Brexit and the Lisbon Treaty

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pc4854
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Brexit and the Lisbon Treaty

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Post by pc4854 »

I have just received the informatiom I am putting below. I do not know if it is correct or accurate. If it is a true summary of the Lisbon Treaty then I think it is something every one should read and then take a position on it.



WHY IS NOBODY TALKING ABOUT THE LISBON TREATY, THE TREATY THAT COMES INTO FORCE 2020, ITS WORSE THAN THE SO CALLED DEAL, IF 99% OF THE BRITISH THINK TERESA MAYS DEAL IS BAD, JUST LOOK AT THE LISBON TREATY. PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW, LEAVERS AND REMAIN
..“What will actually happen if we stay in the EU” is a question no remainer will ever answer but here it is warts and all.
Check it out if you wish ——>>

1: The UK along with all existing members of the EU lose their abstention veto in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty when the system changes to that of majority acceptance with no abstentions or veto’s being allowed.
2: All member nations will become states of the new federal nation of the EU by 2022 as clearly laid out in the Lisbon treaty with no exceptions or veto’s.
3: All member states must adopt the Euro by 2022 and any new member state must do so within 2 years of joining the EU as laid down in the Lisbon treaty.
4: The London stock exchange will move to Frankfurt in 2020 and be integrated into the EU stock exchange resulting in a loss of 200,000 plus jobs in the UK because of the relocation. (This has already been pre-agreed and is only on a holding pattern due to the Brexit negotiations, which if Brexit does happen, the move is fully cancelled - but if not and the UK remains a member it’s full steam ahead for the move.)
5: The EU Parliament and ECJ become supreme over all legislative bodies of the UK.
6: The UK will adopt 100% of whatever the EU Parliament and ECJ lays down without any means of abstention or veto, negating the need for the UK to have the Lords or even the Commons as we know it today.
7: The UK will NOT be able to make its own trade deals.
8: The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade tariffs.
9 The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade quotas.
10: The UK loses control of its fishing rights
11: The UK loses control of its oil and gas rights
12: The UK loses control of its borders and enters the Schengen region by 2022 - as clearly laid down in the Lisbon treaty
13: The UK loses control of its planning legislation
14: The UK loses control of its armed forces including its nuclear deterrent
15: The UK loses full control of its taxation policy
16: The UK loses the ability to create its own laws and to implement them
17: The UK loses its standing in the Commonwealths
18: The UK loses control of any provinces or affiliated nations e.g.: Falklands, Cayman Islands, Gibraltar etc
19: The UK loses control of its judicial system
20: The UK loses control of its international policy
21: The UK loses full control of its national policy
22: The UK loses its right to call itself a nation in its own right.
23: The UK loses control of its space exploration program
24: The UK loses control of its Aviation and Sea lane jurisdiction
25: The UK loses its rebate in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon treaty
26: The UK’s contribution to the EU is set to increase by an average of 1.2bn pa and by 2.3bn pa by 2020
This is the future that the youths of today think we stole from them?
They should be on their knees thanking us for saving them from being turned into Orwellian automatons!
Forget Deals no deals its time for remainers and brexiteers to unite and see whats coming before its to late. This is the whole reason they are dragging brexit out. So we can get to 2020 then we have no choices anymore.

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Re: Brexit and the Lisbon Treaty

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Post by Keithcaley »

It's mainly bollocks.

If you bothered to check just one single line, say this one: "The UK loses its rebate in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon treaty" then you would come up with a fact checking site such as https://fullfact.org/europe/viral-list- ... aty-wrong/.

As always with these statements that are circulated on social media, there will be the odd bit included that is true, but the majority of it will be sensationalism and false, either for the purposes of gaining advertising revenue for the originator, or simply sowing dissent in our society - to the benefit of whichever Chinese or Russian group was behind it.

**edited to correct Grammar
Last edited by Keithcaley on Wed 18 Sep 2019 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Brexit and the Lisbon Treaty

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Post by Mowgli597 »

And this has been done to death (and beyond the grave) on this Forum before.

See here.

Please don’t resurrect zombie topics like this.

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Re: Brexit and the Lisbon Treaty

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

Keithcaley wrote:It's mainly bollocks.

If you bothered to check just one single line, say this one: "The UK loses its rebate in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon treaty" then you would come up with a fact checking site such as https://fullfact.org/europe/viral-list- ... aty-wrong/.
I would say fauxfact is about as independent and non partisan as the leaflet, especially in regard to the EU

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Re: Brexit and the Lisbon Treaty

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Post by waz-24-7 »

So The Lisbon treaty is terrible for the UK.
Hmmm...not sure about that at all.
In real terms the treaty streamlines a lot of current bureaucracy as it replaces the two current agreements.
The agreement allows for a higher level of accountability and for member states to be more enlightened over many rather complex situations that arise when many individual states are within a union. Much the same way as the United states within the USA.


