The Brexit effect

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EnjoyingTheSun
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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

Mowgli597 wrote:
Thu 11 Feb 2021 2:46 pm
Brexit: London loses out as Europe's top share trading hub

Not such good news
Usual EU games.
"The EU does not recognise UK exchanges as having the same levels of supervisory status as its counterparts in the Netherlands, France and Germany."
Well our supervisory status would have been fine 7 weeks ago but now it isn't?
To my knowledge our AML procedures etc are exactly the same as they were 7 weeks ago.

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by kibsolar1999 »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Thu 11 Feb 2021 3:27 pm
Mowgli597 wrote:
Thu 11 Feb 2021 2:46 pm
Brexit: London loses out as Europe's top share trading hub

Not such good news
Usual EU games.
"The EU does not recognise UK exchanges as having the same levels of supervisory status as its counterparts in the Netherlands, France and Germany."
Well our supervisory status would have been fine 7 weeks ago but now it isn't?
To my knowledge our AML procedures etc are exactly the same as they were 7 weeks ago.
looks more like an "fishery issue": pls do not catch OUR fish in OUR waters.

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Re: The Brexit effect

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kibsolar1999 wrote:
Thu 11 Feb 2021 3:56 pm

looks more like an "fishery issue": pls do not catch OUR fish in OUR waters.
Not in the slightest.
One is regulations that we abided by 7 weeks ago which we haven't changed nor have the EU changed which now we are amazingly now not compliant.
The other is nothing to do with OUR fish but is everything to do with OUR waters.
If MY cat ran into YOUR house would I have the right to enter YOUR house without YOUR permission to retrieve it?

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by kibsolar1999 »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Thu 11 Feb 2021 4:14 pm
kibsolar1999 wrote:
Thu 11 Feb 2021 3:56 pm

looks more like an "fishery issue": pls do not catch OUR fish in OUR waters.
Not in the slightest.
One is regulations that we abided by 7 weeks ago which we haven't changed nor have the EU changed which now we are amazingly now not compliant.
The other is nothing to do with OUR fish but is everything to do with OUR waters.
If MY cat ran into YOUR house would I have the right to enter YOUR house without YOUR permission to retrieve it?
ok then. its a cat issue.
"I" (the EU) will make it more difficult for your cat to come to my house to catch the turkey out of my oven and bring it to your waters.
fair enough, or?
btw, the UK did not "abide" to anything.. "financial services" were not part of the deal. the UK has the "sovereignty and freedom" to change financial rules at any time.
(singapore on the thames...)

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Re: The Brexit effect

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kibsolar1999 wrote:
Thu 11 Feb 2021 5:13 pm

the UK has the "sovereignty and freedom" to change financial rules at any time.
(singapore on the thames...)
And they haven't, so there is no problem unless you invent one which the EU are very good at.

As for the cat and turkey bit I don't have access to LCD so that doesn't make sense unfortunately.

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by waz-24-7 »

Walesforever wrote:
Thu 11 Feb 2021 11:19 am
Waz

You didn’t answer what you hoped would happen in the first 5 weeks of Brexit.

BTW Another update
Cadbury’s have just announced they will be relocating back to their old HQ in Bournville Midlands from the EU creating 400 jobs.
In the first 5 weeks I didn't expect much real impact. It is clear that much has happened. A lot as a consequence of Covid but definitely certain industrial sectors and other issues are experiencing the Brexit effect. Fishing, Logistics, The Irish/UK interface. Financial services, performing arts.

Upon the Cadbury's announcement. This was mentioned earlier in the thread. Cadburys is a USA owned brand it was sold on by Kraft 2 yrs ago.
The move back to home territory is certainly not a Brexit motivated decision. It is based on Market share and forces , competition and profitability.
European and USA markets have not proved lucrative for the Archetypal British brand. Of course the 400 jobs are welcomed but this decision is not a Brexit driven decision.

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by waz-24-7 »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Thu 11 Feb 2021 3:27 pm
Mowgli597 wrote:
Thu 11 Feb 2021 2:46 pm
Brexit: London loses out as Europe's top share trading hub

Not such good news
Usual EU games.
"The EU does not recognise UK exchanges as having the same levels of supervisory status as its counterparts in the Netherlands, France and Germany."
Well our supervisory status would have been fine 7 weeks ago but now it isn't?
To my knowledge our AML procedures etc are exactly the same as they were 7 weeks ago.
Yes this is quite correct. However you cannot expect post divorce co operation to be as was. Others within the EU are able to do what London does with ease. The competition are simply capitalising upon a weakened UK. Amsterdam is doing just what London would do if the NL had left the Union.
I'm afraid the anti EU and antagonistic rhetoric towards our biggest and important customer can only lead to loss. Anyone who thinks you have the cake and eat it should wake up and smell the coffee.

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Re: The Brexit effect

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waz-24-7 wrote:
Thu 11 Feb 2021 8:14 pm

Yes this is quite correct. However you cannot expect post divorce co operation to be as was.
You can expect honesty though but the EU has difficulty telling the truth so makes up regulatory nonsense as a default position.
Maybe now people will acknowledge that a lot of the EUs regulations have zero to do with concerns for health or legal safeguards and everything to do with protectionism.

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by Mowgli597 »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Fri 12 Feb 2021 12:01 am
waz-24-7 wrote:
Thu 11 Feb 2021 8:14 pm

Yes this is quite correct. However you cannot expect post divorce co operation to be as was.
You can expect honesty though but the EU has difficulty telling the truth so makes up regulatory nonsense as a default position.
Maybe now people will acknowledge that a lot of the EUs regulations have zero to do with concerns for health or legal safeguards and everything to do with protectionism.
But, as pointed out earlier, is this not the same as the U.K.’s issue with fisheries?

