The Eu invoking article 16

[thornaby]

What a bunch of desperate bullies, still in doubt about Brexit, the Uk leads the world with the covid vaccines and are getting trade agreements that will tear the Eu apart! Well done Boris and three cheers for Brexit!

[Brend]

They have shown themselves up for what they are. All the bull...t about not having a border on the island of Ireland and lo and behold not even 2 months in.........
A load of unelected nincompoop's who have no idea about diplomacy.

[Geoff1131]

Be interesting to hear Waz's thoughts on this. Will he condemn the EU for acting like school playground bullies ? Or will he say that the EU were correct in breaking an agreement they only signed up to a month ago? Interesting times.

[waz-24-7]

This topic is better covered in the Politics section under a currently running post Brexit debate.

[Hedge-fund]

A year to the day since we left the eu.

1st confrontation between the UK and eu has opened the eyes of former remainers.

Although some have their eyes closed and fingers in their ears until they can find something to moan about.

The eu is done and I'm looking forward to opening our trade to a wider world.

[TAC]

More great news

The EU flag has been removed from all UK driving licenses and number plate designs to mark the one-year anniversary of Brexit.

[thornaby]

So waz is REMOANING quiet on this post. A happy and healthy February to everyone.

[thornaby]

Happy birthday Brexit!

[Kanonier]

More great news

The EU flag has been removed from all UK driving licenses and number plate designs to mark the one-year anniversary of Brexit.

I didn't have one on my car, the GB sticker was good enough for me.

[MnM]

More great news

The EU flag has been removed from all UK driving licenses and number plate designs to mark the one-year anniversary of Brexit.

I've never had the EU flag on any of my number plates. Focus has the English flag, Fiat Coupe before that had Italian flag and FTO before that had the Rising Sun. Before that people didn't bother with anything.

[waz-24-7]

So waz is REMOANING quiet on this post. A happy and healthy February to everyone.

Thank you,
I have aired my post Brexit opinions within the Politics section.
However,
The EU has done a poor job upon vaccine roll out. The UK has likewise done so on death rates.
.
Lets be clear here. This is a war against a global pandemic killing millions of people. The virus is the enemy not the EU.
The UK will have acted and rolled out vaccine regardless in or out.
The EU is not the enemy, It is our biggest customer as well as now a competitor

The bigger picture is how the UK pushes on to secure new business, maintains its EU customer base and pulls itself out from economic recession.

[PoshinDevon]

Waz.....

As you know the U.K. is pushing on to secure new business. Nearly every week we read about new trade deals being agreed or applied for. Some large and some small. This has been highlighted by a recent announcement to join the fastest growing and most dynamic Pacific Trading Countries (CPTPP) only two days ago. This will be a trading partnership worth £9 trillion per annum.

Like the vaccine roll out the U.K. is pushing forward quickly to secure business and trade all over the world. With deals being announced on an almost weekly basis, each and every deal has to be a positive.
Looking to the future many of these countries are emerging powerhouses economically, many already equal in stature to some EU member states.

As for the U.K. antagonising its EU customers, I think not. The EU farcical political posturing over the last few days is antagonising. They are the ones who tried to invoke article 16. The EU understands that the U.K. is a vital trading nation with them and they need us as much as we need them. So I suspect that eventually we will get along just fine long term. However; the difference is the U.K. is now moving swiftly and forging trade deals on its own terms with countries all over the world.

[waz-24-7]

Waz.....

As you know the U.K. is pushing on to secure new business. Nearly every week we read about new trade deals being agreed or applied for. Some large and some small. This has been highlighted by a recent announcement to join Pacific Trading Countries only two days ago.

Like the vaccine roll out the U.K. is pushing forward quickly to secure business and trade all over the world. Has to be a positive.

Hello Posh,
Yes, what you relay to me is indeed positive.
However the UK government has grossly failed its economic drivers . Buisness and working people are left in disarray. Fishing, farming , logistics , performing industries are being adversely effected right now and are losing revenue right now. This is a right here right now issue that the positivity you relay is of little use. I hold the UK government , particularly Mr Johnson and the once famous Mr Farage for the turmoil created by their campaign.

As you know I fully accept . we are no longer in the EU. It is critical to take action on major economic issues now. Sorry but logos on number plates and driving licenses are simply of no consequence.

