The Brexit effect

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The Brexit effect

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Post by waddo »

I have noticed on the UK news of late that there are a lot of people waking up to the effects of Brexit on their purchases. Was I the only one in the World who saw this coming or am I biased because I did not vote to leave the EU?

Before I become accused of yet another "Project Fear" thread can I ask all those who did vote to leave, did you all see this coming and is that why you wanted to leave the EU or was it just that you wanted to have control of your country again?
No matter how hard the past, you can always begin again.

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by jimm »

Yes I saw it coming but just get over it, remainers lost

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by TAC »

No project fear here for that news.
I can count on one hand how many times I have brought from the EU in the last ten years.
China now that's different brought loads of items that I am in no rush to have.
This wont affect the average person in the uk
Buy British sod the uk My Two Cents
I'm leaving now to go find myself....if I arrive before I get back, please ask me to wait!

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Post by thornaby »

Ridiculously early for any one to make a judgement about the so called Brexit effect but I do think that the remoaners will take absolute delight in any negative effect and will totally ignore any positive effect. Whatever the short time negative consequences of leaving, for me it will be well worth it and I will say again, three cheers for Brexit!

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by Walesforever »

The Brexit effect so far.... Britain has vaccinated more people than the whole of the EU put together!!!

Am I glad I voted leave ABSOLUTELY 100%. If we were still in the EU we would have vaccinated less than 1.6 million to date instead of the almost 7 million we currently have.
This morning the EU are using bullying tactics blackmailing the vaccine companies threat hinge to block any exports from their Belgium plants because the EU is way behind.
Yesterday Austria accused the EU of taking too long to place orders in the early stages.

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Post by Kanonier »

waddo wrote:
Tue 26 Jan 2021 7:41 am
or was it just that you wanted to have control of your country again?
That will be a yes from me.

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by waddo »

jimm, Never fear, I got over IT years ago, when I saw the Government turn an "opinion" from the people into a law, I saw the writing on the wall. The UK got whatever it deserved and I am happy for it, I honestly hope it turns out exactly as they thought it would.

TAC, quite agree, I have rarely bought from the EU, however, I do buy from the USA - shipped via the UK because of the USA's reluctance to ship to a Turkish address - yet now find that a product I have purchased many times over the years is now banned from the UK as it is "Dangerous Goods/Prohibited Item", that since UK left the EU?

thornaby, I hope you are right with the "Short Term" comment but I still have "Three Fears for Brexit" - time will tell. I also have no doubt that the Brexiters will also make much out of anything, however small, they can of any success.

Walesforever, good for the Britain, well ahead in the vaccination game, a little over 10% of the whole Nation vaccinated!

Kanonier, Good for you.

No arguments here, just interest and fed up with Covid! Stay safe out there.
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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by Hedge-fund »

waddo wrote:
Tue 26 Jan 2021 7:41 am
I have noticed on the UK news of late that there are a lot of people waking up to the effects of Brexit on their purchases. Was I the only one in the World who saw this coming or am I biased because I did not vote to leave the EU?

Before I become accused of yet another "Project Fear" thread can I ask all those who did vote to leave, did you all see this coming and is that why you wanted to leave the EU or was it just that you wanted to have control of your country again?
Hard to answer a non specific question.

What news?
What lots of people?
What effects on what purchases?


As far as the Brexit Effect on the 1st major test of the post Brexit period - here's rabid remainer Peston's devasting view on twitter this morning....


'The important difference between AstraZeneca's relationship with the UK and with the EU, and the reason it has fallen behind schedule on 50m vaccine doses promised to the EU, is that the UK agreed the deal with AZ a full three months before the EU did - which gave

AZ an extra three months to sort out manufacturing and supply problems relating to the UK contract (there were plenty of problems). Here is the important timeline. In May AZ reached agreement with Oxford and the UK government to make and supply the vaccine. In fact Oxford...

had already started work on the supply chain. The following month AZ reached a preliminary agreement with Germany, the Netherlands, France and Italy, a group known as the Inclusive Vaccine Alliance, based on the agreement with the UK. The announcement was 13 June. BUT the EU

insisted that the Inclusive Vaccine Alliance could not formalise the deal. The European Commission insisted it should take over the contract negotiations on behalf of the whole EU. So were another two months of talks and the contract was not signed till the end of August...

What is frustrating for AZ is that the extra talks with the European Commission led to no material changes to the contract, but wasted time on making arrangements to make the vaccine with partner sites. The yield at these partner sites has been lower than expected. The problem..
is in the course of being sorted. AZ say it is working 24/7 to make up the time and deliver the quantities the EU wanted. It says its contract with the EU - as with the UK - was always on a "best effort" basis, because it was starting from scratch to deliver unprecedented...
amounts for no profit. AZ is not blaming the EU. But it does not understand why it is being painted as the "bad guy" given that if the deal had happened in June, when Germany, the Netherlands, France and Italy wanted it done, most of these supply issues would already...
have been sorted. A pro-EU source at the company says "I understand Brexit better now".