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Mowgli597 wrote:
Fri 12 Feb 2021 10:31 am

But, as pointed out earlier, is this not the same as the U.K.’s issue with fisheries?
As answered earlier, nope.

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by Mowgli597 »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Thu 11 Feb 2021 6:36 pm
kibsolar1999 wrote:
Thu 11 Feb 2021 5:13 pm

the UK has the "sovereignty and freedom" to change financial rules at any time.
(singapore on the thames...)
And they haven't, so there is no problem unless you invent one which the EU are very good at.

As for the cat and turkey bit I don't have access to LCD so that doesn't make sense unfortunately.
You mean this answer?

I’m sorry but I don’t see how that answered kibsolar’s point that the U.K. can change the rules any time unilaterally.

Prior to Brexit the U.K. was subject to oversight by the EU and followed its regulatory system. Thus if the U.K. decided unilaterally to change the rules regarding financial trading then it could have been brought to account under that EU-wide regulatory regime.

Now it can’t, can it?

So now isn’t the EU effectively saying that since we can’t be sure what you might want to do then we’re going to protect ourselves against that possibility? After all, you have recent history of riding roughshod over internationally binding legal agreements between us - or at least threatening to do so.

That’s the change since seven weeks ago.

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by kibsolar1999 »

Mowgli597 wrote:
Fri 12 Feb 2021 10:31 am
EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Fri 12 Feb 2021 12:01 am
waz-24-7 wrote:
Thu 11 Feb 2021 8:14 pm

Yes this is quite correct. However you cannot expect post divorce co operation to be as was.
You can expect honesty though but the EU has difficulty telling the truth so makes up regulatory nonsense as a default position.
Maybe now people will acknowledge that a lot of the EUs regulations have zero to do with concerns for health or legal safeguards and everything to do with protectionism.
But, as pointed out earlier, is this not the same as the U.K.’s issue with fisheries?
well, yes and no.
about fisheries a deal was agreed ( for the now and what will happen in the future...), about financial services not.
so, this part of the divide is a hard brexit.
therefore, from 1.st of january 2021 onwards, both sides do not recognize their "financial control authorities" any more, no matter that "until today" nothing changed.

one of the issues was the "post brexit agenda" of the UK to start trade with the swiss again, which was stopped in 2019 as no EU-Switzerland agreement about Exchange equivalency could be agreed to.....

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Mowgli597 wrote:
Fri 12 Feb 2021 11:49 am

So now isn’t the EU effectively saying that since we can’t be sure what you might want to do then we’re going to protect ourselves against that possibility? After all, you have recent history of riding roughshod over internationally binding legal agreements between us - or at least threatening to do so.

That’s the change since seven weeks ago.
Yep the EU effectively inventing stuff, over regulating and being awkward and obstructive.

You have a driving licence?
How about the authorities decide to take your driving licence because they can't be sure that from errr lets say 12th February that you won't drive dangerously and kill someone in the future. They don't need any evidence that that might be the case and will of course ignore any history of good driving pre 12th February.
After all it has your tacit support because you don't seem to mind that kind of decision.

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by Mowgli597 »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Fri 12 Feb 2021 12:27 pm
Mowgli597 wrote:
Fri 12 Feb 2021 11:49 am

So now isn’t the EU effectively saying that since we can’t be sure what you might want to do then we’re going to protect ourselves against that possibility? After all, you have recent history of riding roughshod over internationally binding legal agreements between us - or at least threatening to do so.

That’s the change since seven weeks ago.
Yep the EU effectively inventing stuff, over regulating and being awkward and obstructive.

You have a driving licence?
How about the authorities decide to take your driving licence because they can't be sure that from errr lets say 12th February that you won't drive dangerously and kill someone in the future. They don't need any evidence that that might be the case and will of course ignore any history of good driving pre 12th February.
After all it has your tacit support because you don't seem to mind that kind of decision.
With the greatest of respect that’s nonsense and you know it is.

We’re talking about international trade agreements and the “policing” thereof. How would you control such agreements? Or are they simply left to each side to decide what they want to do and, if the other doesn’t agree, what then?

And again with the greatest of respect one party to this discussion has already shown its “history of ‘good driving’ prior ...” in its threat to ignore any legally binding agreement between the two parties.

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Mowgli597 wrote:
Fri 12 Feb 2021 2:10 pm

With the greatest of respect that’s nonsense and you know it is.
Were the U.K. financial institutions compliant to EU regulations 7 weeks ago?
If they were what regulations have we amended that would mean they are not compliant?
What new EU regulations have come out that we do not follow?
All that is changed is we are now not a member of the club.
That’s fine, then be honest and say you are not a member of our club so we are going to push business towards those countries that are still a member of our club but don’t come up with this nonsense.

I came to live here and had a UK/EU driving licence. After 90 days I was expected to obtain a TRNC licence. The authorities accepted that the conditions I had already fulfilled to have a U.K./EU licence were sufficient for me to apply for and be given a TRNC driving licence.
What they didn’t say was that the test to receive a TRNC driving licence was so much more difficult to pass than a U.K. driving licence that I would have to take a TRNC test and then probably stop me taking a TRNC test. Because it would have been far more honest to say TRNC roads are just for Cypriot or Turkish drivers and you are not allowed to drive on them.

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by Mowgli597 »

No one has questioned that the regulations seven weeks ago were sufficient for the U.K. and EU to trade, as it were, financially. That they haven’t changed since then isn’t in question.

What is in question is what happens if one side (in this case the U.K.) changes their regulations to make it easier for financial institutions. To lower the bar.

What do you do then? Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who watches the watchers?

It has nothing to do with driving licences.

Perfidious Albion has already shown what the current administration thinks of internationally binding agreements when it suits them

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Mowgli597 wrote:
Fri 12 Feb 2021 4:12 pm

What is in question is what happens if one side (in this case the U.K.) changes their regulations to make it easier for financial institutions. To lower the bar.

