Poll - did Cummings break the rules ?

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Did Dominic Cummings break the Governments lock down rules ?

Yes
26
67%
Yes in spirit but not in the letter of the rules
6
15%
No
7
18%
 
Total votes: 39

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Poll - did Cummings break the rules ?

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Post by erol »

Just wondering what people think on this.

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Re: Poll - did Cummings break the rules ?

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Post by teatime »

Not sure about "rules", but he did not comply to the advice given by the government of which he was a big part of. I am beginning to believe he has something on Boris, which is why Boris is standing up for him. I think this could damage Boris more than anything he has/hasn't done up until now.

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Post by erol »

rules, laws guidelines - whatever it was that 10's of millions of ordinary people across the UK did abide by , some at huge personal sacrifice.

For a party that to a large degree won a landslide election victory on a 'the people vs elected politicians' ticket the optics here do not look good to me. DC actions are damaging but my take is they are no where near as damaging as the determination to support his actions and try and claim they were entirely within the rules, laws. guidelines that everyone else was following. If he is so essential to government I think a 'it was wrong, he is contrite, made bad judgement calls and understands that now' line would be a lot less damaging than the one taken to date. To me it just feels like 'its a serious issue but you are all just wrong / mistaken'. I am not sure that is going down to well with people regardless of any political bias or leanings they might have generally. Then again maybe it will all have blown over in a week.

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Re: Poll - did Cummings break the rules ?

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Post by PoshinDevon »

A view from the Spectator.

Not saying I agree with it all but it’s worth a read.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why ... is-family-

What I do agree with is there comment about people falling into two groups. There is no doubt those who have followed guidelines to the letter but then there will be many others who have not, to a greater or lesser degree. Many when asked the question what would you have done as a parent in similar circumstances suddenly turn into goldfish gasping for air. However; as they are not in government it matters not.

Cummings rather than hang around like a bad smell being chased by the pack of hyenas that is the press should go before he is brought down. However; there are still questions around other MPs who also did similar....travelling to visit relatives, attend a large funeral etc. Should they resign or be sacked?
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Post by erol »

PoshinDevon wrote:
Sun 24 May 2020 11:25 pm
However; there are still questions around other MPs who also did similar....travelling to visit relatives, attend a large funeral etc. Should they resign or be sacked?
Personally I think each case needs to be judged on it's merits. Things that strike me as germane re DC is his wife was know tested positive I believe ? He also was symptomatic. Driving such a distance when you know you are carrying the virus seems like reckless disregard for the safety of others to me. This element is I think key ? Then there is just the issue of if he lied about his subsequent movements whilst in the 14 day quarantine period, to Johnson or to the public in general. That also would matter to me when looking at other cases. Any MP who , knowing they or others they were with had the virus and then decided they would relocate over large distances should I think resign / be sacked imo. Any that went out in public whilst they knew they were positive should be sacked / resign. Any that lie about if they did these things and are found out , should be sacked / resign.

As to the spectator article it says

"If Dominic and his wife decided that they should travel to his parent’s house to isolate nearby so that his parents could look after their young child then that is a matter for them."

Yet Johnson told the public in press conference 18th march directly and explicitly that parents should NOT place their children in the care of grand parents , in high risk category because of their age. In case you missed it

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/c ... k-21717685

I could not get past that in the spectator piece to be honest and have not read past it. It was NOT a matter for parents to decide from as soon as the PM told the nation in live press conference they should not do this.

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Post by Groucho »

Dominic Cummings has been demonised for quite some time, the press clearly have an issue with him. They take every opportunity to stick the knife in. Next it will be the 'you only have to look at him' brigade.

Yes he is a bit unsavoury in an aesthetic sense and yes he does appear to have a lot of influence but does that mean his actions were beyond the pale? I tend to agree with the Spectator article that he was doing what he thought best in his family's circumstances. Move on - there's nothing to see here.
Last edited by Groucho on Mon 25 May 2020 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by frontalman »

teatime wrote:
Sun 24 May 2020 10:21 pm
Not sure about "rules", but he did not comply to the advice given by the government of which he was a big part of. I am beginning to believe he has something on Boris, which is why Boris is standing up for him. I think this could damage Boris more than anything he has/hasn't done up until now.
Cummings is to Johnson as was Campbell to Blair. Cummings is the engine, Boris is the Eton-educated puffed up windbag. If Cummings has to go (as he probably will), Boris will be like Milli Vanilli without the real singer.

