America - Attempted coup by Trump Supporters

[Dalartokat]

Donald Trump was never going to leave in peace...

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-supporters ... 00385.html

[Brinsley]

Insurrection in DC. Well done Trump supporters condoning riots and violence feeding your fascists, nationalistic rule of law by listening to your beloved bullshit leader!

[PoshinDevon]

Trump and his supporters are really an embarrassment. Trump and his continued peddling of how he was cheated in the election and telling his supporters he will never accept the result is the cause of this.

Leader of the free world not denouncing this madness.

It’s like a scene from some ex soviet regimes or even Romania back in the dark days when the people finally had enough.

[Hedge-fund]

Disgraceful scenes and a gift to the
enemies of america and democracy.

How the protesters got that far is beyond me.

[jofra]

Looks like an ideal opportunity for a Russian or Chinese invasion - ISIS/Taliban/Al Qaeda don't have the resources or manpower to mount such an operation....
Canada and Mexico - "What horrible, noisy, uncouth neighbours we have - they've really lowered the tone of the neighbourhood..."

[Hedge-fund]

He needs certifying

https://twitter.com/i/status/1346928882595885058

Edit
Trump's tweet has been removed. Basically it was a video of him saying the election was stolen and he will never concede.

[jofra]

sedition - conduct or speech inciting people to rebel against the authority of a state or monarch.
(US) Sedition is a serious felony punishable by fines and up to 20 years in prison and it refers to the act of inciting revolt or violence against a lawful authority with the goal of destroying or overthrowing it.
treason - the crime of betraying one's country, especially by attempting to kill or overthrow the sovereign or government.
...Sounds about right.....
However, Article III, Section 3 of the US Constitution:
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.
...So unfortunately, while treason carries the death penalty, this might not apply....

[kibsolar1999]

How the protesters got that far is beyond me.

that most probably will be subject to an investigation... and the outcome will be interesting...

[erol]

Riveting

For me this is history in front of my eyes. This is Berlin wall falling. A moment of phase change, tectonic shift. A point in time where the number of possible futures suddenly expands exponentially in hours live as you watch.

Riveting.

[erol]

and imo he now has to be impeached and found guilty within the next 24 hours. I think its possible because for a certain section of the senate the only thing that can save their own skins now, maybe, is their vote to impeach.

[jofra]

February 27, 1933 - what happened? Ask Adolf Trump/Donald Hitler....
"Fortune favours the bold..."
i.e. If you can get away with it, you can do what you like/the law doesn't apply to me...

[erol]

The possible future that has him impeached and found guilty within the next 24 - 48 hours, that was unthinkable a mere handful of hours earlier, is becoming more possible with every new tweet or statement he makes, with every new 'double down'. (imo and still riveted)

[Hedge-fund]

A women has been shot dead inside the Capitol building.

RIP

[thornaby]

Its sickening that people are unable to accept a democratic vote!!!

[Deniz1]

4 people dead because of him.

[erol]

and still after all this 6 / 7 republican senators voted to try and over turn votes in Arizona and Pennsylvania !

[Groucho]

I seem to remember predicting this would happen in November.... Egged-on by Trump and Giuliani - why? Probably because they know time in the pokey is all they have coming... and now they are of no use to Putin.

Will Trump issue pardons for himself and his cronies remains my only question.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Coup? Jesus Christ this is the sort of hyperbole that makes me laugh and is beginning to frighten me.
Sure let's imprison Trump? How about we execute the protestors? All in the name of democracy of course.

How about it was a protest that wasn't as large and organised as those by BLM or Antifa.
It is the demonstration by one side that was going to happen from the other side if Trump won. Those boarded up shop fronts on the day of the election weren't for Trump supporters were they?

Trump is gone and that is no bad thing. Just worry about what comes next.
I just hope sleepy Joe does what comes naturally, nothing, and stays healthy for the next 4 years

[Groucho]

It is the demonstration by one side that was going to happen from the other side if Trump won.