PS According to AZ, the EU claim that it pays less to AZ per dose, and that is why AZ "works harder for the UK than for the EU", is "completely incorrect". It charges the same price to all buyers, wherever they are in the world, subject to small adjustments due to local costs'


https://twitter.com/Peston/status/13540 ... 16225?s=20

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by Mowgli597 »

Somewhat worrying. Hopefully nothing.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0126/1192035-covid-19-vaccine/

AstraZeneca rejects 'incorrect' reports on Covid-19 jab efficacy in elderly

Pharma giant AstraZeneca has defended the efficacy of its Covid-19 vaccine after media reports said the German government had doubts about its effectiveness among those over 65.

The Handelsblatt economic daily reported yesterday that Berlin had estimated the efficacy of the jab among over-65s was just 8%, citing sources.

Bild also said that Berlin did not expect the vaccine, which was developed with Oxford University and set to get the green light from the EU this week, would receive a licence for use in the elderly.

It quoted an efficacy rate of "less than 10%".

But the company rejected the claims as erroneous.

"Reports that the AstraZeneca/Oxford vaccine efficacy is as low as 8% in adults over 65 years are completely incorrect," the firm said in a statement late last night.

"In November, we published data in The Lancet demonstrating that older adults showed strong immune responses to the vaccine, with 100% of older adults generating spike-specific antibodies after the second dose," it added.

Germany's health ministry said it "appears that two things have been mixed up in the reports".

"Around 8% of the volunteers in AstraZeneca's efficacy studies were around 56 and 69 years old and 3-4% are above 70 years old," said the ministry.

"However, this does not mean that it is effective only in 8% of older people," it added.

The health ministry added that European regulator EMA will evaluate the effectiveness of the vaccine.

"It has been known since the autumn that fewer older people were involved in AstraZeneca's first studies than in other manufacturers'," it said.

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by Walesforever »

Walesforever, good for the Britain, well ahead in the vaccination game, a little over 10% of the whole Nation vaccinated!

As opposed to what percent of the entire EU?

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by Kanonier »

waddo wrote:
Tue 26 Jan 2021 12:44 pm







Kanonier, Good for you.
Thank's for the confirmation, I knew I made the right decision.

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Post by Brazen »

Walesforever wrote:
Tue 26 Jan 2021 1:44 pm
Walesforever, good for the Britain, well ahead in the vaccination game, a little over 10% of the whole Nation vaccinated!

As opposed to what percent of the entire EU?
About 2% I believe.

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

Sure some things from the EU were going to be more expensive. Some things from the rest of the world can be cheaper if we don't pile tariffs on them. The EU protects the markets of it's members by putting tariffs on cheaper goods from abroad or their other trick is regulation.
Now we can shop around and as someone said buy British.
There is some great produce from EU countries but much we could grow or produce in Britain.
If you find you can't buy say Brie you'll find there are lots of British cheeses that are great some of them very much like Brie.
Sure we can't grow coffee but we don't buy that from the EU anyway.
That's the thing when you attempt to mainly trade with your neighbours, you tend to find that what they are growing in their allotment is pretty much the same as what you can grow in yours.

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by Hedge-fund »

Mowgli597 wrote:
Tue 26 Jan 2021 1:39 pm
Somewhat worrying. Hopefully nothing.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0126/1192035-covid-19-vaccine/

AstraZeneca rejects 'incorrect' reports on Covid-19 jab efficacy in elderly

Pharma giant AstraZeneca has defended the efficacy of its Covid-19 vaccine after media reports said the German government had doubts about its effectiveness among those over 65.

The Handelsblatt economic daily reported yesterday that Berlin had estimated the efficacy of the jab among over-65s was just 8%, citing sources.

Bild also said that Berlin did not expect the vaccine, which was developed with Oxford University and set to get the green light from the EU this week, would receive a licence for use in the elderly.

It quoted an efficacy rate of "less than 10%".

But the company rejected the claims as erroneous.

"Reports that the AstraZeneca/Oxford vaccine efficacy is as low as 8% in adults over 65 years are completely incorrect," the firm said in a statement late last night.

"In November, we published data in The Lancet demonstrating that older adults showed strong immune responses to the vaccine, with 100% of older adults generating spike-specific antibodies after the second dose," it added.

Germany's health ministry said it "appears that two things have been mixed up in the reports".

"Around 8% of the volunteers in AstraZeneca's efficacy studies were around 56 and 69 years old and 3-4% are above 70 years old," said the ministry.

"However, this does not mean that it is effective only in 8% of older people," it added.

The health ministry added that European regulator EMA will evaluate the effectiveness of the vaccine.

