DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

Here you can comment on political news, create threads for open discussion.

Moderators: PoshinDevon, Soner, Dragon

Post Reply
User avatar
waz-24-7
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 988
Joined: Sun 24 Aug 2014 2:37 pm

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 201 of 308 in Discussion

Post by waz-24-7 »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
waz-24-7 wrote:
The EU, taken as a whole is the UK's largest trading partner. In 2017, UK exports to the EU were £274 billion (44% of all UK exports). UK imports from the EU were £341 billion (53% of all UK imports).30 Nov 2018
Waz will answer it more detail when I get more time re the %s though they are a bit of a self fulfilling prorphesy.

I'm guessing you got your figures from;

https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk ... y/CBP-7851

Did you miss that the percentage of exports had fallen from 55% in 2006 to 44% or left it out deliberately?
A more relevant figure is that in the same period the EU share of Foreign Direct Investment has fallen from 46% to 33% so looks like the world in general is moving on from the EU.

I don't mind if they are honest and say this is a political project and will cost you a shed load of money so vote in or out based on that but to say it is to our economic advantage isn't true.

Figures are very generally available in the public domain for sure.
If Indeed the decline in figures that you have discovered are correct. That is no reason at all to BREXIT and hinder further any trade with the Union.
What is certain in my mind and indeed many is that the UK economy will be severely hit post 29th March . Particularly if we crash out without a deal.

I really would like your take ….DEAL (rubbish as it is) or NO DEAL( catastrophic certainly) or let the people decide. (the democratic way)

User avatar
PoshinDevon
Kibkom Mod
Kibkom Mod
Posts: 2281
Joined: Wed 04 Apr 2012 6:32 pm

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 202 of 308 in Discussion

Post by PoshinDevon »

waz-24-7 wrote:
EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
waz-24-7 wrote:
The EU, taken as a whole is the UK's largest trading partner. In 2017, UK exports to the EU were £274 billion (44% of all UK exports). UK imports from the EU were £341 billion (53% of all UK imports).30 Nov 2018
Waz will answer it more detail when I get more time re the %s though they are a bit of a self fulfilling prorphesy.

I'm guessing you got your figures from;

https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk ... y/CBP-7851

Did you miss that the percentage of exports had fallen from 55% in 2006 to 44% or left it out deliberately?
A more relevant figure is that in the same period the EU share of Foreign Direct Investment has fallen from 46% to 33% so looks like the world in general is moving on from the EU.

I don't mind if they are honest and say this is a political project and will cost you a shed load of money so vote in or out based on that but to say it is to our economic advantage isn't true.

Figures are very generally available in the public domain for sure.
If Indeed the decline in figures that you have discovered are correct. That is no reason at all to BREXIT and hinder further any trade with the Union.
What is certain in my mind and indeed many is that the UK economy will be severely hit post 29th March . Particularly if we crash out without a deal.

I really would like your take ….DEAL (rubbish as it is) or NO DEAL( catastrophic certainly) or let the people decide. (the democratic way)
The people have already decided in a democratic way....but some have failed to notice.

If there was ever another referendum (I don’t think there will be) then what are the choices to be? I do not believe there would be agreement even as to what the choices would be on the ballot paper. If the vote again went in favour of leave.....then what?
Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass,it's about learning to dance in the rain

Peterborough Utd -The Posh

kerry 6138
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 1006
Joined: Mon 05 Oct 2015 6:38 pm

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 203 of 308 in Discussion

Post by kerry 6138 »

waz 24_7 wrote "The deal must be made soon so that economic and business decisions can be made with more ease than currently. Uncertainty is very bad for business and investment"

" the markets are well down as a consequence of drawn out uncertainty"

" I cannot forecast any positives in this uncertainty"

"£ Sterling remain weak against the currencies of importance USA $ and the EURO. This is mostly due to the uncertainty that the BREXIT referendum has instilled within markets
"

This is a few of the many statements you've made during the Brexit debates regarding uncertainty, how does delaying article 50 to allow time for a referendum to take place, leaving aside what question would be asked, help?
The current situation is
Majority voted to leave the EU at the original referendum
Majority voted for parties supporting the result of the referendum in the following election
Majority of MPs voted to trigger article 50
Currently the legal certainty is that unless the EU improves the deal or MPs change their minds on the current deal we leave the EU in March.
Elections, "peoples vote" would only extend the uncertainty that you say is bad for business.

For what its worth if there was time for a referendum my questions would be Deal or No Deal, has we've already dealt with the leave or remain options

https://constitution-unit.com/2018/08/3 ... on-brexit/


The UK has held five referendums under the terms of PPERA, three of which were enabled directly by UK primary legislation – the 2004 North East Assembly referendum, 2011 Alternative Vote referendum and 2016 EU referendum. As the graph below shows, all had fairly long timetables: the shortest was the AV referendum, which took nine months from the introduction of legislation to polling day
With political will legislation can be rushed through on significantly reduced timescales

Allowing one week between passage of legislation and the start of the regulated campaign, and a 10-week regulated campaign period, would take the total period from start to finish to 24 weeks.

turtle
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 865
Joined: Sun 25 Nov 2012 10:44 am

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 204 of 308 in Discussion

Post by turtle »

So what about the question of "Another" general election...Labour are obsessed with this option with Corbyn so desperate to get hold of the keys to number 10...but would he pull it off if we had one ?
Both Labour and the Tories would lose seats in the commons with leave voters booting out MPs who have simply ignored what they voted for and consistently frustrating the passage of Brexit I think a major clear out of career self centred MPs is well overdue.

Is this the comeback of Ukip ? or is this the start of a new party with Nigel Farage as leader and mopping up 17m voters and leaving on a no deal.

User avatar
waddo
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 3891
Joined: Sun 13 May 2012 7:21 am

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 205 of 308 in Discussion

Post by waddo »

Nothing will change, the UK will leave the EU in a major crash out. This because the "People" have spoken and they hold the country not only to ransom but they also will have the responsibility for everything that follows on after the 29th of March - be it good or bad. Over the cliff we go!

Of course now that the "People" have a much wider view of what is liable to happen and actually what will happen in a No Deal they can always say that it is the Government's fault for leading the country over the cliff. I have watched Question Time with some interest over the last few months and can honestly say I would not follow any of thm, not even out of curiosity! They are like children arguing over who will have the last sweet in the packet, with one of them holding the packet and saying it is theirs because all the people in the shop saw her buy it and they must not be ignored! I wonder if Mrs May owns a Toyota Corolla? You may wonder why I ask - simple really, it is the World's most popular, best selling car as voted by the majority of the people - therefore she had better get one quick - lol.
Make happy those who are near and those who are far will come!

turtle
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 865
Joined: Sun 25 Nov 2012 10:44 am

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 206 of 308 in Discussion

Post by turtle »

waddo wrote:Nothing will change, the UK will leave the EU in a major crash out. This because the "People" have spoken and they hold the country not only to ransom but they also will have the responsibility for everything that follows on after the 29th of March - be it good or bad. Over the cliff we go! - lol.
Have to disagree, I for one wouldn't fear any no deal leave...all this catastrophic over the cliff sinking into a swap BS simply does not wash....all remainers are coming up with derogatory words but its funny how they never back it up with any facts ? The months of frustration from the remain side has done more damage to our country and economy that any no deal could ever do .

