Trade Negotiations post Brexit. The position of the UK

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Re: Trade Negotiations post Brexit. The position of the UK

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Mowgli597 wrote:
Fri 22 May 2020 7:57 am
PoshinDevon wrote:
Thu 21 May 2020 7:32 pm
Please remain on topic.

Any further off topic posts will be deleted.
Mmmmm. Interesting.

Have a dig at Boris and the slap on the wrist comes very quickly.

Taking a topic about bottle tops into the realms of outside toilets and utility furniture (guilty, yer honour!) is left unscathed.

Just saying........ (:Q)
With the best will in the world moderators just don’t have the time to read every topic, not matter how exciting it may be. So if a member notices a thread going off topic or breaking forum rules they can always pm a moderator who will then take a look.

You could of course report yourself for taking the exciting thread about “bottle tops” off topic. (:Q)

This topic is about future trade agreements between the U.K. and the EU. So anything that falls outside of this should normally be a new topic.
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Re: Trade Negotiations post Brexit. The position of the UK

Post by Mowgli597 »

PoshinDevon wrote:
Fri 22 May 2020 8:36 am
With the best will in the world moderators just don’t have the time to read every topic, not matter how exciting it may be. So if a member notices a thread going off topic or breaking forum rules they can always pm a moderator who will then take a look.
And much appreciated the moderators are too!!
PoshinDevon wrote:
Fri 22 May 2020 8:36 am
You could of course report yourself for taking the exciting thread about “bottle tops” off topic. (:Q)
Hence the “guilty yer honour”!

But Sir, a big boy did it first and ran away!
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Thu 21 May 2020 10:01 am
I may as well join in, it's too hot.
Try twisting it clockwise then give it a "surprise" anti-clockwise twist.
Reminds me of the cistern in the outside toilet when I was little ;)

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Re: Trade Negotiations post Brexit. The position of the UK

Post by waz-24-7 »

PoshinDevon wrote:
Thu 21 May 2020 11:14 pm
waz-24-7 wrote:
Thu 21 May 2020 8:53 pm
As many know I am a pro European.
The task to go out and secure new trade deals and business was always going to be very challenging.
The certain global recession only makes that task even harder.
A trade deal with the EU is in my view essential. To secure this some alignment upon standards and rules will need to be accepted. The EU will not adjust its well established standards policies just to pacify the UK. We actually meet most already .

Free movement of people which has been one ticket of discontent within the BREXIT UK is clearly ( in very recent times)one that leaves many, including the government in a hypocritical position.
How can you threaten life saving care workers who work under the cloud of the ultimate sacrifice be told that they are not welcome in the all British UK.

Please provide evidence of who is making threats and who has said life saving care workers are not welcome

Tens of thousands of UK workers are losing their jobs every week. Businesses are failing on a daily basis. World recession is a certain.
The transition period should be extended until 2025. This will allow workers to keep their jobs and permit a level of world recovery. NEW trade deals are not top of anyone's agenda now or into next year. This type of negotiation whilst in recession and in a position of weakness does not give me confidence of a good trade deal.
I think to plough on regardless is folly.
There is absolutely no chance of the transition period being extended to 2025. The government would feel a wave of protest and it would be political suicide. The deadline to obtain a deal or not is approaching fast. It is this very deadline that will keep both sides focussed.

The government policy of inflicting a £400 fee on non UK nationals for use of the NHS is in my view threat enough to say we don't want you much.
This policy has however in recent hours been withdrawn. Presumably to save face for the very reason I have indicated.

Upon an extension to the transition. You may well be correct in that it will not be extended. This is in my view is indeed folly and will lead to even higher levels of pain and economic damage as businesses struggle to survive. New and often unknown legislation ( EU and UK) upon trade terms and business protocol will simply add to the pressures to survival. The focus you proclaim will not assist the businesses that are on the brink following COVID. BREXIT was bad enough without the catastrophic economic depression. extension is needed to save jobs and businesses.
The them and us war like mongering that is emerging is simply a 1930's nationalistic stance that has worrying longer term implications.

