Poll - did Cummings break the rules ?

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Did Dominic Cummings break the Governments lock down rules ?

Yes
26
67%
Yes in spirit but not in the letter of the rules
6
15%
No
7
18%
 
Total votes: 39

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Re: Poll - did Cummings break the rules ?

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Post by erol »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Thu 28 May 2020 6:17 pm
02730FE8-B5D5-4FB7-9C7F-F561F3FE884A.jpeg

From the day after the Cummings tv interview.
Just to note that the Conservatives took 43.6% of the vote in the December election so their support is draining away due to their handling of the Coronavirus crisis and the Cummings affair. Obviously the bounce from replacing Corbyn is a factor too
The fieldwork for this poll was done between 22-26 May. How about I pledge to pay £10 for every % point the Conservative are up on next months poll to a charity of your choice and you pay £10 for every % point they drop to charity of my choice ?
Last edited by erol on Thu 28 May 2020 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by erol »

kerry 6138 wrote:
Thu 28 May 2020 5:48 pm
But you did feel the need to find out the opinions of kibcom members with the poll on Cummins, did I miss the other miscreants polls or were they of no interest ?
I did not do polls for anyone else that had broken the rules because I did not feel that there was such widespread genuine anger with other cases before and being the kind of person I am I did not just feel it and think , I feel it therefore it must be true. I instead 'tested' that feeling / assumption by creating the poll here exactly because my political leanings are a minority view here. The result to date has matched my initial feeling, matches the yougov polling. The idea that I started it to gloat is understandable I guess , especially to those who have their own political leanings but all I can do is tell the truth, I did not start it with any conscious desire to gloat. I started it because I was curious. Call me a liar if you like, believe I am a liar if you like. I really do not care because I know how true this is in a way no one else possibly can.

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Re: Poll - did Cummings break the rules ?

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Post by erol »

PoshinDevon wrote:
Thu 28 May 2020 7:13 pm
I have taken a very quick look at my posts on this topic and can see I have asked a number of questions which have not been answered. Some I have asked more than once. I won’t bother highlighting them as I know it’s a pointless exercise.
You feel I have not answered your questions. I feel you have not answered mine.

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Re: Poll - did Cummings break the rules ?

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

erol wrote:
Thu 28 May 2020 7:57 pm
EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Thu 28 May 2020 6:17 pm
02730FE8-B5D5-4FB7-9C7F-F561F3FE884A.jpeg

From the day after the Cummings tv interview.
Just to note that the Conservatives took 43.6% of the vote in the December election so their support is draining away due to their handling of the Coronavirus crisis and the Cummings affair. Obviously the bounce from replacing Corbyn is a factor too
The fieldwork for this poll was done between 22-26 May. How about I pledge to pay £10 for every % point the Conservative are up on next months poll to a charity of your choice and you pay £10 for every % point they drop to charity of my choice ?
The fieldwork for this poll was done right in the middle of the Cummings thing. Just interesting that after the Conservatives have been in power for 5 months and proved they are fascists by attacking immigrants and incompetent at not using hindsight during the coronavirus crisis they are even more popular. :)

As for the bet I put up enough bets where somebody says A and I say it won't and i'll give you odds that it wont which generally makes them rapidly change the subject so in a coin flip I won't be picking tails after 12 tails where at best the odds are 50/50 thanks. When you are really popular it is harder to get more popular than get less popular.

Good tactics though. Its a bit like you answering a question with 4 questions and then when the person complains you haven't answered their question you complain that you haven't answered their one question because they haven't answered your four questions.

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Post by erol »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Fri 29 May 2020 8:20 am
When you are really popular it is harder to get more popular than get less popular.
I understood your point to be the Cummings affair has not affected polls on people's voting intention ? I think you are just calling it too early a bit like when you used lack of excess deaths in ONS figures to show that more people were not dying than normal. So OK If there is not a drop in Con figures next month, Ill pay £50 to a charity of your choice. If there is a drop you pay £10 for each % point dropped ? Sound fairer to you ?
EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Fri 29 May 2020 8:20 am
Good tactics though. Its a bit like you answering a question with 4 questions and then when the person complains you haven't answered their question you complain that you haven't answered their one question because they haven't answered your four questions.
Easy claim to make. Not quite as easy to check but it is checkable. Try it and I think you will find reality is actually substantially different from what you want and choose to believe.