EnjoyingTheSun
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 3387
Joined: Fri 16 Mar 2018 4:46 pm

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 207 of 308 in Discussion

Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

waz-24-7 wrote:
EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
waz-24-7 wrote:
The EU, taken as a whole is the UK's largest trading partner. In 2017, UK exports to the EU were £274 billion (44% of all UK exports). UK imports from the EU were £341 billion (53% of all UK imports).30 Nov 2018
Waz will answer it more detail when I get more time re the %s though they are a bit of a self fulfilling prorphesy.

I'm guessing you got your figures from;

https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk ... y/CBP-7851

Did you miss that the percentage of exports had fallen from 55% in 2006 to 44% or left it out deliberately?
A more relevant figure is that in the same period the EU share of Foreign Direct Investment has fallen from 46% to 33% so looks like the world in general is moving on from the EU.

I don't mind if they are honest and say this is a political project and will cost you a shed load of money so vote in or out based on that but to say it is to our economic advantage isn't true.

Figures are very generally available in the public domain for sure.
If Indeed the decline in figures that you have discovered are correct. That is no reason at all to BREXIT and hinder further any trade with the Union.
What is certain in my mind and indeed many is that the UK economy will be severely hit post 29th March . Particularly if we crash out without a deal.

I really would like your take ….DEAL (rubbish as it is) or NO DEAL( catastrophic certainly) or let the people decide. (the democratic way)
If you do not think the decline is correct then please educate me.

I assume you didn't bother to read that Matt Ridley article, might put your mind at rest re a no deal.

A lot of our trade is with the EU. Before we joined 40 odd percent of our trade was with the Commonwealth and 30% for the whole of Europe so as we had to put up tariffs against non-EU countries and have the EU helping us in the negotiation for trade deals our trade with the rest of the world declined.
There's a surprise and the self fulfilling prophesy. If you close down the town's Sainsbury it won't be much of a surprise that you buy more from the remaining Tesco.
It isn't that complicated.
Our fishermen complain about the EU so the remainers say there are only 10-12,000 of them. There were a lot more before the EU put a size 12 through our fishing industry. A self fulfilling prophesy.

Even though the fashion is to be less insular and be global we will only trade with our next door neighbours? And the leavers are the stick in the muds here?

Re trading in the future with the EU, they put 6% tariffs on our goods. No problem, the value of the pound against the Euro has gone down by more than that so it wont produce a fall in demand. Basic economics.
The EU will try to punish us with draconian rules? We take it up with the WTO and win. Remember they have to be a bit careful, they don't wont to upset a 6o odd billion pound customer.

The EU is in decline there is no evidence that shows otherwise.
When the UK joined we had much the same living standard as the 6 countries already in the Common Market. Now in the bid for domination they pretty much want everyone to join. Never forget it is a political project.
The new joiners are nice but it means that countries with weak or backward economies join the Euro and either decline themselves or drag down the EU with them.
Remember the football analogy? Love to have Messi not that keen on his 9 blind fat mates.

As for percentages of our trade what does it matter in a declining zone or industry?
I'm sure that after a few years of cars one firm making horse drawn carriages probably had 90% of the business as the others went out of business. The fact they were now selling probably 10% of what they did before cars would be a less impressive statistic.

Re our negotiations and the no deal, did you watch Question Time the other night? Well worth it if only to see the latest Dianne Abbacus car crash. Apparently she was picked on because of racism and sexism, the usual nonsense she pulls.
I think it was more a case that the BBC forgot to load the audience as usual.
The other woman on the panel asked her, when you buy a house or car do you tell the other person that you are going to pay whatever they ask and wont leave until you have bought their car or house? If you do, don't be surprised if the deal you are offered isn't that great.
Again it isn't complicated.
Some businesses will thrive when we leave because of less regulations and red tape. Some will fail because maybe they aren't in that great a condition and kept afloat by protectionism. Keeping failing businesses afloat is a sure fire way to go skint. Close and do something else. Accept horse drawn carriages are a thing of the past.

EnjoyingTheSun
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 3387
Joined: Fri 16 Mar 2018 4:46 pm

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 208 of 308 in Discussion

Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

turtle wrote:
waddo wrote:Nothing will change, the UK will leave the EU in a major crash out. This because the "People" have spoken and they hold the country not only to ransom but they also will have the responsibility for everything that follows on after the 29th of March - be it good or bad. Over the cliff we go! - lol.
Have to disagree, I for one wouldn't fear any no deal leave...all this catastrophic over the cliff sinking into a swap BS simply does not wash....all remainers are coming up with derogatory words but its funny how they never back it up with any facts ? The months of frustration from the remain side has done more damage to our country and economy that any no deal could ever do .
There will be bumps in the road but we will survive and then thrive. Some will have to grow some backbone is all.

Personally it will be better for me personally if we stay in the EU. I'm not really that tied into the UK economy so any less freedom of movement will be more of a hinderence than watching our economy fall off a cliff.

I want us to leave because I do not want us to be a state I am patriotic enough to want to remain a country. I am not frightened against voting against the status quo because with the EU constantly evolving we don't know what the status quo is. I am not a little Englander, I wish to be a member of the World not just Europe. And economically it makes sense for us to trade more freely with the rest of the world than limit ourselves to our immediate neighbours.

EnjoyingTheSun
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 3387
Joined: Fri 16 Mar 2018 4:46 pm

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 209 of 308 in Discussion

Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

As Waz likes history so much lets have a little history lesson.

In 1959 Singapore became an internally self-governing state within the Commonwealth.
After a few years they felt future lay with Malaya due to strong ties between the two nations. It was thought that the merger would benefit the economy by creating a common market which will support new industries, thus solving the ongoing unemployment woes in Singapore.

Any of this ringing a bell?

In July 1963 the Federation of Malaysia was formed comprising Singapore, Malaya, Sarawak and North Borneo. The terms included the margins of Singapore's autonomy, Singapore's political representation in the federal government, the status of Singapore citizens and Singapore’s revenue contribution to the federal government. Prior to the signing of the Malaysia Agreement in London, there was a week of “arduous and gruelling negotiations” over the more thorny issues of a common market between Singapore and Malaya, and the portion of Singapore’s revenue and taxes that would go to the federal government. With these issues settled, Singapore began its journey as part of Malaysia.

How are those bells? Am I the only one seeing parallels here?

Two years later In 1965 Singapore separated from Malaysia to become an independent and sovereign state. The separation was the result of deep political and economic differences between the ruling parties of Singapore and Malaysia.
Sexit?

At the time everyone didn't think little old Singapore could survive on their own.
No deal??????

Now a country with a population of less than 6 million has one of the five highest GDP per capita in the World and though you will raise the hackles of the left every time you bring up their name Singapore are an economic success.

Between 1965 and 1995, growth rates averaged around 6 per cent per annum.

