The problem with classic British public schools

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The problem with classic British public schools

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EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Fri 11 Dec 2020 11:32 am
So every MP, judge, civil servant, CEO is bad?
Why so facetious ? It is a plain and simple truth that just by attending a British public school you increase your statistical chances of getting a 'good' job, of being a senior judge, Minister, Civil Servant, PM etc etc etc. It makes it easier than if you do not.
EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Fri 11 Dec 2020 11:32 am
They are as good or as flawed as the rest of us nothing to do with what school they went to.
The profession of teaching should start from a variant of that which medicine starts with. Do as little harm as possible. Everything else should come after that overriding objective.

School can and does 'make the person' for many many people to large and significant degrees and in ways that can take a lifetime to unravel. That is certainly the case for me and I find it inconceivable to imagine that someone like Boris Johnson would not be different in material ways and degrees had he had a different education experience to the one he did have.

The obscenity of public tax payers money being used to subsidies things like the building of a new indoor olympic size pool and sports complex at my old 'alma mata' to the tune of millions of pounds under the charity gift aid rules is not my main problem with the institution of the British public school system.

The fundamental hypocrisy and inequity of bought advantage in the form of increased potential life outcome chances is not my main problem with the institution of the British public school system either.

Anyone at any kind of school can end up messed up in bad ways by their experience, or not. I contend, from statistical evidence, personal experience and common sense combined that the chances you might be badly damaged as a person by your educational experience is statistically greater if you attend a classic British public school than if you do not.

The British public school system is structurally brutalising to children by design to a degree that should no longer be acceptable to society in the year 2020. There is simply no need any more. The system was designed and shaped from the 1900s onwards to turn out hardy, self reliant, emotionally stunted functionaries for all levels within the empire that already understood those hierarchies and their place within them. We simply do not have to put children through this any more with all the risks it entails for that child and the person they go to become. There is no empire any more. It is just unnecessary.

The elite will always be the elite but that does not mean I should accept that they have to risk damaging their children through education just in order to be in the elite club.

My main problem with the British public school system is that the chances it will seriously mess up any given individual are higher than in other forms of education and unacceptably high in the year 2020. Higher to a degree that should not be acceptable.
EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Fri 11 Dec 2020 11:32 am
To do those sort of jobs you need a certain level of education what the state sector isn’t supplying. Our schooling system is more interested in looking after the interests of the teachers not the children.
That is just total and utter rubbish. I know this from every second of my person experience to date and I know it just by looking at the data. If you take a metric like exam results there will be British public schools in that list but there will also be schools that are not such in the list, state and academies these days and others. There are good state schools and there are bad Public schools across all metrics is the simple reality. With a metric like exam results being 'top' is nothing to do with state or public school. It is down to selective or not. Some state schools are selective. All public schools are selective. It is not rocket science to understand why selection is the single biggest factor in becoming a 'top school' by something like exam results, not just in the UK but world wide. The idea that all state education is the same, it is all bad and none of it will give a level of education needed to do an 'important' job are all just patent nonsense to me. As is the idea that all public schools do provide this 'level of education' and that explains the number of 'top' people from these schools without any mention what so ever of the 'old school tie' system and its variants.
EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Fri 11 Dec 2020 11:32 am
Rather than improve state education the left just want to complain about private education. Obviously it’s lip service as they make liberal use of it themselves.
First and foremost I just do not want people messed up by school more than can be avoided or is necessary. That is what the British public school system does. That we then have a habit of taking the most messed up unfortunates, the ones most severely damaged by it and then systematically place them in positions of power and wonder why things go wrong is a side consequence of the problem, not the problem itself.

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Re: The problem with classic British public schools

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Can I have a brief summary of what point(s) you are trying to make please?

And, what is your own personal experience of British Public Schools?

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Re: The problem with classic British public schools

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techtrader wrote:
Fri 11 Dec 2020 2:13 pm
Can I have a brief summary of what point(s) you are trying to make please?
On average British public schools harm those that pass through them more than other educational systems do to a degree that should no longer be considered acceptable.
techtrader wrote:
Fri 11 Dec 2020 2:13 pm
And, what is your own personal experience of British Public Schools?
Not good.

you can read my personal 'consumer review' here https://www.facebook.com/Bedford-School ... e_internal

Yours ?