Says you... nobody else believes Biden supporters would have stormed the building so you are clutching at straws to justify your earlier contention... yes it was you, in true redneck mode.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

It is the demonstration by one side that was going to happen from the other side if Trump won.

Says you... nobody else believes Biden supporters would have stormed the building so you are clutching at straws to justify your earlier contention... yes it was you, in true redneck mode.

Have you been living on Mars for the last few years?

I'm sure it would have been like last summer in the UK. Peaceful BLM march 70-100 police injured. Anti BLM RIOT 3 police injured.

How many stormed the Capitol building? 12? Not like any coup I've ever seen.

Anyhow Biden is a nobody in this. He will sleep his way through the next 4 years, Enjoy the free airplane and slip a few opportunities Hunter's way. Please god he stays healthy and the VP doesn't take power. That is an entirely different kettle of fish.

Had Trump won in November there would have been organised riots throughout America. You know it and I know it.
Mind you it looks like a lot of the rioters would have been wearing MAGA hats.

[Groucho]

Well true to form you draw parallels with somewhere else to clutch at more straws, you are without doubt the worst kind of Troll and to be quite honest I see little point in any further debate with you as debate is not what you are about... In fact I'd say you were being deliberately confrontational to try and draw attention away from your pro anything that is not Democrat stance. Well you have been measured... You can complete the line...

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Well true to form you draw parallels with somewhere else to clutch at more straws, you are without doubt the worst kind of Troll and to be quite honest I see little point in any further debate with you as debate is not what you are about... In fact I'd say you were being deliberately confrontational to try and draw attention away from your pro anything that is not Democrat stance. Well you have been measured... You can completed the line...

Because I pointed out that the left are pretty keen on violent demonstrations too?
OK I'll not be confrontational. Should Trump had won in November I'm sure his opponents would have got fully behind the elected President. I have zero evidence to back this up but......

[EnjoyingTheSun]

The biggest difference had this had been the other way around would have been that it would have all been about the death of the protestors rather than the actual riot.
Was the force to repel the protestors proportionate? Are the government running a shoot to kill policy against legitimate protests? etc etc.

[stellasstar1]

Apart from anything else, look at all those people gathered together shouting and spitting with no face masks., so another surge of infections.

[kibsolar1999]

keep going groucho,
otherwise this forum will soon be a meeting point for (far) rights only, which ( often hide their opinions behind "democratic and liberal" positions and) will invite each other to knock their heads on walls incl a culinary doubtful combination of chinese food + turkish redwine.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Its sickening that people are unable to accept a democratic vote!!!

A lot of people saying that on twitter today.

The fact that an awful lot of them are remainers who spent 4 years trying to overturn a vote by any means possible did make me laugh

[Brazen]

keep going groucho,
otherwise this forum will soon be a meeting point for (far) rights only, which ( often hide their opinions behind "democratic and liberal" positions and) will invite each other to knock their heads on walls incl a culinary doubtful combination of chinese food + turkish redwine.

Could you please define “far right” for me?

[EnjoyingTheSun]

keep going groucho,
otherwise this forum will soon be a meeting point for (far) rights only, which ( often hide their opinions behind "democratic and liberal" positions and) will invite each other to knock their heads on walls incl a culinary doubtful combination of chinese food + turkish redwine.

I think you'll find that most of the millions of people that Stalin murdered were labelled as far right or fascist.

I'm not far right because I don't like totalitarian governments, that take state control over everyday life and censor dissenting opinions. I also find that when their project fails they have a tendency to murder a lot of people at worst or keep them in poverty or oppressed at worst.
I have that view whether they wear a black shirt or a red cap. I find that one are impatient so are easy to see where they are coming from. The other are far more insidious and patient and can fool people until it is too late.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Could you please define “far right” for me?