The Singaporean economy is known as one of the freest, most innovative, most competitive, most dynamic and most business-friendly.
According to the Corruption Perceptions Index, Singapore is consistently perceived as one of the least corrupt countries in the world, along with New Zealand and the Scandinavian countries.
Singapore is the only Asian country an AAA credit rating and attracts a large amount of foreign investment as a result of its location, skilled workforce, low tax rates, advanced infrastructure and zero-tolerance against corruption. Singapore has the world's eleventh largest foreign reserves.

Wonder what would have happened if they hadn't have been brave and stayed tied to the Federation of Malaysia?

User avatar
waz-24-7
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 988
Joined: Sun 24 Aug 2014 2:37 pm

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 210 of 308 in Discussion

Post by waz-24-7 »

ETS
History is exactly that its gone and in the past,
The modern world moves forward at an alarming rate.
Modern technology has made the world very small indeed.

I wonder how you think turning our back on our largest customer can possibly lead to prosperity.
You clearly have not been a shopkeeper or been in sales.
Superstore UK just like any needs to attract and hold on to customers ,. Not turn them away because we think their government is corrupt or inefficient.

EnjoyingTheSun
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 3387
Joined: Fri 16 Mar 2018 4:46 pm

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 211 of 308 in Discussion

Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

waz-24-7 wrote:ETS
History is exactly that its gone and in the past,
The modern world moves forward at an alarming rate.
Modern technology has made the world very small indeed.

I wonder how you think turning our back on our largest customer can possibly lead to prosperity.
You clearly have not been a shopkeeper or been in sales.
Superstore UK just like any needs to attract and hold on to customers ,. Not turn them away because we think their government is corrupt or inefficient.
You are the one who continually brings up history. The fact that it has generally proven the opposite to what you thought it would is the reason you don't want to discuss history now.

Yes the modern world does move at an alarming rate which is why it doesn't make much sense to saddle ourselves in a group that takes 10-30 years to settle trade deals.

Yes the world is smaller so why do we need to concentrate on trading with our next door neighbours?

They are our largest customer because they made us turn away from our largest customers. Those ex customers have grown faster and continue to grow faster than the EU so lets get them back and share in their prosperity rather than help prop up whatever economic basket case the EU decides to let join next to complete their project.

You are clearly wrong.

You seem to keep overlooking that as far as the EU is concerned, we are the customer. We are running a 60 odd billion deficit. Sure it makes perfect sense to keep pouring money into something that you think might be inefficient and corrupt.

User avatar
waddo
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 3891
Joined: Sun 13 May 2012 7:21 am

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 212 of 308 in Discussion

Post by waddo »

No, you miss the point. I don’t really care if the UK stays or leaves. Brexit has used up more time and money in the last two years than any normal working person could make or enjoy in a lifetime and for what? UK has a government of people who can not agree on anything now, do you really trust them to be able to meet the lies told about what would happen after the UK left the EU or even those that were told would happen if it stayed in? Nobody knows what would happen either way, so there is no point in discusing it anyway - just wait and see then everyone can say “I told you this would happen”! Unless you can say exactly what will happen on leaving the EU then it is just Project Dream and the end is not yet in sight.
Make happy those who are near and those who are far will come!

User avatar
waz-24-7
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 988
Joined: Sun 24 Aug 2014 2:37 pm

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 213 of 308 in Discussion

Post by waz-24-7 »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
waz-24-7 wrote:ETS
History is exactly that its gone and in the past,
The modern world moves forward at an alarming rate.
Modern technology has made the world very small indeed.

I wonder how you think turning our back on our largest customer can possibly lead to prosperity.
You clearly have not been a shopkeeper or been in sales.
Superstore UK just like any needs to attract and hold on to customers ,. Not turn them away because we think their government is corrupt or inefficient.
You are the one who continually brings up history. The fact that it has generally proven the opposite to what you thought it would is the reason you don't want to discuss history now.

Yes the modern world does move at an alarming rate which is why it doesn't make much sense to saddle ourselves in a group that takes 10-30 years to settle trade deals.

Yes the world is smaller so why do we need to concentrate on trading with our next door neighbours?

They are our largest customer because they made us turn away from our largest customers. Those ex customers have grown faster and continue to grow faster than the EU so lets get them back and share in their prosperity rather than help prop up whatever economic basket case the EU decides to let join next to complete their project.

You are clearly wrong.

You seem to keep overlooking that as far as the EU is concerned, we are the customer. We are running a 60 odd billion deficit. Sure it makes perfect sense to keep pouring money into something that you think might be inefficient and corrupt.

Hmmm,
The EU is our largest and most important trading partner because we have a very strong and free trading platform. They are our closest neighbor and UK businesses are trading in the EU, visiting and generally working very closely with Europeans as friends and partners.
Lets also be clear. The EU does not want the UK to depart for exactly the same reasons. That why Brexit is a lose and lose scenario. Furthermore its not a war or even a competition. BREXIT is a divergence of co operation, friendship and co existence. Please believe me. I am in Europe almost every other week and the consensus of most is WHY!!

Your defeatist view over an EU administration rethink will prove many times more expensive that your worries over the UK contributions.

I think you are a crash out and burn supporter. Would I be correct?

Upon my own historical references. I refer only to co operation and peace. This has prevailed in Europe since 1945 and the Union strengthens this status.
Mankind's hunger for wealth and power does not change with history and that is why we live in a world, in part, at war, or threat of war and strife. Economic history is dictated by the ability to chase the $ and power shifts with this ability and its successful outcome

turtle
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 865
Joined: Sun 25 Nov 2012 10:44 am

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 214 of 308 in Discussion

Post by turtle »

What is this Crash & Burn crap...
Surely A crash is an accident which Brexit is no accident and burn is..... well what is it exactly

User avatar
waz-24-7
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 988
Joined: Sun 24 Aug 2014 2:37 pm

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 215 of 308 in Discussion

Post by waz-24-7 »

turtle wrote:What is this Crash & Burn crap...
Surely A crash is an accident which Brexit is no accident and burn is..... well what is it exactly
CRASH ...to leave (crash out) the EU with no deal or agreement . Verified by the UK Parliament as not a viable option and probably (in my view) the opinion of British people too.

BURN... To destroy ( as burn and set on fire) any current deal, trade agreements. Another no no in the view of the UK parliament and also (in my view) the British people.

User avatar
PoshinDevon
Kibkom Mod
Kibkom Mod
Posts: 2281
Joined: Wed 04 Apr 2012 6:32 pm

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 216 of 308 in Discussion

Post by PoshinDevon »

Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass,it's about learning to dance in the rain

Peterborough Utd -The Posh

Mowgli597
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 715
Joined: Mon 04 Apr 2016 2:57 pm

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 217 of 308 in Discussion

Post by Mowgli597 »


User avatar
waddo
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 3891
Joined: Sun 13 May 2012 7:21 am

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 218 of 308 in Discussion

Post by waddo »

Posh/Mowgli - Lies, damn lies and statistics! Is the country split - no/yes/maybe. Depends which "Statistics" you read, when and who put them forward I guess. Leave it to those in charge but never forget that those in charge will always have somebody else to blame if it goes wrong and will perform the back slappers dance if it goes well!