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Re: The problem with classic British public schools

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Good grief, I don't see how one person's bad experience back in the late 70's can have any relevance to a school now let alone the wide generalisations you are making here. Whilst i'm no particular lobbyist or cheerleader for the system, I can see there are multiple good reviews on that facebook link against your negative one.

My experience is that it's not particularly a greater level of teaching you find at Public Schools but there are many more opportunities to do things as in general the facilities are first rate, so it's really up to the individual to make use of what is there.

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Re: The problem with classic British public schools

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techtrader wrote:
Fri 11 Dec 2020 2:51 pm
Good grief, I don't see how one person's bad experience back in the late 70's can have any relevance to a school now let alone the wide generalisations you are making here. Whilst i'm no particular lobbyist or cheerleader for the system, I can see there are multiple good reviews on that facebook link against your negative one.
That is your confusion not mine.

My 'wide generalisations' are based on evidence, of my own eyes, experience and statistical.

It is a 'wide generalisation' to say that a concept of education involving children being separated from their parents and siblings from the age of seven and younger for long periods of time and living at the school, is a notion of the 19th centaury and alone in and of itself is just unnecessarily potentially damaging to children from otherwise safe and normal homes. It is a wide generalisation but it is also true and valid as far as I am concerned. We do not need to treat our children like this any more, not elite ones or anyone. Boarding is still as central to the British public school system today as it was in Tom Brown's schooldays.

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Re: The problem with classic British public schools

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erol wrote:
Fri 11 Dec 2020 1:20 pm
Why so facetious ? It is a plain and simple truth that just by attending a British public school you increase your statistical chances of getting a 'good' job, of being a senior judge, Minister, Civil Servant, PM etc etc etc. It makes it easier than if you do not.
I’m aware that the old school tie works. But that’s life. The print, the docks and the meat market were good jobs in their day but very working class jobs. Your odds on getting a job in any of them without your family being in them or knowing someone in them were minimal. That’s how the world works. As I said there are good people in all jobs, the school they went to does not alter that.
erol wrote:
Fri 11 Dec 2020 1:20 pm
The profession of teaching should start from a variant of that which medicine starts with. Do as little harm as possible. Everything else should come after that overriding objective.
I went to a inner London comprehensive. There were a few good teachers. There were a lot of poor or lazy teachers. So I guess they did little harm. They did little anything tbh. And even then we had a fair few Trots trying to mould young minds. Nice middle class guys, getting down with the kids and relating to us and teaching us the wonders of Maxism. Unfortunately they run into a bunch of the most cynical kids they could meet who just laughed at them when they explained what it was to be black or under privileged. You did however learn what was the best answer if you wanted to get a good mark in Sociology, Economics etc. God knows what it is like now. The buzz word of critical theory translates into be critical of the theory of capitalism and you’ll get an A.
erol wrote:
Fri 11 Dec 2020 1:20 pm
School can and does 'make the person' for many many people to large and significant degrees and in ways that can take a lifetime to unravel.
School should prepare you for life. Some people struggle at school. Some get bullied. Same as in life. It interests me that teachers are so keen to hide children from say competitive sports but no age is young enough to learn about trans issues.
I remember a kid at my school. Not much personality. Pretty thick. No good at any sports but one. This kid could swim like a fish. Our school would have a swimming gala each year at the local swimming baths. I understand it doesn’t happen now as it’s competitive. But I think of this kid, all year this kid was a dud really. I’m assuming that in his future life he probably struggled to be average. But for a couple of days a year this kid was special. Why rob him of that? Sure sports in school can be cruel. We’ve all seen the fat kid flogging himself to run around a pitch. But when he leaves school all he is going to do is walk to the chip shop. This is the only exercise in his life he might get.
erol wrote:
Fri 11 Dec 2020 1:20 pm
Anyone at any kind of school can end up messed up in bad ways by their experience, or not. I contend, from statistical evidence, personal experience and common sense combined that the chances you might be badly damaged as a person by your educational experience is statistically greater if you attend a classic British public school than if you do not.
I can’t speak for your personal experience and we’d not agree on common sense but I’d be amused to see where the statistical evidence comes from.
erol wrote:
Fri 11 Dec 2020 1:20 pm
The British public school system is structurally brutalising to children by design to a degree that should no longer be acceptable to society in the year 2020. There is simply no need any more. The system was designed and shaped from the 1900s onwards to turn out hardy, self reliant, emotionally stunted functionaries for all levels within the empire that already understood those hierarchies and their place within them. We simply do not have to put children through this any more with all the risks it entails for that child and the person they go to become. There is no empire any more. It is just unnecessary.
OK let’s say I go along that schools like factories haven’t changed at all since 1900. I know the factory owner in a cape twirling his moustache is an image you want to keep no matter how ludicrous but let’s say I buy into schools are exactly the same as they were.
The army is brutal and some get brutalized. But for some joining the army changes their life for the better. The army has probably dragged more people out of poverty than most organizations and I include our state schools in that.
The army has also destroyed some people but some people are weak. I’ve heard of people in publishing being diagnosed with PTSD for god’s sake.
Maybe the school doesn’t change because what it has done for 100 years has prepared 99% of the people who pass through its doors for a fulfilling life. Maybe it has a system that works rather than chasing the latest fad to stay woke.