Regarding the PTC . 11 counties. & of which we already trade with. The whole group accounts for 8% of GDP. That accounts for what we did with Germany alone pre Brexit.
I do not knock your positivity but we must wake up and smell the coffee. The UK is in recession and I await some real government led direction on how we can maintain and grow our customer base.
The anti EU brigade should possibly also come up with a plan. I'm all ears. Certainly if you antagonise your customers then expect loss.

[Brazen]

So waz is REMOANING quiet on this post. A happy and healthy February to everyone.

.
.......Lets be clear here. This is a war against a global pandemic killing millions of people. The virus is the enemy not the EU.
The UK will have acted and rolled out vaccine regardless in or out.
The EU is not the enemy, It is our biggest customer as well as now a competitor

So why are they treating us as an enemy? They are trying to make things as difficult for us at every opportunity because they, like you, didn’t like the referendum result. They are bullies, which knowing the German psyche (the EU Masters), we shouldn’t be surprised about.

[Hedge-fund]

Speaking of the UK death rate. Any death is a tragedy and destroys more than just one life.

However we count all our deaths and indeed a lot more. Others count differently. As an indication UK flu deaths are down 85% this year - so no prizes where they are being counted. Plus our NHS system and drugs keep many many vulnerable and elderly people alive beyond other countries'
capabilities and this virus was a step too far for a lot of them. There is however no denying we are overeweight as a nation and that lesson has to be learnt.

We joint the CPTPP with one eye on the yanks joining.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Speaking of the UK death rate. Any death is a tragedy and destroys more than just one life.

However we count all our deaths and indeed a lot more. Others count differently. As an indication UK flu deaths are down 85% this year - so no prizes where they are being counted. Plus our NHS system and drugs keep many many vulnerable and elderly people alive beyond other countries'
capabilities and this virus was a step too far for a lot of them. There is however no denying we are overeweight as a nation and that lesson has to be learnt.

We joint the CPTPP with one eye on the yanks joining.

There are so many variables in this that comparisons are near impossible.

Climate and the timing of your seasons.
Percentage of the population over 80
Population Density
Health of the people
Efficiency of the Health Service
Culture of the people.
Etc etc

As you say flu deaths have mysteriously disappeared.
The number of people who have died from ongoing but treatable problems would be interesting as lack of full access to the NHS is a factor.
I've heard from someone who is quite high up in the railways in Scotland that the number of people jumping in front of trains quadrupled in the last two quarters of 2020 so the overall suicide figures would be interesting and I'd be suspicious if there wasn't a huge leap due to the mental toll of the lockdown.

[thornaby]

Brazen, the eu bullies have tried to make things as difficult as possible from the moment we democratically decided to leave, a hard core of remoaners also refuse to accept that democratic decision, but it demonstrates how bad the eu is behaving when the likes of that treacherous man Tony Blur criticised their disgraceful behaviour .

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Brazen, the eu bullies have tried to make things as difficult as possible from the moment we democratically decided to leave, a hard core of remoaners also refuse to accept that democratic decision, but it demonstrates how bad the eu is behaving when the likes of that treacherous man Tony Blur criticised their disgraceful behaviour .

I think it is unrealistic to leave something and expect the same benefits as being a member but it did seem to me that the EU was obstructive in the negotiations which seems strange because you would think that any market would want to remain on at least civil terms with the 5th largest economy in the World.
As for democracy the EU is not a democratic organisation as I would understand one to be. It will tick some cosmetic boxes but lots of dictators hold elections

[thornaby]

Enjoying the sun, " obstructive ", could you have put it any milder!

[thornaby]

What the eu bullies did was outrageous, all their spouting off about Boris threatening to impose a hard border because the eu dictatorship did not negotiate in good will was a load of nonsense, these people don't give a damn about Ireland. The eu's days are numbered and I will say good!

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Enjoying the sun, " obstructive ", could you have put it any milder!

Well you know me!
That's problem with a bully who is used to getting all their own way

[waz-24-7]

So waz is REMOANING quiet on this post. A happy and healthy February to everyone.

.
.......Lets be clear here. This is a war against a global pandemic killing millions of people. The virus is the enemy not the EU.
The UK will have acted and rolled out vaccine regardless in or out.
The EU is not the enemy, It is our biggest customer as well as now a competitor

So why are they treating us as an enemy? They are trying to make things as difficult for us at every opportunity because they, like you, didn’t like the referendum result. They are bullies, which knowing the German psyche (the EU Masters), we shouldn’t be surprised about.