I note that the SBA's and the RoC and the UK Government are trying to arrange a deal amongst themselves and just wonder how that will work? Looking at the map and the lines of the Green Line along with the SBA areas, it seems that if Brexit happens you could - being a holder of a UK passport - still be able to drive through the SBA (Customs & Excise) check point down into Dhekelia to either get buried or have fish and chips - whichever being the case Then again maybe this facility will only apply to those non EU citizens who wear uniform (or their dependents) and in that case will they also be allowed off the SBA areas to perform their normal day tasks - like take the kids to school, go shopping in the EU, etc, etc? Interesting things are happening on the Island at this time and I look forward to how it will be managed and who/what will be excluded here - after all this is the North Cyprus Forum and this is about what will happen to us here!
Make happy those who are near and those who are far will come!

EnjoyingTheSun
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 3387
Joined: Fri 16 Mar 2018 4:46 pm

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 219 of 308 in Discussion

Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

waz-24-7 wrote: Hmmm,
The EU is our largest and most important trading partner because we have a very strong and free trading platform. They are our closest neighbor and UK businesses are trading in the EU, visiting and generally working very closely with Europeans as friends and partners.
Covered that but you brushed it off. The EU is our largest trading partner because they have ensured that they have to be.
We aren’t moving further away and can still trade with them and be friends. I want us to leave the club which intends to take over our way of life not nuke them.
waz-24-7 wrote: Lets also be clear. The EU does not want the UK to depart for exactly the same reasons.
In addition to needing our contributions and if we leave and do well then there will be a mass exodus.
waz-24-7 wrote:
Your defeatist view over an EU administration rethink will prove many times more expensive that your worries over the UK contributions.
It’s not defeatist it is realistic.
waz-24-7 wrote: I think you are a crash out and burn supporter. Would I be correct?
A nonsense label. I favour leaving yes. Actually leaving not staying in the team in a different coloured shirt.
I don’t want to leave but rubber stamp every EU law and regulation. Accept the jurisdiction of the ECJ and have no control over our borders and eventually our currency. I also don’t think our contributions into the budget represent good value for money.
It would be better to walk away with a compromise but I’m prepared to walk away with no deal because the consequences won’t be as bad as remaining or getting a bad deal. Because I have that attitude I guarantee I’d get better terms than you would.
waz-24-7 wrote: Upon my own historical references. I refer only to co operation and peace. This has prevailed in Europe since 1945 and the Union strengthens this status
So you didn’t credit the EU with Britain’s economic recovery in the 1970s and pretty much every other good thing that has happened?
You do know had Hitler had one he would have created an organization pretty much exactly like the EU.
Let’s wrap this up honestly Waz. You have a business that you believe will suffer because of Brexit. I wish you well and hope you thrive but please stop all this everyone else is stupid, racist and selfish nonsense and that your main driver to remain is world peace.
Just say all I am interested in is my business which I have tied totally to the EU and I’m worried.
I’ll have a lot more respect for that.

turtle
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 865
Joined: Sun 25 Nov 2012 10:44 am

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 220 of 308 in Discussion

Post by turtle »

We covered that a few months ago ETS but as usual he swerved this question as usual ?.

User avatar
waz-24-7
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 988
Joined: Sun 24 Aug 2014 2:37 pm

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 221 of 308 in Discussion

Post by waz-24-7 »

turtle wrote:We covered that a few months ago ETS but as usual he swerved this question as usual ?.
I'm assuming you refer to my interest in remaining from a business prospective.

By enlarge YES.
Businesses in the UK and elsewhere EMPLOY people and employed people generally have the opportunity to prosper and improve.
When people lose their jobs or earn less money then they do NOT prosper.

Like it or not to withdraw from your largest trading partner is hardly likely to prove prosperous unless of course you have another partner lined up.
Its like leaving a job in the hope you'll get another one soon , meanwhile you have NO income. The World is not lining up to offer an alternative to EU trade.

turtle
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 865
Joined: Sun 25 Nov 2012 10:44 am

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 222 of 308 in Discussion

Post by turtle »

Waz I note there was no comment about joining the Euro by 2025 ?... yet another swerve.

User avatar
waz-24-7
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 988
Joined: Sun 24 Aug 2014 2:37 pm

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 223 of 308 in Discussion

Post by waz-24-7 »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
waz-24-7 wrote: Hmmm,
The EU is our largest and most important trading partner because we have a very strong and free trading platform. They are our closest neighbor and UK businesses are trading in the EU, visiting and generally working very closely with Europeans as friends and partners.
Covered that but you brushed it off. The EU is our largest trading partner because they have ensured that they have to be.
We aren’t moving further away and can still trade with them and be friends. I want us to leave the club which intends to take over our way of life not nuke them.
waz-24-7 wrote: Lets also be clear. The EU does not want the UK to depart for exactly the same reasons.
In addition to needing our contributions and if we leave and do well then there will be a mass exodus.
waz-24-7 wrote:
Your defeatist view over an EU administration rethink will prove many times more expensive that your worries over the UK contributions.
It’s not defeatist it is realistic.
waz-24-7 wrote: I think you are a crash out and burn supporter. Would I be correct?
A nonsense label. I favour leaving yes. Actually leaving not staying in the team in a different coloured shirt.
I don’t want to leave but rubber stamp every EU law and regulation. Accept the jurisdiction of the ECJ and have no control over our borders and eventually our currency. I also don’t think our contributions into the budget represent good value for money.
It would be better to walk away with a compromise but I’m prepared to walk away with no deal because the consequences won’t be as bad as remaining or getting a bad deal. Because I have that attitude I guarantee I’d get better terms than you would.
waz-24-7 wrote: Upon my own historical references. I refer only to co operation and peace. This has prevailed in Europe since 1945 and the Union strengthens this status
So you didn’t credit the EU with Britain’s economic recovery in the 1970s and pretty much every other good thing that has happened?
You do know had Hitler had one he would have created an organization pretty much exactly like the EU.
Let’s wrap this up honestly Waz. You have a business that you believe will suffer because of Brexit. I wish you well and hope you thrive but please stop all this everyone else is stupid, racist and selfish nonsense and that your main driver to remain is world peace.
Just say all I am interested in is my business which I have tied totally to the EU and I’m worried.
I’ll have a lot more respect for that.
Your counter statements are lacking credibility.
You appear to believe that the EU is represented by the administrators and politicians. The EU is full of good citizens and people....just like the UK.
I am absolutely certain the People and businesses of Europe would like the UK to remain in the Union.
Hitler leader of Europe....a totalitarian indeed.
The Union is nothing like Hitler's Europe. I'm amazed you make the parallel .

Indeed like all of us I am concerned about my own welfare. That's not a crime. Also however the strength of union between the peoples of Europe is also important to me. Peace in Europe prevails and friendship and co operation has flourished. The choice of many Uk people to move away and outwards from that bond is disappointing and saddens me.

User avatar
waz-24-7
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 988
Joined: Sun 24 Aug 2014 2:37 pm

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 224 of 308 in Discussion

Post by waz-24-7 »

turtle wrote:Waz I note there was no comment about joining the Euro by 2025 ?... yet another swerve.
I'm not in favour of joining the Euro currency. No advantage and of little consequence right now I think.