What do you do then? Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who watches the watchers?
So the question is something that hasn’t happened and is unlikely to happen?

I assume you haven’t murdered anyone?
I assume you are physically capable of murdering someone?
I assume there are people that you don’t particularly like?
I guess the only way of guaranteeing everyone’s future safety is to give you life imprisonment now to ensure you don’t murder someone in the future?
I’m all for proactive policing and don’t think it is done enough but I’m going to take the risk and give you the benefit of the doubt on this one.

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Mowgli597 wrote:
Fri 12 Feb 2021 4:12 pm
No one has questioned that the regulations seven weeks ago were sufficient for the U.K. and EU to trade, as it were, financially. That they haven’t changed since then isn’t in question.

What is in question is what happens if one side (in this case the U.K.) changes their regulations to make it easier for financial institutions. To lower the bar.

What do you do then? Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who watches the watchers?

It has nothing to do with driving licences.

Perfidious Albion has already shown what the current administration thinks of internationally binding agreements when it suits them
What binding international agreements have the current administration broken? I would be very interested in finding that out.

All I know is that the EU threatened to break a binding international agreement - before backing down.

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Re: The Brexit effect

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EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Fri 12 Feb 2021 4:35 pm
Mowgli597 wrote:
Fri 12 Feb 2021 4:12 pm

What is in question is what happens if one side (in this case the U.K.) changes their regulations to make it easier for financial institutions. To lower the bar.

What do you do then? Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who watches the watchers?
So the question is something that hasn’t happened and is unlikely to happen?
Why do you keep dodging the question - something which you’re quick to accuse others of?

IF the U.K. decided to unilaterally change the regulations under which financial trading takes place then how is that going to be handled?

Yes. It MAY never happen but it well might. And recent history has shown that the U.K. can’t be trusted, no matter what international legal agreements they have signed up to. So why do you say it’s unlikely to happen? (QV)

And please don’t start “whataboutery” - just address the question.

And stop bringing my driving habits or propensity to commit murder into it.

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Brazen wrote:
Fri 12 Feb 2021 4:55 pm
Mowgli597 wrote:
Fri 12 Feb 2021 4:12 pm
No one has questioned that the regulations seven weeks ago were sufficient for the U.K. and EU to trade, as it were, financially. That they haven’t changed since then isn’t in question.

What is in question is what happens if one side (in this case the U.K.) changes their regulations to make it easier for financial institutions. To lower the bar.

What do you do then? Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who watches the watchers?

It has nothing to do with driving licences.

Perfidious Albion has already shown what the current administration thinks of internationally binding agreements when it suits them
What binding international agreements have the current administration broken? I would be very interested in finding that out.

All I know is that the EU threatened to break a binding international agreement - before backing down.
Are you serious? Do you disagree with anything that is contrary to your rose-tinted view of the U.K.?

Brandon Lewis, U.K. Secretary of State for Northern Ireland - a senior Cabinet member of the U.K.’s current government - agreed that “Boris Johnson's Brexit Deal Plan Breaks The Law”

He admitted: "Yes this does break international law in a very specific and limited way,"

See for example

Well that’s alright then.

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by kibsolar1999 »

Brazen wrote:
Fri 12 Feb 2021 4:55 pm
Mowgli597 wrote:
Fri 12 Feb 2021 4:12 pm
No one has questioned that the regulations seven weeks ago were sufficient for the U.K. and EU to trade, as it were, financially. That they haven’t changed since then isn’t in question.

What is in question is what happens if one side (in this case the U.K.) changes their regulations to make it easier for financial institutions. To lower the bar.

What do you do then? Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who watches the watchers?

It has nothing to do with driving licences.

Perfidious Albion has already shown what the current administration thinks of internationally binding agreements when it suits them
What binding international agreements have the current administration broken? I would be very interested in finding that out.

All I know is that the EU threatened to break a binding international agreement - before backing down.
the UK backed down, the EU backed down... but this is all not the case here...
here the case is that an agreement/deal about financial services after brexit is NOT in place.

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Mowgli597 wrote:
Fri 12 Feb 2021 5:11 pm

Why do you keep dodging the question - something which you’re quick to accuse others of?

IF the U.K. decided to unilaterally change the regulations under which financial trading takes place then how is that going to be handled?

Yes. It MAY never happen but it well might. And recent history has shown that the U.K. can’t be trusted, no matter what international legal agreements they have signed up to. So why do you say it’s unlikely to happen? (QV)

And please don’t start “whataboutery” - just address the question.

And stop bringing my driving habits or propensity to commit murder into it.
What question? A question on something that hasn’t happened and is highly unlikely to ever happen?
People put their money where they trust it will be safe. The U.K. has a long reputation for safety. Why would that change? If it changes and is viewed as not being safe then the U.K. would no longer be a financial centre.
It’s like casinos. In the very short term a casino can do well by fiddling its customers but there is no long term future in it.
”It may never happen but it might?”
Seriously?
That is why I bring up your propensity to commit murder because it is a logical as your argument.

There are very stringent, some would say over stringent, EU money laundering regulations. It is far more likely that countries within the EU might not apply them as strictly as the EU envisioned given that they are a classic case of over regulation.

Just be honest. The UK left the EU something the current government pushed through. You don’t like Brexit or don’t like the current government or both and no punishment for the U.K. no matter how illogical will be enough as far as you are concerned.

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by Mowgli597 »

I still haven’t seen an answer from you.

What happens IF one side breaks an international trade agreement?
EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Fri 12 Feb 2021 5:50 pm

There are very stringent, some would say over stringent, EU money laundering regulations. It is far more likely that countries within the EU might not apply them as strictly as the EU envisioned given that they are a classic case of over regulation.