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

Surprised this poll took so long to go up. 😀
The left hate Cummings because he is tactically very astute and beats them at elections so they have been going after him ever since the Brexit poll. Obviously there is nothing in his private life they can throw up so they have him under the microscope and pile on at any opportunity. So he is a hypocrite and we can add him to the thousands involved in politics who are. We will vote in a non smoking ban for everywhere but the Houses of Common. I will consistently try to stop private/selective education except for my kids and go vague on my own educational background etc etc etc.
Johnson has an 80 seat majority and has a high approval rating so he should keep Cummings if only because he boils the p#ss of the leftwaffe.
Let’s be honest if he replaces him with anyone good who the left fear then they will pile on after the new guy anyway.

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

frontalman wrote:
Mon 25 May 2020 5:30 am

Cummings is to Johnson as was Campbell to Blair. Cummings is the engine, Boris is the Eton-educated puffed up windbag. If Cummings has to go (as he probably will), Boris will be like Milli Vanilli without the real singer.
Or Milne was to Corbyn. That’s Seamus Milne the Winchester educated Stalinist. I think Boris parents wanted him to go to Winchester but it was more expensive than Eton so they cut their cloth.

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Post by waddo »

Did Cummings break the rules/fail to follow Government advice/put other people at risk by knowingly transmitting a virus from one part of the country to another? Yes he did. No if's, but's or maybe's, he has even admitted that is what he did. Let's not try to paper over the issue with excuses and feeling sorry for him and have compassion that he did it in the best interests of his child. That is what he did. It is beyond dispute.

The crux of the matter is that the PM is now forgiving and excusing him to the extent that he is once again giving his full support to yet another member of his staff. In much the same way as he stands behind Patel (her who has faded into the background recently) which I, personally, find to be worrying.

Yet another one of his floundering speeches, read off his briefing notes, from behind the safety of one of Cummings great three word slogans, appears to me to show him to be even more of a puppet than I had originally thought - sad, scruffy man that I could not trust nor follow anywhere, not even from curiosity!

So what happens now? I doubt the same sort of thing that happened to the farmer who was protecting his property by turning a shotgun on his intruders, after all he broke the rules as well by protecting himself and acting in his own best interests. But, he broke the rules so off to jail he went, if Cummings had done a similar thing maybe he would also be "quarantined" in a nice secluded cell - doubtful - he would just be forgiven again!

I think it will just blow over and the public will be forced to look in another direction - probably another great speech about how much money the PM has given to another project elsewhere!!! Smoke and mirrors is the name of the game in politics these days!

Make no mistake Johnson is just the clown at the front that the people like - because everyone likes a clown - but the decisions on how and what happens to the country are not made by him, unless he thinks those decisions would make him more popular! I have no doubt that many will disagree but everyone has an opinion and that is mine. No one man/woman is indispensable - if Cummings was run down by a bus today there would be another one along within minutes - he broke the rules, but had been forgiven - I hope the same thing applies to everyone else!!!
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Re: Poll - did Cummings break the rules ?

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

I do have a theory that the upper middle class Marxists of Islington just can’t get their heads around anyone leaving their little bubble to go to Durham where working class people live. “Ugh why would one want to go there, we already own their vote. Get your Palestinian flag and start campaigning in Hampstead, lovely places to get a Cappuccino there.”

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

waddo wrote:
Mon 25 May 2020 6:51 am
Did Cummings break the rules/fail to follow Government advice/put other people at risk by knowingly transmitting a virus from one part of the country to another? Yes he did. No if's, but's or maybe's, he has even admitted that is what he did. Let's not try to paper over the issue with excuses and feeling sorry for him and have compassion that he did it in the best interests of his child. That is what he did. It is beyond dispute.
585E8D6C-DE0D-4479-9199-07CEDB114694.jpeg

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

Maybe he cared about his child/family than how it would look?
If you have the skin of a rhino which he appears to have it’s a defence that has worked before.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... /labour.uk

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Post by erol »

Groucho wrote:
Mon 25 May 2020 4:02 am
Yes he is a bit unsavoury in an aesthetic sense and yes he does appear to have a lot of influence but does that mean his actions were beyond the pail? I tend to agree with the Spectator article that he was doing what he thought best in his family's circumstances. Move on - there's nothing to see here.
The problem is that vast numbers of 'ordinary' people , how ever they voted, did not do what was best for them in their family's circumstances but actively did things that were not best for them because the government said such behaviour was vital in the national fight against the virus. I think there is a lot of genuine and righteous anger out there from people across the political spectrum that themselves did not do what best for their family. I doubt many of them will continue to do so in the future, Why should they ?