I can help with that

[Wines Of The World]

What a pleasant change from COVID

[Dalartokat]

Coup? Jesus Christ this is the sort of hyperbole that makes me laugh and is beginning to frighten me.
Sure let's imprison Trump? How about we execute the protestors? All in the name of democracy of course.

How about it was a protest that wasn't as large and organised as those by BLM or Antifa.
It is the demonstration by one side that was going to happen from the other side if Trump won. Those boarded up shop fronts on the day of the election weren't for Trump supporters were they?

Trump is gone and that is no bad thing. Just worry about what comes next.
I just hope sleepy Joe does what comes naturally, nothing, and stays healthy for the next 4 years

What else do you want to call it, Desperate Coup, Attempted Coup, Mob Coup, Seige, Element of Surprise, Day of Violence, Storm at Capital Hill.

Whatever you want to call it or see it as, it was wrong and it was dangerous and Trump was the instigator behind it all.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

What else do you want to call it, Desperate Coup, Attempted Coup, Mob Coup, Seige, Element of Surprise, Day of Violence, Storm at Capital Hill.

I'd call it what it was, a violent demonstration and I won't argue it, like all violent demonstrations, was wrong. But lets not be hypocritical here, had Trump won we would have seen the same.

[erol]

It is the demonstration by one side that was going to happen from the other side if Trump won.

Demonstrations happen on both sides. What has never happened before is for the sitting president to refuse to accept the election result even after all legal means to challenge it have been tried and failed. No president has been complicit in inciting people to such acts with an incessant stream of untruths and lies. The damage such actions do is to me real and material. When you dismiss this to me you support the idea that this kind of behaviour is 'ok', nothing to make a fuss about and we should all just move along. You either believe in democracy and the democratic systems and institution's and procedures or you do not in my book. How anyone can claim to believe in democracy and dismiss Trumps actions as 'just normal and what the other side would do' is beyond my ability to understand. I find it impossible to believe if a democrat president did what Trump is doing your attitude to that would be the same.

[kibsolar1999]

But lets not be hypocritical here, had Trump won we would have seen the same.

no.

if if we would have seen a "biden crowd" entering the Senat, we would have seen 400 arrested and 20 dead.
(not 13 + 1 (4) )

[erol]

What else do you want to call it, Desperate Coup, Attempted Coup, Mob Coup, Seige, Element of Surprise, Day of Violence, Storm at Capital Hill.

I'd call it what it was, a violent demonstration and I won't argue it, like all violent demonstrations, was wrong. But lets not be hypocritical here, had Trump won we would have seen the same.

Had Trump won we would have seen Biden continue to call the election fraudulent, after all legal challenges and incite people to 'make their voices heard' by marching on capitol hill ? Do you really believe that ?

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Had Trump won we would have seen Biden continue to call the election fraudulent, after all legal challenges and incite people to 'make their voices heard' by marching on capitol hill ? Do you really believe that ?

So we've not seen countless unsuccessful legal attempts to bring up Russian interference at the 2016 election?

[erol]

The issue here for me is not the demonstration. That is an effect. The issue is the cause - and that is Trumps refusal to accept the result and his attempts to go 'straight to the people' to rectify that after all legal means of challenge have been tried and failed. You can not have democracy if the loser refuses to accept the result and uses lies to convince ordinary good people that their votes have been stolen when they can not produce any evidence that this is true. This is stuff of the highest order dangerous to me. It is unprecedented imo. You dismissal of this is to me EJS tant amount to appeasement at best. No president in modern times has attempted to hold on to power in the way Trump is. The damage is real and material and the four lives lost at capitol hill are a tiny drop in that ocean of damage.

How does tyranny start ? Does it not always start with someone disregarding all legal means and routes and attempting to seize or hold on to power ? Is this not exactly what Trump is trying to do ?

[erol]

Had Trump won we would have seen Biden continue to call the election fraudulent, after all legal challenges and incite people to 'make their voices heard' by marching on capitol hill ? Do you really believe that ?

So we've not seen countless unsuccessful legal attempts to bring up Russian interference at the 2016 election?

