Lockdown, Obeying the rules and politics

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EnjoyingTheSun
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Lockdown, Obeying the rules and politics

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

Selected posts from the Merit Hotel topic have been moved to this topic. Please post here if you wish to continue the wide debate on Lockdown, Obeying the Rules and Politics.

Please use the Merit Hotels topic to discuss either this hotel closure or other such closures in the TRNC.

The move of the posts may mean this topic does not read fluently but I make no apology for this.

erol wrote:
Wed 06 Jan 2021 5:24 pm

You may only be able to see the world in terms of a 'game' of between two polar binary camps with nothing in between.
No I don't use the word binary but then I only read the sport in the Guardian. I've noticed you've only started over using it recently so I'm interested was it word of the day a month or two back or there is a new writer on there who uses it a lot?
Forget lions and sheep it's like Pavlov's dog really. I could flick through a few Guardians and pretty much know what you are going to shoehorn in to a thread or start one on.

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Re: Merit Closes today

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EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Wed 06 Jan 2021 5:45 pm
erol wrote:
Wed 06 Jan 2021 5:24 pm

You may only be able to see the world in terms of a 'game' of between two polar binary camps with nothing in between.
No I don't use the word binary but then I only read the sport in the Guardian. I've noticed you've only started over using it recently so I'm interested was it word of the day a month or two back or there is a new writer on there who uses it a lot?
Forget lions and sheep it's like Pavlov's dog really. I could flick through a few Guardians and pretty much know what you are going to shoehorn in to a thread or start one on.
It is the result of a dawning realisation that is the accumulation of my 54 years of existence to date. It is an expression of my identity of who I am or at least who I currently think I am.

We are finite beings struggling to understand the infinite universe we live in. We have to use short cuts. There is no other option. Dividing the universe in to simplified binary camps is what we have to do. This is not the 'problem'. The problem is when we take something that is only a shortcut, can only ever be a shortcut and start believing and behaving as if the short cut is the actual underlying reality of the universe. I am increasingly coming to the view / belief that it is this that is actually both the root off the vast majority of human conflict and our inability to overcome that and not the issue itself that prompted the simplification in the first place

This is a theory that it has taken my whole life to date to come too and not some buzz word I read in the guardian. It however did 'solidify' in my head and move from feeling to expressible idea fairly recently and with a speed that was frightening as well as it was exhilarating. This solidification was so fast and so profound that for a while people who had know and loved me for decades were forced to wonder if I was going through some kind of breakdown. For almost six weeks I found myself unable to add 'at some level and to some degree' to any statement made to or by me. The trigger for this solidification was in fact two specific posts here on this forum, one from kibris solar and another from Sophie. I remember them vividly now still and can search and find them should anyone actually be interested.

For the record ETS in real life I find you a 'smart cookie' and one of the funniest and most entertaining people I know. I consider you a friend. To me in real life you are 'good people'. That is one shortcut I use as a finite being in an infinite world but I do this never forgetting that it is just a shortcut and not a reflection of the reality of the universe. However here in this place, you appear to have an entirely different identity to me, not in what you say but in how you say it. It is mystifying to me. Nor can I say I consider this identity, your forum one, that seems to me so different and distinct from the real life one I have of you, as being that of 'good people'.

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Re: Merit Closes today

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

Erol,

I like you too and find you good company. I do think you are very naive though but that is because you have a good heart and bless you for that.
I think in real life and typing things down things come over a lot different.

Personally I am very very worried for the future of Britain. I have voted both Conservative and Labour in the past. Sometimes I haven't voted at all because the alternatives were so uninspiring.

I never voted for Cameron as to me he was Blair in a blue rosette.
May I did vote for because she was up against a Marxist despite thinking she was the worst PM in my memory.
Johnson I also voted for and I am well aware of Johnson's character faults. This was again because he was up against a Marxist.
If Johnson doesn't do better then he will lose to Labour in the next election even if they put a wheelie bin up against him. After 15 years people generally like change even if it isn't going too bad.
The Marxists in the Labour Party know this and I can guarantee you that Starmer will not be standing against Johnson in 5 years.

The problem with Marxists is whilst you can democratically vote them in, history tells us it is virtually impossible to vote them out.