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

erol wrote:
Fri 29 May 2020 10:02 am

I understood your point to be the Cummings affair has not affected polls on people's voting intention ? I think you are just calling it too early a bit like when you used lack of excess deaths in ONS figures to show that more people were not dying than normal. So OK If there is not a drop in Con figures next month, Ill pay £50 to a charity of your choice. If there is a drop you pay £10 for each % point dropped ? Sound fairer to you ?

No I said that for all the windrush scandal, not getting the covid crisis right the Tories are still flying high in the ratings and at first sight it doesn't look as if the Cummings thing is making huge inroads into that popularity although there is a miniscule drop.

Re the bet, that's a bit like me betting that Liverpool will lose less games next season, when you are going well generally you can only go down.

But here's a bet. Labour have a new leader who seems a lot more with it and electable than Corbyn. Johnson and the Tories are apparently such a corrupt shower and by the next GE will have been in power for 14-15 years people will want a change, so how about a bet on the next general election?

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Re: Poll - did Cummings break the rules ?

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Post by PoshinDevon »

Having taken leave from the front and enjoyed a couple of days drinking fine wine and dining with General Melchett, I can now report that the General has ordered me back to the line to continue the fight. Of course the General gave me some sound tactical advice and words of encouragement as he sent me on my way. Being one of the "elite" he doesn't have to engage in the niff naff and trivia of battle but as ever is holding his head high and leading steadfastly from the rear. Our dear leader has suggested that in order to break out from the trenches I should indeed go over the top and attempt to wade thro the questions which you appear to think have not been answered. Whilst I am not one to challenge our dear leaders wisdom, I am concerned that this will only lead to a further stalemate but into battle we must go. Below in amongst your long monolog are your question/s.....I hope:-

What you appear to be telling me PiD as far as I understand you, is that if you see someone breaking those rules and then discover not only are they breaking the rules, they are also symptomatic, know they are and believe they are infected, this is no waymakes you more annoyed, more angry. Or that you can not understand why someone else might be more angry on discovering this. If this is what you are telling be I find that truly astonishing to be honest and frank. Then you find out they broke rules , knew they were symptomatic and believed they were infected AND they were involved in the creation of those rules. Are you really saying that on discovering this you would not be even more annoyed, more angry ? Then you fins out they broke thew rules, knew they were infected when doing so, were involved in making those rules and the PM and some parts of the Government insist that actually they did not break the rules. Are you really saying that such a person deserves no more criticism, no more calling out, no more sanction than someone who just broke the rules ? Is that your position or have I misunderstood you ?[/i]

Not withstanding the statement put out by Durham Constabulary which in brief stated the following:-

They do not consider that by locating himself at his fathers premises committed an offence contrary to regulation 6 of the Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020.
The constabulary have concluded after examining evidence around the journey to Barnard Castle that there may have been a minor breach of the regulations. This would have warranted police intervention but the constabulary view is that it was a minor breach as no social distancing rules were apparently broken.

So to answer your questions as I understand them:-

1. No rules were broken with regards to the journey to Durham. I am not more annoyed or more angry with Mr Cummings. I personally think he did what he thought was best and whilst I have sympathy with him for that I have already stated that he should have resigned.
2. I do not believe Mr Cummings deserves more criticism just because he was involved in making the rules. I am sure I have already answered this but rules are there for all to follow. All those in public office should be setting an example and therefore this is why I see absolutely no reason why one person holding an office should be more criticised, hounded or called out as compared to other MPs holding public office who clearly broke the rules. Remember there was no proof a the time that these 3 MPs had been tested for Covid 19 and therefore when they travelled they may also have been carrying and spreading the virus without knowing it.

My annoyance is more towards the press who have stoked up this saga by inventing part of the story, fuelling the fire, stoking up the anger, acting in the way they have and exerting their influence by stating and printing less than the truth. Those MSM representing BBC, ITV and Sky have tried every tactic in an attempt to keep this story going. Yesterday they even attempted to trap the CSA and CMO and draw them into the political debate. The line of questioning was so blatantly obvious that I really have to question their intelligence. Fortunately the PM was able to stand up to them and indeed Sir Patrick Valance and also Chris Whitty both clearly stated they were there to advise and had no intention of being drawn into politics. Add to this Emily Maitlands gaff on BBC Newsnight which resulted in a severe reprimand and it only goes to re enforce my view that certain elements of the press are biased and have an agenda.

I hope that clears up my side of things.

Not sure if the break out from the trenches has worked and as we know General Melchett has a less than impressive record as a tactical mastermind. However if this still results in stalemate I propose a game of football in no mans land. Lets be honest if its a draw at full time you should easily win on penalties as we are not very good at them.