(My emphases)
QED
EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Fri 12 Feb 2021 5:50 pm

Just be honest. The UK left the EU something the current government pushed through. You don’t like Brexit or don’t like the current government or both and no punishment for the U.K. no matter how illogical will be enough as far as you are concerned.
I have no like or dislike of the U.K., it’s government or Brexit. I simply ask the question and try to seek an answer from those whose scotomas, blind spots, seem to make them unable to see anything other than that Brexit is the best thing since sliced bread and any contrary view has to be attacked, usually by ad hominem arguments against the poster.

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Mowgli597 wrote:
Fri 12 Feb 2021 6:09 pm


I have no like or dislike of the U.K., it’s government or Brexit.
Of course not 😀
Btw I never said you disliked the U.K. I assume you are British and would not dislike your own country. That said, these days who knows?

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by Mowgli597 »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Fri 12 Feb 2021 6:28 pm
Mowgli597 wrote:
Fri 12 Feb 2021 6:09 pm


I have no like or dislike of the U.K., it’s government or Brexit.
Of course not 😀
Btw I never said you disliked the U.K. I assume you are British and would not dislike your own country. That said, these days who knows?
And we know what “ass-u-me” makes!

I guess this has run its course since there appears to be no chance of a reply to my question, and as another poster has said the issue is moot since there is also no agreement wrt financial dealings between the U.K. and the EU.

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by waz-24-7 »

It remains deeply concerning that some take the view that the EU is now or indeed has been for some time the enemy.

The Brexit separation from the EU falls into 2 main areas of concern. One that will effect the economic position of both individual Unions and the other is the effect that separation will have upon citizen rights and freedoms.
The antagonistic approach and blame culture that I see on this forum will not improve the position and is quite destructive.
The EU is by far the most visited region by UK citizens for business and pleasure. The EU is likely to remain our biggest customer.
To unliterally attack and antagonise, (either way) will not lead to a better understanding of the clear problems nor will a peaceful co operation come forth. Both parties are now in a position of loss and weakness. This is quite mad.
Of course it was the UK that voted to leave. That is accepted but it is abundantly clear that post divorce antics are illustrating some uncomfortable positions. Of course Amsterdam and Frankfurt want to compete with London Financial markets. Of course The EU will fight to steal UK trade. Are they ready and up for it ...certainly.

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by PoshinDevon »

waz-24-7 wrote:
Fri 12 Feb 2021 8:32 pm
It remains deeply concerning that some take the view that the EU is now or indeed has been for some time the enemy.

The Brexit separation from the EU falls into 2 main areas of concern. One that will effect the economic position of both individual Unions and the other is the effect that separation will have upon citizen rights and freedoms.
The antagonistic approach and blame culture that I see on this forum will not improve the position and is quite destructive.
The EU is by far the most visited region by UK citizens for business and pleasure. The EU is likely to remain our biggest customer.
To unliterally attack and antagonise, (either way) will not lead to a better understanding of the clear problems nor will a peaceful co operation come forth. Both parties are now in a position of loss and weakness. This is quite mad.
Of course it was the UK that voted to leave. That is accepted but it is abundantly clear that post divorce antics are illustrating some uncomfortable positions. Of course Amsterdam and Frankfurt want to compete with London Financial markets. Of course The EU will fight to steal UK trade. Are they ready and up for it ...certainly.
The position of the U.K. and the EU is that we are both trading partners and competitors. Therefore of course we will look to trade with each other but at the same time compete with each other.

Given the new trade deals or trade alliances with many countries outside the EU being announced by the U.K. almost weekly, I remain happy with our new position in the world.

Things will not be perfect but I for one am bored of inane ramblings by those who pour cold water on anything the U.K. achieves. We have left the EU, we have a deal with them but are now also forging deals with the rest of the world. I cannot understand how anyone thinks that’s a bad thing.
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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by waz-24-7 »

PoshinDevon wrote:
Fri 12 Feb 2021 11:15 pm
waz-24-7 wrote:
Fri 12 Feb 2021 8:32 pm
It remains deeply concerning that some take the view that the EU is now or indeed has been for some time the enemy.

The Brexit separation from the EU falls into 2 main areas of concern. One that will effect the economic position of both individual Unions and the other is the effect that separation will have upon citizen rights and freedoms.
The antagonistic approach and blame culture that I see on this forum will not improve the position and is quite destructive.
The EU is by far the most visited region by UK citizens for business and pleasure. The EU is likely to remain our biggest customer.
To unliterally attack and antagonise, (either way) will not lead to a better understanding of the clear problems nor will a peaceful co operation come forth. Both parties are now in a position of loss and weakness. This is quite mad.
Of course it was the UK that voted to leave. That is accepted but it is abundantly clear that post divorce antics are illustrating some uncomfortable positions. Of course Amsterdam and Frankfurt want to compete with London Financial markets. Of course The EU will fight to steal UK trade. Are they ready and up for it ...certainly.
The position of the U.K. and the EU is that we are both trading partners and competitors. Therefore of course we will look to trade with each other but at the same time compete with each other.

Given the new trade deals or trade alliances with many countries outside the EU being announced by the U.K. almost weekly, I remain happy with our new position in the world.

Things will not be perfect but I for one am bored of inane ramblings by those who pour cold water on anything the U.K. achieves. We have left the EU, we have a deal with them but are now also forging deals with the rest of the world. I cannot understand how anyone thinks that’s a bad thing.
I too cannot think why anyone should regard any trade a bad thing. Bar a few that clearly take the view that trading or indeed co existing with the EU is a bad thing. How dare they compete with Great Britain!!