Whilst Starmer is the leader until he roots out the entryist Marxists he will not have control of the party. Personally I think they'll have him out in a year to eighteen months.
They will not go quietly, 2017 was the nearest they have ever got to power in Britain and they aren't going to voluntarily go underground for another 40 years having got that close.
Be under no illusion, these are not true socialists or far left Labour. They do not have some Marxist beliefs, these are Marxists. Tony Benn was a great defender of democracy, these people spit on democracy.

I'm amazed that they still have supporters amongst people I wouldn't think are Marxists.

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Re: Merit Closes today

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Post by Deniz1 »

Er slightly off topic!

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Re: Merit Closes today

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EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Thu 07 Jan 2021 10:55 am
The problem with Marxists is whilst you can democratically vote them in, history tells us it is virtually impossible to vote them out.
I have no fear that the UK's democratic systems will be subverted by Marxists. I have never seen it in the past in the UK and do not fear it in the future. I have faith in the UK , its democratic systems and its people in this regard. I can not say the same currently about the US and from where I am sitting it is not the Marxists that are the real immediate existential threat to their democracy. I am still amazed at the support Trump still has there.

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Re: Merit Closes today

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erol wrote:
Thu 07 Jan 2021 2:52 pm

I have no fear that the UK's democratic systems will be subverted by Marxists. I have never seen it in the past in the UK and do not fear it in the future. I have faith in the UK , its democratic systems and its people in this regard.
Would you say Corbyn. McDonnell and Milne were Communists? They seemed to think they were!
Would you say the SWP or Communist party were Communists?
Would you have an explanation as to why someone like Andrew Murray had a Damascus like conversion from a lifetime of being a member of the Communist party to suddenly joining The Labour Party?

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Re: Merit Closes today

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EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Thu 07 Jan 2021 3:29 pm
erol wrote:
Thu 07 Jan 2021 2:52 pm

I have no fear that the UK's democratic systems will be subverted by Marxists. I have never seen it in the past in the UK and do not fear it in the future. I have faith in the UK , its democratic systems and its people in this regard.
Would you say Corbyn. McDonnell and Milne were Communists? They seemed to think they were!
Would you say the SWP or Communist party were Communists?
Would you have an explanation as to why someone like Andrew Murray had a Damascus like conversion from a lifetime of being a member of the Communist party to suddenly joining The Labour Party?
I do not think Corbyn would or could have won power and then just refused to give it up and then got away with refusing to give it up. To me that is just fantasy. It5s a form of 'project fear' in my book.

What I do see in US however is someone who is not marxist, who did win power, who is refusing to give it up and who will not get away with it but is doing so with impunity.

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Re: Merit Closes today

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erol wrote:
Thu 07 Jan 2021 3:42 pm

I do not think Corbyn would or could have won power and then just refused to give it up and then got away with refusing to give it up. To me that is just fantasy. It5s a form of 'project fear' in my book.
As you skillfully avoided the question I take it you admit that Corbyn. McDonnell and Milne are Communists and that Andrew Murray is a communist entryist?

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Re: Merit Closes today

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duplicate

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Re: Merit Closes today

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EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Thu 07 Jan 2021 3:49 pm
erol wrote:
Thu 07 Jan 2021 3:42 pm

I do not think Corbyn would or could have won power and then just refused to give it up and then got away with refusing to give it up. To me that is just fantasy. It5s a form of 'project fear' in my book.
As you skillfully avoided the question I take it you admit that Corbyn. McDonnell and Milne are Communists and that Andrew Murray is a communist entryist?
I am not avoiding the question. I am avoiding your attempt to divide the complex world in to simple boxes with labels that mean different things to different people. What is comunist , what ios marxist, what is socialist - I do not want top p[lay these games as I think they are silly.

The question that is being avoided is - do you really think the UK is under threat that it will become a dictatorship id someone like corbyn ever won power ? This to me is just rhetoric of the highest order and classic 'project fear'. The risk of an elected labour government then seizing power in the uk and being allowed to get away with it is imo near zero. Certainly no more chance of the left doing this in UK and getting away with it than the right - both are near zero. Yet this is what you claimed you feared. Its nonsense. It makes no sense. Its project fear on steroids. When asked about this you then retreat back to 'so do you think communists exist in UK' and complaints that I am the one avoiding the question.

Do you REALLY believe that should someone like Corbyn win power in the UK they will then simply refuse to give it up and be allowed to get away with that ? I do not think you really believe this. I think you know it is utter nonsense. yet you will continue to make out this is your 'fear'.