Yes legal - that is the key difference. Can you really not see the difference ? Trump used all legal means to challenge the election result and failed miserably because there is nothing to support the outrageous claims. Trump is beyond using legal means to challenge the election result. He is using illegal means to do so and you will not condemn that or accept that democrats have not done this. Shame on you.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

if if we would have seen a "biden crowd" entering the Senat, we would have seen 400 arrested and 20 dead.
(not 13 + 1 (4) )

So a bigger crowd?

In the endless 'peaceful' demonstrations in America re the BLM how many times have we seen the demonstrators shot down by the police or army?

So basically you admit that there would have been a demonstration and what would have been the lead story would have been the demonstrators killed rather than the actual riot?

[dwr]

Where is the hero of the Brexiteers? Nigel Nigel please let us hear you!!

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Yes legal - that is the key difference. Can you really not see the difference ? Trump used all legal means to challenge the election result and failed miserably because there is nothing to support the outrageous claims. Trump is beyond using legal means to challenge the election result. He is using illegal means to do so and you will not condemn that or accept that democrats have not done this. Shame on you.

And cue the faux outrage.
So you've not seen endless not my president violent demonstrations?
They are still banging on about the Gore Bush result to this day.

He went the legal route and those cases and evidence have been examined with astonishing speed. Justice doesn't just have to be done it has to be seen to be done.
Now I don't know whether it would have made any difference and there has been a lot of fake evidence or ludicrous conspiracy theories but there are certain results in that election that made no sense and for future elections should be examined far more carefully than has been the case.
The media and authorities wrote off any thought there could have been vote tampering within an hour of the votes being counted.

Personally I think there were a few things that weren't right and it highlighted a fair few windows of opportunity.
It's doubtful whether it would have made any difference to the final result but the rush to write off legitimate concerns because we got him out can never be a good thing. Democracy works when people feel their vote counts.

Trump is a child and was always going to be a bad loser but I think he was pushing at an open door here.

'

[Mowgli597]

I believe over 60 legal challenges were brought by Trump supporters against the US election result.

All bar one (I think) was dismissed, including those adjudged by Trump supporters (particularly the Attorney General appointed by him).

As I understand it they were all brought in states where Trump lost. Were any brought in states where he won?

That they were all dismissed out of hand as part of some anti-Trump conspiracy seems hard to believe.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

As I understand it they were all brought in states where Trump lost. Were any brought in states where he won?

Yes that's a really great point but that's because Trump is a fascist, white supremacist who is trying to rob the finest orator since Martin Luther King of his victory.
I will leave it to you to cite the countless examples of politicians trying to overturn wins.

[kibsolar1999]

but there are certain results in that election that made no sense and for future elections should be examined far more carefully than has been the case.

you are absolutely right.
eg,
- numbers of electoral votes based on population
- seats in the senat based on population
- constituency division corrected to "normal"
- cancel withdrawal of voting rights because of minor offences
- give a or better possibility to those eligible to get that right "back"
- in general make access to vote easier.
and so on and so on.

great idea.

[erol]

Yes legal - that is the key difference. Can you really not see the difference ? Trump used all legal means to challenge the election result and failed miserably because there is nothing to support the outrageous claims. Trump is beyond using legal means to challenge the election result. He is using illegal means to do so and you will not condemn that or accept that democrats have not done this. Shame on you.

And cue the faux outrage.
So you've not seen endless not my president violent demonstrations?
They are still banging on about the Gore Bush result to this day.

He went the legal route and those cases and evidence have been examined with astonishing speed. Justice doesn't just have to be done it has to be seen to be done.
Now I don't know whether it would have made any difference and there has been a lot of fake evidence or ludicrous conspiracy theories but there are certain results in that election that made no sense and for future elections should be examined far more carefully than has been the case.
The media and authorities wrote off any thought there could have been vote tampering within an hour of the votes being counted.