Toodle Pip and as we like to say "Ich wunsche dir einen schonen Tag, alter Junge"
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Post by erol »

PoshinDevon wrote:
Fri 29 May 2020 11:48 am
So to answer your questions as I understand them:-
You have not understood my question. It was not about Cumming specifically. It was about someone who HAD broken the rules. Your answer was 'well I and the police do not think he broke the rules on moving to Durham', so it is avoiding my question because my question was specifically about someone who HAD broken the rules. A theoretical person if you will. It seems to me you are just determined not to answer this question ? Or is that unfair ? The question is about how angry the person breaking the rules makes you feel and if that anger is any different in the different scenarios I listed. It seems pretty clear to me. Pretty simple. Could be answered in a sentence ?

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

So Durham Police have investigated and "does not consider that by locating himself at his father’s premises, Mr Cummings committed an offence contrary to regulation 6 of the Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020."

Re the castle trip "Durham Constabulary have examined the circumstances surrounding the journey to Barnard Castle and have concluded that there might have been a minor breach of the Regulations that would have warranted police intervention. Durham Constabulary view this as minor because there was no apparent breach of social distancing.
In line with Durham Constabulary’s general approach throughout the pandemic, there is no intention to take retrospective action in respect of the Barnard Castle incident since this would amount to treating Mr Cummings differently from other members of the public. Durham Constabulary has not taken retrospective action against any other person."

So as they have cleared Cummings as far as the regulations are concerned that's the end of it and should be the end of the pile on unless we should treat Cummings differently in law which sets a dangerous precedent.

The laws the law

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Post by erol »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Fri 29 May 2020 2:46 pm
that's the end of it and should be the end of the pile on
Good luck with that. Personally I do not think it is very likely to end the pile on. If I turn out to be correct about this please do not come whining to me or accusing me. Try directing your ire at the media outlets that are piling on , like say the Daily Mail or Daily Star.

And of course in light of the Durham police findings no one should even think for a second of looking at Jonhson's claims at last Sunday's press conference in the light of their findings.
Johnson live to the British Public wrote: DC acted responsibly, legally and with integrity
Call me a cynic and a leftie just out to get them but that is not quite what the Durham police found is it ?

How about when question by journalist in that press conference ?
A journalist from the Scotsman asks whether the Government's advice has been undermined by Dominic Cummings.

The Scottish chief medical advisor had to resign after she broke the rules to protect the guidance, he says.

Mr Johnson says the key difference between the two incidents is that Dominic Cummings did not break the rules.
Hmmm ? Nothing to see here. Move along. Tory / Johnson good everything else bad.

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erol wrote:
Fri 29 May 2020 3:20 pm

Call me a cynic and a leftie just out to get them but that is not quite what the Durham police found is it ?

How about when question by journalist in that press conference ?

The Scottish chief medical advisor had to resign after she broke the rules to protect the guidance, he says.

Mr Johnson says the key difference between the two incidents is that Dominic Cummings did not break the rules.
Cummings, legal or illegal?

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Post by erol »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Fri 29 May 2020 3:28 pm
erol wrote:
Fri 29 May 2020 3:20 pm

Call me a cynic and a leftie just out to get them but that is not quite what the Durham police found is it ?

How about when question by journalist in that press conference ?

The Scottish chief medical advisor had to resign after she broke the rules to protect the guidance, he says.

Mr Johnson says the key difference between the two incidents is that Dominic Cummings did not break the rules.
Cummings, legal or illegal?
Did he break the rules , not break the rules ?

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erol wrote:
Fri 29 May 2020 3:47 pm

Did he break the rules , not break the rules ?
Not according to the Durham police, at most he might and there key word is might have carried at a minor infringement of one regulation.
Case over but don’t let that stop the pile on eh?
Why have rules when you can have mob rules

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Post by erol »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Fri 29 May 2020 3:56 pm
erol wrote:
Fri 29 May 2020 3:47 pm

Did he break the rules , not break the rules ?
Not according to the Durham police, at most he might and there key word is might have carried at a minor infringement of one regulation.
Case over but don’t let that stop the pile on eh?
Why have rules when you can have mob rules
Did they not say that had he encountered a police officer, they would have explained that he was in breach of the rules and should return home ?