It is surprising to me how the brexit topic on the forum has faded to almost zero.
3 years on and we are not sorted. The country have never been so divided and the government remains in turmoil.

My own position remains the same. The deal is rubbish. A no deal is a disaster and the people should decide,
ACCEPT THE DEAL OR LEAVE WITH NO DEAL OR REMAIN.

certainly the position is now far more clear than it was or indeed portrayed 3 years ago. The Deal is now clear and real obstacles are very apparent.
The leavers who seriously thought it would be a simple walk away and all will be fine are far better informed.

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Re: Brexit and the Lisbon Treaty

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Post by jofra »

Plain and simple - the current state of affairs is that a deal has not been agreed. Therefore, as the majority desire an exit, the "exit" takes place on the prescibed date - FULL STOP.
After a period of one year, a full INDEPENDENT (by e.g. UN/Australia/China?) analysis of the effects on the country and the residents is carried out; if exit did NOT harm us, all "remainers" to be convicted as traitors and put to death....
if exit DID harm us, all "brexiteers" to be convicted as traitors and put to death....
Of course, if an extension is obtained, and if a deal is subsequently agreed - then we can then STILL follow the above procedure.....

"...democracy is used in many primitive societies ... but he didn't know of any civilized planet using it, as Vox Populi, Vox Dei translates as: "My God! How did we get in this mess!"

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Post by waz-24-7 »

Hmmm,
FULL STOP and damn the consequences. It'll all be alright wont it Sir ?

It would be so helpful if someone was able to tell me what will happen about exports to Europe on November the 1st.
Motorway sign tell me to "Enquire". I did and no one could tell me. The DTI ... no sorry try this number. The government was closed at the time.

The blind leading the partially sighted Into the total unknown.

Did you really vote for this? Did you ever think of the consequences of that simple tick in a box? I think very probably not!!
Do you feel more enlightened than you did 3 years ago. Very probably.
Are you simply to proud or stubborn to re think and re assess......Many are. Many are not and view Europe as the new enemy.

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Re: Brexit and the Lisbon Treaty

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Post by jofra »

Hello stranger - long time no see - do you not recognise satire/sarcasm...?
Note that firstly I deliberately do NOT and WILL NOT state my stance re "Brexit" - I then suggest that in one case "remainers" are put to death, and in the other "brexiteers" are put to death...?
Perhaps (because of my advanced years ) I have learned to accept that my, your, and everybody's wishes and opinions are ignored by the elected MPs - each and every one promises everything, but in due course, follows the "party line" - which is NOT what YOU wanted...
Just consider - mps are the last three letters of "pimps" - individuals who acquire money from other people being screwed....

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Re: Brexit and the Lisbon Treaty

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Post by waz-24-7 »

Hello Jofra,
Certainly the UK parliament is rather an embarrassment and the UK populous have never been as divided as it currently is.
To put people to death is somewhat harsh but of course I acknowledge your stance upon the ludicrous state of the nation.

I have not been on lately as I have taken advice and gone out to seek new global trade deals. Not easy I can tell you straight.

Having now returned from a full circumnavigation of the globe some 33,000 miles through all the time zones and from Shropshire to Siberia to China, Korea, japan and the USA. 22,000 miles by car.
I can report that the task to secure new global trade is not a walk in the park.
Why have British people voted to be poorer and to be isolated from the major economic union that is the EU.? this is the general feedback I have experienced.
To trade with distant markets is increasingly difficult. On the logistics and environmental ticket alone. Shop local is the environmentalists slogan and it makes sense and is increasingly true when considering the planet and its demise.
Brexit is making news across the world. Most other EU states are now very clear upon the folly of leaving the union. All of them are preparing in readiness of the UK departure....Buy from us because its easier than trading with the UK. We can supply goods quickly and easily.....the UK is in turmoil, disorganised and are the laughing stock of the world.

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Re: Brexit and the Lisbon Treaty

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

waz-24-7 wrote:
I have not been on lately as I have taken advice and gone out to seek new global trade deals. Not easy I can tell you straight.

Having now returned from a full circumnavigation of the globe some 33,000 miles through all the time zones and from Shropshire to Siberia to China, Korea, japan and the USA. 22,000 miles by car.
I can report that the task to secure new global trade is not a walk in the park.
I guess it was a bit fiddly moving from horses to motorcars.
Congratulations on making the move as you are now entering into markets and economies that are growing more than the EU.