"It has been known since the autumn that fewer older people were involved in AstraZeneca's first studies than in other manufacturers'," it said.

How is that worrying?

People trying to rubbish the vaccine made a mistake and have accepted they made a mistake.

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

Hedge-fund wrote:
Tue 26 Jan 2021 3:12 pm

How is that worrying?

People trying to rubbish the vaccine made a mistake and have accepted they made a mistake.
I was accused of scaremongering for pointing out the controversial fact that undoubtedly the different vaccines would have different outcomes/results/efficiency.

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by kibsolar1999 »

Walesforever wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Jan 2021 1:44 pm
Walesforever, good for the Britain, well ahead in the vaccination game, a little over 10% of the whole Nation vaccinated!
As opposed to what percent of the entire EU?
About 2% I believe.

.....and if the EU countries would not "hold back" the second dose to be inoculated in timescale given from manufacturers....it would be 4% (?) (of biontech/ moderna only).

you should not be "too proud" of your vaccination program... the wave could be still quicker as the vaccine works, eg with one shot only....
and if Astra does not work properly in the elderly or, eg, with the brasilian variant.. you can throw the vaccine directly into the dustbin.
you do not know whats coming...
"the game" is not a game, its a battle. a battle against the virus. and it is bigger as a couple of million doses here or there and bigger as brexit.

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Post by Hedge-fund »

As a race - the human race - we are all in this together.

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Post by Walesforever »

Kib solar

I’m extremely proud of the UKs vaccination program. Why wouldn’t I be? In the next 2 weeks we hope to have vaccinated 15 million people!!
We have also managed to buy and produce our own vaccine.
Most countries in the world would swap places in a heartbeat. Excluding Israel show me a better vaccine program in the world.

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

Walesforever wrote:
Tue 26 Jan 2021 4:22 pm

Excluding Israel show me a better vaccine program in the world.
You should remember that Israel joins America and Britain in the bad nation category!
In fact now Biden is in I would imagine Israel will move up a place as America go down in the chart

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Post by PoshinDevon »

I am currently volunteering at the Exeter Mass Vaccination Centre working alongside the NHS and other agencies.

I cannot fail to be impressed by the fantastic organisation and the way people in the U.K. have stepped up to roll out the vaccine with great speed.

Everyone I have spoken to who are coming in for their vaccine are pleased and impressed with the way the U.K. has handled this programme. Whatever else people may think there is no doubt the U.K. is leading the way in vaccinating it’s population.
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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

With regard to AstraZeneca and the EU Robert Peston posted this on Twitter

"The important difference between AstraZeneca's relationship with the UK and with the EU, and the reason it has fallen behind schedule on 50m vaccine doses promised to the EU, is that the UK agreed the deal with AZ a full three months before the EU did - which gave AZ an extra three months to sort out manufacturing and supply problems relating to the UK contract (there were plenty of problems). Here is the important timeline. In May AZ reached agreement with Oxford and the UK government to make and supply the vaccine. In fact Oxford had already started work on the supply chain. The following month AZ reached a preliminary agreement with Germany, the Netherlands, France and Italy, a group known as the Inclusive Vaccine Alliance, based on the agreement with the UK. The announcement was 13 June. BUT the EU insisted that the Inclusive Vaccine Alliance could not formalise the deal. The European Commission insisted it should take over the contract negotiations on behalf of the whole EU. So were another two months of talks and the contract was not signed till the end of August.
What is frustrating for AZ is that the extra talks with the European Commission led to no material changes to the contract, but wasted time on making arrangements to make the vaccine with partner sites. The yield at these partner sites has been lower than expected. The problem is in the course of being sorted.
AZ say it is working 24/7 to make up the time and deliver the quantities the EU wanted. It says its contract with the EU - as with the UK - was always on a "best effort" basis, because it was starting from scratch to deliver unprecedented amounts for no profit. AZ is not blaming the EU. But it does not understand why it is being painted as the "bad guy" given that if the deal had happened in June, when Germany, the Netherlands, France and Italy wanted it done, most of these supply issues would already have been sorted. A pro-EU source at the company says "I understand Brexit better now".

PS According to AZ, the EU claim that it pays less to AZ per dose, and that is why AZ "works harder for the UK than for the EU", is "completely incorrect". It charges the same price to all buyers, wherever they are in the world, subject to small adjustments due to local costs."

I don't know how true it is but it certainly rings true particularly the bit that AZ reaching a preliminary agreement with Germany, the Netherlands, France and Italy only for the EU to insist that it should take over the contract negotiations on behalf of the whole EU so creating another two months of talks which led to no material changes to the contract.
Whenever you add another step it takes more time and the EU isn't known for the speed of their negotiations. Bureaucrats are bureaucrats and like a hammer will see everything as a nail.