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Post by erol »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Mon 25 May 2020 6:54 am
I do have a theory that the upper middle class Marxists of Islington just can’t get their heads around anyone leaving their little bubble to go to Durham where working class people live. “Ugh why would one want to go there, we already own their vote. Get your Palestinian flag and start campaigning in Hampstead, lovely places to get a Cappuccino there.”
I have a theory that many people, whoever they voted for, who had themselves made personal sacrifices in regards to themselves and their family, some to extreme degrees like not seeing dying loved ones in their final days or of staying home when they were infected even though they had children to look after are understandably upset at being told now ' you could and should have just done what was best for your family'.

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Post by waddo »

Erol, I think your "Theory" is smack on the money! I also believe that if "Ordinary" people had done what Cummings had done they would have received a fine at the very least!

I think that Boris is now playing the "They are only the people and they are thick, so they will believe anything we say" card, but this time he has made a mistake - I hope it is the last one he is allowed to make!

ETS, So it is ok to risk the health and lives of others by transferring a virus over 200 miles because you have an "Exceptional Circumstance" then?

From the 16 year old article above - "It is very sad. The first thing that Diane said to me was that she had been utterly selfish and self-serving," he said. If Cummings had said that then I would have had more time for him, sadly he did not and deserves everything he gets, if he gets anything that is.
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Post by PoshinDevon »

Cummings being in a position of influence is of course going to be subject to intense scrutiny.

I still ask the question what would you do as a parent in the same situation? Should Dr Harries words about parents unable to look after a small child rightly be classified as exceptional circumstances? Should other MPs who have travelled be sacked or asked to resign?

There is in my opinion plenty of “I am offended” or taking the high ground out there, not only the press but those who think they know or understand the full story. There is no doubt a concerted campaign by those who have an agenda and simply do not like Cummings. He does I will agree appear as slightly odd, has a tendency to rub people up the wrong way, ruffle feathers and upset the establishment and press. I am pretty convinced there are many who will have travelled for lot less convincing reasons over the last 8 weeks, but they are not high profile or a target for media outrage. Those with an agenda who will stop at nothing until he has gone.

Finally; it has been reported that Mr Cummings child suffers from autism and rightly is not something the family wish to expose to the press or public. I have no idea if this is correct or not but if this is the case then does this place a different perspective on this whole saga? Autistic children would be best placed with people they are familiar with so as not to heighten their condition. So as a parent what would you do?

I still think that he should step down but it does make me concerned the way that this whole saga has unfolded.
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Post by erol »

The wider problem here I see it is that it is perfectly within the realms of possibility that by defending DC in the way that he has the outcome is that going forward government rules/ guidelines / laws will be ignored by significantly more people than ever before, that in turn could lead to a significant increase in infection spread just as the numbers are consistently trending down and the UK is starting to ease restrictions on people. Yes this is 'speculation' but it is not wild extreme speculation imo. If there is any increase in the spread of the virus because of the way Johnson has chosen to defend DC then I suggest this is a pretty serious national issue ?

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Post by Soner »

Maybe, just maybe, he should have seeked permission first from the PM, as we had to from the police when we had the total lockdown. My Two Cents
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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

waddo wrote:
Mon 25 May 2020 8:54 am

If Cummings had said that then I would have had more time for him, sadly he did not and deserves everything he gets, if he gets anything that is.
Of course if he just apologised.....
Think he is a bit too shrewd to fall for the classic pile on tactic of getting a confession tbh

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Post by Dalartokat »

Soner wrote:
Mon 25 May 2020 9:14 am
Maybe, just maybe, he should have seeked permission first from the PM, as we had to from the police when we had the total lockdown. My Two Cents
Absolutely like you would in any place work consult your employer first.

If he had done that then Boris Johnson could have stopped the media meltdown over it and we could have moved on.