Posh your content with the weekly new trade deals exhibit a lack of experience when it come to business. A trade deal is one thing. winning trade within that market is quite another. To suggest these trade ( which is a positive) deals will someway replace our current EU customer base is quite foolish.
The costs involved in sales, marketing and just seeking out trade on a global scale is outside the resources scope of most SME within the UK economy. Certainly trade is out there for some.
This is not a negative against the new trade deals you report. It is simply a comment upon the real state of trade and business currently being experienced by many within the UK economy. The true picture will emerge as the ONS declare export and GDP figures.
Rest assured, if the figures are good and reflect your positivity. I will be out front to congratulate our Government. Signs are however not so positive.

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Waz

I have plenty of experience in business I can assure you.

I have also mentioned before that many of my business friends and colleagues; some who hold senior positions within companies do not share your pessimistic views on the future of the U.K. with regards to trade. Challenging yes, but that has always been the case. Opportunities are many for those who are willing to take it. Those who blindly focus everything on the EU, are unwilling or slow to adapt will be hit hardest. There is good evidence of plenty of trade deals being completed, deals being negotiated and alliances formed.

Covid 19 has had a heavy impact on all trading nations but I am confident the U.K. in time will bounce back.
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waz-24-7 wrote:
Fri 12 Feb 2021 8:32 pm
It remains deeply concerning that some take the view that the EU is now or indeed has been for some time the enemy.
I was deeply concerned that the EU over many years proved itself not to be a friend.
A friend can often do you more damage than a friend because you trust a friend whereas your guard is up with an enemy.

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waz-24-7 wrote:
Sat 13 Feb 2021 12:13 am


The true picture will emerge as the ONS declare export and GDP figures.
Rest assured, if the figures are good and reflect your positivity. I will be out front to congratulate our Government. Signs are however not so positive.
I can tell you now that the figures aren't going to be good. They won't be good anywhere
And the signs aren't positive because....
Give me a C.....

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PoshinDevon wrote:
Sat 13 Feb 2021 8:27 am
Waz

I have plenty of experience in business I can assure you.

I have also mentioned before that many of my business friends and colleagues; some who hold senior positions within companies do not share your pessimistic views on the future of the U.K. with regards to trade. Challenging yes, but that has always been the case. Opportunities are many for those who are willing to take it. Those who blindly focus everything on the EU, are unwilling or slow to adapt will be hit hardest. There is good evidence of plenty of trade deals being completed, deals being negotiated and alliances formed.

Covid 19 has had a heavy impact on all trading nations but I am confident the U.K. in time will bounce back.
Posh, I accept your assurance upon business experience.
Surely you therefore recognise the importance of customers, developing long term customer relationships without unnecessary interference. To be forced into a position where you have to charge more, potentially lower the level of service and insist they now join you in customs and tax administrations are difficulties without benefit. All this whilst you also go out globally and find new customers too.
I am not pessimistic upon my own position or indeed many businesses as I feel I have the situation covered. It is generally known that many industries are now more aware and smelling the coffee. I struggle to accept why these businesses should share your optimism. Can our government step up and make it good.?
Those businesses ( as you indicate) who blindly go forth and are unwilling to adapt after the prosperity they had 4 years ago will be hit hard. What have they done to deserve this? Possibly nothing except tick the remain box so that many can smugly blame them for not adapting to the situation they had no option but to accept.. Government must take responsibility and act.

It is very widely know that in general business leaders across the globe are amazed at the UK decision to go it alone. The poor grasp by most upon global economics, trade and business led to the Brexit brigade marketing the more simple approach. Invasion by Turkish immigrants. Loads more money for the NHS. close our borders stop the undesirable immigrants taking UK jobs. The strategy worked of course. The then Government failures and complacency upon remain are now abundantly clear.
Last edited by waz-24-7 on Sat 13 Feb 2021 12:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Sat 13 Feb 2021 11:16 am
waz-24-7 wrote:
Fri 12 Feb 2021 8:32 pm
It remains deeply concerning that some take the view that the EU is now or indeed has been for some time the enemy.
I was deeply concerned that the EU over many years proved itself not to be a friend.
A friend can often do you more damage than a friend because you trust a friend whereas your guard is up with an enemy.
OMG!
We should therefore go out seeking global trade and be very careful indeed. I do hope we can find some "better" friends that tick all your boxes.
After all if we can find these "good and better friends" they will surely help us pay the bills and provide prosperity.
If they should want to visit us of course we could check their friendliness scores on passports.

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Posh,
quote: There is good evidence of plenty of trade deals being completed, deals being negotiated and alliances formed.

these deals not only have to be negotiated and completed, they also needs to be controlled.
on every point of entry it will be a bureaucratic mess and this will cost the UK a fortune.
besides, with "whom else" (as the EU roll out deals already made), the UK wants to do "deal"?
ok, canada. but to whose advantage?
with the US? forget it, it will cost you the agriculture sector and the NHS, both sacrosanct.
maybe, it will be the end of your financial services on top.

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Sat 13 Feb 2021 11:16 am
waz-24-7 wrote:
Fri 12 Feb 2021 8:32 pm
It remains deeply concerning that some take the view that the EU is now or indeed has been for some time the enemy.
I was deeply concerned that the EU over many years proved itself not to be a friend.
.......
well, yes. the one against 27, the lonely fighter for freedom and sovereignty, rather dead than slave, eh?
while the other 27 are just shaking heads, as they can not understand that a single country wants to cherry pick all the time, complaint that all the other 27 not necessarily share all of the UK views although a lot has been done to please the UK.
see, eg: financial services!
who is a friend in this vast and wild world? the US? China?, your "old colonies"?
well, some countries have no good memories/opinions about the UK! rather dead than slave, is still their opinion...
not easy to do deals with them... but i am sure there are enough "dictators" , the lot, or some "in need", who will made it possible for UK banks to open a branch for obscure financial services.
in return then they can export some CE mark free, "no-one really needs it" stuff to the UK tax free.