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by Groucho »

TAC wrote:
Tue 26 Jan 2021 11:23 am
Buy British sod the uk My Two Cents
Did you mean this?

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Post by waz-24-7 »

It is quite concerning that the vaccination and death numbers within the UK has become a matter of Brexit debate. at least on this forum. Certainly the handling of any Pandemic was not on the Brexit campaign agenda. It would be now definitely. Vote Brexit to ensure you don't die of COVID !!
I can see the red bus now.

After Covid it is the focus upon how the UK will recover that is critical.. It really does not matter now how the EU performs and deals with Covid. ,Its about maintaining the EU as an ongoing customer. Minimising the damage to the UK economy. Securing customers and competing for business. This to me has always been the biggest challenge tho there are many others after Brexit. Believe me. Trading with buying from and importing from the EU has got more difficult, time consuming and expensive.

The immediate losses are emerging, including people buying on line and now paying additional duties on goods. I saw a lady charged an additional £40 duty upon a coat from Italy. Sorry its like only a few really understood the cost of Brexit. The so called freedoms we apparently have come at a cost. Too mush cost. Too much loss. Too little gain.

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by Hedge-fund »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Tue 26 Jan 2021 6:22 pm
With regard to AstraZeneca and the EU Robert Peston posted this on Twitter

"The important difference between AstraZeneca's relationship with the UK and with the EU, and the reason it has fallen behind schedule on 50m vaccine doses promised to the EU, is that the UK agreed the deal with AZ a full three months before the EU did - which gave AZ an extra three months to sort out manufacturing and supply problems relating to the UK contract (there were plenty of problems). Here is the important timeline. In May AZ reached agreement with Oxford and the UK government to make and supply the vaccine. In fact Oxford had already started work on the supply chain. The following month AZ reached a preliminary agreement with Germany, the Netherlands, France and Italy, a group known as the Inclusive Vaccine Alliance, based on the agreement with the UK. The announcement was 13 June. BUT the EU insisted that the Inclusive Vaccine Alliance could not formalise the deal. The European Commission insisted it should take over the contract negotiations on behalf of the whole EU. So were another two months of talks and the contract was not signed till the end of August.
What is frustrating for AZ is that the extra talks with the European Commission led to no material changes to the contract, but wasted time on making arrangements to make the vaccine with partner sites. The yield at these partner sites has been lower than expected. The problem is in the course of being sorted.
AZ say it is working 24/7 to make up the time and deliver the quantities the EU wanted. It says its contract with the EU - as with the UK - was always on a "best effort" basis, because it was starting from scratch to deliver unprecedented amounts for no profit. AZ is not blaming the EU. But it does not understand why it is being painted as the "bad guy" given that if the deal had happened in June, when Germany, the Netherlands, France and Italy wanted it done, most of these supply issues would already have been sorted. A pro-EU source at the company says "I understand Brexit better now".

PS According to AZ, the EU claim that it pays less to AZ per dose, and that is why AZ "works harder for the UK than for the EU", is "completely incorrect". It charges the same price to all buyers, wherever they are in the world, subject to small adjustments due to local costs."

I don't know how true it is but it certainly rings true particularly the bit that AZ reaching a preliminary agreement with Germany, the Netherlands, France and Italy only for the EU to insist that it should take over the contract negotiations on behalf of the whole EU so creating another two months of talks which led to no material changes to the contract.
Whenever you add another step it takes more time and the EU isn't known for the speed of their negotiations. Bureaucrats are bureaucrats and like a hammer will see everything as a nail.
You missed post 8 on this thread?

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by Hedge-fund »

waz-24-7 wrote:
Tue 26 Jan 2021 8:11 pm
It is quite concerning that the vaccination and death numbers within the UK has become a matter of Brexit debate. at least on this forum. Certainly the handling of any Pandemic was not on the Brexit campaign agenda. It would be now definitely. Vote Brexit to ensure you don't die of COVID !!
I can see the red bus now.

After Covid it is the focus upon how the UK will recover that is critical.. It really does not matter now how the EU performs and deals with Covid. ,Its about maintaining the EU as an ongoing customer. Minimising the damage to the UK economy. Securing customers and competing for business. This to me has always been the biggest challenge tho there are many others after Brexit. Believe me. Trading with buying from and importing from the EU has got more difficult, time consuming and expensive.

The immediate losses are emerging, including people buying on line and now paying additional duties on goods. I saw a lady charged an additional £40 duty upon a coat from Italy. Sorry its like only a few really understood the cost of Brexit. The so called freedoms we apparently have come at a cost. Too mush cost. Too much loss. Too little gain.
The eu is finished. It's just a matter of when it falls apart.

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by PoshinDevon »

Waz

Provision of the vaccine is relevant to this topic. Just like buying fur coats or whatever, procurement of a vaccine is just that.... buying something we need.