EnjoyingTheSun
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 3387
Joined: Fri 16 Mar 2018 4:46 pm

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 225 of 308 in Discussion

Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

waz-24-7 wrote:
Your counter statements are lacking credibility.
You appear to believe that the EU is represented by the administrators and politicians. The EU is full of good citizens and people....just like the UK.
I am absolutely certain the People and businesses of Europe would like the UK to remain in the Union.
Hitler leader of Europe....a totalitarian indeed.
The Union is nothing like Hitler's Europe. I'm amazed you make the parallel .

Indeed like all of us I am concerned about my own welfare. That's not a crime. Also however the strength of union between the peoples of Europe is also important to me. Peace in Europe prevails and friendship and co operation has flourished. The choice of many Uk people to move away and outwards from that bond is disappointing and saddens me.
Your arguments are lacking in reality.

The EU is full of great people, it is run by administrators and politicians.

A lot of the people of Europe want their own country out of the union. But I'm sure they want us to remain in, who wants the drunk guy in the pub buying all the drinks to go home?
Re Hitler, look up Hitler and the European Economic Area. They had a meeting about it in Berlin 1942. Its the EU with fancier uniforms.

EnjoyingTheSun
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 3387
Joined: Fri 16 Mar 2018 4:46 pm

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 226 of 308 in Discussion

Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

waz-24-7 wrote:
turtle wrote:Waz I note there was no comment about joining the Euro by 2025 ?... yet another swerve.
I'm not in favour of joining the Euro currency. No advantage and of little consequence right now I think.
I'm sure they will check with you Waz before they bounce us into it. Glad your not in favour that will stop it.

You honestly think we wouldn't be joining the Euro or as a people have any say?

kerry 6138
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 1006
Joined: Mon 05 Oct 2015 6:38 pm

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 227 of 308 in Discussion

Post by kerry 6138 »

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada ... -1.4973281

The United Kingdom's high commissioner to Canada says informal talks that could lead to a U.K.-Canada free trade deal in as little as a year are underway — which could ease the economic uncertainty surrounding her country's fraught debate over when and how it will exit the European Union.

https://www.ustrademonitor.com/2018/10/ ... nd-the-uk/

Yesterday, the Office of the U.S. Trade Representative (“USTR”) officially notified Congress that it would be launching separate trade discussions with the European Union, Japan, and the United Kingdom.

https://news.sky.com/story/free-trade-t ... s-10734819

Indeed, the Australian finance minister, Mathias Corman, told me informal trade talks were already under way, and that a trade deal could be concluded "very quickly".

As it happens, Australia is a past master at fast trade negotiations. While many countries take many years to talk through these things, Australia negotiated a free trade agreement with the US in less than a year.

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2019/0 ... ou-decide/

Brexit Boost: New Zealand PM Vows to Stand by Britain ‘Whatever You Decide’ 20 Jan 2019
The Prime Minister of New Zealand has vowed her country will stand by Britain after Brexit, encouraging it to leave the EU on terms which will allow the Kiwis to deepen their commercial ties to the mother country.

https://kwm.com/en/knowledge/insights/c ... d-20181130
A fixation on compliance with the regulations of the institutions of the European Union and the EU single market may have meant that for the last few decades, the UK has punched below its weight in other faster growing markets around the world. First and foremost, amongst these markets is China, the home to the world’s second largest economy – no other economy has grown faster and created more wealth in the last 20 years than the “Middle Kingdom”.
The UK is China’s second largest trading partner inside the European Union but only around 10th globally.
The British have the British Council and BritCham is the longest running Chamber of Commerce in Shanghai (recently celebrating its centenary). Accordingly the UK has excellent infrastructure in place but the question is whether British business back home adequately tap into it?

User avatar
waz-24-7
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 988
Joined: Sun 24 Aug 2014 2:37 pm

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 228 of 308 in Discussion

Post by waz-24-7 »

kerry 6138 wrote:https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada ... -1.4973281

The United Kingdom's high commissioner to Canada says informal talks that could lead to a U.K.-Canada free trade deal in as little as a year are underway — which could ease the economic uncertainty surrounding her country's fraught debate over when and how it will exit the European Union.

https://www.ustrademonitor.com/2018/10/ ... nd-the-uk/

Yesterday, the Office of the U.S. Trade Representative (“USTR”) officially notified Congress that it would be launching separate trade discussions with the European Union, Japan, and the United Kingdom.

https://news.sky.com/story/free-trade-t ... s-10734819

Indeed, the Australian finance minister, Mathias Corman, told me informal trade talks were already under way, and that a trade deal could be concluded "very quickly".

As it happens, Australia is a past master at fast trade negotiations. While many countries take many years to talk through these things, Australia negotiated a free trade agreement with the US in less than a year.

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2019/0 ... ou-decide/

Brexit Boost: New Zealand PM Vows to Stand by Britain ‘Whatever You Decide’ 20 Jan 2019
The Prime Minister of New Zealand has vowed her country will stand by Britain after Brexit, encouraging it to leave the EU on terms which will allow the Kiwis to deepen their commercial ties to the mother country.

https://kwm.com/en/knowledge/insights/c ... d-20181130
A fixation on compliance with the regulations of the institutions of the European Union and the EU single market may have meant that for the last few decades, the UK has punched below its weight in other faster growing markets around the world. First and foremost, amongst these markets is China, the home to the world’s second largest economy – no other economy has grown faster and created more wealth in the last 20 years than the “Middle Kingdom”.
The UK is China’s second largest trading partner inside the European Union but only around 10th globally.
The British have the British Council and BritCham is the longest running Chamber of Commerce in Shanghai (recently celebrating its centenary). Accordingly the UK has excellent infrastructure in place but the question is whether British business back home adequately tap into it?
Thank you Kerry for these snippets of positive news.
Of course the UK department of trade and Industry (DTI) has been active for many years in promoting international trade and promoting the UK abroad.
One should never exclude customers ( EU) on the basis that you can find others easily. This is the distinct possibility that presents itself currently.
As I have said and as many UK businesses are acutely aware of. The EU is our biggest and most important customer and I and all UK businesses trading in the EU are very keen to maintain our current trading relationships.
Of course we are encouraged by heads of states, business leaders and others who want to assist the DTI in securing more business for the UK. But not at the detriment of our current EU customer base that has been developed and nurtured over decades.

User avatar
waz-24-7
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 988
Joined: Sun 24 Aug 2014 2:37 pm

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 229 of 308 in Discussion

Post by waz-24-7 »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
waz-24-7 wrote:
Your counter statements are lacking credibility.
You appear to believe that the EU is represented by the administrators and politicians. The EU is full of good citizens and people....just like the UK.
I am absolutely certain the People and businesses of Europe would like the UK to remain in the Union.
Hitler leader of Europe....a totalitarian indeed.
The Union is nothing like Hitler's Europe. I'm amazed you make the parallel .

Indeed like all of us I am concerned about my own welfare. That's not a crime. Also however the strength of union between the peoples of Europe is also important to me. Peace in Europe prevails and friendship and co operation has flourished. The choice of many Uk people to move away and outwards from that bond is disappointing and saddens me.
Your arguments are lacking in reality.