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kibsolar1999 wrote:
Sat 13 Feb 2021 1:09 pm

well, some countries have no good memories/opinions about the UK! rather dead than slave, is still their opinion...
I find it very surprising that people keep going on about the UKs role in slavery.
How many years is it now?
Did they try and make amends?
To hold every Britain now who had zero to do with slavery makes as much logic as blaming every Muslim for an Islamist terror attack or German for the Holocaust.
The thing with history is you can't change it so it serves no real purpose to get bitter about it unless you have a need to blame something that happened 200 years ago on how you are coping today.

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waz-24-7 wrote:
Sat 13 Feb 2021 11:44 am

they will surely help us pay the bills and provide prosperity.
They helped us pay the bills by handing us a very large annual bill?

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kibsolar1999 wrote:
Sat 13 Feb 2021 1:09 pm

while the other 27 are just shaking heads, as they can not understand that a single country wants to cherry pick all the time, complaint that all the other 27 not necessarily share all of the UK views although a lot has been done to please the UK.
TBH I think 16 of them are just wondering whether they send their bill to the same address and the others are wondering how much of the increased bill they have to cover

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EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Sat 13 Feb 2021 2:44 pm
kibsolar1999 wrote:
Sat 13 Feb 2021 1:09 pm

while the other 27 are just shaking heads, as they can not understand that a single country wants to cherry pick all the time, complaint that all the other 27 not necessarily share all of the UK views although a lot has been done to please the UK.
TBH I think 16 of them are just wondering whether they send their bill to the same address and the others are wondering how much of the increased bill they have to cover
ETS
I really am confused why you keep finding some sort of "good" reason why we left. Your continued attacks on anything EU is not really of importance now as we are no longer members. Perhaps, after leaving, you need to pacify and explain to yourself the lack of real positive results as well as the clear losses that are already emerging.

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It was over 40 years ago that the U.K. joined the Common Market . The U.K. following a referendum voted to leave the European Union. I think that it is only reasonable and fair to give the U.K. more than 40 days to see if the deal with the EU and many other world wide trade deals will work or not.

Or are some on here going to moan for the next 40 years.
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waz-24-7 wrote:
Sat 13 Feb 2021 2:57 pm

I really am confused why you keep finding some sort of "good" reason why we left. Your continued attacks on anything EU is not really of importance now as we are no longer members. Perhaps, after leaving, you need to pacify and explain to yourself the lack of real positive results as well as the clear losses that are already emerging.
Has there been a lack of positive results so far, In 7 weeks? I know you are desperate to find them.
We are out and to me the subject is done tbh.
The advantages of leaving will become clear in years to come when we find we have body swerved the ongoing further unification without a vote

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PoshinDevon wrote:
Sat 13 Feb 2021 3:34 pm
It was over 40 years ago that the U.K. joined the European Common Market . The U.K. following a referendum voted to leave the European Union. I think that it is only reasonable and fair to give the U.K. more than 40 days to see if the deal with the EU and many other world wide trade deals will work or not.

Or are some on here going to moan for the next 40 years.
Hmm
40 days, even 40 seconds, in the fast moving world of trade and business is an eternity. Your notion that new trade deals are the route to recovery and onward prosperity are at this moment un substantiated. We want and need trade now. Trade without barriers.
Furthermore the vote to leave the EU was not an economic one. It was sold and lapped up as a "take back control" .That ticket may be allowed the 40 days . The economic numbers are not adding up right now. Economic losses are being reported and gains are clearly none. Is this fair to the businesses and people being negatively effected ? In your book possibly. In mine absolutely not.

This is not moaning this is facing reality and what will the UK government be doing to make it better?

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The vote to leave the eu was never based on economics.

This is something the remain side could never comprehend - hence the doubling down of project fear.

It was, is and always will be about freedom for your country to do as its people mandates.

We as as country may take strides forwards or backwards over the coming years but they are our gains and losses - and we will benefit from gains and learn from losses.


I am proud of my country's past and optimistic of its future.

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Hedge-fund wrote:
Sat 13 Feb 2021 11:47 pm
The vote to leave the eu was never based on economics.

This is something the remain side could never comprehend - hence the doubling down of project fear.

It was, is and always will be about freedom for your country to do as its people mandates.

We as as country may take strides forwards or backwards over the coming years but they are our gains and losses - and we will benefit from gains and learn from losses.


I am proud of my country's past and optimistic of its future.
A great post!
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Hedge-fund wrote:
Sat 13 Feb 2021 11:47 pm
The vote to leave the eu was never based on economics.

This is something the remain side could never comprehend - hence the doubling down of project fear.

It was, is and always will be about freedom for your country to do as its people mandates.

We as as country may take strides forwards or backwards over the coming years but they are our gains and losses - and we will benefit from gains and learn from losses.


I am proud of my country's past and optimistic of its future.
"The vote to leave the eu was never based on economics."

Yes, And I believe that was wrong.
It was made (possibly not sufficiently))clear that economic damage would be one of the costs.

Of course many, (possibly like yourself ) older and not relying on work for income ,took the nationalistic position that clearly you and Posh take.

That position is taken at the cost of those younger and working people that will be damaged by economic loss. Is it acceptable that this section of UK society accept loss so that some can enjoy this new freedom that you strive for?
It is quite preposterous that somehow you think people that did not follow your vote are not proud of the UK or wish for prosperity.
You should be aware that I share that position at least
I'm afraid your notion of freedom in the modern world is old hat particularly with regard to economics, trade and prosperity.
In addition and given your nationalistic freedom viewpoint. Did the British domination over the colonial empire not totally take away those countries freedoms. Were these enslaved colonies not entitled to their freedom. I suppose that doesn't count as it was a long time ago.