Now had we had remained in the EU would we be in a better position with regards to vaccinating the U.K. population. Whilst we can all argue about the merits or not of any government in power, surely you must agree that the U.K. government has done an excellent job in rolling out the vaccination programme. Unlike our friends across the channel who have yet to authorise the Oxford/AZ vaccine.

Could it be there are layers of bureaucracy in place within the EU which has slowed down the decision making process?
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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by waz-24-7 »

PoshinDevon wrote:
Tue 26 Jan 2021 8:43 pm
Waz

Provision of the vaccine is relevant to this topic. Just like buying fur coats or whatever, procurement of a vaccine is just that.... buying something we need.

Now had we had remained in the EU would we be in a better position with regards to vaccinating the U.K. population. Whilst we can all argue about the merits or not of any government in power, surely you must agree that the U.K. government has done an excellent job in rolling out the vaccination programme. Unlike our friends across the channel who have yet to authorise the Oxford/AZ vaccine.

Could it be there are layers of bureaucracy in place within the EU which has slowed down the decision making process?
Posh
You may be right upon the bureaucracy point..
By the same token the death rate within the UK may be lower if we had been within the EU. Who knows? I will not contest the errors made within the EU. It is of little importance now. I will likewise not contest errors made by the UK government in failing to prevent the 100,000 deaths, the second largest in the World. The vaccination case for a Brexit is not one with merit.

I believe the UK would have pushed on regardless in or out. We were effectively still in the EU when the pandemic started.
My view is that the vaccination argument for supporting Brexit detracts from the bigger and more long term issues which I have highlighted previously.
There are layers within the EU that are not perfect or even good. The UK in is absence has no influence on changing the rules and laws of a Union that will only (in my view) eventually get stronger and powerful. Exclusion from this and its massive markets and buying power is a significant and long term loss.

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by Hedge-fund »

Screenshot_20210126-201746_Adblock Browser.jpg
Project fear first weaponised the vaccine topic and brexit

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

Hedge-fund wrote:
Tue 26 Jan 2021 8:35 pm

You missed post 8 on this thread?
I did, apologies. But always worth repeating eh? 😀

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

waz-24-7 wrote:
Tue 26 Jan 2021 8:11 pm
It is quite concerning that the vaccination and death numbers within the UK has become a matter of Brexit debate. at least on this forum.
Says the man who would turn his car not starting or the weather into being the fault of Brexit.
All that has been pointed out is that maybe just maybe the EU isn’t the cure of all ills and brings its own problems.
On every opportunity in the coming weeks, months and years anything negative that happens to the U.K. you will blame on us not being in the EU so on this one suck it up

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by waz-24-7 »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Tue 26 Jan 2021 9:47 pm
waz-24-7 wrote:
Tue 26 Jan 2021 8:11 pm
It is quite concerning that the vaccination and death numbers within the UK has become a matter of Brexit debate. at least on this forum.
Says the man who would turn his car not starting or the weather into being the fault of Brexit.
All that has been pointed out is that maybe just maybe the EU isn’t the cure of all ills and brings its own problems.
On every opportunity in the coming weeks, months and years anything negative that happens to the U.K. you will blame on us not being in the EU so on this one suck it up
I remain rather puzzled that Covid which by all intents ,will pass, is such an emotive Brexit topic. Perhaps the (Brexit) vaccine has been the saviour of UK society because if we were in the EU the pandemic t would have been far far worse. We will never know.

Of Course the EU is not perfect . I have never even suggested that.
I know of not a single perfect political administration. Do you?

And finally suck what up.? The UK death rate of only 100,000i would possibly be in the millions if we were stupid enough to still be in the EU.

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by Hedge-fund »

I love my country. I am proud of its past and am optimistic of its future.

I believe we are honest in counting our infection and death numbers. I believe a lot are not. I believe our high death rate is down to our nhs normally keeping older and vulnerable people alive for longer than other countries - this virus was a step too far for those groups.

We will prosper enormously outside a corrupt and bankrupt eu.

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by waz-24-7 »

Hedge-fund wrote:
Tue 26 Jan 2021 10:28 pm

I love my country. I am proud of its past and am optimistic of its future.

I believe we are honest in counting our infection and death numbers. I believe a lot are not. I believe our high death rate is down to our nhs normally keeping older and vulnerable people alive for longer than other countries - this virus was a step too far for those groups.

We will prosper enormously outside a corrupt and bankrupt EU
Me also regarding your first two paragraphs.

Upon the final line:
If the EU is bankrupt then certainly the UK would seek a new customer base tho that is extremely difficult and a decline in GDP would be inevitable.

However the credit rating of the EU is very good indeed and the trade we enjoyed with EU pays massively towards the prosperity seen pre Brexit.
The UK is and will remain in recession for some time. Of course Covid effect is massive and I accept that. Without Covid the economic damages would be getting a great deal more press and discussion. These damages and losses continue to emerge.

