Kibkom North Cyprus Forum

Having asked many times what the benefit to me is of Brexit the sound of silence has been deafening. Would any one like to give a clue please?

It's not possible to answer the question. The only person who would know what the benefits are to you is you.

The pros and cons for the UK are open to endless debate but I would say in my opinion the main benefit is independence and all things good or bad will stem from that depending on how we perform as a nation.

Johnerebus, perhaps a more exact question would be “what are the benefits of Brexit to British citizens worldwide”? Don’t expect an answer to that one either, unless anyone considers the loss of EU citizenship to be one of them!

Having asked many times what the benefit to me is of remaining in the EU, the sound of silence has been deafening. Would any one like to give a clue please?

Papa Bravo, Answering a question with a plagiarised question is avoidance. If you truly want your question answered please be polite enough to answer mine first then I will answer yours.

Waddo,

perhaps a more exact question would be “what are the benefits of Brexit to British citizens worldwide”?

Nope. My question was pertinent and clear. I would still like to know the benefits to me. If no one can answer why on earth did people vote to exit?

No-one can answer how it benefits you but you. It affects everyone differently.

The pros and cons have been done to death in the country and indeed on here - have a look in the Politics section.

It's done.

Let it go.

I have still yet to be given a benefit and it seems then people voted for a glorious(?) past that only existed in fairy tales fueled with nationalistic propaganda and sentimentality for a non existent yesteryear. No hard evidence based facts of one single benefit has been given.

Stop the world I want to get off please

So is this the 10 minute argument or the full half hour? You seem to just want a Brexit argument with anyone.

It's done - we're leaving.

Most people voted for a better future rather than a rose tinted past.

Let's see how we do over the next 10 years as a free trading nation and take stock from there.

Better to wait for the next 47 years to get a true tally on the score! I doubt any of us will still be around to moan about it by then anyway so what difference does it make? IMHO people did not vote for a better future rather than a rose tinted past! Most people - only those who voted of course - either were caught up in the hysteria of the time, believed what they read on social media, formulated an excuse that it was done for their children/grand children or just could not be bothered to understand what they were being told and trusted those who could promise the most. Personally - right or wrong - I voted for what I thought would be best for me, in the same way as people (my parents) voted for what they thought would be best for them years ago.

We will live with what we get in the end like we always have to as we have no control over what will happen next having put a showman in charge of the circus! I can see what people think they will have as benefits from Brexit but I lament the loss of my European Citizenship and freedom - hey ho, that's life.

I wish the UK and its people the best of luck and feel they will need every bit of it they can get. I am done with it now and will watch with interest - slight - the moans and groans on this and other boards about what happens between the North and the South as this is where I live and will till I end my days,

johnerebus wrote:I have still yet to be given a benefit and it seems then people voted for a glorious(?) past that only existed in fairy tales fueled with nationalistic propaganda and sentimentality for a non existent yesteryear. No hard evidence based facts of one single benefit has been given.

Stop the world I want to get off please

The part of your taxes that are currently sent to the EU budget will no longer be used to fund Nigel Farage's wages, his travel and living allowance between Brussels and Strasbourg, his subsidised champagne and Cuban cigars, his free Language lessons

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldn ... -MEPs.html

Each MEP takes home the same gross salary, regardless of how many years they’ve been in office - €8,757.70 (£7,650) per month, as of July 2018. That’s more than is earned by British MPs, who currently get £6,622 a month before tax.

MEPs also get a monthly general expenditure allowance of €4,513 (£3,945), to cover the cost of running an office in their constituency, including rent and supplies. This money pot “is highly controversial because the sum can be deposited directly into MEPs’ personal bank accounts - and they are not required to disclose how the money was spent”, says Euronews.

In addition, each MEP is given a daily allowance to cover the costs of accommodation in Brussels or Strasbourg, as well as a travel allowance of more than €4,000 (£3,495) per year on the condition that they provide receipts.

The biggest benefit is that the UK won’t become a state in a large country which many either ignored or dismissed the possibility out of hand. If the majority of people want that then fine that’s democracy but personally being stealthily dragged into a United States of Europe while the naive ignore what is happening didn’t sit right with me.

The said "advantage" of independence is no advantage at all it is simply isolationist. The UK will actively seek trade deals. Like any business deal there is give and take. Access to the UK as in freedoms to trade and visit would most certainly be on the list of negotiations.
The UK is a rapidly declining exporter of manufactured goods. The BRIC economies are now the factories of the world.
UK influence in the world continues to decline and the new isolationist and nationalistic approach will most certainly not put the UK and a stronger position to compete and succeed in a very geographically small, cosmopolitan and competitive trading environment,

waz-24-7 wrote:The said "advantage" of independence is no advantage at all it is simply isolationist.