If this story, according to LBC news, runs in the headlines for more than 11 days then he will either be sacked or resign and that 29% of the population in U.K. have not obeyed the rules. Doesn't make any of this right except lessons learned.
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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

In the interests a balance I can hand on heart say that had it have been Dianne Abbott four months ago under Corbyn I would have prayed he didn’t sack her or her resign because I believe she was doing a very good job and a real vote getter 😀

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Post by erol »

PoshinDevon wrote:
Mon 25 May 2020 8:59 am
I still ask the question what would you do as a parent in the same situation? Should Dr Harries words about parents unable to look after a small child rightly be classified as exceptional circumstances?
The point to me is that significant members of the public, where the parent(s) of children were infected or symptomatic, did not seek to leave their primary residence in case they were subsequently hospitalised and thus the child left without care. They sucked it up and toughed it out and stayed in their primary home and did not move to be closer to family or friends that could care for their child / children because they believed that was what they were being told to do, in the national interest over their personal interest. These people have now effectively been told they acted 'irresponsibly' and without 'integrity' and were in effect stupid for having done this.
PoshinDevon wrote:
Mon 25 May 2020 8:59 am
Should other MPs who have travelled be sacked or asked to resign?
DC is not an MP btw. I think anyone who travelled such distances while knowing they were infected or symptomatic because that was what they thought was in the best interests of themselves and their family has serious questions to answer.
PoshinDevon wrote:
Mon 25 May 2020 8:59 am
There is in my opinion plenty of “I am offended” or taking the high ground out there, not only the press but those who think they know or understand the full story.
Is that not one of the problems here ? That we do not know the full story ? That no definitive statement has been made about issue like , when travelling the 260 miles knowingly infected / symptomatic where and when did they stop and to what degree if any did they come in to contact with others ? Or any clarity on where and when DC and his family may have subsequently travelled to once they had relocated from London to Durham whilst symptomatic ?
PoshinDevon wrote:
Mon 25 May 2020 8:59 am
I am pretty convinced there are many who will have travelled for lot less convincing reasons over the last 8 weeks, but they are not high profile or a target for media outrage.
Did they travelled as far , whilst knowing they were symptomatic and were they instrumental in drawing up the guidelines and slogans fed to the public like 'stay at home, save lives' ? We know that in Scotland someone who travelled less far not whilst knowingly being symptomatic did stand down / resign exactly because not doing so undermined the government there message, which in turn has a really chance of being correlated to how much we are able to limit the damage of this virus.
PoshinDevon wrote:
Mon 25 May 2020 8:59 am
Those with an agenda who will stop at nothing until he has gone.
This is true but it does not mean that millions without an agenda are not justified in being angry and upset at how this is all turning out.
PoshinDevon wrote:
Mon 25 May 2020 8:59 am
Autistic children would be best placed with people they are familiar with so as not to heighten their condition. So as a parent what would you do?
I have in the past worked with autistic children and their families. What I would have done if I were say a single parent with an autistic child and I either tested positive or became symptomatic would have been to seek to put in place a contingency plan should I become so sick that I was unable to look after my child at home myself, that would have sought to have them cared for by someone I trust and was know to my child and ideally at my home if I was hospitalised as changes to environment and routine can be extremely upsetting to autistic children. Every parent of an autistic child has local support structures in place exactly because they might suddenly find themselves unable to care for their child themselves. Such support structures are always in place to some degree and always with a degree of locality in them. Parents of autistic children often need and use forms of temporary respite care for their children to give themselves and other non autistic children they might have a break from the pressures involved. I find it inconceivable that a responsible parent of an autistic child with integrity would only have one option for care of their child if they were incapacitated that was grand parents 260 mile remote.

Whilst I accept it is true that there are those with an agenda of 'get rid of DC' I also think it is true that there are those with an agenda of 'protect DC' who will stop at nothing trying to defend him regardless of what he may or may not have done.

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

Sorry to go off topic but can Soner or Posh help as I think the search facility isn’t working.
I’m trying to find the result on Erol’s poll on this story

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ather-neil

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Post by Groucho »

Soner wrote:
Mon 25 May 2020 9:14 am
Maybe, just maybe, he should have seeked permission first from the PM, as we had to from the police when we had the total lockdown. My Two Cents
Do we know for sure he didn't seek permission ?
Do we know for sure he transported Covid-19?

There appear to be a lot of statements of 'fact' and claims of 100% accuracy, but frankly I find the righteous indignation a bit much... and I'm not keen on the fellow.

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Post by erol »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Mon 25 May 2020 9:43 am
Sorry to go off topic but can Soner or Posh help as I think the search facility isn’t working.
I’m trying to find the result on Erol’s poll on this story

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ather-neil

I enjoy the slant, targeted by police.
Don’t forget to donate a pound if you read and keep this very popular newspaper afloat
Did Stephen Kinnock do this whilst knowingly being infected or symptomatic ? Was he instrumental in drawing up the Governments policy and slogans for how the public should behave ? Was he then robustly defended by the PM for his actions ?

