Shamima Begum

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EnjoyingTheSun
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Shamima Begum

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

I think we probably all know that eventually this creature will get back in. After spending millions of our taxes fighting her case she'll get in on some human rights nonsense.
I think we also know that the Home Secretary did it to play to the gallery. He is also BAME (had to look that up!) so can walk on the egg shells that such a decision engenders.

But for now lets enjoy the moment, we got our country back for a little while.
We might not be legally correct but our politicians did what the majority of their people or bosses wanted them to.
Apart from a few loudmouths who want to undermine our country and way of life at any opportunity most are happy that we have done the right thing even if it might be for the wrong reason. For once we have not undermined common sense and safety in the name of political correctness.

Enjoy the moment, think of it as half time in the World Cup semi final against Croatia. We are 1-0 up and if we win we get to the World Cup Final. We all know in our heart of hearts it is going to go pete tong but at least lets enjoy the half time break.

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Re: Shamima Begum

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Post by Ragged Robin »

OK that is one point of view.

But what about her baby. He or she is apparently a British citizen, has done no wrong and is no risk to anyone. What sort of life will it have brought up by a stateless mother in a refugee camp, or will it be brought up its grandparents who now have a scunner against UK authorities. Either way not how to educate a future useful , loyal UK citizen. A no win situation?

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Re: Shamima Begum

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

Ragged Robin wrote:OK that is one point of view.

But what about her baby. He or she is apparently a British citizen, has done no wrong and is no risk to anyone. What sort of life will it have brought up by a stateless mother in a refugee camp, or will it be brought up its grandparents who now have a scunner against UK authorities. Either way not how to educate a future useful , loyal UK citizen. A no win situation?
I respect your point of view and I truly respect that you are no doubt kinder and have more restraint than me.

Re the grandparents and baby they no doubt might be collateral damage on this. But the children of a mass murderer undoubtedly suffer too for his crimes but what do we do? Let him off?

Ok she has been brainwashed, you can guarantee she won't brainwash her baby?

In the desire to be a civilised country we seem to overlook that one of the chief functions of a civilisation is to look after its people who can't look after themselves. Like young girls going to a concert to see a pop star. I would like to guarantee that we will do all in our power to look after them.

So we let her in she is a sleeper agent, by no means a long shot. In three years time we have to explain to hundreds of parents that so as we appeared kind your daughter isn't coming home or is maimed.

She is 15 and didn't know what she was doing? When I was 15 being naughty was pinching a few of my Dads lagers and going for a drink over the park. I still knew there would be consequences to pay. Even at 15 I knew that you had to pay for your mistakes.

This is a war against these fanatics and until we can see that we are going to lose. In war you have to take harsh measures.

So we don't wrap our arms around this young girl who has rejected our country and seems to hate what it stands for but make the lives of 100 other young girls safer?
I can live with that. I'll take that on my own head. She will hate me? She seems to hate me already for some reason.

Her child might be a future loyal citizen? Im sure those 23 people in Manchester weren't all bad. I'm going to play the odds on this one

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Re: Shamima Begum

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Post by turtle »

The Liberals are already in full repatriation mode and are getting very vocal.
Se was only 15 and still a child when she went they are saying, she didn't know what she was doing they are saying, she was brainwashed they say.
These are the very same people who they want to give the vote to ?...can you imagine that.
That clown Corbyn has just stood up in Brussels and said she should return without fail.
Apparently (according to the Guardian) most residents in Bethnal Green want her to return I think that tells me all I need to know about the residents in Bethnal Green thank you very much.
She should stay and rot in that hell hole she has helped to create and never be allowed back to the UK.
The baby is a different scenario and for me if she wants to give the baby up and hand it to the British authorities for care then I have no issues with that.

I am sure this thread will be shut down with some lame excuse attached.

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Re: Shamima Begum

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Post by Ragged Robin »

Actually I did not express a point of view (I am actually unsure how I feel about this) but asked a question. I did not realise at the time I wrote (I have read a BBC report since) just how bad the problem of the children of Jihadists from other countries (including Russia() is. I am not usually sentimental about children (actually I prefer dogs! ) but it does seem to me unfair that so many are going to suffer for the sins of their fathers (and more importantly in this case mothers) and that there is a risk of a generation growing up that is not just radicalised but disaffected from birth,

I do also think that the host countries have some responsibility for creating a greedy, materialistic and intolerant society which also failed in educating our own, let alone children of immigrants and created a climate in which brainwashing could flourish.

After all, many of us are here because we were not happy in the UK as it was becoming and, indeed, are now worried about the future of Northern Cyprus.

I (and I expect you were) was lucky in that I was not subject to the temptations that face modern teenagers, and had parents and teachers who took seriously their duty to keep me on the straight and narrow, but even so looking back I shudder to think of the silly things I thought and did at age 15 and how lucky I was to get away with them!

I think I would be - I can't say happier, perhaps less uneasy - about the whole situation if I had any idea what the process of deradicalisation entails. "Banging them up" in prison where they will have access to drugs and associate with criminals where their knowledge of weaponry etc. will be welcome would certainly be counter-productive. So would leaving them in refugee camps where their grievances against humanity would be aggravated.

