is happy and neither doe it mean every one of virgin media's are either ( http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=75) The fact remains that in a test done by Ofcom in 2010 of internet services sold as 8mbs or 10mbs, including those sold by virgin media, the actual average speed of those services was 3.3mbs. This is a fact, not opinion.
bargainboozeandwines wrote:Hang on a min mr spin.
Call me Mr Spin all you like but actually I am probably one of the most honest, direct and straight forward people you are ever likely to meet. Now that's an opinion.
bargainboozeandwines wrote:You cannot tell me that i compare you to a crook,that is slanderous to say the least.
Despite what you may think that is in fact exactly what you are doing. A butcher that knowingly sells less than 1kilo of steak and charges for it as 1 kilo is a crook. That is exactly what you compared us to, ignoring the fact that meat can be easily and accurately measured and providing internet at a specific speed or more at any time to any location can not.
bargainboozeandwines wrote: So i would of thought that when i buy 5Mbit from multimax i would get at least 4.99 or 3.99Mbit,...
And I am trying to explain to you why that is not always the case. Not with a MM connection and not with any internet connection anywhere in the world. Not only have I tried to explain to you it is not the case I have provided hard facts prove it is not the case. Yet still you continue to insist it should be the case.
bargainboozeandwines wrote:but of course i do not,i don't know why,and from your email you don't seem to know why so who does know why i wonder !!
I know exactly why comparing the max advertised speed of a home internet connection with buying a kilo of meat from a butcher is an inherently flawed and pejorative comparison and have taken time and trouble to explain that. As they say you can lead a horse to water but you can not make it drink.
bargainboozeandwines wrote:Anyway im sure it does not matter now as we are departing company and im moving on to pastures that i hope give me the service that i pay for !

toodle looo now.
I wish you all the best with your new service provider and hope that it gives you everything you want and expect and am sure if it does not you will waste little time in coming onto the forum to let us all know.

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Re: Internet - Getting what you pay for ?

Post by Jonnie »

I have known Erolz for a number of years. He is a decent honest guy and MM is all the better for having him on board. He is certainly no spin doctor and will tell you exactly how it is.

I have always known that internet speeds around the world are "contended", you may be able to find someone who can supply a dedicated package but this would be at a premium. By sisters BT package is often slower than mine and the last issue took 3 weeks to sort out.

You may switch to Extend, ask them if their speed is guaranteed if they tell you it is they will be lying.

To use your wine analogy "I will sell a Reserva bottle of Chilean wine for 14 or 15TL not 26 or 29 or 30 TL or maybe more" ok we all come running and you run out of stock, no guarantee there.

I wish you al the best with your ADSL, it is cheaper at least, but when it does not perform you will get Extend blaming Kibkom and Kibkom will give you the shrug and if one of the cables comes down in the winter winds lets hope it takes less time to repair than the 8 weeks it took to put the phones back on to my whole village last winter.

Where is your shop, the Chilean Reserva does sound quite nice.
Some are wise and some otherwise.....

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Re: Internet - Getting what you pay for ?

Post by Jonnie »

If you look here it gives the pricing structure

http://mmcyp.com/index.php?option=com_c ... 67&lang=en

All speeds are stated as "up to"
Some are wise and some otherwise.....

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Re: Internet - Getting what you pay for ?

Post by bargainboozeandwines »

Hi Jonnie.Erol.

Every one seems to be missing the point here. I buy my internet so i can work in daylight hours up until around 7pm Cyprus time.
Most days for what i am doing it is not possible to work at this time and gets very frustrating when you cannot finish your work and there fore need to carry on much later into the evening.

I have asked is the internet over crowded and there has never once been a straight answer yes or no,always lots of spin put onto it. All i have ever asked for is a straight answer and i feel i have never got it.

It is no big loss to either of us,i left extend several years ago when MM open their business and went with MM and now im going to give Extend another try.If they do not compare to MM i shall tell you all.

As ive said here in the past i hate moaning but some times you got to. I know all speeds are up to,but when you are getting no speed as you have seen my posting then it is time to complain,wouldn't you agree? Good Luck MM.

The shops will be in Alsanjac and Catalkoy.
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Re: Internet - Getting what you pay for ?

Post by wanderer »

Unfortunately Cyprus does not have the best infrastructure MM have delivered on speed most times but occasionally fall over as do many services in cyprus
Virgin best rated or least complained about UK provider used to" choke " of their speeds after 15:30 till 12:00 we were on fibre optic connections but they didn't have capacity I rarely have problems with them a friend with an internet based retail supple business in the Shropshire countryside had to pay £30k for a suitable wireless connection some 15 years ago and he had problems

Provider
Complaints per 1,000 customers (Q3 Jul-Sep 2012)
Complaints per 1,000 customers (Q4 Oct-Dec 2012)
Complaints per 1,000 customers (Q1 Jan-Mar 2013)
Complaints per 1,000 customers (Q2 Apr-June 2013)
EE
0.50
0.70
0.57
0.32
TalkTalk
0.35
0.33
0.36
0.29
BT
0.34
0.30
0.33
0.28
Sky
0.09
0.08
0.10
0.09
Virgin Media
0.12
0.10
0.08
0.06

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Re: Internet - Getting what you pay for ?

Post by suel5 »

What great results you found for uk internet providers.
I am with mm, have been from the start. We are not in the uk. We have connection problems, not what package we purchased, just having any access, ie skype!
Have recommended them to many friends.
They have always provided an excellent service and that is why I have always sung their praises to friends.

However, last 3 weeks, have had to contact them due to virtually non existent, internet connection on a saturday? First two weeks was fixed, from a text, how, I do not know. This week was told my problem was within the house.

Each saturday that I have had problems, as have some of my friends that I recommended mm too, although they have not raised an issue because they did not know how to, the internet has been back to normal late on at night and always by the next day.
Today has not been a problem at all.

I accept all the stuff on speeds etc, just internet access which we all pay for would be enough. Being able to stay connected? Not too much to ask?

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Re: Internet - Getting what you pay for ?

Post by erol »

Suel5 please do not think that the purpose of this thread was to try and ignore customers with real problems or some kind of charter that any level of service no matter how bad is acceptable. That was not the intent at all.

I started this thread to try and explain why the 'kilo of meat' analogies and comparisons are not fair ones and that an expectation that a home internet connection of up to 5mbs will always deliver 5mbs or more 24/7 365 days a year to any location on the internet is not a realistic one.

If you continue to have issues please do contact me directly at [email protected] and I will do my best to get them resolved for you.

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Re: Internet - Getting what you pay for ?

Post by PoshinDevon »

This thread is now locked.

The explanation provided by the service provider is factual and accurate. No service provider can guarantee that you will get xxx MB download/upload that is a fact. It is true the world over and as I have worked in the telecommunications industry of 40+ years here in the UK, even with the advanced infrastructure available there are no guarantees.

If you have an issue please raise it direct with the service provider. I am confident that if there is a general problem affecting many users the service provider will quickly place an update on this forum.
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