Think of it as the carpenter back in the day. Once he had carried out all the carpentry in his village he had to go and tout for trade in the next village. Sometimes maybe even in the next city!

Or the old hunter gatherers. Early days I'm sure their prey wandered up to their front door but eventually.......

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Re: Brexit and the Lisbon Treaty

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Post by waz-24-7 »

ETS
I wish it was that simple.

The carpenter and the hunter have moved on ;though in Mongolia that culture still exists . The global economy is massive and target markets are plentiful for some particularly those of the silicon Valley type. A few UK providers can succeed but that employ few and are mostly now foreign owned.

Manufacturing within the UK has steadily declined and our industry is under threat and is fragile to say the least.
Many people remember with fondness times of prosperity when UK industry was strong and the UK was a major military, economic and global power.

No longer; I'm afraid. The rest of the world has caught up. China, Korea, Brazil, India, Vietnam the list goes on are having their time as power houses of manufacturing and exporting.

The notion that by leaving the EU the UK prosperity will miraculously be turned around is pure fantasy. There is no reasoning that even suggests that. "Take back control " is a slogan without substance it will not make the UK any more competitive, attractive to investors or provide any new impetus to industries needing to export and earn desperately needed foreign currency.

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Re: Brexit and the Lisbon Treaty

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

waz-24-7 wrote:
The carpenter and the hunter have moved on
Yeah kind of the point I was making

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Post by waz-24-7 »

Indeed,
The carpenters are now making hay in the far east making oak furniture for the western world with low labour costs and massive financial and material resources.

The Hunter is rather different as the UK has a very successful food production industry. Our largest customer for food and ancillaries to this is the EU.
It's the "local" market for both parties. It has not been perfect but the sector is very profitable and worth supporting and developing.

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Re: Brexit and the Lisbon Treaty

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

waz-24-7 wrote:
Our largest customer for food and ancillaries to this is the EU.
If you check our trade figures pre- 1972 you'll see this is a self fulfilling prophesy. It's a bit like those record or book clubs you join. You end up buying all your records and books from them but it doesn't mean it's the cheapest.

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Re: Brexit and the Lisbon Treaty

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Post by waz-24-7 »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
waz-24-7 wrote:
Our largest customer for food and ancillaries to this is the EU.
If you check our trade figures pre- 1972 you'll see this is a self fulfilling prophesy. It's a bit like those record or book clubs you join. You end up buying all your records and books from them but it doesn't mean it's the cheapest.

Wow,
I cant remember much figures of 1972 and have little appetite to research.
2022 is more in my sights. The UK food and food services are exported to the Union. The products meet the stringent quality and traceability standards of the Union. They are tariff free and pass through the Union unhindered. Local market supply within a common market has worked for many years.
This is why this sector has been so successful. Products wishing to enter this market as of 1st November will be less attractive given the WTO tariff regime and expect some reluctance to buy from a seller who has somewhat alienated the buyer by divorce.

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Re: Brexit and the Lisbon Treaty

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

waz-24-7 wrote:

Wow,
I cant remember much figures of 1972 and have little appetite to research.
2022 is more in my sights. The UK food and food services are exported to the Union. The products meet the stringent quality and traceability standards of the Union. They are tariff free and pass through the Union unhindered. Local market supply within a common market has worked for many years.
This is why this sector has been so successful. Products wishing to enter this market as of 1st November will be less attractive given the WTO tariff regime and expect some reluctance to buy from a seller who has somewhat alienated the buyer by divorce.
You know we did buy and sell stuff with the EU before 1972 right? The countries within the EU's, economies are growing at a slower rate than countries outside it and have been for years. Even if you believe it was an economic powerhouse it isn't any more

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Re: Brexit and the Lisbon Treaty

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Post by waz-24-7 »

ETS
Regardless the EU remains our biggest trading partner. EU regulations on food labelling , safety legislation and quality standards will still need to be acknowledged if we wish to trade successfully. Difference is the UK will have no say on such legislative matters.

Of course if we were in the 70,s then the UK would be much better placed to stand alone. After all ;we had all our own red tape stuff in paper pamphlets and legal documents.
Guess well have to dig it all out again, modify it all to bring us up to date and then hope the EU and others will buy into the new updated UK system.

A ministry of new kite marks, labelling , fishing standards, vehicle emissions standard etc etc will surely be able to do all this in say 10 yrs, and say 10,000 new staff to administer it all.

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