erol wrote:
Fri 11 Dec 2020 1:20 pm
My main problem with the British public school system is that the chances it will seriously mess up any given individual are higher than in other forms of education and unacceptably high in the year 2020. Higher to a degree that should not be acceptable.
Bet the stabbings are a lot lower.
The left wish to abolish all private schools. There are over 2500 private schools and of those how many are Winchester, Eton, Harrow or Rugby? A dozen? Fifty at most? Most people who use private schools probably live in bad areas and don’t trust the local school to give their child a reasonable chance in life. Those people probably scrimp and save, don’t have a nice car never go on holiday etc. They aren’t the Duke of Westminster. But the left want to micro manage people’s lives. How dare they spend their money how they want.
Then let’s move onto the elite schools, the Etons. What will happen if we ban it? It will move abroad and the children will board there. If they can shell out fifty grand in fees I’m sure they can find a few hundred for some plane tickets. So your attempt to leg over the Duke of Westminster’s kids has caused him about 20 minutes aggravation. Obviously those exceptionally gifted kids who get in there on a scholarship will now probably be Swiss but you stuck it to the man eh?
Certain schools suit certain people. Not everyone is academic. Maybe those secondary moderns have something to recommend them?
But it still comes back to the same old argument. Most people use state schools so rather than letting down the tyres of a Ferrari let’s look at improving state schools. This whole Eton envy and Public school baiting is pure window dressing for the fact we have a failing school system that is run for the teachers and not for the children.
https://www.bbc.com/news/10464617
I could name 12 incompetent teachers at my school and that’s from 40 odd years ago!
I’m all for lifting teacher’s wages but they have to accept that is for good teachers and to attract better people into the profession not to give a pay rise to rubbish who choose to teach to hide from the adult world. Some might be well meaning and enthusiastic but they aren’t good at it so they have to go.

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Re: The problem with classic British public schools

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erol wrote:
Fri 11 Dec 2020 3:16 pm


My 'wide generalisations' are based on evidence, of my own eyes, experience and statistical.
Not seen any statistical evidence yet but I'm excited to see the source. As for your eyes and experience that would be anecdotal evidence which I didn't think we were allowed or is that flexible?
erol wrote:
Fri 11 Dec 2020 3:16 pm

It is a 'wide generalisation' to say that a concept of education involving children being separated from their parents and siblings from the age of seven and younger for long periods of time and living at the school, is a notion of the 19th centaury and alone in and of itself is just unnecessarily potentially damaging to children from otherwise safe and normal homes. It is a wide generalisation but it is also true and valid as far as I am concerned. We do not need to treat our children like this any more, not elite ones or anyone. Boarding is still as central to the British public school system today as it was in Tom Brown's schooldays.
This sounds like the wide generalisation that a massive cause of poverty and crime is the massive rise in single parent families.
That one has to be smashed at all costs although the evidence is overwhelming. Forget black or white if you come from a two parent family then your odds on being in prison are slashed.
But then we have to attack that don't we? We can't quote evidence so we go for the play the man ploy of faux outrage that anyone who points out the statistical truth is attacking those hard working single parents and throw up a few examples which don't follow.
How much parental time does the kid who lets himself in and feeds himself before going out to join his gang while his Mum is holding down 2 cleaning jobs and his Dad is on Baby Mama 5?
Standards? Mines a double.