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

erol wrote:
Fri 29 May 2020 4:41 pm

Did they not say that had he encountered a police officer, they would have explained that he was in breach of the rules and should return home ?
But he didn’t so they didn’t and though he has admitted the transgression it is so trivial they aren’t going to press it. End of bulletin

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Post by PoshinDevon »

erol wrote:
Fri 29 May 2020 12:51 pm
PoshinDevon wrote:
Fri 29 May 2020 11:48 am
So to answer your questions as I understand them:-
You have not understood my question. It was not about Cumming specifically. It was about someone who HAD broken the rules. Your answer was 'well I and the police do not think he broke the rules on moving to Durham', so it is avoiding my question because my question was specifically about someone who HAD broken the rules. A theoretical person if you will. It seems to me you are just determined not to answer this question ? Or is that unfair ? The question is about how angry the person breaking the rules makes you feel and if that anger is any different in the different scenarios I listed. It seems pretty clear to me. Pretty simple. Could be answered in a sentence ?
I am completely baffled by your post and questioning. Theoretical person? I thought the poll was about Cummings, how is suddenly about a theoretical person? As for the anger side I thought I had also covered that as well. Rules, according to the constabulary if anything the breaking of a rule by Cummings was minor. But hey we are not talking about Cummings now, we are supposed to be talking about a theoretical imaginary person.

I have tried to say that for me the real culprits in all of this are the press. I have tried to read all the newspapers and listen to comments by the MSM to try and get to the bottom of the story. I maintain they have an agenda. I am not going to list the reasons why as this article sums it up for me. You may of course come back and say it’s a Tory blue rinse supporting organisation, I have no idea if it is or not and I honestly don’t care.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/05/2 ... 4.facebook

Sorry Erol but you have lost me completely with this topic so I will give up.

As I thought might happen it’s still stalemate so time to retreat back to the bunker and sit the war out. If you want to arrange a football match in no mans land, let me know.(I will let you win on penalties if you want).
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Post by erol »

PoshinDevon wrote:
Fri 29 May 2020 6:38 pm
I am completely baffled by your post and questioning. Theoretical person? I thought the poll was about Cummings, how is suddenly about a theoretical person? As for the anger side I thought I had also covered that as well. Rules, according to the constabulary if anything the breaking of a rule by Cummings was minor. But hey we are not talking about Cummings now, we are supposed to be talking about a theoretical imaginary person.
It really is not that complicated. I understand an appreciated that you do not think he broke the rules. However around 70% of the British public DO think he broke them. I am simply trying to explain why for them, the issues that you say are irrelevant are not actually irrelevant. I am sorry if that is too 'obtuse' for you. The vast majority of the British public think he broke the rules. They also do see a difference in him doing so believing himself and or his wife to be infected. If you were able to answer my question you would understand why I think. You are not so you probably remain baffled why for them it does make a difference.
PoshinDevon wrote:
Fri 29 May 2020 6:38 pm
I have tried to say that for me the real culprits in all of this are the press. I have tried to read all the newspapers and listen to comments by the MSM to try and get to the bottom of the story. I maintain they have an agenda. I am not going to list the reasons why as this article sums it up for me. You may of course come back and say it’s a Tory blue rinse supporting organisation, I have no idea if it is or not and I honestly don’t care.
And I have pointed out that the thread is about Cummings and the public's reaction to what he did and how the government behaved following that. I understand you want to talk about the press, how they have an agenda, Do feel free to start you own thread on the subject, or your own poll on if the whole affair is a media stitch up. The press ALWAYS have an agenda. There is nothing new there. A SPAD of the likes of Cummings doing what he did and then the Government claiming he did nothing wrong at all is a new story. The press doing what the press always do always have done and always will do is not new.
PoshinDevon wrote:
Fri 29 May 2020 6:38 pm
As I thought might happen it’s still stalemate so time to retreat back to the bunker and sit the war out. If you want to arrange a football match in no mans land, let me know.(I will let you win on penalties if you want).
All I am doing, all I ever do, is try and understand better. Understand why I think what I do by 'writing it' down and presenting in opposition to those who do not agree and understand those who do not agree with me better in return. The process is by it's nature confrontational and has 'sides' but for me at least it is not about winning or losing. It is just a means to an end. The end being better understanding. Please do feel free to tell me how little you believe that if you like. It will make little difference to me to be honest.

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Post by Groucho »

You need to let it go... before it devours you.

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Groucho wrote:
Sat 30 May 2020 7:28 am
You need to let it go... before it devours you.
He's like a Jack Russell on a trouser leg.
Cummings has been cleared but apparently whilst he should act as any other citizen in the UK he can't expect the same due process. Standards? Mines a double.
Interesting that Erol will bring up how poorly immigrants are treated in the UK and remain silent on the inequalities in TRNC.
People who have made their lives here and contribute to the economy are always second best to TCs who left this country 40 odd years ago.
Fair enough as I always say you pull your own children out of a burning building before other kids but were the UK or the USA do the same I would be counting down the hours before an Erol poll would pop up.

