Brexit Petition

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Jonnie
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Re: Brexit Petition

Post by Jonnie »

Interesting analysis of the current situation here:- https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/lib ... html#refQ0

Strong suggestion that the EU are trying to manipulate the process in order force a second vote. Shows what they think of the democratic process.
Some are wise and some otherwise.....

David
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Re: Brexit Petition

Post by David »

Lets leave and move forward ...do the remoaners have no faith in this country ?

turtle
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Re: Brexit Petition

Post by turtle »

Jonnie wrote:I should imagine the internet and social media savvy youngsters who feel their future has been robbed will account for a considerable portion of the petition. I was having a discussion on FB this morning with someone who told me their friends 8 year old had broken down in tears when leave was voted for! Where the hell did that come from? I was a remainer, probably 6/10 however for various reasons I am now a leaver and think we need now to get on with it. I blame the mess on the remainer MPs who are not voting as instructed by their constituencies.
I think that is half the problem Jonnie...MPs have constantly voted as to their own prefered option and not as the constituents voted which in itself is unforgivable and against what they are elected for so why bother electing these career minded expenses sapping leeches.
A part of me says we should have a general election and watch these bozo's squirm.

cambridge
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Re: Brexit Petition

Post by cambridge »

With regard to the internet petition there is a huge amount of doubt about it’s veracity due to many people being able to vote on many occasions without the anomaly being picked up.

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erol
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Re: Brexit Petition

Post by erol »

David wrote:Lets leave and move forward ...do the remoaners have no faith in this country ?
I voted to remain in the EU and I have faith in the the UK. I have for example faith that within the EU we are not just helpless pawns that will sooner or later be forced to do things against our will by a bullying all powerful 'EU'. Certainly that is what we have managed to do whilst in the EU so far. We managed to resist having the Euro forced upon us. We managed to resist having Schengen membership forced upon us. Is it me who does not have faith in the UK or you I have to wonder ?

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erol
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Re: Brexit Petition

Post by erol »

turtle wrote:I think that is half the problem Jonnie...MPs have constantly voted as to their own prefered option and not as the constituents voted which in itself is unforgivable and against what they are elected for so why bother electing these career minded expenses sapping leeches.
A part of me says we should have a general election and watch these bozo's squirm.
How many MP's who voted remain and are in constituencies that had a majority that voted leave, voted against triggering article 50 ? I do not know but I suspect it is a tiny number.

So after that, what were they supposed to vote for, in your opinion, in order to vote as the majority of their constituents voted ? For Teresa May's deal ? For a 'no deal exit' ? Well that option has not been put before them to vote on. Nor is it clear, despite the protestations of some, that all those who voted to leave the EU also support leaving without a deal. Some clearly do but it is to me clearly pejorative nonsense to just claim that everyone who voted leave in the referendum therefore supports a no deal exit. So I am left wondering exactly what it is you want these MP's to vote for, other than it just being a coded way of saying / asking why can not MP's just do what I personally want them to do , regardless of if that is the majority will of their constituents or the country or not.

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erol
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Re: Brexit Petition

Post by erol »

cambridge wrote:With regard to the internet petition there is a huge amount of doubt about it’s veracity due to many people being able to vote on many occasions without the anomaly being picked up.
A huge amount of doubt from whom ?

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erol
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Re: Brexit Petition

Post by erol »

Jonnie wrote:Strong suggestion that the EU are trying to manipulate the process in order force a second vote. Shows what they think of the democratic process.
Do you think the likes of the ERG have not been trying to 'manipulate the process' to achieve their personal preference for a no deal exit from the EU, regardless of if that option has the support of the majority of the UK or not ?

To me, given the position we are in now, if you sincerely believe that a no deal exit is the right choice AND it is the choice of a majority of the British public and is being thwarted by MP's that will not implement the will of the people, and given that MP's have already rejected such, you would be campaigning for a referendum on that issue. Yet the likes of the ERG are not doing this, they are in fact behaving in a way that makes it seem that such is their worst nightmare. Why is that ?

turtle
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Re: Brexit Petition

Post by turtle »

erol wrote:
turtle wrote:I think that is half the problem Jonnie...MPs have constantly voted as to their own prefered option and not as the constituents voted which in itself is unforgivable and against what they are elected for so why bother electing these career minded expenses sapping leeches.
A part of me says we should have a general election and watch these bozo's squirm.
How many MP's who voted remain and are in constituencies that had a majority that voted leave, voted against triggering article 50 ? I do not know but I suspect it is a tiny number.

So after that, what were they supposed to vote for, in your opinion, in order to vote as the majority of their constituents voted ? For Teresa May's deal ? For a 'no deal exit' ? Well that option has not been put before them to vote on. Nor is it clear, despite the protestations of some, that all those who voted to leave the EU also support leaving without a deal. Some clearly do but it is to me clearly pejorative nonsense to just claim that everyone who voted leave in the referendum therefore supports a no deal exit. So I am left wondering exactly what it is you want these MP's to vote for, other than it just being a coded way of saying / asking why can not MP's just do what I personally want them to do , regardless of if that is the majority will of their constituents or the country or not.
So the majority of the country voted to leave but the majority of MPs are remainers by a large number when i last saw the figures...now what i and the majority of leavers want from our MPs is to see them get behind the process of leaving and not to make it their goal to derail the process at every turn when was the last time an MP went to parliament and totally ignored what their constituents instructed them?.