I would guess that when our trade deals are sorted that we will be trading with more countries than we were pre-Brexit so I'm struggling to see how that is isolationist.

waz-24-7 wrote: Like any business deal there is give and take. Access to the UK as in freedoms to trade and visit would most certainly be on the list of negotiations.

Yep that's what negotiations are. When I bought my last car there was a price on the table in excess of what I eventually paid and likewise my original offer was more than I eventually paid.

waz-24-7 wrote:
The UK is a rapidly declining exporter of manufactured goods. The BRIC economies are now the factories of the world.

Yes we are a large net importer so a very desirable customer and I would imagine that the non EU BRIC economies are very interested in getting us to buy more from them. I'm struggling to see that as a problem.

waz-24-7 wrote:
UK influence in the world continues to decline and the new isolationist and nationalistic approach will most certainly not put the UK and a stronger position to compete and succeed in a very geographically small, cosmopolitan and competitive trading environment,

The world is the same size as it was pre-Brexit and us maybe looking more to the Pacific and Asia for new trade partners isn't more isolationist it's less. As for nationalistic I assume that's the myth that there are 17.4 million fascists in the UK who all voted for Brexit.
We are the 6th largest economy in the world so will get the respect that deserves and now will get to speak on our own behalf rather than having a 28th of a voice.

When Mr. Boris as the PM of an 'independent country' starts to negotiate a trade deal with Mr. Donald, does anyone really believe they are equal partners?

Cheetah wrote:When Mr. Boris as the PM of an 'independent country' starts to negotiate a trade deal with Mr. Donald, does anyone really believe they are equal partners?

When I used to negotiate my broadband deal with Virgin I was never under any illusion I had as much money as them but I used to do ok because I still had choices and was prepared to walk away. It's another negotiating tactic that

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:

Cheetah wrote:When Mr. Boris as the PM of an 'independent country' starts to negotiate a trade deal with Mr. Donald, does anyone really believe they are equal partners?

When I used to negotiate my broadband deal with Virgin I was never under any illusion I had as much money as them but I used to do ok because I still had choices and was prepared to walk away. It's another negotiating tactic that

One might think the trade negotiations between UK and US, EU, BRICS etc would be a bit more complicated than you negotiating with your broadband operator, but maybe they are all in the same level. Good grief. And God bless the Queen.

Cheetah wrote:
One might think the trade negotiations between UK and US, EU, BRICS etc would be a bit more complicated than you negotiating with your broadband operator, but maybe they are all in the same level. Good grief. And God bless the Queen.

Have you ever tried to talk to Virgin Broadband??
My point was that inequality of bargaining positions isn't always the be all and end all. If we can't get a suitable deal to buy cars from say Germany then Japan might like to step in and fill the gap with the 6th biggest economy in the world. Not many nations have an absolute monopoly on a type of good.

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:

Cheetah wrote:
One might think the trade negotiations between UK and US, EU, BRICS etc would be a bit more complicated than you negotiating with your broadband operator, but maybe they are all in the same level. Good grief. And God bless the Queen.

If we can't get a suitable deal to buy cars from say Germany then Japan might like to step in and fill the gap with the 6th biggest economy in the world.

Really? All those people who want to buy a BMW, Mercedes, VW or Audi would suddenly feel happy with Mitsubishi, Nissan or Subaru? I don´t get your point. Is that your view of a perfect after-Brexit trade deal?

Cheetah wrote:

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:

Cheetah wrote:
One might think the trade negotiations between UK and US, EU, BRICS etc would be a bit more complicated than you negotiating with your broadband operator, but maybe they are all in the same level. Good grief. And God bless the Queen.

If we can't get a suitable deal to buy cars from say Germany then Japan might like to step in and fill the gap with the 6th biggest economy in the world.

Really? All those people who want to buy a BMW, Mercedes, VW or Audi would suddenly feel happy with Mitsubishi, Nissan or Subaru? I don´t get your point. Is that your view of a perfect after-Brexit trade deal?

There are other car manufacturers in Japan and the Far East.....Kia, Hyundai, Honda, Toyota, Suzuki, Mazda. Some of those vehicles are even built in the U.K. Let’s face it if the cost of cars from say Germany become expensive due to some sort of tariff then those who can afford will continue to buy and a large proportion of “all those people” who cannot will turn to other makes/models.

PoshinDevon
Not forgetting of course, that the largest German carmaker had to fiddle the figures to compete with the Japanese!

Posh,
I'm afraid its not at all about the price of cars.

Its about the revenue, employment, taxes and associated advantages that being a supplier of cars to the EU brings to the UK economy.

Already, and without the threat of being outside the single market, the pressure on the UK car producers is increasing steadily.
For example,
Minis are now being built in the Netherlands.
Land rovers are being built in Slovakia.
Honda are in Belgium and will close Swindon plant.