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Re: Merit Closes today

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Post by Chriswright03 »

What has this to do with the topic? Yet another thread where the arguments between a couple of people on opposite sides of the Political spectrum decide to turn it into a political argument. Soner kindly created a Politics thread where you guys can argue until you are blue in the face. Not that either of you will ever give up of course.

Again in a matter of a few days I say that this sort of stuff spoils the forum for me. By all means discuss and argue but not in every thread you can possibly turn it into yet another one where folk who actually want to read something that may be important to them in this trouble time have to either ignore the thread completely or wade through this rubbish.

Yes Enjoying the Sun it is one where you tackle someone who you think is wrong but yes again it is you that has stopped me wanting to read much on here. As the saying goes there is always one but on here sadly it is usually you.

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Re: Merit Closes today

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erol wrote:
Thu 07 Jan 2021 4:17 pm

I am not avoiding the question. I am avoiding your attempt to divide the complex world in to simple boxes with labels that mean different things to different people. What is comunist , what ios marxist, what is socialist - I do not want top p[lay these games as I think they are silly.
It seems like it :)
It's a very simple question really.
erol wrote:
Thu 07 Jan 2021 4:17 pm

Do you REALLY believe that should someone like Corbyn win power in the UK they will then simply refuse to give it up and be allowed to get away with that ? I do not think you really believe this. I think you know it is utter nonsense. yet you will continue to make out this is your 'fear'.
Someone like Corbyn? A communist you mean?
I never thought communists could take over a democratic party tbh and I'll have a tenner with you that Starmer will be gone within a year unless he purges the party.
I'm struggling to think of any democratically elected Marxist government that has happily handed power back. Unless of course you are happy with the 2018 Venezuelan election?
I would hope that you are right that something like that couldn't happen in Britain but as you always say let's not take any chances eh?

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Re: Merit Closes today

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Chriswright03 wrote:
Thu 07 Jan 2021 4:22 pm
Yes Enjoying the Sun it is one where you tackle someone who you think is wrong but yes again it is you that has stopped me wanting to read much on here. As the saying goes there is always one but on here sadly it is usually you.
My first half a dozen posts on here were specifically about the Merit hotel and others closing down and I made the reasonable and I thought fairly uncontroversial point that this is a result of the lockdown. It wasn't me that turned it into a debate on the merits of a lockdown but if someone does bring up some points I don't agree with then I'll argue.

TBH I do feel like just nodding through any BS that gets put up.

Yes lockdown and it won't cost any jobs your economy will boom and everyone will live forever.
There I'm done. I'll self cancel

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Re: Merit Closes today

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Post by mrsgee »

And so the political debate is done..... anyone now have anything more to say on the subject matter...... I.e. the closure of the merit hotels and implications.... and other hotel closures .... asking for a friend...... as I truly have lost the plot...... and the will to live....

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Lockdown, Obeying the rules and politics

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Posts taken from Merit Hotel Topic and placed here to discuss or not!
Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass,it's about learning to dance in the rain

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Re: Lockdown, Obeying the rules and politics

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Post by PoshinDevon »

Here in the U.K. a very hard hitting advert has been released showing our hard pressed NHS in the battle against the virus. It really does make for difficult viewing and pulls no punches.

The theme of the advert is “look into their eyes” and ask yourself are you doing all that is required to follow the rules, protect yourself, family and all those you come in contact with. It’s focus is looking at the NHS staff and how they are handling the pressure plus looking into the eyes of those fighting the virus. If people don’t get the message watching it, then they never will.

It is likely that this current lockdown in England will be tightened and extended. Border controls are being tightened with possible hotel quarantine being imposed for all arrivals. Many experts are asking for even tighter restrictions and I personally believe it needs to happen. The fantastic vaccine rollout programme with almost 5.5M vaccinated has to be supported by a really tight lockdown in order to enter spring in a better position. The U.K. has done an excellent job on vaccine rollout, especially compared to the EU who are really struggling with supply. More mass vaccination centres are opening weekly and smaller centres are appearing in towns all over the country.

Looking ahead I think it will be at least until the end of April before we may see easing of restrictions in some parts of the country and end of the summer before things look more positive.
Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass,it's about learning to dance in the rain

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