It is now time to get on with it regardless. I'm not afraid of that. It is the folly and difficulties thrust upon me that remain frustrating..

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

waz-24-7 wrote:
Tue 26 Jan 2021 10:58 pm
the trade we enjoyed with EU pays massively towards the prosperity seen pre Brexit.
The UK is and will remain in recession for some time.
I remember the IMF having to bail out Britain in 1976. Remind me when we joined the EU?

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by waz-24-7 »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Tue 26 Jan 2021 11:23 pm
waz-24-7 wrote:
Tue 26 Jan 2021 10:58 pm
the trade we enjoyed with EU pays massively towards the prosperity seen pre Brexit.
The UK is and will remain in recession for some time.
I remember the IMF having to bail out Britain in 1976. Remind me when we joined the EU?
I'm not sure why it appears so prevalent that some have a need to look backwards 40 yrs ago, as if its so important. Great Britain, commonwealth, British Empire, Rule Britannia. Important at one time but not so much in the new and modern world.
I'm not familiar with 1976 and have little interest in that era now that it has passed.
I remain focused on what is to come, how we will overcome current difficulties and what will happen in the future..

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

waz-24-7 wrote:
Tue 26 Jan 2021 11:41 pm

I'm not familiar with 1976 and have little interest in that era now that it has passed.
Translation that doesn’t fit my narrative so I will ignore it.
If the EU is the reason for any of the good that happened to the U.K. economically then why did we have to go cap in hand to the IMF after 3 years?
Or did it make very little difference until Thatcher sorted it out but as it happened while we were members we can give the EU the credit.

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by Walesforever »

Waz,

You only want to argue the UKs faults. You choose to ignore what we get right.

You say the EU isn’t broke when over half their members are on their knees.The likes of Greece,Portugal,Italy and even Ireland have all basically gone bankrupt over the past few years. ( it was the UK not the EU that bailed out Ireland).
As the 5th richest country in the World I’m confident that the UK can sustain itself outside the crooked EU. Maybe one question for the remoaners and the likes of yourself is..can the EU sustain itself without the massive amounts of funding that the UK was pouring into it?
BMW and VW biggest markets by far are the UK. A penny for their thoughts?

The first meaningful test post Brexit has been the vaccine programme and the UK is leading the World. The EU are still to even pass the Oxford vaccine!!!
Sometimes too much beurocracy makes Jack a dull boy!!!!

The UK spoke and the UK decided we wanted OUT. I’ve no doubt we won’t be the last Country to make that decision.

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

Walesforever wrote:
Wed 27 Jan 2021 12:43 pm

The UK spoke and the UK decided we wanted OUT. I’ve no doubt we won’t be the last Country to make that decision.
Which was a main factor in the EU's line on negotiations.
It's fair enough that if you leave a club you can't expect to enjoy all it's facilities but the problem for the EU was if the UK got too good a deal then countries would queue up to leave and get the same deal.

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by kibsolar1999 »

but the problem for the EU was if the UK got too good a deal then countries would queue up to leave and get the same deal.

Michel Barnier was not "the EU", he was sent from the EU commission as chief negotiator of the team for article 50, Didier Seeuws was appointed from the Council of the European Union = the remaining 27 EU countries /govs, incl those you have on your list to get "too good a deal/the same deal", which formulated the negotiation goals (and executed from the European commission) and Guy Verhofstad was appointed from the European parliament.
the final deal then needed approval from the EU commission, the Council of the European Union = the 27 govs, and the EU parliament = MPs which are all elected from people allover the 27 EU countries , incl those you have on your list to get "too good a deal/the same deal".

but you are right, in a way.. this deal showed all other 27 what is possible and what not and where they would stand if they would be not member in the EU, incl it reminded them why they decided to be a member...

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by Brazen »

waz-24-7 wrote:
Tue 26 Jan 2021 11:41 pm
EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Tue 26 Jan 2021 11:23 pm
waz-24-7 wrote:
Tue 26 Jan 2021 10:58 pm
the trade we enjoyed with EU pays massively towards the prosperity seen pre Brexit.
The UK is and will remain in recession for some time.
I remember the IMF having to bail out Britain in 1976. Remind me when we joined the EU?
I'm not sure why it appears so prevalent that some have a need to look backwards 40 yrs ago, as if its so important. Great Britain, commonwealth, British Empire, Rule Britannia. Important at one time but not so much in the new and modern world.
I'm not familiar with 1976 and have little interest in that era now that it has passed.
I remain focused on what is to come, how we will overcome current difficulties and what will happen in the future..
So why not channel all your efforts into making it work rather than continually whinging about the negatives. Is it because you really don’t want it to be a success?