A cynic might imagine you are with intent comparing apples with oranges because doing suits your personal political agenda ?

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Post by erol »

Groucho wrote:
Mon 25 May 2020 9:50 am
Do we know for sure he transported Covid-19?
We know for sure he knew his wife was symptomatic and believed his wife to have almost certainly have the virus when they chose to travel and that there was a high chance he already had it or soon would. This is the whole basis on which the defence of 'essential' is based. We also know that on average the highest point of infectiousness of this virus is a from a few days before symptoms manifest to a few after.

We do not know if he had first sought and got permission from the PM to make this journey but if he had and did it begs the question why the government / pm have not just said this as soon as the story broke ?

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

erol wrote:
Mon 25 May 2020 9:51 am
Did Stephen Kinnock.......
But......but....but........

1.Tory Man drives 200 miles to secure safe care for his son while suffering from Covid-19 = outrage


2.Emma Thompson flies 2000 miles by airplane to protest with extinction rebellion = silence

Still waiting to hear back from Soner and Posh, do you have a link to the poll?

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

erol wrote:
Mon 25 May 2020 9:51 am

A cynic might imagine you are with intent comparing apples with oranges because doing suits your personal political agenda ?
A cynic might also think that your polls are extremely selective and choreographed with a pile on the suits your personal political agenda.

Let’s say Cummings apologises, will that be enough? I think we both know the honest answer to that and the real reason why

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Re: Poll - did Cummings break the rules ?

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Post by erol »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Mon 25 May 2020 10:03 am
erol wrote:
Mon 25 May 2020 9:51 am
Did Stephen Kinnock.......
But......but....but........

1.Tory Man drives 200 miles to secure safe care for his son while suffering from Covid-19 = outrage


2.Emma Thompson flies 2000 miles by airplane to protest with extinction rebellion = silence

Still waiting to hear back from Soner and Posh, do you have a link to the poll?
A cynic might imagine that the above is a specific attempt to avoid and swerve entirely the point that WAS being made and instead to merely distract from it by obfuscation.

So ETS do you believe and indeed expect any one else to believe that had it been SM that did this under a Labour government you would be defending him and the PM as you currently appear to be defending DC and Johnson ?

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Re: Poll - did Cummings break the rules ?

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Post by erol »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Mon 25 May 2020 10:09 am
erol wrote:
Mon 25 May 2020 9:51 am

A cynic might imagine you are with intent comparing apples with oranges because doing suits your personal political agenda ?
A cynic might also think that your polls are extremely selective and choreographed with a pile on the suits your personal political agenda.
Of course there is an element of that. The difference is I do not deny this and seek to make out that only other people do this and not myself.
EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Mon 25 May 2020 10:09 am
Let’s say Cummings apologises, will that be enough? I think we both know the honest answer to that and the real reason why
I think the chances of real material national damage that might result from people who to date have not been ignoring government advise now doing so would be materially less if he were to apologise vs the 'staunch defence and denial of any wrong doing what so ever' we have currently seen.

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Re: Poll - did Cummings break the rules ?

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Post by erol »

And gratuitously and in order to annoy you ETS here is the change.org link calling for DC's sacking for anyone who might feel inclined to sign this petition.

http://chng.it/tzjx77LR4z

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Re: Poll - did Cummings break the rules ?

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

erol wrote:
Mon 25 May 2020 10:16 am


Of course there is an element of that. The difference is I do not deny this and seek to make out that only other people do this and not myself.
Thank you for your honesty.

Cummings is feared by Labour because he is very capable at what he does so the backlash is manufactured to try to get rid of him. Were in anyone else bar Johnson I doubt we would see the same pile on.
I assume his private life must be blemish free to the point of sainthood because I would imagine there has been some pretty ferocious digging over the last 4 years.
Whether or not he was personally in favour of a lockdown I have no idea but it certainly shows hypocrisy and arrogance to believe you are above the rules.
The faux manufactured outrage is also hypocritical and to be shocked to be called on it does show an element of arrogance imo.

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Re: Poll - did Cummings break the rules ?

