Vulnerable People

Disability and mobility issues within the TRNC. Help and information from members regarding problems faced with access issues within the TRNC as well as other information required concerning disability matters.

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PoshinDevon
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Vulnerable People

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Post by PoshinDevon »

In response to a post on the Freedom of Speech topic and to prevent that particular thread from going off topic here is something to consider.

Firstly I think it’s important to understand what is the definition of a vulnerable adult. This is one definition......... there are no doubt many others.

“ A person who is 18 years of age or over, and who is or may be in need of community care services by reason of mental or other disability, age or illness and who is or may be unable to take care of him/herself, or unable to protect him/herself against significant harm or serious exploitation."

Question: How are we to know whether a Kibkom member is vulnerable?
This is an Internet forum and unless a poster meets another Kibkom member or knows them personally it is unlikely they will know the intimate details of their personal situation. How do we know if that person is shy, outgoing, sensitive, caring, vulnerable etc? We could hazard a guess but as we only have their written word and posts to go by that to me would be somewhat dangerous.

Therefore if you are contributing to a debate then you should expect to be challenged in a fair manner. You should also expect your point of view to be rigorously dissected, examined and commented on. Providing this is done without breaking the forum rules then the comments should be allowed to stand on the forum. Some are better able than others to ignore the continual negative comments that come their way and enjoy a good healthy debate. However if you do not want your views challenged, are sensitive, averse to criticism or get upset each time they are then the answer is very simple - don’t engage in the debate.

Question: What rules should be in place to protect vulnerable people posting on the forum? Are they the forum owners rules, the law of the land......what are the rules?

Question: Who should police these rules/laws, the forum owner, the moderators, an independent paid body aka the internet police? What advisory document should be in place as an aid to guide those running a forum? Who draws up this document?

Moderators are on this forum are volunteers, we are not paid and moderate as best we can. We are not social workers and in no way can they know all the personal details of every forum member. We try to be fair and unbiased, as well as having the skin of a rhino at times, letting some of the more personal comments wash by.

Going back to the definition perphaps people should read it and decide are they really vulnerable or do they; like all of us, have different aspects to our personality which makes us react in a certain way?
Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass,it's about learning to dance in the rain

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ttoli
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Re: Vulnerable People

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Post by ttoli »

what has this world come to ?
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Re: Vulnerable People

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Post by PoshinDevon »

ttoli

I often ask myself the same question.

Unfortunately for me I can never find the answer.

Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass,it's about learning to dance in the rain

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Re: Vulnerable People

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Post by Ragged Robin »

ttoli: I cannot access your link?

Posh: Some time ago when I was being attacked by spiteful people with no means of recourse, I sent to you and Soner an article about cyber bullying which aimed to explain it to forum owners and moderators, and included some guidelines for moderators. Sorry I do not have time to look it up again but I know there is plenty on the subject on the Internet.

As far as I am concerned, I do not consider sensitivity a crime or a sin, but insensitivity is!

I am a very tired of volunteers using that status as an excuse for the way they do the job. When you offer to do something you take on that responsibility and whether you take payment in money is irrelevant. Or is it true that a volunteer is someone who did not understand the question in the first place.

A large number of people here volunteered to look after varying numbers of dogs and cats themselves as individuals . A few of course then abandoned the animal when the going got hard. But most continue in the light of the increased cost of living (particularly vets fees ) and their own increasing age to honour their responsibilies despite it involving them in serious hardship, Only disabling illness or death stops their responsibility.Yet when I suggested a little practical help in appropriate cases all you could say was "people should not have dogs if they cant look after them" That is the heartless statement that caused me to decide I could not longer support this forum.

Please forgive me if I do not sympathise with you if you are finding a task onerous which you can carry when, how and where you want , at at no apparent financial cost, where you do not have to get up in the middle of the night to care for a sick animal, drive the vets when you have flu, mop up vomit when you are ill yourself and exercise a dog whilst in pain yourself.

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Re: Vulnerable People

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Post by PoshinDevon »

RR

I do not find the task of moderating on the forum onerous and I am certainly not looking for any sympathy.

I started this topic in the hope of stimulating some debate which you so often accuse the forum of lacking.

Posting as a Kibkom member I view your reply; I am sorry to say, as very familiar and predictable, particularly your last two paragraphs. If you reread the topic to which you refer you will find that what you have written is not accurate and there were others apart from myself who were challenging your point of view.