The EU is full of great people, it is run by administrators and politicians.

A lot of the people of Europe want their own country out of the union. But I'm sure they want us to remain in, who wants the drunk guy in the pub buying all the drinks to go home?
Re Hitler, look up Hitler and the European Economic Area. They had a meeting about it in Berlin 1942. Its the EU with fancier uniforms.
Perhaps the European Army will rise up under a new Hitler based in Brussels. Russia will attack pearl harbor.
The RAF will re launch the spitfire to protect us from the looming invasion. The USA will move troops into the UK and we'll invade Europe again in order to save them from themselves. Peace at last !!

kerry 6138
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 1006
Joined: Mon 05 Oct 2015 6:38 pm

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 230 of 308 in Discussion

Post by kerry 6138 »

https://worldhistory.us/european-histor ... -union.php

the earliest roots of today’s EU to French industrialist Louis Loucher’s ideas for integrating the French and German coal and steel industries, put forward at the Paris Peace conference in 1919. This was to take effect in 1925 with the ‘International Steel Arrangement’ covering the steel industries of France, Germany, Belgium and Luxembourg. During the 1920s, politicians and intellectuals produced a number of papers advocating a United States of Europe, all based on intergovernmental cooperation. Such ideas influenced and led the way for Jean Monnet to pioneer what has now become the EU.
the Nazis were working to form European community from the early 1940s when they realised they would likely lose the war. According to Christopher Story, the Nazi’s set up the German Geopolitical Centre in 1942 as a think-tank to produce a long-range strategy to take over Europe in the event that they would lose the war, and their ideas were set out in the Europaische Wirtschaftsgemeinschaft, or European Economic Community (EEC) published in 1942, during a conference at the University of Berlin

regardless of whether the EU is a direct creation of the Nazis, there are definitely some Nazi connections to the EU. Walter Hallstein, the first President of the European Commission, had been a member of both the Bund Nationalsozialistischer Deutscher Juristen (Association of National Socialist German Lawyers) and the Nazi Rechtswahrer Organisation.

Paul Henri-Spaak, one of the founders of the EEC, openly described himself as a national socialist and considered Hitler’s achievements ‘magnificant.’

Leaked documents from the 1955 Bilderberg conference in Germany reveal that delegates here were planning to create a European Union with a single currency. One of the founders of the Bilderberg group was Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands, a former Nazi SS officer

User avatar
waz-24-7
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 988
Joined: Sun 24 Aug 2014 2:37 pm

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 231 of 308 in Discussion

Post by waz-24-7 »

Thankyou Kerry,
I doubt if this history lesson will be on the UK Parliamentary agenda for discussion as they desperately try to find a way forward from current deadlock.

More likely to be discussion on the dangers to Ireland of a backstop.
The clear objection to a no deal exit.
The time pressing need to agree a deal. Customs union, single market economy, freedom of movement.

turtle
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 865
Joined: Sun 25 Nov 2012 10:44 am

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 232 of 308 in Discussion

Post by turtle »

waz-24-7 wrote:
turtle wrote:Waz I note there was no comment about joining the Euro by 2025 ?... yet another swerve.
I'm not in favour of joining the Euro currency. No advantage and of little consequence right now I think.
Of little consequence right now......are you for real the UK could be forced to take the Euro in less than 6 years and that is of no consequence this is a single reason to take a no deal right now if ever i heard one.

kerry 6138
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 1006
Joined: Mon 05 Oct 2015 6:38 pm

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 233 of 308 in Discussion

Post by kerry 6138 »

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Germanic_Reich

The ultimate goal of the Gleichschaltung policy pursued in these parts of occupied Europe was to destroy the very concepts of individual states and nationalities, just as the concept of a separate Austrian state and national identity was repressed after the Anschluss through the establishment of new state and party districts.[38] The new empire was to no longer be a nation-state of the type that had emerged in the 19th century,

https://pjmedia.com/trending/chancellor ... to-the-eu/

German Chancellor Angela Merkel gave a very troubling speech yesterday to the Konrad Adenauer Foundation in Berlin where she said, “Nation states must today be prepared to give up their sovereignty” and that the will of the people on issues like immigration and border security doesn't matter.

French President Emmanuel Macron recently said something similar:

Her words echo recent comments by the deeply unpopular French President Emmanuel Macron who stated in a Remembrance Day speech that “ patriotism is the exact opposite of nationalism [because] nationalism is treason.”
The French president’s words were deeply unpopular with the French population and his approval rating nosedived even further after the comments.


https://www.politico.eu/article/angela- ... ment-nato/

STRASBOURG — German Chancellor Angela Merkel on Tuesday endorsed the creation of an EU army, siding with French President Emmanuel Macron whose similar call in recent days

User avatar
waz-24-7
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 988
Joined: Sun 24 Aug 2014 2:37 pm

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 234 of 308 in Discussion

Post by waz-24-7 »

turtle wrote:
waz-24-7 wrote:
turtle wrote:Waz I note there was no comment about joining the Euro by 2025 ?... yet another swerve.
I'm not in favour of joining the Euro currency. No advantage and of little consequence right now I think.
Of little consequence right now......are you for real the UK could be forced to take the Euro in less than 6 years and that is of no consequence this is a single reason to take a no deal right now if ever i heard one.

Sorry T
are you for real. The Euro is not on the agenda at all. A deal has been negotiated. The Euro is NOT part of that deal.

Not withstanding that fact.

The UK currency is sterling £.
How would the EU force the Euro onto the UK?

kerry 6138
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 1006
Joined: Mon 05 Oct 2015 6:38 pm

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 235 of 308 in Discussion

Post by kerry 6138 »

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/eco ... -euro.html

When the euro was first agreed, the UK and Denmark “opted out”. But at that stage that only meant they were not joining at the start. There was never intended to be any long-term form of EU membership that did not include euro membership. The UK did not say “never” to begin with, and all new EU members since the euro began in 1999 have had to commit to joining. Indeed, by 2020, all but five member states of the EU are due to be euro members and Poland is likely to join by then as well, leaving just the UK, Denmark, Sweden and Bulgaria outside.

That means that at some point, perhaps shortly after 2020, with the Eurozone constituted as a confederate Single European State and wanting to use the institution of the EU as its institutions — the European Parliament as its confederation-level Parliament, the Commission as its civil service and so on — the residual nugatory non-Eurozone EU will have to be wound up.

The most likely course is for it to be fused together with the non-EU members of what is called the “European Economic Area” (Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein). The Single European State will set the rules for the Single Market, and the other members of the European Economic Area will be welcome to trade with each other and with the Single European State provided they abide by those rules.

User avatar
erol
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 3263
Joined: Tue 01 May 2012 7:14 pm

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 236 of 308 in Discussion

Post by erol »

At this stage I would just like to know what is going to happen before the day it happens.

turtle
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 865
Joined: Sun 25 Nov 2012 10:44 am

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 237 of 308 in Discussion

Post by turtle »

I'm not in favour of joining the Euro currency. No advantage and of little consequence right now I think.[/quote]

Of little consequence right now......are you for real the UK could be forced to take the Euro in less than 6 years and that is of no consequence this is a single reason to take a no deal right now if ever i heard one.[/quote]


Sorry T
are you for real. The Euro is not on the agenda at all. A deal has been negotiated. The Euro is NOT part of that deal.