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

erol wrote:
Mon 25 May 2020 10:13 am

So ETS do you believe and indeed expect any one else to believe that had it been SM that did this under a Labour government you would be defending him and the PM as you currently appear to be defending DC and Johnson ?
SM equals Milne?
I can safely say that Corbyn would be defending him with his life and would bet my left nut you wouldn’t have a poll up.
I’m not defending Cummings or Johnson I’m just calling you and your fellow travellers on the faux outrage you are manufacturing.

Eg;
1. Man with Covid-19 drives his child to the safety of his aunties house while he and his wife re-couperate = lefty meltdown
2. A man who enjoys grooming children drives someone else's child to his aunties house for gangbang = lefty silence

I note we didn’t get a poll up from you when Stephen Kinnock visited dear old Dad, you might also have noticed I never made comment on it until now.

Personally I hope Johnson sees what this is really about and keeps Cummings on. If he thinks sacking him or Cummings apologising will make an iota of difference to the pile on then he will be a fool.

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Re: Poll - did Cummings break the rules ?

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

A7701AA8-C99D-4CA6-87D0-E5407E4180FC.jpeg
I think we can probably leave hacking his phone in Piers capable hands tbh

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Re: Poll - did Cummings break the rules ?

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Post by PoshinDevon »

Erol,

I understand you want to make your point but having read thro your dissection of my post I am finding it difficult to follow your response. Maybe it’s just me.

BTW I am well aware Cummings is not an MP. My point was that at least two MPs have been found to be travelling to see relatives or attend a funeral and yet there has been no action taken, they have not resigned nor have they been hounded by the press. You said....did they travel as far as Cummings. From what I have read or seen in the MSM it seems they did travel a fair distance but whether they travelled as far as Cummings or less distance than Cummings is irrelevant, the fact is they travelled. Cummings is being hounded not just because he and his family travelled but also because the press and others have an agenda and do not like the man.

I will say again, I have said at least twice that I feel Cummings should step down. Whilst I am not convinced that’s he has done something really really bad, it is more because he is in a high profile position and he should take one for the team.

Dr Harries gave out some advice re vulnerable children back on March 24th, is this not relevant? You seem to have overlooked this. With regards to his child possibly being autistic; then I do believe that any parent would do what is best for the child. We have a close relative who’s child was found to be autistic and many times they explained to us that being left/looked after or cared for by people that child knew well was always preferable. Placing a vulnerable child in a stressful situation is unacceptable. Did Cummings have an opportunity to make a contingency plan which did not involve travelling; who knows, I certainly don’t.

The issue I have is more about how the “I am offended” brigade and the media have jumped all over this. There is so much; dare I say “crap” being circulated that its very difficult to really get to the true story. Sadly far too many suck up the rubbish being thrown out.

I think I have made my point about people in glass houses throwing stones but on a human level I still believe that most parents would do what they thought best for their child at the time.

Who knows maybe in the next day or so more “factual” information will come to light which may help our understanding because at present things are heavily biased the other way. Until then I will refrain from further comment.
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Re: Poll - did Cummings break the rules ?

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072CFFA0-2D70-4842-8D3B-54FB7139BD7B.jpeg
Oops 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

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Re: Poll - did Cummings break the rules ?

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

PoshinDevon wrote:
Mon 25 May 2020 11:28 am

Dr Harries gave out some advice re vulnerable children back on March 24th, is this not relevant?
To be fair Posh the needs of vulnerable children aren’t always as paramount as you’d think
1382A5BB-58D6-4A97-9761-FF934464085E.jpeg

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Re: Poll - did Cummings break the rules ?

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Post by Groucho »

So just for clarity are we saying anyone who broke the rules should be sacked?

Only the retired need to feel safe...

I think bosses wanting an excuse to get rid of employees will be rubbing their hands with glee... all you need is trial by media... no due process, the unions bypassed.

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Re: Poll - did Cummings break the rules ?

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

To help out Erol, there’s an article in The Guardian that say’s by backing the hated Cummings, the hated Johnson has laid bare his disdain for the British public, i.e. Guardian readers.
It goes on that they're both finished now, I think they mean Cummings & Johnson, not both Guardian readers.
And then finishes with send us a pound.

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Re: Poll - did Cummings break the rules ?

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

Groucho wrote:
Mon 25 May 2020 12:16 pm
So just for clarity are we saying anyone who broke the rules should be sacked?
Or move to the Labour Party to explain that if you forget to visit Durham and the like you lose elections in a big way?

Also Cummings can find Durham which is more than most of the Labour luvvies can manage.

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Re: Poll - did Cummings break the rules ?