Freedom is of course important. To enjoy freedom you must also hope for peace unity and co operation. Something that has been in Europe since the last two great wars when Europe was divided and nationalistic.

Yes freedom together with Peace and prosperity must go hand in hand. Any break up of the Union of peace that I call the EU is a threat upon that aspiration. I detect a clear movement backwards towards the nationalistic 1914-45 years. The UK is intrinsically liked to Europe and your inward looking focus is misplaced. Even the UK now appears to be under threat of break up. That is disturbing to me.

,

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waz-24-7 wrote:
Sun 14 Feb 2021 1:08 am
Yes, And I believe that was wrong.
It was made (possibly not sufficiently))clear that economic damage would be one of the costs.
My view was and still is that since the UK has been in the EU the average EU countries have not performed as well as countries outside the EU. So it’s very nice to play in a team but we weren’t in a particularly good one. As for the economic outcomes of leaving the EU, I do believe that The Remainers mentioned it once or twice (!) but people didn’t buy into project fear and valued democracy.
waz-24-7 wrote:
Sun 14 Feb 2021 1:08 am

Of course many, (possibly like yourself ) older and not relying on work for income ,took the nationalistic position that clearly you and Posh take.
That position is taken at the cost of those younger and working people that will be damaged by economic loss. Is it acceptable that this section of UK society accept loss so that some can enjoy this new freedom that you strive for?
Everything you have written on Brexit makes me think that you would vote to be taken over by Martians if it helped your business so I wouldn’t play the leavers are selfish card.
waz-24-7 wrote:
Sun 14 Feb 2021 1:08 am

It is quite preposterous that somehow you think people that did not follow your vote are not proud of the UK or wish for prosperity.
You should be aware that I share that position at least
You glory in every bit of bad news that Britain gets. If there is good news you grudgingly acknowledge it and say but wait until….
waz-24-7 wrote:
Sun 14 Feb 2021 1:08 am
I'm afraid your notion of freedom in the modern world is old hat particularly with regard to economics, trade and prosperity.
As I said I’m not convinced the EU are that great at business given they have been outperformed for the last 40 years. With regard to freedom, you do realise that you can always trade freedom for prosperity. Many French café owners earned fortunes serving Nazis. In fact the French resistance pretty much solely consisted of taking a German officer a latte instead of a cappuccino. I am sure that there are black South Africans that are not doing as well since apartheid has ended as they were under it. I think apartheid is a disgusting system but do not that under it more black Africans were trying to enter South Africa than leave it. I can only assume they were willing to trade some freedom for prosperity.
waz-24-7 wrote:
Sun 14 Feb 2021 1:08 am
In addition and given your nationalistic freedom viewpoint. Did the British domination over the colonial empire not totally take away those countries freedoms. Were these enslaved colonies not entitled to their freedom. I suppose that doesn't count as it was a long time ago.
Given the political landscape of EU countries I wouldn’t play the UK riddled by fascists card too much myself. The rise of far right parties in the EU is solely down to countries identities being removed by stealth.
As for the old British Empire shtick. The UK was often invaded before we started taking to the oceans. That’s what countries back then did. They took to the seas and explored and took advantage of weaker countries. We were not alone in this, The Romans, Vikings, Normans, Germans, Belgians, Portuguese, Spanish, French, Dutch, French etc etc all fought and colonised countries to empire build. Sometimes countries fought each other to see who would colonise a third party. Britain was very good at this and ended many countries glory days or took the best prizes. This is what often causes resentment. “Yes nice Armada, what did it last 15 minutes?”
Funnily that resentment often isn’t from the peoples still living in the countries we colonised. In my experience they have no problem and have moved on. You’ll often get people who have made a conscious decision to move to the UK and make it their life’s mission to criticise the UK, which begs the question, why move there? It’s a big world out there, why move to somewhere you despise?
Britain often didn’t cover themselves in glory in colonised countries but who did? Many other colonising countries were far more vicious than us. The Belgiums in Africa? The Spanish in South America?
As to Britain’s history I am proud of some parts of it and uncomfortable with other parts of it. In general though I leave history where it should be, in the past.
waz-24-7 wrote:
Sun 14 Feb 2021 1:08 am
Freedom is of course important. To enjoy freedom you must also hope for peace unity and co operation. Something that has been in Europe since the last two great wars when Europe was divided and nationalistic.
Should Hitler have succeeded with his plans to dominate Europe you can guarantee than within 20 years that the countries united under his control would have been peaceful and co-operative. It would not have been practical for him to keep standing armies in full states of readiness in conquered countries.
waz-24-7 wrote:
Sun 14 Feb 2021 1:08 am
Any break up of the Union of peace that I call the EU is a threat upon that aspiration.
NATO bought peace to Europe you just give the EU credit for it.
waz-24-7 wrote:
Sun 14 Feb 2021 1:08 am
I detect a clear movement backwards towards the nationalistic 1914-45 years. The UK is intrinsically liked to Europe and your inward looking focus is misplaced. Even the UK now appears to be under threat of break up. That is disturbing to me.
Yes many people in Europe are disturbed that their countries are going to be absorbed into a super state without them being given the curtesy of a vote. Most reasonable balanced people can accept losing a vote but not the lack of a vote. Being part of Europe is not anymore conditional on the EU than me being a member of the BRS to live in the TRNC.

BTW I wouldn't reply with one of your hmmms.
That indicates that you have actually read and considered someone else's view which isn't the case is it?

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Do we assume that you and many others see Brexit as the beginning of the break up of the EU.
A return to pre war nationalistic countries all vying for influence power and domination is worrying.
Certainly this would be candy sweet for Russian aspirations to increase its influence and dominance.
Russian influence upon the Brexit vote has been proven. It suits their agenda.