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Re: The problem with classic British public schools

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EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Fri 11 Dec 2020 4:58 pm
Not seen any statistical evidence yet but I'm excited to see the source.
The clearest and simplest evidence that supports the contention that public schools on average are more harmful than other types of school is in the incidence of serious child sexual abuse resulting in criminal conviction. The evidence that any given child is more likely to suffer sexual abuse in a British public school than not in one is overwhelming. This is far far far from the only form of 'brutalisation' that is built in to the structure of these institutions but it is the one that produces the clearest statistical evidence at the most extreme end of the spectrum.
EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Fri 11 Dec 2020 4:58 pm
As for your eyes and experience that would be anecdotal evidence which I didn't think we were allowed or is that flexible?
This kind of 'double standards' attack is just tedious and boring to me. What is more is it plays exactly the same the other way round. You poo poo people with views and opinions on things they themselves do not directly experience and then you discount my direct experience. My point is that my anecdotal evidence also matches statistical evidence and just plain common sense when you look at some of the examples of the pinnacle of this education system like Johnson and Mogg and others. So not just anecdotal but all indications at all scales point the same way.
erol wrote:
Fri 11 Dec 2020 3:16 pm
This sounds like the wide generalisation that a massive cause of poverty and crime is the massive rise in single parent families. That one has to be smashed at all costs although the evidence is overwhelming. Forget black or white if you come from a two parent family then your odds on being in prison are slashed. But then we have to attack that don't we? We can't quote evidence so we go for the play the man ploy of faux outrage that anyone who points out the statistical truth is attacking those hard working single parents and throw up a few examples which don't follow.
How much parental time does the kid who lets himself in and feeds himself before going out to join his gang while his Mum is holding down 2 cleaning jobs and his Dad is on Baby Mama 5?
Standards? Mines a double.
Even ignoring that the evidence on this contention is far less clear cut as it is with public schools being more likely to damage a person than others you miss a fundamental difference, There is in place a viable alternative to sending a child to a public school. You do not send them. That is not true of the issue of 'single parent families' and the impact such has on average re life chances of children. What is your 'alternative' ? Make it illegal for parent to separate ? Not so much 'mines a double' as 'mines an orang' yet you bring me an apple.

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Re: The problem with classic British public schools

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erol wrote:
Fri 11 Dec 2020 5:49 pm

The clearest and simplest evidence that supports the contention that public schools on average are more harmful than other types of school is in the incidence of serious child sexual abuse resulting in criminal conviction. The evidence that any given child is more likely to suffer sexual abuse in a British public school than not in one is overwhelming.
So no source yet?
So of all the minors who have been sexually abused over the last 20 years most have been educated at a publc school as opposed to a state school?
Are you serious?
Without throwing up Rotherham etc etc etc which is a whole different argument you must see this is nonsense?
I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but rife?
Generally the cases I have seen over the last few years have in fact been female teachers generally in their 30s and attractive who seem to think it is ok to have sex with 14-15 year old boys.
I guess they won't feature because they don't seem to often end in prison time.
So that's one question, why the double standards there?
The second one is where the hell were these nymphomaniacs when I was at school and a mass of 15 year old hormones!
erol wrote:
Fri 11 Dec 2020 5:49 pm