Not withstanding that fact.

The UK currency is sterling £.

Thought so.....Deluded.!
Last edited by turtle on Tue 22 Jan 2019 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

turtle
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 865
Joined: Sun 25 Nov 2012 10:44 am

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 238 of 308 in Discussion

Post by turtle »

erol wrote:At this stage I would just like to know what is going to happen before the day it happens.
Anybody's guess I would say.

EnjoyingTheSun
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 3387
Joined: Fri 16 Mar 2018 4:46 pm

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 239 of 308 in Discussion

Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

waz-24-7 wrote: Perhaps the European Army will rise up
What European Army? Wasn’t that a leave lie?
https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/op ... -1-9447331
waz-24-7 wrote: I'm not in favour of joining the Euro currency.
But you obviously would have been at the time, like a good European. Did you join in the sneers from the experts that not joining was going to be a disaster? OK lets brush that off because this time those same experts and you are right, Brexit will be a disaster?

So now you are not in favour of the Euro because with hindsight to say you are would make you look a complete retard. You cannot contemplate any circumstances that the euro will be forced upon us either by the EU bullying us or an idiot like Tony Bliar taking us in?

Obviously you will body swerve that question so here is an easy one. If the EU allow us to cancel Brexit but the price is to take the Euro are you still against the Euro?

I ask because when you talk about mans greed and how it causes war and how the EU has stopped war, all that nonsense. What you overlook is the one thing that is absolutely needed to cause a war. The side that is getting bullied to have a backbone. If they roll over there isn’t a war.

You like your history when you can rewrite it but let’s remind you of 1938. France and England threw Czechoslovakia to the wolves. No one can doubt that. It is one of the more shameful parts of our recent history and a huge mistake.
Pretty much all historians accept that had they stood up to Hitler he would have backed off.

Do you remember how Chamberlain was cheered when he came back with his bit of white paper? Can you imagine what the opinion polls would have been at the time? I can easily imagine that when we did declare war over Poland it wouldn’t have been that hard to poll a dissenting majority. Can you point to Poland on a map? Do you want millions of our people to die over Poland. Not hard to imagine.
I think some would have seen the writing on the wall by the time Germany invaded France but many politicians were still pushing for a negotiated peace.

I’m not bringing any of this up because I hate the Germans or trying to re-run the war but what I am trying to illustrate is people take the easy path and look short term. There were probably some businessmen in 1939 who did a lot of trade with Germany.

So let’s be honest Waz you aren’t that selective, you will want to be in the EU under any conditions to prop up your business.

turtle
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 865
Joined: Sun 25 Nov 2012 10:44 am

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 240 of 308 in Discussion

Post by turtle »

waz-24-7 wrote: The UK currency is sterling £.
How would the EU force the Euro onto the UK?
And you really have to ask that question ?.

EnjoyingTheSun
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 3387
Joined: Fri 16 Mar 2018 4:46 pm

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 241 of 308 in Discussion

Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

turtle wrote:
waz-24-7 wrote: The UK currency is sterling £.
How would the EU force the Euro onto the UK?
And you really have to ask that question ?.
In Waz world it won't happen until he personally agrees it. Should he be the only one to vote for it and everyone else says no we will keep voting.
Whilst I don't want the Euro even I understand that the EU can't really work as envisaged until all members are in the Euro.
He doesn't seem to grasp that when we opted out it was a comma not a full stop.

User avatar
waz-24-7
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 988
Joined: Sun 24 Aug 2014 2:37 pm

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 242 of 308 in Discussion

Post by waz-24-7 »

On the basis and currently we retain £ sterling. I cannot see how some clearly think the Euro could be forced onto the UK.

Now given the unlikelihood of this. It is fair for me to pass comment.
Sterling is no longer the force it used to be within the global currency and economics market.
The $, EURO, YEN, take the lead.
The UK trades offshore in mainly these currencies and the cost to UK business and economy is large as money markets capitalize on the exchange mechanisms.

I would be quite happy in fact to seriously consider use of the EURO or the US$. Many businesses in the UK hold EURO and $ accounts for international trade. Travelers are forced to exchange the good old £ into more acceptable currencies at significant cost for the privilege.

What indeed is so special about the UK £?

turtle
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 865
Joined: Sun 25 Nov 2012 10:44 am

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 243 of 308 in Discussion

Post by turtle »

turtle wrote:
erol wrote:At this stage I would just like to know what is going to happen before the day it happens.
Anybody's guess I would say.
But one thing is for sure things will carry on as normal for 9 to 12 months after....so no falling off that imaginary cliff to crash and set on fire like a cheap Van Damme movie....... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46617152

kerry 6138
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 1006
Joined: Mon 05 Oct 2015 6:38 pm

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 244 of 308 in Discussion

Post by kerry 6138 »

The great advantage brought by the common currency to Southern European economies that is often pointed up by supporters of the euro is the stability of the currency. It is often overlooked, however, that the impact that the euro and fixed exchange rates in general have had since its introduction was unfavourable. Italian and French economies have turned from net exporters to net importers whereas Spain, Portugal and Greece have amplified the magnitude of their trade deficit.

In rough numbers, between 1999 and 2007, the year of the financial crisis:
Germany’s trade surplus quadrupled;
France and Italy went from an approximately €25-bn surplus to a deficit that was slightly bigger than in the case of the former, and slightly smaller in the case of the latter than the surplus.
Spain’s trade deficit grew 5 times.
Portuguese and Greek deficits doubled.

The euro is a currency based on the weighted average of the national ones. With its introduction, Southern Europeans saw their purchasing power inflate due to the fact that the euro had a stronger value than their national currencies; the illusion of purchasing power created by the euro led Southern Europeans to import more, but also made their goods more expensive, hence while their economies kept growing, the imports grew significantly faster than the exports.

On the other hand, the price of German goods was weighted down by the weaker (in comparison to the Deutsche Mark) euro, making them more competitive and boosting Germany’s trade surplus.

From 2007 onward the financial crisis and the subsequent austerity policies crippled the purchasing power of Southern Europeans, leading them to import less and thus reducing the deficits, while the exports failed to recover.

User avatar
waz-24-7
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 988
Joined: Sun 24 Aug 2014 2:37 pm

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 245 of 308 in Discussion

Post by waz-24-7 »

turtle wrote:
turtle wrote:
erol wrote:At this stage I would just like to know what is going to happen before the day it happens.
Anybody's guess I would say.
But one thing is for sure things will carry on as normal for 9 to 12 months after....so no falling off that imaginary cliff to crash and set on fire like a cheap Van Damme movie....... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46617152

Exert from the link:

The commission has also urged its 27 remaining member states to take a "generous" approach to the residency rights of UK citizens in the EU following a no-deal Brexit, "provided that this approach is reciprocated by the UK".

I suspect the ROC will actively seek out UK citizens residing, supporting or investing in the TRNC and certainly refuse entry and possibly deport same as law breaking undesirables.

turtle
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 865
Joined: Sun 25 Nov 2012 10:44 am

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 246 of 308 in Discussion

Post by turtle »

Breaking what law exactly ?