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Re: Shamima Begum

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Post by Ragged Robin »

This is the first occasion for some time on which I have dared to even dip a toe on Kibcom on what is a very contentious issue. It does need discussing so let us hope we can avoid having the thread closed by respecting others' opinions and avoiding insulting and intemperate language against each other - or even politicians who many of us dislike,

I think it is also worth remembering that in World terms the Middle East is important (if only financially and in terms of resources) and leaving it to cope with all the nastiness may harm our own economies. Also there are quite a few decent, well behaved and peace loving people in the Middle East just like us who just want to lead ordinary lives in peace and not in a "hell hole" without the detritus of wars they did not want.

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Re: Shamima Begum

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

turtle wrote:
These are the very same people who they want to give the vote to ?...can you imagine that.
Oh the we should let 16 year olds vote because the government affects them too mob? It affects sheepdogs too, where are we going with this?

Then they come up with but they are only 16.

Corbyn rebelled against his party hundreds of times because he was a free thinker. Tom Watson speaks out against Labour and he should be deselected. etc etc

Standards? Mine's a double

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Re: Shamima Begum

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

Ragged Robin wrote:
I shudder to think of the silly things I thought and did at age 15 and how lucky I was to get away with them!
I was a wrong un, my friends were certainly wrong uns. But we did know right from wrong. Even if we didn't always do right, it was through choice.

I know people who gave up crime because in the end the sentences made it uneconomic to continue. As simple as that.
The chances of getting caught and the amount of time you would do didn't make the rewards worthwhile.

Being a criminal isn't a bad life, you are your own boss, you don't work too hard, pick your own hours and the pay is good.

So what stops you? An internal moral compass can, but not everyone's works the same and circumstances can change your compass.
So it's risk verses reward if the rewards are worth the risk you might become a criminal.

Yes there are a lot of pressures on the good kids now, but if I was 15 now I dread to think what I'd be doing.

Less police who aren't motivated and turn a blind eye to all but the worst crimes. Odds on getting caught are low.

If I get caught the courts are loath to put you in prison so you have to get caught a few times to actually get time.

OK after a few cases I get say 3 years. Done 6 months on remand that leaves two and a half. Knock off half for parole which you'll get no problem. Now you are doing just over a year. A few months in a bad prison and then off to somewhere nice maybe even an open prison to prepare me for my release as it is only months away. I get to the last few months I get weekends home, play it right and I spend as much time at home as I do in the country club.

Risk v reward has to govern any justice system. Forget rehabilitation, people rehabilitate when it is in their interests to do so. Ten years in a hard prison motivates.

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Re: Shamima Begum

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Post by Cally »

Message 2 RR, I checked the citizenship status of a baby born to a British Citizen abroad & it attains British Nationality, BC is to be applied for.

One thing I would like to add though, is to all the people aghast at her treatment as she was radicalised. I would like to know where this happened, was it in school, was it at home. If the latter is this the place to bring this baby to. This "child" actually stole her elder sisters passport to enable her to travel.

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Re: Shamima Begum

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Post by turtle »

She knew exactly what she was doing...now she's got her arse burnt she wants to return to the comfort of "Lifes for free" UK

Lets ask ourselves what will she contribute to the UK if allowed back...absolutely zilch.

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Re: Shamima Begum

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Post by Dalartokat »

Cally she was radicalised by 2 women on the internet after her Mother died, (she was brought up by her grandmother) and they came (the women)from the East London Mosque, who were arrested later on when everything started to come to light before and after Shamina Begun and the others she encouraged to go with her, went to Syria.

It has already been said when this all first broke, that if she were to return to UK she will have the baby removed from her because she will be in Police Custody and eventually sent to prison. If she stays in the Refugee Camp it will be a long time before she leaves it.

My own personal opinion is that there should be a news blackout on this person and her family in UK. Leave it to the Security Services and the Home Secretary and leave us in the UK to deal with the ongoing problems that we have.
Old Soldiers never die, they simply fade away, never to be forgotten.

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Re: Shamima Begum

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Post by Cally »

Thanks for that Dalartokat, I had read that her mother had died but when it was reported that the letter had been sent to her mother, I was not sure what to believe after that.

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Re: Shamima Begum

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Post by Dalartokat »

I know, I found that confusing also. There is so much variation on the reporting from newspapers, radio stations and newspapers.
Old Soldiers never die, they simply fade away, never to be forgotten.

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Re: Shamima Begum

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Post by kerry 6138 »

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharmeena_Begum

she lived with her mother who died of cancer age 33 her father came from Bangladesh to join them when she was 7 and remarried after the death of her mother.
she was brought up by her uncle and grandmother.

she has the right to apply for Bangladeshi citizenship until shes 21because of her mother, but it must be applied for its not automatic so she is currently stateless so expect the news blackout in the second half of the game for her appeal.
But of course it might have served its purpose PM Javid may be in place by then swept to power by his strong stance against a teenage jehadi bride.

personally I would be more comfortable if she was caught up in a wave of removal of citizenship rights for the100 or so jehadi fighters who have returned, the asian grooming gangs in Rotherham, Rochdale and Oxford and the likes of Anjem Choudry and the other radical preachers

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Re: Shamima Begum

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

Dalartokat wrote:
My own personal opinion is that there should be a news blackout on this person and her family in UK. Leave it to the Security Services and the Home Secretary and leave us in the UK to deal with the ongoing problems that we have.
Totally disagree with a news blackout on this or an inquiry or anything that is their usual delaying fudge until we have forgotten about it.