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

kibsolar1999 wrote:
Wed 27 Jan 2021 1:46 pm

Michel Barnier was not "the EU"........
I think when charities negotiate for the Queen to cut a ribbon at an event they don't actually speak to her direct, "Lizzy are you free on Friday?"

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by Walesforever »

Only today the EU is DEMANDING that the UK manufacturing plants had over 60% of its stock to them.

Looks like Brexit was definitely the RIGHT choice for the UK.

The EU is is a right mess with the vaccine program. Only 1.9% vaccinated so far.

From the outside looking in it looks as if the EU are coming apart at the seams.

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by Brazen »

Walesforever wrote:
Wed 27 Jan 2021 6:42 pm
Only today the EU is DEMANDING that the UK manufacturing plants had over 60% of its stock to them.

Looks like Brexit was definitely the RIGHT choice for the UK.

The EU is is a right mess with the vaccine program. Only 1.9% vaccinated so far.

From the outside looking in it looks as if the EU are coming apart at the seams.
👍👍👍

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by waz-24-7 »

Walesforever wrote:
Wed 27 Jan 2021 12:43 pm
Waz,

You only want to argue the UKs faults. You choose to ignore what we get right.

You say the EU isn’t broke when over half their members are on their knees.The likes of Greece,Portugal,Italy and even Ireland have all basically gone bankrupt over the past few years. ( it was the UK not the EU that bailed out Ireland).
As the 5th richest country in the World I’m confident that the UK can sustain itself outside the crooked EU. Maybe one question for the remoaners and the likes of yourself is..can the EU sustain itself without the massive amounts of funding that the UK was pouring into it?
BMW and VW biggest markets by far are the UK. A penny for their thoughts?

The first meaningful test post Brexit has been the vaccine programme and the UK is leading the World. The EU are still to even pass the Oxford vaccine!!!
Sometimes too much beurocracy makes Jack a dull boy!!!!

The UK spoke and the UK decided we wanted OUT. I’ve no doubt we won’t be the last Country to make that decision.
Hmm
Yet again I detect the a them and us. You cannot win that ideology. Hitler tried it and failed.

The EU remain the UK 's biggest customer. Any business will tell you. You need customers good and less good as long as they sustain and allow your business to prosper. Of course you can go out and find new customers but you certainly don't shut the door and turn the lights off nor slag them off on open forum.

You seem to wish for the failure of the EU. Why I cannot understand. We are not in the EU now but rely to a massive extent on trade with them. If you have an alternative economic strategy please come forth and do please let Mr Boris Johnson know too.

The vaccine argument caries little credence in this debate apart from it is indeed a successful roll out in the UK. Is that the hooray for Brexit and therefore you did the right thing.

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by waz-24-7 »

Brazen wrote:
Wed 27 Jan 2021 9:14 pm
Walesforever wrote:
Wed 27 Jan 2021 6:42 pm
Only today the EU is DEMANDING that the UK manufacturing plants had over 60% of its stock to them.

Looks like Brexit was definitely the RIGHT choice for the UK.

The EU is is a right mess with the vaccine program. Only 1.9% vaccinated so far.

From the outside looking in it looks as if the EU are coming apart at the seams.
👍👍👍
OMG
I knew there would be a good reason to leave. The pandemic and vaccine was never a Brexit selling point but of course it has suddenly become one.

Perhaps once we come out the other side of Covid we can then focus on the economic issues that have for years been the point of most importance.
I'm not going to table the un enviable UK death rate because that may be fodder for a remain argument.

Please.... the Vaccine roll out and death numbers would be much the same in my opinion IN or OUT.
Furthermore continued bicker upon how broken the EU appears is of little importance. The only real connection now is that they are
CUSTOMERS and COMPETITORS.
The European field of business has changed massively for the UK in just a few weeks. UK business in general is very poorly prepared . Our government has resorted to illuminated motorway signs to warn of trading difficulties (changes). it really is ridiculous how the UK government have prepared our economy.

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by Walesforever »

Waz

Please tell me how you think the UKs vaccine program would be the same if we were still in the EU?

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

waz-24-7 wrote:
Wed 27 Jan 2021 9:36 pm

Hmm
Yet again I detect the a them and us. You cannot win that ideology. Hitler tried it and failed.
So to be clear you slag off the U.K. at every opportunity and gleefully hope that we suffer nothing but misery because we had the temerity to vote to leave? But if anyone tries to defend the U.K. and point out that maybe, just maybe, the EU isn’t perfect in every way then they are a nationalist and one step away from Hitler?

Speaking of Hitler, let’s say he won?