User avatar
waz-24-7
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 988
Joined: Sun 24 Aug 2014 2:37 pm

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 247 of 308 in Discussion

Post by waz-24-7 »

turtle wrote:Breaking what law exactly ?

The Cypriot court decision on the Orams case, and its repercussions, will make anyone who occupies property belonging to a Greek Cypriot in the Turkish occupied area liable to pay damages, demolish any property bought/erected and perhaps end up in prison, not only in Cyprus, but through an international arrest warrant, and be arrested abroad

ROC administration is very clear upon its view of investors in the TRNC. Now whilst it has never bothered me much. The risk of antagonism from The ROC towards UK (non Europeans) is a risk I have highlighted for some time.
As of Mach 29th I strongly suspect that the new UK "alien" will be a marked target so as to make a point.

kerry 6138
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 1006
Joined: Mon 05 Oct 2015 6:38 pm

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 248 of 308 in Discussion

Post by kerry 6138 »

waz-24-7 wrote:
turtle wrote:Breaking what law exactly ?

The Cypriot court decision on the Orams case, and its repercussions, will make anyone who occupies property belonging to a Greek Cypriot in the Turkish occupied area liable to pay damages, demolish any property bought/erected and perhaps end up in prison, not only in Cyprus, but through an international arrest warrant, and be arrested abroad

ROC administration is very clear upon its view of investors in the TRNC. Now whilst it has never bothered me much. The risk of antagonism from The ROC towards UK (non Europeans) is a risk I have highlighted for some time.
As of Mach 29th I strongly suspect that the new UK "alien" will be a marked target so as to make a point.
Although I cant totally disagree with you regarding possibility of RoC treatment of UK nationals post Brexit, the case was a civil matter between Apostolides and the Orams so your use of words like international arrest warrants ,prison etc is just your version of project fear I'm afraid, your use of the Orams seems to me more reason to support leaving the EU rather than remaining.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostolides_v_Orams

Due to the island's division, the judgement reached by the Cypriot court was not directly enforceable, hence Mr Apostolides used EU regulations to have it registered and applied against the Orams' assets in the UK.[7] The procedure for the enforcement of judgements between Member States of the European Union is provided by Regulation No 44/2001.

EnjoyingTheSun
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 3387
Joined: Fri 16 Mar 2018 4:46 pm

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 249 of 308 in Discussion

Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

waz-24-7 wrote:
Sterling is no longer the force it used to be within the global currency and economics market.
The $, EURO, YEN, take the lead.
The UK trades offshore in mainly these currencies and the cost to UK business and economy is large as money markets capitalize on the exchange mechanisms.

I would be quite happy in fact to seriously consider use of the EURO or the US$. Many businesses in the UK hold EURO and $ accounts for international trade. Travelers are forced to exchange the good old £ into more acceptable currencies at significant cost for the privilege.

What indeed is so special about the UK £?
You have no idea what you are talking about do you? I guess the problem you had was finding an article informing us how wonderful the Euro is.
It isn't that the pound is special or needs to be one of the leading currencies. You don't change your currency just for convenience there is a bit more to it than saving a trip to the currency exchange.
I'm assuming that your business, that can only trade with countries in the immediate vicinity, means that you need a Euro account for which your bank makes hefty charges?
The Euro actually illustrates the hidden dangers of the EU so I wouldn't expect you to spot them Waz or read or understand the following.

The Euro was needed for those who are desperate to united Europe. If/when the Euro did go into meltdown it would only bring its participants closed together = political union.
When the Euro was started it was like putting the roof on a house before putting up the walls but was a political decision rather than an economic one.
A common currency leads to a common state. There are examples of different states using the same currency but they are small countries sharing a currency such as some of the Carribean countries using the dollar. Nowhere other than the EU do major states of roughly equal size share a common currency. That is because any reasonably sized country likes to have a say in the issue and management of their currency.
The problems of sharing a currency with your neighbours is that one of your neighbours may operate policies that undermine the currency which can cause a banking crises, inflation, effect bond yields or even cause a currency collapse. So you need to have some sort of control of their financial policies and how can you do that without a political union? How Europhiles can still tell us that there is no intention for EU members to lose any sovereignty and justify the Euro is beyond me.

Were you to decide to share a currency or form monetary union with others you first need to find if you are both simpatico. Are you subject to the same economic shocks, can you both produce full employment without independently fiddling with different interest rates etc? The EU didn't do this, the Euro was created with no bail-out clause, the stability and growth pact wasn't worth the paper it was written on and most importantly there was no banking union.

Spain and Ireland had a credit explosion which led to their property market overheating but Greece is a simpler example.
Greece joins the Euro and now enjoys lower interest rates and goes on a spending spree. German exporters were the main beneficiaries of this spree.
Slowly costs and prices continued to rise faster in the little countries like Greece than in Germany and the Greeks couldn’t compete. This often happened in the past but now Greece can't depreciate the Drachma and get more competitive.
So when the 2008 crisis hit everyone badly, for the small countries in the Euro like Greece it was catastrophic.
Now the EU had to save Greece from bankruptcy. With their options limited due to the Euro they come up with an austerity programme to deflate the Greek economy. It was the same solution that had been tried and failed in the thirties. The trouble is deflation worsens the debt ratio.
The gains of the Euro in reduced uncertainty over exchange rates and increased market size and efficiency have been very small. Trade between Eurozone members grew no faster than it did between members and non-members. However costs and prices rose faster in those countries that had historically high inflation. So overall the Eurozone performance was poor overall. It has been a chief driver of the overall high unemployment throughout the Eurozone which was the main criticism of the Gold Standard. That’s what Keynes was keen to avoid when he designed the Bretton Woods fixed but adjustable exchange rate. So basically The Euro is the modern Gold Standard with all of its faults and few of its strengths. At least with the Gold Standard countries were at least still in charge of their own financial management although they had little room for manoeuvre. And the Gold Standard wasn't a ruse to remove national sovereignty because you could suspend it or leave it.

Comparing the average economic growth of the Eurozone it is a little over half what it was in the 18 years after the Euro than it was in the 18 years before it. Times have been hard since 2008 but the Eurozone’s performance is far below countries that aren’t in the Euro. Germany’s growth has been a little under the Uk’s and half that of the US but France is nearly half the UK and nearly a third of the US. Spain, Portugal, Italy and Greece have contracted.

EnjoyingTheSun
Kibkommer
Kibkommer
Posts: 3387
Joined: Fri 16 Mar 2018 4:46 pm

Re: DEAL or NO DEAL on Brexit

  • Quote
  •   Message 250 of 308 in Discussion

Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

kerry 6138 wrote:
the case was a civil matter between Apostolides and the Orams so your use of words like international arrest warrants ,prison etc is just your version of project fear I'm afraid, your use of the Orams seems to me more reason to support leaving the EU rather than remaining.
Kerry,

Anyone who thinks all the Euro does is save you a trip to the money exchange will never grasp the difference civil and criminal law.

Post Reply

Return to “POLITICS - Kibkom North Cyprus Forum”