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Re: Trade Negotiations post Brexit. The position of the UK

Post by PoshinDevon »

waz-24-7 wrote:
Fri 22 May 2020 4:41 pm
PoshinDevon wrote:
Thu 21 May 2020 11:14 pm
waz-24-7 wrote:
Thu 21 May 2020 8:53 pm
As many know I am a pro European.
The task to go out and secure new trade deals and business was always going to be very challenging.
The certain global recession only makes that task even harder.
A trade deal with the EU is in my view essential. To secure this some alignment upon standards and rules will need to be accepted. The EU will not adjust its well established standards policies just to pacify the UK. We actually meet most already .

Free movement of people which has been one ticket of discontent within the BREXIT UK is clearly ( in very recent times)one that leaves many, including the government in a hypocritical position.
How can you threaten life saving care workers who work under the cloud of the ultimate sacrifice be told that they are not welcome in the all British UK.

Please provide evidence of who is making threats and who has said life saving care workers are not welcome

Tens of thousands of UK workers are losing their jobs every week. Businesses are failing on a daily basis. World recession is a certain.
The transition period should be extended until 2025. This will allow workers to keep their jobs and permit a level of world recovery. NEW trade deals are not top of anyone's agenda now or into next year. This type of negotiation whilst in recession and in a position of weakness does not give me confidence of a good trade deal.
I think to plough on regardless is folly.
There is absolutely no chance of the transition period being extended to 2025. The government would feel a wave of protest and it would be political suicide. The deadline to obtain a deal or not is approaching fast. It is this very deadline that will keep both sides focussed.

The government policy of inflicting a £400 fee on non UK nationals for use of the NHS is in my view threat enough to say we don't want you much.
This policy has however in recent hours been withdrawn. Presumably to save face for the very reason I have indicated.

Upon an extension to the transition. You may well be correct in that it will not be extended. This is in my view is indeed folly and will lead to even higher levels of pain and economic damage as businesses struggle to survive. New and often unknown legislation ( EU and UK) upon trade terms and business protocol will simply add to the pressures to survival. The focus you proclaim will not assist the businesses that are on the brink following COVID. BREXIT was bad enough without the catastrophic economic depression. extension is needed to save jobs and businesses.
The them and us war like mongering that is emerging is simply a 1930's nationalistic stance that has worrying longer term implications.
So in other words you could not name anyone who made a threat or said life saving care workers are not welcome.

I still believe no extension will happen, it simply would be political suicide after the promise of getting Brexit done. The first part has been done and now the government must ensure they keep up the momentum. Plus already having a deadline in place to obtain an trade agreement will focus the minds of both sides.
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Re: Trade Negotiations post Brexit. The position of the UK

Post by waz-24-7 »

Posh
Okay
Given that Brexit was about closing our borders to movement of "other people". Surely it is clear that these same "people" are not so welcome as before. That is in part BREXIT.
The government saw fit to impose a £400 NHS levy on these people to discourage their possible wish to enter the UK. Why else would they do it? The BREXIT public in pre COVID normal times were hoodwinked to believe this was a right and proper move.

How things have changed as the hero's of our NHS are indeed in part these same less desirables. Many of which have made the ultimate sacrifice for the good of their fellow man. Pedantic s on any singular threat from any particular person is not the point!

It may well be the case that a delay will not be forthcoming. That I do not debate.
My point is that in my opinion a headlong charge to meet current deadlines will certainly cause more damage to our economy, jobs and long term recovery.
I am quit certain that most businesses would support a delay whilst they focus on staying afloat.

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Re: Trade Negotiations post Brexit. The position of the UK

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waz-24-7 wrote:
Fri 22 May 2020 8:23 pm
Posh
Okay
Given that Brexit was about closing our borders to movement of "other people". Surely it is clear that these same "people" are not so welcome as before. That is in part BREXIT.
The government saw fit to impose a £400 NHS levy on these people to discourage their possible wish to enter the UK. Why else would they do it? The BREXIT public in pre COVID normal times were hoodwinked to believe this was a right and proper move.

How things have changed as the hero's of our NHS are indeed in part these same less desirables. Many of which have made the ultimate sacrifice for the good of their fellow man. Pedantic s on any singular threat from any particular person is not the point!