My point is that my anecdotal evidence also matches statistical evidence and just plain common sense when you look at some of the examples of the pinnacle of this education system like Johnson and Mogg and others. So not just anecdotal but all indications at all scales point the same way.
Johnson and Rees Mogg play a part like pipe smoking Harold Wilson played a part and so many other do. You don't buy into the Jeremy Corbyn man of the people bit do you? I went to a school with 800 boys in and I'm racking my brains to remember a Jeremy.
Johnson and Rees-Mogg are the main targets of the left, that's fine. But their schooling is as relevant as Seamus Milne's. I realise they have to step a little more gently around Priti Patel and Rishi Sunak.
As we both know you can make statistics do what you like. It is very easy to knock a million off the unemployment figures or crime statistics or NHS waiting times with artifice and recategorisation. But whenever anyone brings up any anecdotal evidence you will sneer at it, I'm not saying you lived experience didn't happen but it doesn't mean it happened to everyone.
erol wrote:
Fri 11 Dec 2020 5:49 pm

Even ignoring that the evidence on this contention is far less clear cut
No it really isn't. You might not want to believe it but the evidence is there.
erol wrote:
Fri 11 Dec 2020 5:49 pm

There is in place a viable alternative to sending a child to a public school. You do not send them. That is not true of the issue of 'single parent families' and the impact such has on average re life chances of children. What is your 'alternative' ? Make it illegal for parent to separate ? Not so much 'mines a double' as 'mines an orang' yet you bring me an apple.
There are a couple of alternatives. Disincentivise single parenthood by amending the welfare system. And maybe explain how contraceptives' work.

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Re: The problem with classic British public schools

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EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Fri 11 Dec 2020 6:30 pm
So no source yet?
So of all the minors who have been sexually abused over the last 20 years most have been educated at a publc school as opposed to a state school?
Are you serious?
The incident per head of students of child sexual abuse by teachers or staff of that school is higher in public schools than it is in other types of schools. That is what the numbers show. Anyone can 'investigate' themselves. Just look up a list of top ten state schools by exam result or some other metric and the same for public schools or 20 or 100. Then just google the name of that school with the term 'child sexual abuse'. You will get more hits on the public school list than the state school ones and then you have to look up that there are about ten times as many state schools as private. The numbers are shocking. Abuse at public schools has gone on for decades and involved 'gangs' and cover up after cover up, with offenders moved around from school to school. Serious abuse. Damaging abuse. The only comparable systematic institutional abuse is that seen in the Catholic Church and there is some cross over there as well between some public schools. There are then countless academic studies but you will ignore all of those. Then there is just the mechanics of boarding in school in terms of opportunity and plain common sense. People who like to pray on children are going to be attracted to being 'house masters' in British public schools. Still all of this is to be ignore because you do not like the idea or reality that the chances that a child will be damaged by their school experience is higher in Public schools than state ones.
EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Fri 11 Dec 2020 6:30 pm
I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but rife?
Tyr it. Google the top 10 public schools in Uk with term 'child sexual abuse'. You will be hard pressed to find the couple that do not get hits. Not just of single incidences but of abuse going on for decades, of being allowed to continue long after first reported of denial and cover up and the like. Then try it with top 10 or 20 or 100 state schools. Or does that sound a bit too much like 'effort' to you ?It is a lot easier to just claim without doing ANY work or research that it is not the case?

https://youtu.be/uhWOM3iqF7c
EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Fri 11 Dec 2020 6:30 pm
Generally the cases I have seen .....!
Youi see what you want to see and not what you do not. I am trying to work out if you are capable of seeing something you do NOT want too see when it is pointed out to you and really is there, or not.

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Re: The problem with classic British public schools

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EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Fri 11 Dec 2020 4:47 pm
The army is brutal and some get brutalized. But for some joining the army changes their life for the better. The army has probably dragged more people out of poverty than most organizations and I include our state schools in that. The army has also destroyed some people but some people are weak. I’ve heard of people in publishing being diagnosed with PTSD for god’s sake.
The army is brutalising in many similar ways to Public schools. Signing up to the army is a however a choice made by people 16 years or older who have some idea of the nature of the beast they are choosing to join. Taking a seven year old away from their parents and siblings and thrusting them in to a brutalising environment comparable to if they had joined the army is not something we have to do to our children any more and is not something we should be doing.