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Re: Shamima Begum

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kerry 6138 wrote:
she has the right to apply for Bangladeshi citizenship until shes 21because of her mother, but it must be applied for its not automatic so she is currently stateless so expect the news blackout in the second half of the game for her appeal.
But of course it might have served its purpose PM Javid may be in place by then swept to power by his strong stance against a teenage jehadi bride.
I don't mind helping her fill in any forms. She is out of the house don't give her a key or let her in. Where she goes, who cares? Re international law, ignore it when it suits like everyone else does. Totally agree re Javid playing to the galleries but don't they all?
kerry 6138 wrote:
personally I would be more comfortable if she was caught up in a wave of removal of citizenship rights for the100 or so jehadi fighters who have returned, the asian grooming gangs in Rotherham, Rochdale and Oxford and the likes of Anjem Choudry and the other radical preachers
I think anyone who has proved that they hate the country that has homed them, hate the citizens of that country who are different to them and harm the citizens of that country get booted. I don't care whether they were born here, have family here etc. Bin them.
Anjem Choudry got 5 years prison time and spent it trying to radicalise the whole prison. And he got paroled just over 2 years later? Thought you had to earn parole? Maybe repent a bit? Or at least pretend.

Country's broken maybe booting this girl might be the start of fixing it. They need to do something, if Corbyn gets in, I'm flying back to get everything out of the country.

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Re: Shamima Begum

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Post by Ragged Robin »

Dalartokat wrote:Cally she was radicalised by 2 women on the internet after her Mother died, (she was brought up by her grandmother) and they came (the women)from the East London Mosque, who were arrested later on when everything started to come to light before and after Shamina Begun and the others she encouraged to go with her, went to Sy
Thank for that info D. One lesson that should be learned is that there should be more control and policing of the Internet, particularly to prevent the brainwashing in various ways of impressionable youngsters.

One thing that stands out to me - whoever loses in the outcome to this terrible conundrum it will not be the Lawyers!

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Re: Shamima Begum

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Ragged Robin wrote:
One thing that stands out to me - whoever loses in the outcome to this terrible conundrum it will not be the Lawyers!
Hope its a good show because we'll be paying for it.

As for impressionable and naive, we all were at one time. I remember being jealous of those kids who got to meet Jimmy Saville but I was never impressionable to think bombing someone was the way forward.

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Re: Shamima Begum

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EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Ragged Robin wrote:
One thing that stands out to me - whoever loses in the outcome to this terrible conundrum it will not be the Lawyers!
Hope its a good show because we'll be paying for it.

If you are talking about British taxpayers, havent we been paying for a war we were tricked into for years?

As for impressionable and naive, we all were at one time. I remember being jealous of those kids who got to meet Jimmy Saville but I was never impressionable to think bombing someone was the way forward.
At one time my hero was Bonnie Prince Charlie - the fact that he was a rebel and anti establishment only made it more romantic. The fact that sticking claymores into people was not nice,.. never occurred t ome, and I expect he would have used bombs too if they had been invented, Just a thought.

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Re: Shamima Begum

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Ragged Robin wrote:
EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Ragged Robin wrote:
One thing that stands out to me - whoever loses in the outcome to this terrible conundrum it will not be the Lawyers!
Hope its a good show because we'll be paying for it.

If you are talking about British taxpayers, havent we been paying for a war we were tricked into for years?

As for impressionable and naive, we all were at one time. I remember being jealous of those kids who got to meet Jimmy Saville but I was never impressionable to think bombing someone was the way forward.
At one time my hero was Bonnie Prince Charlie - the fact that he was a rebel and anti establishment only made it more romantic. The fact that sticking claymores into people was not nice,.. never occurred t ome, and I expect he would have used bombs too if they had been invented, Just a thought.
Sure this years terrorist is another person's freedom fighter is next years statesman.
I believed in Irish republicanism but when you are planting a bomb on a school bus to kill the part time RUC officer driving it you totally lose me.

The problem with some terror organisations and IS is a text book case, is they will keep upping the atrocities until you can't take anymore. So even if you believe your cause is just you do have limited choices.

You can give up and let them win. All that means is you give a road map to the next people who want you to bend a knee.

You match them atrocity for atrocity confident that you will win a numbers game.

Or you try to fight them in as civilised a way as you can. Problem is when you choose option three be under no illusions that they will respect your humanity and see the light. Every civilised thing you do will be seen as weakness and only encourage them to up the ante.

So as I like to win so I'm half way between two and three. I'm prepared to go all in but try and keep my soul while I do. Its a difficult balancing act and you lose a bit of humanity but I think you save the world from bullies and barbarians.

Sorry to this girl but she made a mistake and she will have to live with it. Mistakes have consequences at any age.

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