It may well be the case that a delay will not be forthcoming. That I do not debate.
My point is that in my opinion a headlong charge to meet current deadlines will certainly cause more damage to our economy, jobs and long term recovery.
I am quit certain that most businesses would support a delay whilst they focus on staying afloat.
The issue I have is the comment about threats being made and people are not welcome - that is completely incorrect as you haven’t produced a name or any evidence. It’s those sort of inflammatory comments that often make sensible debate difficult. I have to pay a fee to be able to remain in the TRNC for a period longer than 90days but I wasn’t threatened nor was I made to feel unwelcome. These are the rules of the TRNC which I accept.

My view is that there is a target date set for a trade agreement, this date will ensure that both sides will be focussed on getting a trade deal if at all possible. Extending the date will just mean being tied to the EU for even longer which will then cause further friction and division.
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Re: Trade Negotiations post Brexit. The position of the UK

Post by waz-24-7 »

PoshinDevon wrote:
Fri 22 May 2020 10:46 pm
waz-24-7 wrote:
Fri 22 May 2020 8:23 pm
Posh
Okay
Given that Brexit was about closing our borders to movement of "other people". Surely it is clear that these same "people" are not so welcome as before. That is in part BREXIT.
The government saw fit to impose a £400 NHS levy on these people to discourage their possible wish to enter the UK. Why else would they do it? The BREXIT public in pre COVID normal times were hoodwinked to believe this was a right and proper move.

How things have changed as the hero's of our NHS are indeed in part these same less desirables. Many of which have made the ultimate sacrifice for the good of their fellow man. Pedantic s on any singular threat from any particular person is not the point!

It may well be the case that a delay will not be forthcoming. That I do not debate.
My point is that in my opinion a headlong charge to meet current deadlines will certainly cause more damage to our economy, jobs and long term recovery.
I am quit certain that most businesses would support a delay whilst they focus on staying afloat.
The issue I have is the comment about threats being made and people are not welcome - that is completely incorrect as you haven’t produced a name or any evidence. It’s those sort of inflammatory comments that often make sensible debate difficult. I have to pay a fee to be able to remain in the TRNC for a period longer than 90days but I wasn’t threatened nor was I made to feel unwelcome. These are the rules of the TRNC which I accept.

My view is that there is a target date set for a trade agreement, this date will ensure that both sides will be focussed on getting a trade deal if at all possible. Extending the date will just mean being tied to the EU for even longer which will then cause further friction and division.
Hmm
So we must assume that the £400 NHS fee remains acceptable to you simply because there is a rule. Fortunately the Government have acknowledged the error and hypocrisy and have reversed the rule. The fact remains that many in the UK do not want imported labour or indeed people that are not British. Some of these may well even probably have been saved from death by these same undesirables

The target date is set...another type of rule I guess. That is little consolation to the thousands of small businesses that are on the brink of failure as they fight to stay afloat. Most would support an extension to enable some level of recovery. Boris must take this into consideration tho I think the BREXIT position will force him to neglect this in the interest of remaining in power.

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Re: Trade Negotiations post Brexit. The position of the UK

Post by PoshinDevon »

waz-24-7 wrote:
Sat 23 May 2020 1:08 pm
PoshinDevon wrote:
Fri 22 May 2020 10:46 pm
waz-24-7 wrote:
Fri 22 May 2020 8:23 pm
Posh
Okay
Given that Brexit was about closing our borders to movement of "other people". Surely it is clear that these same "people" are not so welcome as before. That is in part BREXIT.
The government saw fit to impose a £400 NHS levy on these people to discourage their possible wish to enter the UK. Why else would they do it? The BREXIT public in pre COVID normal times were hoodwinked to believe this was a right and proper move.

How things have changed as the hero's of our NHS are indeed in part these same less desirables. Many of which have made the ultimate sacrifice for the good of their fellow man. Pedantic s on any singular threat from any particular person is not the point!

It may well be the case that a delay will not be forthcoming. That I do not debate.
My point is that in my opinion a headlong charge to meet current deadlines will certainly cause more damage to our economy, jobs and long term recovery.
I am quit certain that most businesses would support a delay whilst they focus on staying afloat.
The issue I have is the comment about threats being made and people are not welcome - that is completely incorrect as you haven’t produced a name or any evidence. It’s those sort of inflammatory comments that often make sensible debate difficult. I have to pay a fee to be able to remain in the TRNC for a period longer than 90days but I wasn’t threatened nor was I made to feel unwelcome. These are the rules of the TRNC which I accept.