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Post by erol »

Groucho wrote:
Sat 30 May 2020 7:28 am
You need to let it go... before it devours you.
Groucho wrote:
Sat 30 May 2020 1:06 pm
My advice to let it go on your crusade against DC, was because you were digging deeper and deeper in what had become a pointless attempt to bludgeon those who held a different view in a clearly vain attempt to persuade them otherwise.... it was not meant to patronise it was a plea to let it drop because now that the Durham police have declared there was no breach of the rules there is no point in further discussion of the matter.

You've done it to death... don't you think?

You persuaded no one that I can see to agree with you who did not already do so before you started the poll.

So now you have decided to hijack this thread which has absolutely no connection to UK politics.

I should have known...
If my objective was to convince those who had a different view to me, by bludgeoning or otherwise, then what I would use is slogans and sound bites based on little or no evidence or effort. As that was never my objective or intent I do not use such. As my objective is to seek better understanding, of what I think and why I think it as well as what others think and why they think it. I simply try and explain as clearly what I think and what evidence leads me to think that, putting in effort and work to do that in detail. This is NOT the best way to change people's minds, few understand that reality as well as I do. It IS the best way I know off for me to use the forum to seek better understanding.

The Durham police have not declared there was no breach of the rules. That is just your partisan opinion / claim.

You do not get to decide when there is no point in further discussion in a thread that you did not start. The idea that there is no point in further discussion is also totally undermined by the FACT that even since the Durham police findings even more Tory MP's have come out against DC, as a result of even more emails to them from the constituents over the 10s of thousands already received, even more people have signed the chage.org petition calling for DC resignation and Tory papers like the Daily Mail continue running articles like this https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -trip.html. Of course none of this can now be discussed because you have decided it it pointless. That these facts may annoy you is not my problem nor does it excuse your 'childish' comment imo. This is on top of the FACT that if there is material consequential damage resulting from how this has been (badly imo) handled it will and can only show up in the future.

The idea that it is just me that 'is not able to let this go' is imo patent nonsense. You want to decide when this thread stops and I believe that was the intent behind your 'pathetic and childish' (your words) patronising and pointless (my words) post.

You want to decide when this thread stops and as far as I am concerned your patronising and pointless comment that you yourself described as pathetic and childish when quoted back at you, was nothing more than your partisan effort to 'bludgeon' me in to shutting up in the thread I started because that is what you would like. Well sorry that is about as likely to happen as the 10s of millions in the UK still outraged at this affair will just now shut up because you want them to. I do not think you need to be a political genius in touch with the zeitgeist of the common man of DC calibre to realise that.
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Post by erol »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Sat 30 May 2020 1:44 pm
He's like a Jack Russell on a trouser leg.
Rather a terrier than a snake.
EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Sat 30 May 2020 1:44 pm
Cummings has been cleared but apparently whilst he should act as any other citizen in the UK he can't expect the same due process. Standards? Mines a double.
The other officials involved in government messaging who have been caught in minor infractions of the governments own guidelines have stepped down because of the impact on the effectiveness of that messaging going forward if they did not. The only reason that DC has not is that unlike them DC is perceived to be of supreme importance to Johnson's political interests. Yours is indeed a double from where I am siting.
EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Sat 30 May 2020 1:44 pm
Interesting that Erol will bring up how poorly immigrants are treated in the UK and remain silent on the inequalities in TRNC.
Really ? And if I showed examples of the times I have expressed my displeasure about inequities within the TRNC would that actual evidence make any differences to you ? Not if past performance is any guide to the future. Once again instead of discussing the subject of the topic you prefer to resort to ad hominem attacks on my character that are themselves just totally untrue as far as I am concerned.
EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Sat 30 May 2020 1:44 pm
People who have made their lives here and contribute to the economy are always second best to TCs who left this country 40 odd years ago. Fair enough as I always say you pull your own children out of a burning building before other kids but were the UK or the USA do the same I would be counting down the hours before an Erol poll would pop up.
I have a track record of helping those fighting injustice in the TRNC who are not TRNC citizens. That is not just 'sounding off' about it on a forum but real work and effort on my part and even some exposure to potential repercussions for doing so. Of course none of this reality matters compared to your current need to try and use sound bites and slogans divorced from evidence or reality to slur my character.

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