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erol wrote:
Fri 11 Dec 2020 6:59 pm

Tyr it. Google the top 10 public schools in Uk with term 'child sexual abuse'. You will be hard pressed to find the couple that do not get hits. Not just of single incidences but of abuse going on for decades, of being allowed to continue long after first reported of denial and cover up and the like. Then try it with top 10 or 20 or 100 state schools. Or does that sound a bit too much like 'effort' to you ?It is a lot easier to just claim without doing ANY work or research that it is not the case?
That's a bit like asking people where Thresa May went to school. I'd guess 1 in a 100 will get it. Maybe 10 out of 100 for Starmer whereas Cameron and Johnson will get 90-100 hits because Eton is the story.

Here's 3 different cases randomly picked I had a quick scan no mention of what school. The school isn't the story.



https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/uknews/12 ... -position/

https://www.metro.news/mum-of-one-teach ... l/2116402/

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... -boyfriend

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EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Fri 11 Dec 2020 7:24 pm
erol wrote:
Fri 11 Dec 2020 6:59 pm

Tyr it. Google the top 10 public schools in Uk with term 'child sexual abuse'. You will be hard pressed to find the couple that do not get hits. Not just of single incidences but of abuse going on for decades, of being allowed to continue long after first reported of denial and cover up and the like. Then try it with top 10 or 20 or 100 state schools. Or does that sound a bit too much like 'effort' to you ?It is a lot easier to just claim without doing ANY work or research that it is not the case?
That's a bit like asking people where Thresa May went to school. I'd guess 1 in a 100 will get it. Maybe 10 out of 100 for Starmer whereas Cameron and Johnson will get 90-100 hits because Eton is the story.

Here's 3 different cases randomly picked I had a quick scan no mention of what school. The school isn't the story.



https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/uknews/12 ... -position/

https://www.metro.news/mum-of-one-teach ... l/2116402/

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... -boyfriend
See what you want see. Ignore what you do not.

You can very easily verify for yourself if it is true that public schools have a higher incidence of sexual abuse of children in their care than other schools. If they do then you will be able to find the news of the convictions online for any given school. Pick any public school at random and most especially any boarding school and see if there is any history of report child sex abuse at that school. Top tier, middle tier, any tier. Then any state school at random. After three such random picks the pattern will emerge. After 5 it will be confirmed, after 20 it is compelling and by 100 its beyond reasonable doubt. For every public school with its history of sustained and serious abuse going back decades there should be 10 such cases in state schools if the amount per head of students were the same in both. You do not see this. What you see is that with Public schools to not find any history of know sexual abuse is less frequent than not. From Eaton and the like down through the mid tier Rugbys and my own Bedford to the bottom tier public schools catering for those with children the other Public schools will not have. You do not have to take my word for this. Anyone with internet access can check it out for themselves.

You only have to look to see it but you have to be able to see it, politically and emotionally, when it really is there and not everyone can do that. I am still wondering if you can do it ?

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Re: The problem with classic British public schools

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erol wrote:
Fri 11 Dec 2020 7:14 pm

The army is brutalising in many similar ways to Public schools. Signing up to the army is a however a choice made by people 16 years or older who have some idea of the nature of the beast they are choosing to join. Taking a seven year old away from their parents and siblings and thrusting them in to a brutalising environment comparable to if they had joined the army is not something we have to do to our children any more and is not something we should be doing.
No I realise the plan is for the state to be in charge of what's best for the child. What school. What he/she learns.

So we kick it off at 5? Bit of revisionist history for a couple of years. Marxist theory for 3 years and a year of whatever is the fad at the time such as trans rights or transitioning for the wokiest, And then ensure they have the vote at 11 right? ;)


I can't see the attraction of boarding schools myself but I can see the attraction of choices and freedom.

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Re: The problem with classic British public schools

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We do not have to keep doing this to our children any more.


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Re: The problem with classic British public schools

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

erol wrote:
Fri 11 Dec 2020 7:45 pm

See what you want see. Ignore what you do not.