As such there is no point in trying to engage in further discussion with yourself.
Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass,it's about learning to dance in the rain

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Re: Vulnerable People

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

Ragged Robin wrote: Yet when I suggested a little practical help in appropriate cases all you could say was "people should not have dogs if they cant look after them" That is the heartless statement that caused me to decide I could not longer support this forum.
Not really.
Re-reading the thread this are the only quotes I could find that even come close.
PoshinDevon wrote: So what sort of support are KAR expected to provide? When someone takes on a dog they must understand all that goes with it which will include the basics of food, water, training, walks plus the inevitable vets bills which will follow.
PoshinDevon wrote: However; for me, it goes back to understanding the commitment and all that is involved in owning a dog. There is an emotional and financial cost involved and if you are unwilling to take this on or cannot afford the costs then serious consideration should be given as the whether a dog is indeed the right pet for you. I am not sure KAR should have to incur ongoing additional costs once someone takes responsibility for an animal.
Free speech isn't freestyling someone elses speech.

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Re: Vulnerable People

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Post by Ragged Robin »

[quote="PoshinDevon"]RR

I do not find the task of moderating on the forum onerous and I am certainly not looking for any sympathy.

I started this topic in the hope of stimulating some debate which you so often accuse the forum of lacking.

Posting as a Kibkom member I view your reply; I am sorry to say, as very familiar and predictable, particularly your last two paragraphs. If you reread the topic to which you refer you will find that what you have written is not accurate and there were others apart from myself who were challenging your point of view.

As such there is no point in trying to engage in further discussion with yourself.[/quote
]


I assure you Posh, that you statement there is no furthr point in trying to discuss with you is entirely mutual, Unfortunately for me you have the advantage of being a Moderator and belief that you word is law. For this reason I had already decided to leave the forum. However there are some issues too important to ignore.

I have been seeing a lot recently about the use of dogs in the UK, the US and Austalia to help underpriviledged people : in particular those with mental health problems are helped tc communicate with others by the company and undemanding and unspoken love of a dog. Lonely elderly, insecure children and the disabled also reap benefits. Unfortunately these are the very people who may need a little practical help, and cannot afford heavy vets fees or necessary respite care to enable them to take holidays. I thought what a wonderful thing it would be if the North Cyprus community could devote some of the money, and particularly time and care, to helping stray dogs into a caring home where they could do some good, rather than putting them in pounds. However I have come to the conclusion that as far as KIbcom is concerned there is not the gooodwill and empathy to justify my efforts. Very, very sad.

As far as vulnerable people are concerned this is catch 22. If vulnerable people put on a board like this their problems they put themselves at risk of theft, rape and tricksters. Unforunately the nature of the board tempts people to reveal their vulnerabilities (like why the disabled cannot access certain places) and some irresponsible posters tease them into doing so. In my view and experience elsewhere Moderators should assume that all posters are vulnerable in one way or another unless or until proved otherwise, Again I have in the past reported the problem to Adminisration and moderators without response.

End of discussion as far as I am concerned, but please see today's Cyprus Today on the latest spread of distemper.
The suggestion is made that if neutering and vaccination had taken priority over building more "pounds it would have been better. It is my view that it could have been avoided if more dogs had been cared for by responsible owners who when necessary had been assisted with the cost of neutering, vaccination and microchips . As it is it seems the disease may be spreading into wild animals as I forecast (I think I will change my name to Cassandra ! ) with untold costs in terms of loss of tourism alone.

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Re: Vulnerable People

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

Ragged Robin wrote:
It is my view that it could have been avoided if more dogs had been cared for by responsible owners who when necessary had been assisted with the cost of neutering, vaccination and microchips.
It's a lovely idea but it won't work in anything like the numbers needed.

Work out how many British people live out here.
Work out how many homes they inhabit because it won't be one home for one person.
Subtract most of the ones renting because the terms of their rental agreement will probably stop them having a dog.
Subtract people who own apartments because keeping a dog in an apartment isn't practical and again probably not allowed.
Subtract the people who go home for significant periods of the year. You can get someone to possibly look after your dog for two weeks, two months not so easy.
Subtract people who don't like dogs. People generally are either dog or cat people.
Subtract people who simply don't care.
Then figure out how many dogs that need homes.
It doesn't stack up.

KAR and the animal charities have a limited amount of money so it comes down to economies of scale and allocating resources.

It's like care of the elderly.
In a perfect world we could pay our taxes and provide a live in companion for every old person needing one.
The reality is a care home housing several elderly people is usually the only option.
Now what would be the best course of action for a pressure group or charity for the elderly?
Lobby the government for 24/7 live in companions for all the elderly people needing one? Which wont even get off the starting blocks due to cost.
Push for more resources for home visits etc? That has a chance.
Push for more resources to be allocated to improve the quality of care homes?

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