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Post by erol »

Does it make a difference if someone breaking the rules

a - had nothing to do with formulating the rules they were breaking.
b- was instrumental in formulating the rules they were breaking.

Is it more serious to go out of your house if you

a - are not symptomatic and show no signs of having the virus.
b - are symptomatic or known to be infected when you go out.

If people do go out when they know they are infected is it worse if

a - they travel a short distance and never come within 2 meters of anyone else
b - they travel a long distance that would require stops on the way and possibility of coming into contact with others.


I really do not know how to be clearer about MY views on if anyone who breaks the rules should be sacked or not. If DC is so vital to this government that they really can not do without him, then it would clearly imo have been less damaging to the country if there was some contrition shown rather than blanket denial. The judgement should be being made on does option a create more chance of negative outcomes nationally by it leading to significantly more people ignoring rules/ advice / laws going forward than option b.

It is clear some here are pushing a narrative that the only people upset by this are those who have always had it in for DC and or Johnson and are just expressing faux outrage to further that agenda. Maybe they sincerely believe this. I just am not seeing it myself. I think the outrage is much much wider than this and sincere and genuine from many ordinary people including those who voted for Brexit and Johnson in the last election as well as those who did not. The PM yesterday literally told families across the country that had made significant personal sacrifices that they simply did not care about their children, their families, their loved ones as much as DC did and it was their failure to understand the government rules properly that led them to make such sacrifices. Anyone, Brexit supporter or not, Tory voter or not, who made hard and difficult choices that involved putting the interest of nation and following government guidelines ahead of the interests of themselves their family, loved ones and children, can only be angered by Johnson's defence of DC and the nature of it. I think there are many such people in the UK in this situation and I do not think telling them they are just pretending to be upset because they dislike DC or the government will wash with them.

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Re: Poll - did Cummings break the rules ?

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Post by Groucho »

erol wrote:
Mon 25 May 2020 1:31 pm
Does it make a difference if someone breaking the rules

a - had nothing to do with formulating the rules they were breaking.
b- was instrumental in formulating the rules they were breaking.

Is it more serious to go out of your house if you

a - are not symptomatic and show no signs of having the virus.
b - are symptomatic or known to be infected when you go out.

If people do go out when they know they are infected is it worse if

a - they travel a short distance and never come within 2 meters of anyone else
b - they travel a long distance that would require stops on the way and possibility of coming into contact with others.


I really do not know how to be clearer about MY views on if anyone who breaks the rules should be sacked or not. If DC is so vital to this government that they really can not do without him, then it would clearly imo have been less damaging to the country if there was some contrition shown rather than blanket denial. The judgement should be being made on does option a create more chance of negative outcomes nationally by it leading to significantly more people ignoring rules/ advice / laws going forward than option b.

It is clear some here are pushing a narrative that the only people upset by this are those who have always had it in for DC and or Johnson and are just expressing faux outrage to further that agenda. Maybe they sincerely believe this. I just am not seeing it myself. I think the outrage is much much wider than this and sincere and genuine from many ordinary people including those who voted for Brexit and Johnson in the last election as well as those who did not. The PM yesterday literally told families across the country that had made significant personal sacrifices that they simply did not care about their children, their families, their loved ones as much as DC did and it was their failure to understand the government rules properly that led them to make such sacrifices. Anyone, Brexit supporter or not, Tory voter or not, who made hard and difficult choices that involved putting the interest of nation and following government guidelines ahead of the interests of themselves their family, loved ones and children, can only be angered by Johnson's defence of DC and the nature of it. I think there are many such people in the UK in this situation and I do not think telling them they are just pretending to be upset because they dislike DC or the government will wash with them.
Is it a fact or an assumption that he was instrumental in formulating the rules?

I don't see much difference in how far - out in a car is out ... most RTA occur within a short distance from home, then you would meet people.

His reason for taking his kids to stay with grandparents I would liken to war-time evacuation - he thought a bomb may have landed on their home but not detonated...

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Re: Poll - did Cummings break the rules ?

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Post by erol »

PoshinDevon wrote:
Mon 25 May 2020 11:28 am
The issue I have is more about how the “I am offended” brigade and the media have jumped all over this. There is so much; dare I say “crap” being circulated that its very difficult to really get to the true story. Sadly far too many suck up the rubbish being thrown out.
For the record I am not personally offended. I can and do however understand why anyone who themselves made sacrifices for national interest by following gov rules rather than just doing what was best for themselves or their own children would be offended. Offended by DC not doing as they did and then even more offended by Johnson telling them that they did not care for their children or loved ones as much as DC did.