You can very easily verify for yourself if it is true that public schools have a higher incidence of sexual abuse of children in their care than other schools. If they do then you will be able to find the news of the convictions online for any given school. Pick any public school at random and most especially any boarding school and see if there is any history of report child sex abuse at that school. Top tier, middle tier, any tier. Then any state school at random. After three such random picks the pattern will emerge. After 5 it will be confirmed, after 20 it is compelling and by 100 its beyond reasonable doubt. For every public school with its history of sustained and serious abuse going back decades there should be 10 such cases in state schools if the amount per head of students were the same in both. You do not see this. What you see is that with Public schools to not find any history of know sexual abuse is less frequent than not. From Eaton and the like down through the mid tier Rugbys and my own Bedford to the bottom tier public schools catering for those with children the other Public schools will not have. You do not have to take my word for this. Anyone with internet access can check it out for themselves.

You only have to look to see it but you have to be able to see it, politically and emotionally, when it really is there and not everyone can do that. I am still wondering if you can do it ?
Well none of those 3 schools is going to show up are they as the name of the school is in the who cares pile?
Unless of course schools now put it in their prospectus? "No we haven't had a nonce here for 3 years."

That sort of data you are talking about falls into the look for the missing bullet holes category for me.

During World War II, fighter planes would come back from battle with bullet holes. The Allies found the areas that were most commonly hit by enemy fire and strengthened the most commonly damaged parts of the planes to reduce the number that were shot down.
Seems very sensible until a mathematician pointed out that the perhaps there was another way to look at the data. Perhaps the reason certain areas of the planes weren't covered in bullet holes was that planes that were shot in those areas did not return. So now they re-enforced the parts of plane where there were no bullet holes.

Or the reason behind why we are missing certain pieces of data may be more meaningful than the data we have.

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Re: The problem with classic British public schools

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erol wrote:
Fri 11 Dec 2020 8:02 pm
We do not have to keep doing this to our children any more.
So you are obviously in favour of obese children being taken into care?
On the plus side if you can get some people in children's homes there's a lot of fertile minds there to convert. These kids will vote however you want for a doughnut

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Re: The problem with classic British public schools

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EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Fri 11 Dec 2020 8:15 pm
erol wrote:
Fri 11 Dec 2020 8:02 pm
We do not have to keep doing this to our children any more.
So you are obviously in favour of obese children being taken into care?
Not at all. I have no problem with the idea or practice of giving public school places at boarding schools to children that have had to be taken in to care. There is a necessity there. Better still a residential school that is not based on 19th centaury notions and structures designed to meet a need that no longer exists in any case. Either way the dangers of such an environment are balanced by the reality of their situation prior to being taken in to care. I just do not think we have to keep systematically do such do such to children that have NOT been taken in to care and where there is no 'necessity' to off set the inherent dangers in such an environment.
EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Fri 11 Dec 2020 8:15 pm
On the plus side if you can get some people in children's homes there's a lot of fertile minds there to convert. These kids will vote however you want for a doughnut
You do know it is possible to disagree with you on public schools and NOT be a Marxist hell bent on twisting young minds to correct dogma as early and ruthlessly as possible ? Believe it or not it is even possible to be a teacher in a state school and have no such agenda. Or a beard even.

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Re: The problem with classic British public schools

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erol wrote:
Fri 11 Dec 2020 8:49 pm

I just do not think we have to keep systematically do such do such to children that have NOT been taken in to care and where there is no 'necessity' to off set the inherent dangers in such an environment.
That’s great so don’t send your kids to a public/boarding school. I personally wouldn’t either.
But the difference is I wouldn’t remove the choice from others. Your idea of freedom or democracy seems to be you are perfectly free to vote for THIS option because I will do my level best to ensure that it the only option.

erol wrote:
Fri 11 Dec 2020 8:49 pm
Believe it or not it is even possible to be a teacher in a state school and have no such agenda.
It’s possible. One thing isn’t possible is to be a teacher in a state school and try and push a conservative or capitalist agenda. They’ll pile on until you’re gone.

As for the beards I think they might be compulsory.
If you described Jeremy Corbyn’s beliefs to someone who had never seen him and asked them to describe him, trust me they’d get a photo fit the police would envy. They are like clones.