My view is that there is a target date set for a trade agreement, this date will ensure that both sides will be focussed on getting a trade deal if at all possible. Extending the date will just mean being tied to the EU for even longer which will then cause further friction and division.
Hmm
So we must assume that the £400 NHS fee remains acceptable to you simply because there is a rule. Fortunately the Government have acknowledged the error and hypocrisy and have reversed the rule. The fact remains that many in the UK do not want imported labour or indeed people that are not British. Some of these may well even probably have been saved from death by these same undesirables

The target date is set...another type of rule I guess. That is little consolation to the thousands of small businesses that are on the brink of failure as they fight to stay afloat. Most would support an extension to enable some level of recovery. Boris must take this into consideration tho I think the BREXIT position will force him to neglect this in the interest of remaining in power.
You can assume whatever you wish but that doesn’t make your assumption correct. As I have now mentioned 3 times, you have absolutely no proof that anyone was threatened or made to feel unwelcome. Throwing out assumpions and also ad hoc comments which cannot be backed up really isn’t the way to discuss or exchange views on a particular topic.

Government support for individuals and businesses during this pandemic has been unsurpassed and I am not sure the government could have done much more. The transition (sometimes called the implementation period) is due to last until 31 December 2020. I appreciate you hold a different viewpoint and would prefer an extension; which may happen, however I still maintain that having an end date target for both sides to work to will focus the minds of the negotiating teams. This will in turn hopefully lead to a trade deal that is fair and acceptable to both parties.
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Re: Trade Negotiations post Brexit. The position of the UK

Post by waz-24-7 »

PoshinDevon wrote:
Sat 23 May 2020 1:33 pm
waz-24-7 wrote:
Sat 23 May 2020 1:08 pm
PoshinDevon wrote:
Fri 22 May 2020 10:46 pm


The issue I have is the comment about threats being made and people are not welcome - that is completely incorrect as you haven’t produced a name or any evidence. It’s those sort of inflammatory comments that often make sensible debate difficult. I have to pay a fee to be able to remain in the TRNC for a period longer than 90days but I wasn’t threatened nor was I made to feel unwelcome. These are the rules of the TRNC which I accept.

My view is that there is a target date set for a trade agreement, this date will ensure that both sides will be focussed on getting a trade deal if at all possible. Extending the date will just mean being tied to the EU for even longer which will then cause further friction and division.
Hmm
So we must assume that the £400 NHS fee remains acceptable to you simply because there is a rule. Fortunately the Government have acknowledged the error and hypocrisy and have reversed the rule. The fact remains that many in the UK do not want imported labour or indeed people that are not British. Some of these may well even probably have been saved from death by these same undesirables

The target date is set...another type of rule I guess. That is little consolation to the thousands of small businesses that are on the brink of failure as they fight to stay afloat. Most would support an extension to enable some level of recovery. Boris must take this into consideration tho I think the BREXIT position will force him to neglect this in the interest of remaining in power.
You can assume whatever you wish but that doesn’t make your assumption correct. As I have now mentioned 3 times, you have absolutely no proof that anyone was threatened or made to feel unwelcome. Throwing out assumpions and also ad hoc comments which cannot be backed up really isn’t the way to discuss or exchange views on a particular topic.





Government support for individuals and businesses during this pandemic has been unsurpassed and I am not sure the government could have done much more. The transition (sometimes called the implementation period) is due to last until 31 December 2020. I appreciate you hold a different viewpoint and would prefer an extension; which may happen, however I still maintain that having an end date target for both sides to work to will focus the minds of the negotiating teams. This will in turn hopefully lead to a trade deal that is fair and acceptable to both parties.

Sorry but BREXIT has most certainly made immigrants less welcome. It really is an easy assumption to make. Immigration has already fallen.
The threat of NHS charges, entrance restriction, and other measures . Brexit, and a hostile reception has seen to that.