Personally I think there were a few things that weren't right and it highlighted a fair few windows of opportunity.
It's doubtful whether it would have made any difference to the final result but the rush to write off legitimate concerns because we got him out can never be a good thing. Democracy works when people feel their vote counts.

Trump is a child and was always going to be a bad loser but I think he was pushing at an open door here.

'

Gore conceded defeat after all legal avenues to challenge it were exhausted. he did not go out there and claim that it was fraudulent stolen and call on the people to to rise up. There can be no democracy if the loser is allowed to continue to claim it was stolen after all legal challenges are exhausted and seek to use non legal means to over turn it. That is exactly what Trump is doing. That he is most likely to fail in this effort does not mean that its 'ok'. In my book you either condemn actual acts to seize / hold on to power illegally or you do not. You appear to not do so , if its someone on the right who is actually doing it whilst at same time banging on about the danger it might be done in the UK by the left.

All I see is someone who IS trying to illegally hold on to power - the definition of a would be tyrant and all you do is dismiss or excuse or distract from this reality. At the same time you claim your fear in the UK is someone on the left will try and do this if they ever get power, yet this has never happened to date and is to my mind pure fantasy. It just makes no sense to me.

The only explanation for such from where I sit that makes any sense to me is that you are simply incapable of escaping your 'simplification' as to how the world works that says - left always bad, right always good - no matter the actually reality staring you in the face. By your actions you appear to believe this 'truth' to a level that is beyond the brain washed of the left or the members of a cult. All while labelling others sheep I might add. You have taken what is a 'short cut' to trying to understand the world and started to believe this some kind of fundamental law and reality of the universe. It is not.

[erol]

How can outrage at someone trying to illegal hold on to power be 'faux' ? It is outrageous. It can only be outrageous to anyone who believes in democracy. It is the definition of outrageous.

compare with the faux fear that had corbyn won the election the UK would now be a single party state along the lines of china or north korea.

Sorry but its just pathetic to me to make out people who are outraged at Trump trying to illegal hold on to power are expressing 'faux' outrage.

[erol]

As I understand it they were all brought in states where Trump lost. Were any brought in states where he won?

Yes that's a really great point but that's because Trump is a fascist, white supremacist who is trying to rob the finest orator since Martin Luther King of his victory.
I will leave it to you to cite the countless examples of politicians trying to overturn wins.

Trump is illegally trying to hold on to power. This is just fact of the same order of the fact that he lost the election as fair and square as any US election has ever been. Your defence of this attempt by someone to illegal hold on to power after the people have legitimately voted them out undermines for me all your expressed 'faux' fears about tyranny. If you will not condemn it when its actually happening, because the person doing such is of the right, then you expressed fear that it might happen should the left gain power just fall on deaf ears

[erol]

why do you think it is EJS that only you are able to express anything that is not a 'faux' expression where as everything anyone else express that you disagree with is 'faux' by default. Is this another law of the universe perhaps ?

[EnjoyingTheSun]

you are absolutely right.
eg,
- numbers of electoral votes based on population
- seats in the senat based on population
- constituency division corrected to "normal"
- cancel withdrawal of voting rights because of minor offences
- give a or better possibility to those eligible to get that right "back"
- in general make access to vote easier.
and so on and so on.

great idea.

You are 100% right Kibsolar.
I think New York should elect the President and London should elect the Prime Minister because anyone living in a city will be best placed to vote for the best man for the job.
In fact why in the hell do they even give sparsely populated states or regions a vote. After all they are free to move to New York or London.

Forget withdrawing votes for any offense I think prisons are a perfect place to have voting stations. They are secure have cameras and 24 hour security.
No voter ID. It is far too difficult to expect anyone to remember their ID.<< Moderated>> They managed to arrange a postal vote but let's not push it.

Biden won 51.4% of the 66.1% turnout so that's a firm mandate. It's not as if he won 52% of a 72.1% turnout.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Yes whatever you wrote is 100% right Erol, I'm done with this nonsense.