Do you also now support the next level of isolationism which is UKEXIT. Russia certainly does.
Do you support referendums for Scotland and Wales ? Do you support Northern Ireland in their dis trust of Westminster in selling them and the GFA down the river.
Is a re unification of Ireland a referendum subject for consideration.?
UKEXIT is a follow on from Brexit. Scotland and possibly Wales will apply to join the EU.
Who knows what England will do as a very weak group of countries squabble for influence and survival as nationalistic stand alone entities.

This potential path was highlighted 4 years ago and most disregarded it. The division we see within the UK is like nothing before. The threat of loss is clear.
Pride in ones country is no bad thing. To watch it disintegrate after a poorly thought through decision is heartbreaking.

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waz-24-7 wrote:
Sun 14 Feb 2021 2:06 pm

Do we assume that you and many others see Brexit as the beginning of the break up of the EU.
That's up to countries in the EU. What is apparent is there are a lot of people who are not happy within the EU and the EU will fight tooth and nail to ensure they don't get to vote on their unhappiness,
waz-24-7 wrote:
Sun 14 Feb 2021 2:06 pm

A return to pre war nationalistic countries all vying for influence power and domination is worrying.
Because none of the members within the EU are vying for influence and power of course? I'd be interested in your definition of nationalistic? Is it fascist to want to be a nation rather than a province?
waz-24-7 wrote:
Sun 14 Feb 2021 2:06 pm

Certainly this would be candy sweet for Russian aspirations to increase its influence and dominance.
So any criticism of a country within the EU is a them and us nationalistic agenda, but any countries outside are fair game?
waz-24-7 wrote:
Sun 14 Feb 2021 2:06 pm

Russian influence upon the Brexit vote has been proven. It suits their agenda.
Likewise the US election etc etc?
None of this has been proven as to amounting to a hill of beans.
waz-24-7 wrote:
Sun 14 Feb 2021 2:06 pm

Do you also now support the next level of isolationism which is UKEXIT. Russia certainly does.
Do you support referendums for Scotland and Wales ? Do you support Northern Ireland in their dis trust of Westminster in selling them and the GFA down the river.
Is a re unification of Ireland a referendum subject for consideration.?
UKEXIT is a follow on from Brexit. Scotland and possibly Wales will apply to join the EU.
Who knows what England will do as a very weak group of countries squabble for influence and survival as nationalistic stand alone entities.
I'm sorry to disappoint you that your hope of a break up of the Union will not happen.

I love the way you join totally unconnected things together.
Do you believe in full employment?
Do you believe in green policies?
Do you believe that fox hunting should've been banned?
Do you wish to fully research the effects of smoking with a view to eliminating it?
If yes to any of the above congratulations you are a believer in Hitler's policies. So I can only assume that must be an across the board agreement?
waz-24-7 wrote:
Sun 14 Feb 2021 2:06 pm

This potential path was highlighted 4 years ago and most disregarded it. The division we see within the UK is like nothing before. The threat of loss is clear.
Pride in ones country is no bad thing. To watch it disintegrate after a poorly thought through decision is heartbreaking.
Most disregarded it because they didn't believe it because they can spot propaganda.
Maybe some now voice their opinions because after Brexit they feel that maybe their voice might be heard?
I guess suppressing opinions that are not yours are democratic?

I'm sure you would rather countries simply disappear into regions.

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waz-24-7 wrote:
Sun 14 Feb 2021 1:08 am

"The vote to leave the eu was never based on economics."

Yes, And I believe that was wrong.
It was made (possibly not sufficiently))clear that economic damage would be one of the costs.
Personally I actually think that long term economic prosperity is not best served by the UK being a member of the EU but to put economic prosperity as the only reason whether to keep with a system would be a good reason to keep slavery.
Cheap/free workforce.
Adaptable to your current needs as in if you were totally ruthless you can increase or decrease the numbers as needs dictate.
The Deep South in America has never been as affluent since slavery was abolished

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Post by waz-24-7 »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Sun 14 Feb 2021 3:40 pm
waz-24-7 wrote:
Sun 14 Feb 2021 1:08 am

"The vote to leave the eu was never based on economics."

Yes, And I believe that was wrong.
It was made (possibly not sufficiently))clear that economic damage would be one of the costs.
Personally I actually think that long term economic prosperity is not best served by the UK being a member of the EU but to put economic prosperity as the only reason whether to keep with a system would be a good reason to keep slavery.
Cheap/free workforce.
Adaptable to your current needs as in if you were totally ruthless you can increase or decrease the numbers as needs dictate.
The Deep South in America has never been as affluent since slavery was abolished
For the British isles to be within a union whether the United Kingdom or the European Union presents far better opportunities to trade and prosper.
Economic reasons are certainly not the only benefit.The freedoms and privileges that come with club membership are significant losses when you leave.
De centralised governments within the UK are not, in my opinion, proving beneficial. Certainly Brussels as a centralised administration is in need of reform also.
If the UK can prosper outside of the Union then that is great. If the EU breaks up then European trade will become more fragmented and disjointed.
Standards , quality assurance and prices will be a free for all.

I don't think slavery is a particularly good reference as it wqs outlawed many years ago and will not re emerge to any great extent.

EnjoyingTheSun
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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

waz-24-7 wrote:
Sun 14 Feb 2021 4:02 pm

I don't think slavery is a particularly good reference as it wqs outlawed many years ago and will not re emerge to any great extent.
You totally missed the point but hey what’s new?

As for slavery not going to re-emerge, finger on the pulse as usual. There are around 20-30 million people who will be thrilled to hear that and 94 countries that will be surprised to know it was outlawed years ago.
You do know there is a world beyond Brussels right, maybe as a self confessed non-isolationist you might want to open your eyes a bit?

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