I agree that the "end" date will indeed focus minds. That however is not the point.
The point is that business is not ready for the yet unknown of a trade deal, its implications , rules and administration pressures particularly as they struggle to simply survive the current quite massive recession.
I suppose some Brexiteers want to finalise the out as soon as possible regardless. Folly in my view. In the absence of current difficulties I'm certain discussions would be very well reported and the government would be pushing forward. The silence however is deafening as I suspect the real threat of further serious loss is being assessed before further sensible consideration.

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Re: Trade Negotiations post Brexit. The position of the UK

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The U.K. is looking to introduce a points based system for those wishing to work and reside in the country. This is to ensure that those that do want to come to the U.K. have the skills that the country is looking for. It’s a system that works perfectly well in many countries. It was made very clear in the run up to the Brexit vote and also during the tortuous years thereafter that the U.K. was seeking to exercise more control on who enters the country. Its not about stopping people coming to the U.K. it is about exercising control. I see nothing wrong with a points based system.

However; we are digressing away from the topic which is about the ongoing trade negotiations.
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Re: Trade Negotiations post Brexit. The position of the UK

Post by waz-24-7 »

PoshinDevon wrote:
Sat 23 May 2020 11:12 pm
The U.K. is looking to introduce a points based system for those wishing to work and reside in the country. This is to ensure that those that do want to come to the U.K. have the skills that the country is looking for. It’s a system that works perfectly well in many countries. It was made very clear in the run up to the Brexit vote and also during the tortuous years thereafter that the U.K. was seeking to exercise more control on who enters the country. Its not about stopping people coming to the U.K. it is about exercising control. I see nothing wrong with a points based system.

However; we are digressing away from the topic which is about the ongoing trade negotiations.
I wonder therefore if other countries will also introduce points based barriers of entry for undesirables.
What would your point score be and which counties would deny you?

Perhaps TRNC and others will set restrictions against people of the wrong sort. We British are so lucky to enjoy many freedoms and privileges . How long can we expect such privileges after we select to restrict others and we depart from the long standing relationships with unions of one sort or another.
It works both ways. I think many take for granted their freedom to travel to for example Cyprus. You just cant have your cake and eat it.
I can see some points systems possibly based on:
criminal record?
military or government employment record?
trade union record?
education status?
skin colour?
religion?
skill levels?
health state?

We could so easily revert back to the 1930's when a certain dictator wished to even exterminate undesirables to strengthen the chosen race.

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Re: Trade Negotiations post Brexit. The position of the UK

Post by PoshinDevon »

I won’t make any comment about your last post Wax 24-7 apart from saying your comparisons are dissapointing.

This topic is now beginning to drift. Yes I am also guilty.

Let’s keep discussions here about the UKs future trade agreement with the EU.

If anyone wishes to start a topic about the NHS surcharge ( There is already a topic open on this) or the proposed points system for those wishing to come to the U.K. to work/settle, please feel free to do so.

If this topic continues to drift then it’s probably a sign that it has run its course and will then be locked.
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Re: Trade Negotiations post Brexit. The position of the UK

Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

waz-24-7 wrote:
Sat 23 May 2020 11:51 pm

We could so easily revert back to the 1930's when a certain dictator wished to even exterminate undesirables to strengthen the chosen race.
Well anyone who voted leave was of course a fascist.

One question would this certain dictator be the same one who wanted a European superstate with Germany as the dominant power within that superstate?

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Re: Trade Negotiations post Brexit. The position of the UK

Post by waz-24-7 »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Sun 24 May 2020 10:45 am
waz-24-7 wrote:
Sat 23 May 2020 11:51 pm

We could so easily revert back to the 1930's when a certain dictator wished to even exterminate undesirables to strengthen the chosen race.
Well anyone who voted leave was of course a fascist.

One question would this certain dictator be the same one who wanted a European superstate with Germany as the dominant power within that superstate?
Hmm
All facists? I don't think so.
However many of the hoodwinked unwittingly became rather right wing as isolationist and nationalistic propaganda was peddled to us non stop. Dominic Cummings did a superb job in his pied piper role. He remains far far too powerful. Hope he goes soon in light of current exposures.

Natzi domination was certainly on the agenda. Very different to the modern day Unions of co operation EU, USA, ...not perfect but a good basis of a truly democratic system of unity.

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