We can assume that he wouldn’t have left standing armies in every country as that wouldn’t have been practical, he would have formed say a union of nations under the ultimate control of Germany.
They would have needed to control the military, the parliaments, the judiciary, the media etc.
It would have been an insidious process, countries would have had a nominal amount of supposed power because he wouldn’t want rebellions in those ‘independent’ nations as they are costly and time consuming to crush.
He would have perhaps bought one favoured nation inside the tent to help I would think. He seemed to favour the British so I guess we might have been their assistant rather than say the French.
Wars this century were won more economically than on the battlefield and over time that would have been more the case. You wouldn’t need to send an army into a country to bring it into line, economic sanctions would work 99% of the time.
Makes you wonder how Europe would have turned out 50 years after WW2 ended doesn’t it?

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by Brazen »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Thu 28 Jan 2021 2:58 pm
waz-24-7 wrote:
Wed 27 Jan 2021 9:36 pm

Hmm
Yet again I detect the a them and us. You cannot win that ideology. Hitler tried it and failed.
So to be clear you slag off the U.K. at every opportunity and gleefully hope that we suffer nothing but misery because we had the temerity to vote to leave? But if anyone tries to defend the U.K. and point out that maybe, just maybe, the EU isn’t perfect in every way then they are a nationalist and one step away from Hitler?

Speaking of Hitler, let’s say he won?

We can assume that he wouldn’t have left standing armies in every country as that wouldn’t have been practical, he would have formed say a union of nations under the ultimate control of Germany.
They would have needed to control the military, the parliaments, the judiciary, the media etc.
It would have been an insidious process, countries would have had a nominal amount of supposed power because he wouldn’t want rebellions in those ‘independent’ nations as they are costly and time consuming to crush.
He would have perhaps bought one favoured nation inside the tent to help I would think. He seemed to favour the British so I guess we might have been their assistant rather than say the French.
Wars this century were won more economically than on the battlefield and over time that would have been more the case. You wouldn’t need to send an army into a country to bring it into line, economic sanctions would work 99% of the time.
Makes you wonder how Europe would have turned out 50 years after WW2 ended doesn’t it?
Sort of sounds a bit familiar doesn’t it?

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by waz-24-7 »

Walesforever wrote:
Thu 28 Jan 2021 1:47 pm
Waz

Please tell me how you think the UKs vaccine program would be the same if we were still in the EU?
I think the UK has always been independent enough to tackle most eventualities including the pandemic. I do not believe membership of any Union whether the European or the British would change the way we attacked it. Certainly there are many that criticise our Government upon its handling of the crisis. I remain unsure as it is clearly very challenging for each and every world administration. It is quite unfair for me to take a sensible position given the circumstances and nature of this global situation.

Furthermore. We should all be aware and note. It is the virus and the disease that it causes that is the Enemy. Not the EU or China or any other struggling nation. The UK holds a position upon both vaccination roll out and death numbers. I hold no blame or malice given the unique set of circumstances thrust on the Government in this issue.

I do however criticise the Government of Mr Cameron and now Mr Johnson. Mr Cameron for taking a too complacent position on the referendum. Mr Johnson for his total failure to adequately preparing the country for Brexit and the outfall.

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Re: The Brexit effect

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Post by waz-24-7 »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Thu 28 Jan 2021 2:58 pm
waz-24-7 wrote:
Wed 27 Jan 2021 9:36 pm

Hmm
Yet again I detect the a them and us. You cannot win that ideology. Hitler tried it and failed.
So to be clear you slag off the U.K. at every opportunity and gleefully hope that we suffer nothing but misery because we had the temerity to vote to leave? But if anyone tries to defend the U.K. and point out that maybe, just maybe, the EU isn’t perfect in every way then they are a nationalist and one step away from Hitler?

Speaking of Hitler, let’s say he won?

We can assume that he wouldn’t have left standing armies in every country as that wouldn’t have been practical, he would have formed say a union of nations under the ultimate control of Germany.
They would have needed to control the military, the parliaments, the judiciary, the media etc.
It would have been an insidious process, countries would have had a nominal amount of supposed power because he wouldn’t want rebellions in those ‘independent’ nations as they are costly and time consuming to crush.
He would have perhaps bought one favoured nation inside the tent to help I would think. He seemed to favour the British so I guess we might have been their assistant rather than say the French.
Wars this century were won more economically than on the battlefield and over time that would have been more the case. You wouldn’t need to send an army into a country to bring it into line, economic sanctions would work 99% of the time.
Makes you wonder how Europe would have turned out 50 years after WW2 ended doesn’t it?
Clearly some confusion,
I do not slag off the UK. I hold a position upon its divorce from the European Union. That position is quite clear.
The Brexit brigade that won the day now struggle to qualify and quantify the new independence that is so important. The vaccine success is the hooray moment that , thank goodness it is there as without it what have we to show? At least the now free fish are happy in UK waters.

Simply put the Brexit party have shown to be pretty good at breaking things then running away. I see no post Brexit plan or strategy to build and prosper. Perhaps you could offer up the plan that you obviously voted for.

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