Erol can i again ask you to stop making this personal.....yes I do want to leave the EU no secret there but so does 17.4 million others so no it is not solely what i personally want its what the majority want and demand but as usual you make this into a personal grudge directed at me.
Lets make one thing clear hear you won't bully me off the board as you have with many others....stop acting like a spoilt child and at least accept others views....hard for you I know but just try will you.

turtle
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Re: Brexit Petition

Post by turtle »

.
Do you think the likes of the ERG have not been trying to 'manipulate the process' to achieve their personal preference for a no deal exit from the EU, regardless of if that option has the support of the majority of the UK or not ?
I can't believe that statement (or maybe I can ?). The fact that the majority of the UK has that opinion is surely why in a democracy that should be carried or maybe in your somewhat warped democracy if your wife and child wanted to go to Pizza Hut and you wanted to go to McDonalds i would suggest it would be McDonalds and stuff the the others majority choice......priceless.

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erol
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Re: Brexit Petition

Post by erol »

turtle wrote: So the majority of the country voted to leave but the majority of MPs are remainers by a large number when i last saw the figures...
Yet they overwhelmingly voted for triggering article 50.
turtle wrote: now what i and the majority of leavers want from our MPs is to see them get behind the process of leaving
What does that mean ? Should they have got behind TM's deal ? If not then what should they have got behind ? It is TM that is driving the process.
turtle wrote:and not to make it their goal to derail the process at every turn
So the ERG MP's - who have done everything in their power to block and thwart TM's deal going though - are they MPs that have been trying to derail the process at every turn in your view ?
turtle wrote: can i again ask you to stop making this personal.....yes I do want to leave the EU no secret there but so does 17.4 million others so no it is not solely what i personally want its what the majority want and demand but as usual you make this into a personal grudge directed at me.
Lets make one thing clear hear you won't bully me off the board as you have with many others....stop acting like a spoilt child and at least accept others views....hard for you I know but just try will you.
If you stop claiming that the 17.4 million voted for a no deal exit from the EU, then I would not need to keep making the point that such is 'your preference' and not necessarily what 17.4 million voted for.

Who have I bullied off this board ? How is you repeated 'threats' to 'out me' as moderator and then to do so not 'bullying' me ? How is asking me to stop acting like a spoilt child compatible with asking me to stop making this personal ? I accept other peoples views. I do not accept that challenging the kind of BS you posted in your bullet point copy paste post is 'not accepting other people views'. They were direct statements of fact that are just untrue and as long as you or anyone else posts such rubbish I will challenge it.

ljarvo
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Re: Brexit Petition

Post by ljarvo »

Votes to Revoke Article 50 now at 3,706,979!!

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erol
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Re: Brexit Petition

Post by erol »

turtle wrote:
.
Do you think the likes of the ERG have not been trying to 'manipulate the process' to achieve their personal preference for a no deal exit from the EU, regardless of if that option has the support of the majority of the UK or not ?
I can't believe that statement (or maybe I can ?). The fact that the majority of the UK has that opinion is surely why in a democracy that should be carried or maybe in your somewhat warped democracy if your wife and child wanted to go to Pizza Hut and you wanted to go to McDonalds i would suggest it would be McDonalds and stuff the the others majority choice......priceless.
The referendum question was not 'Should the UK leave the EU without a deal in place'.

Using your analogy - your family votes to eat out and you then insist that means you eat at McDonalds and can only mean that you eat at McDonalds and no where else and that the only way to implement the democratic vote of the family is to eat at McDonalds. That is what you are doing. You take a valid democratic vote for something (to leave the EU) but deny there is any other valid way to implement that other than your own choice of implementation (no deal exit). That is how it seems to me.

Catlover
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Re: Brexit Petition

Post by Catlover »

Please stop this bickering and just sign whichever petition you support.

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erol
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Re: Brexit Petition

Post by erol »

ljarvo wrote:Votes to Revoke Article 50 now at 3,706,979!!
But it means nothing jarvo - Nigel has said it is the Russians - no need to wonder why the Russians would do so. Some guy on facebook said they voted 33,000 times on a petition whilst in the shower - no need to wonder why the three different cyber security firms the BBC asked for comment all concurred that such mass scale manipulation is far from trivial and unlikely. Nor is their any need to wonder why, if the government petitions site is so easily manipulated, why then is the petition to for leaving with a no deal still struggling to reach even 400,000. I mean the track record of 'fighting fair' by the extreme no deal leaver camp is so unimpeachable - clearly the only people devious enough to attempt such a manipulation have to retainers.

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erol
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Re: Brexit Petition

Post by erol »

Catlover wrote:Please stop this bickering and just sign whichever petition you support.
Is that an attempt to silence me ? Or Turtle ?

Catlover
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Re: Brexit Petition

Post by Catlover »

Both of you, this is getting out of hand now.
I posted this topic to encourage people to use the Petitions website NOT to have a bickering match on Kibkom.

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Re: Brexit Petition

Post by Soner »

OP has asked to close this thread, quite rightly so, as it seems to have been hi-jacked.
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