The UK is very good at building cars. Any obstacle at all in getting the product to market; significantly weakens the UK position in this very competitive global industry.
Trade in general is increasingly a very volatile and often precarious equation. Simplicity, speed of supply and price are massive deciding factors.
I'm afraid the "new" UK stand alone trade initiative provides none of these advantages.

waz-24-7 wrote:Posh,
I'm afraid its not at all about the price of cars.

Its about the revenue, employment, taxes and associated advantages that being a supplier of cars to the EU brings to the UK economy.

Already, and without the threat of being outside the single market, the pressure on the UK car producers is increasing steadily.
For example,
Minis are now being built in the Netherlands.
Land rovers are being built in Slovakia.
Honda are in Belgium and will close Swindon plant.

The UK is very good at building cars. Any obstacle at all in getting the product to market; significantly weakens the UK position in this very competitive global industry.
Trade in general is increasingly a very volatile and often precarious equation. Simplicity, speed of supply and price are massive deciding factors.
I'm afraid the "new" UK stand alone trade initiative provides none of these advantages.

Please tell me where exactly did I say that its all about the price of cars? I was simply responding to a posting.

Brexit has happened and the U.K. has left the EU. This was always the start of a long journey but I feel that at last the stagnation has been removed and we can now press on. There is no point in chewing over history and regurgitating old arguments. I and millions of others are looking to the future positively and if I am honest I am letting myself smile a little at the EUs recent failings.

Our position is stronger than it has ever been for many years when it comes to negotiating with the EU and hopefully this will in turn benefit both sides.

waz-24-7 wrote:Posh,
I'm afraid its not at all about the price of cars.

Its about the revenue, employment, taxes and associated advantages that being a supplier of cars to the EU brings to the UK economy.

Already, and without the threat of being outside the single market, the pressure on the UK car producers is increasing steadily.
For example,
Minis are now being built in the Netherlands.
Land rovers are being built in Slovakia.
Honda are in Belgium and will close Swindon plant.

The UK is very good at building cars. Any obstacle at all in getting the product to market; significantly weakens the UK position in this very competitive global industry.
Trade in general is increasingly a very volatile and often precarious equation. Simplicity, speed of supply and price are massive deciding factors.
I'm afraid the "new" UK stand alone trade initiative provides none of these advantages.

Nothing to do with Brexit

Honda will be closing its factory in Swindon in July next year, a date that has been "set in stone". It announced it was shutting the site with the loss of 3,500 jobs due to global changes in the car industry and the need to launch electric vehicles.12 Feb 2020

well, yes, maybe nothing to do with brexit..
but you also could say that honda obviously can not see a future to produce electric cars in the UK.
eg,
Tesla is going to erect gigafactory 4 (1+2 in the US, 3 in shanghai) for up to 500.000 cars in germany.
Opel/PSA is going to build a 24 GWh battery manufacturing plant also in... germany.

Maybe they don’t have the vision, I should have said I copied and pasted the above. Waz is always trying to insinuate everything that’s going wrong is to do with Brexit, I was just pointing out that not always the case.

Not sure of the point of this post as it seems to be trying to resurrect a lost argument. In the auditing world we had an adage that auditors were sent in by management after the battle was over to bayonet the wounded! Still a lot of wounded around !

Let me be clear upon the economics within the automotive Industry. Particularly in the UK.
The UK has the most productive plant in Europe in the Nissan Plant in the North East. Other plants are also very productive providing the OEM models are popular within a very competitive market. The Mini is possibly the most profitable plant and car in Europe ( owned by BMW)

Prior to the BREXIT referendum Honda awarded Swindon plant with the very valuable Honda Civic production. For the European and USA markets. The two most currently lucrative markets. The Jazz and CRV were moved to Belgium. Honda Swindon at the time won the best model and deal.

Honda have identified threats to their UK production and abilities to supply markets. USA tariffs and access to the European markets from a facility that is outside the single market.

Call it what you want, read whatever you reason is correct. The announcement was a real shock but economically it adds up to BREXIT and the threat of tariffs.

Dalartokat wrote:Maybe they don’t have the vision, I should have said I copied and pasted the above. Waz is always trying to insinuate everything that’s going wrong is to do with Brexit, I was just pointing out that not always the case.

So we can agree that losing HONDA is a loss or "going wrong" to Swindon, the UK and the UK economy.
Yes, I do believe that many large corporations will leave the UK in preference to setting up shop within the single market. It makes perfect sense.

I await in some anticipations some investment news that will create jobs and boost the UK economy with much needed foreign trade.
Now that we have left but remain in a transition phase, I eagerly await these trade deals that are promised. Inward investment to the UK from offshore is something rather different and comes only with the prospect of advantage and profit.

I remain hopeful but I'm not holding my breath.

It’s done.
Maybe we can all hope that Britain will do well rather then hope that Britain is driven into poverty.