These people exist. They are real. Many many people DID make real and heartbreaking sacrifices. From all sorts of communities and political back grounds. At the extreme end are those who did not visit their terminally ill children or parents before they died. These people are not 'stupid'. These people are not 'misled by the media'. These people are angry and righteously so imo. Telling them that most people who cared about their children or loved ones would have ignored the rules they did not ignore will not mollify their anger either.

But it is true I am not one of these people. I am however someone who cares about the UK. I do think there is a real and valid concern, expressed by many and not just those who have always been out to get DC or Johnson that the way Johnson has handled this could well translate in to vastly more people ignoring government guidelines / rules going forward and that could have serious and real and significant negative outcomes for the UK nationally.

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Re: Poll - did Cummings break the rules ?

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

erol wrote:
Mon 25 May 2020 1:31 pm
have been less damaging to the country if there was some contrition
Erol, will a confession be enough or does he need to name other conspirators as well?

https://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/m ... -the-ussr/

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Re: Poll - did Cummings break the rules ?

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Post by erol »

Groucho wrote:
Mon 25 May 2020 1:50 pm
Is it a fact or an assumption that he was instrumental in formulating the rules?
Are you seriously suggesting that it is any where near reasonable doubt that he was not instrumental in formulating the governments response to the virus and the messaging that it put out to people ? He is the most senior and powerful adviser to the PM and possibly the most influential ever. He sat on SAGE. The slogans like 'stay at home, save lives' is hallmark Cummings. With all due respect I think to even ask this question smacks of desperation even ignoring that if it were true than he played no part in formulating the rules then why has no one said this ?
Groucho wrote:
Mon 25 May 2020 1:50 pm
I don't see much difference in how far - out in a car is out ... most RTA occur within a short distance from home, then you would meet people.
What are the chances that on a 260 mile journey with a 5 year old child you would not have to stop ? You think that makes no difference when those making the journey believe themselves to be infectious ?
Groucho wrote:
Mon 25 May 2020 1:50 pm
His reason for taking his kids to stay with grandparents I would liken to war-time evacuation - he thought a bomb may have landed on their home but not detonated...
Do you doubt that there were people in the UK who lived in places like London who thought that their children would be safer if they took them out of London to stay with grand parents or the whole family to stay with grand parents but who did NOT do this because of the Gov rules ? Parents who were symptomatic who did not do this ? These people exist. I for one one will not be telling them they were the stupid ones for not doing what DC did.I will not be telling them they did not love their children as much as DC does his. I for one will not be telling them they were the 'exception' and than most normal parents would have done what DC did. Are you telling THEM these things Groucho ?

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Re: Poll - did Cummings break the rules ?

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Post by erol »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Mon 25 May 2020 1:57 pm
erol wrote:
Mon 25 May 2020 1:31 pm
have been less damaging to the country if there was some contrition
Erol, will a confession be enough or does he need to name other conspirators as well?

https://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/m ... -the-ussr/
Do you honestly and seriously doubt that what DC did and how Johnson has reacted to it to date will have real and material consequences in terms of how many people continue to follow government guidelines going forward or not ?

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Re: Poll - did Cummings break the rules ?

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

erol wrote:
Mon 25 May 2020 2:13 pm
EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Mon 25 May 2020 1:57 pm
erol wrote:
Mon 25 May 2020 1:31 pm
have been less damaging to the country if there was some contrition
Erol, will a confession be enough or does he need to name other conspirators as well?

https://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/m ... -the-ussr/
Do you honestly and seriously doubt that what DC did and how Johnson has reacted to it to date will have real and material consequences in terms of how many people continue to follow government guidelines going forward or not ?
Apparently Cummings is going to do a press conference, wetting yourself for a confession and he names Johnson as a co-conspirator???????

I'm thinking of doing a clap for Dominic day if anyone wants to join in?

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Re: Poll - did Cummings break the rules ?

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

erol wrote:
Mon 25 May 2020 2:10 pm

I for one one will not be telling them they were the stupid ones for not doing what DC did.I will not be telling them they did not love their children as much as DC does his. I for one will not be telling them they were the 'exception' and than most normal parents would have done what DC did. Are you telling THEM these things Groucho ?
Translation I for one only really care that this gets Cummings to resign or be sacked.

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