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Re: The problem with classic British public schools

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erol wrote:
Fri 11 Dec 2020 8:02 pm
We do not have to keep doing this to our children any more.
This is such a minuscule problem compared with fathers who disappear and leave their son with no male figure in their lives bar the local drug baron or gang leader as to be laughable tbh.

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Re: The problem with classic British public schools

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EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Sat 12 Dec 2020 12:29 am
erol wrote:
Fri 11 Dec 2020 8:02 pm
We do not have to keep doing this to our children any more.
This is such a minuscule problem compared with fathers who disappear and leave their son with no male figure in their lives bar the local drug baron or gang leader as to be laughable tbh.
No it is not. The potentially damaged children of such disappearing fathers (Johnson !) do not go on to dominate the highest positions in all the 'estates' of the nation. The potentially damaged children that get sent to public schools do dominate the highest positions in all 4 estates.

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Re: The problem with classic British public schools

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erol wrote:
Sat 12 Dec 2020 3:52 am

No it is not. The potentially damaged children of such disappearing fathers (Johnson !) do not go on to dominate the highest positions in all the 'estates' of the nation. The potentially damaged children that get sent to public schools do dominate the highest positions in all 4 estates.
OK I can see what you did there Johnson not being father of the year of course.
It's a bit like me saying on the whole I can see the flaws in having a deaf music teacher and you throwing up Beethoven.
Whilst I do buy into the exception that proves the rule to a point this is just nonsense really. Johnson's various kids are not going to be on welfare or going feral are they?

I am making the point that statistically a child bought up in a two parent, male/female household will do better in life than one who isn't. On the whole a black child from a two parent home will have better outcomes than a white child from a one parent home.
Again if a child is in an orphanage I would whole heartedly battle for him to be adopted or fostered by a same sex couple because that is far better than what he has.
I'm not saying a couple should stay together for the kids or that a father might want to actually meet his latest sperm donation.
I am not saying homosexuality is abnormal but would point out that if it replaces heterosexuality completely we as a species will die out.
Let's not say it is normal let's say it is the way that produces the most successful outcomes in life.
These are all common sense facts which some seek to wash over.

By hetrosexuality I mean a cis man with a person who has a womb. I'm sure you may be able to dig out some statistical anomaly like Beethoven but if we decide to override the established way of breeding the human race is gone.

I like the smooth 4 estates gig. The fourth estate being the press of course? All very polished and smooth.

However the estates I am talking about are the high rise estates which are over run by gangs of feral youngsters. Where people live in fear of their lives. The ones where certain movements are trying to remove the authorities from policing. Those estates. Where we have all the children who don’t fall into any of the above who have replaced their underperforming home with the streets. Who have decided that there is no family unit there so a gang will become their family. The estates that are a big part of people's lives.

Sure we may get a Prime Minister who might have not had a great time at school and might make the wrong call about The West Bank.
But here's the thing. Most people don't care. Their main worry is will their car outside be in one piece to enable them to get to work? Will their elderly mother be safe to collect her pension? Is it safe to go out at night?

The drivel and first world problems that seems to obsess you and others doesn't make a whole lot of difference to most.
Most people's needs and interests are fairly simple.

I'm not that woke or fashionable, is ME still a thing or is it all about trans now? I remember ME struck down so many middle class people in advertising and publishing with fatigue in the 80s. It was very on trend. Amazingly it had zero incidence in subsistence farmers in Africa though.

When the penny drops you'll know how people like Trump get voted in and why Labour lost the red wall.

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Re: The problem with classic British public schools

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Moving back to my original point about Eton is who cares, it is about as relevant as his hair tbh.

It isn't being bought up with relentless monotony because the journalist is concerned that there might be some deep seated damage caused by what school Johnson went to. It is bought up as class baiting pure and simple.

The fact that generally the person who is coming up with the "E's from Eton so is a bit of a toff, not like the likes of us" in an appalling mockney accent that would only fool his fellow middle class privileged chums is very amusing though.

But by all means do one of your polls on who could honestly name what school Theresa May went to. If more than 5% get it without googling I'm going to have to run a polygraph though.

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