I'm afraid divorce proceedings are never the most friendly of processes. Was it not Mr Johnson that only a few weeks ago intended to renege upon the agreed and ratified deal? What is concerning is, yes, the onset of confrontation and animosity.
Exactly what I desperately wanted to avoid. What can we expect in the coming years? Clearly many have the bit between the teeth and seem intent of driving division further. Whilst I was not around for either of the great wars. The signals I am seeing are not peaceful.

[Brazen]

.
.......Lets be clear here. This is a war against a global pandemic killing millions of people. The virus is the enemy not the EU.
The UK will have acted and rolled out vaccine regardless in or out.
The EU is not the enemy, It is our biggest customer as well as now a competitor

So why are they treating us as an enemy? They are trying to make things as difficult for us at every opportunity because they, like you, didn’t like the referendum result. They are bullies, which knowing the German psyche (the EU Masters), we shouldn’t be surprised about.

I'm afraid divorce proceedings are never the most friendly of processes. Was it not Mr Johnson that only a few weeks ago intended to renege upon the agreed and ratified deal? What is concerning is, yes, the onset of confrontation and animosity.
Exactly what I desperately wanted to avoid. What can we expect in the coming years? Clearly many have the bit between the teeth and seem intent of driving division further. Whilst I was not around for either of the great wars. The signals I am seeing are not peaceful.

As long as we keep out of it I don’t care!

[waz-24-7]

So why are they treating us as an enemy? They are trying to make things as difficult for us at every opportunity because they, like you, didn’t like the referendum result. They are bullies, which knowing the German psyche (the EU Masters), we shouldn’t be surprised about.

I'm afraid divorce proceedings are never the most friendly of processes. Was it not Mr Johnson that only a few weeks ago intended to renege upon the agreed and ratified deal? What is concerning is, yes, the onset of confrontation and animosity.
Exactly what I desperately wanted to avoid. What can we expect in the coming years? Clearly many have the bit between the teeth and seem intent of driving division further. Whilst I was not around for either of the great wars. The signals I am seeing are not peaceful.

As long as we keep out of it I don’t care!

Hmm
Somewhat isolationist I think.
Guess being a guest of a foreign country, by many intents part of the European Union. You may be a little lost.

[Brazen]

I'm afraid divorce proceedings are never the most friendly of processes. Was it not Mr Johnson that only a few weeks ago intended to renege upon the agreed and ratified deal? What is concerning is, yes, the onset of confrontation and animosity.
Exactly what I desperately wanted to avoid. What can we expect in the coming years? Clearly many have the bit between the teeth and seem intent of driving division further. Whilst I was not around for either of the great wars. The signals I am seeing are not peaceful.

As long as we keep out of it I don’t care!

Hmm
Somewhat isolationist I think.
Guess being a guest of a foreign country, by many intents part of the European Union. You may be a little lost.

I don’t imagine there will be many takers on helping out the French et al again.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Hmm
Somewhat isolationist I think.
Guess being a guest of a foreign country, by many intents part of the European Union. You may be a little lost.

Seriously? The EU have done the TRNC proud haven’t they?
Wanting to only trade with your immediate neighbours isn’t isolationist?

[waz-24-7]

Hmm
Somewhat isolationist I think.
Guess being a guest of a foreign country, by many intents part of the European Union. You may be a little lost.

Seriously? The EU have done the TRNC proud haven’t they?
Wanting to only trade with your immediate neighbours isn’t isolationist?

Not sure what your point is?
Has the EU offended the TRNC. I do know that a few EU funded projects in Grine have been quite successful.
Certainly in the UK the projects in South Wales for example have been real livelihood savers.

Who wants to only trade with immediate neighbours? My point is that local trade is easier and an EU customer base is in place. Global trade is certainly there but more difficult to secure mainly because it is distance constrained and competition is more fierce.
The recent Pacific trade application will unlikely result in massive increases in GDP. Never the less the move is positive and hopefully will open some level of trade.

[PoshinDevon]

Waz

The thing is we have a trade deal with the EU and that will likely continue and change over time, but will remain. Both the U.K. and the EU understand that to make things work this has to happen.

The U.K. is also striking trade deals with other countries all over the world with as I have said announcements made almost weekly. You dismiss these deals as being minor and relatively insignificant. I think not. Every new deal or agreement is a positive for the U.K. Many of these countries are economically better performing than some of those in the EU and like South Korea and Japan before them are emerging economic powerhouses. The U.K. would do well not to ignore this opportunity.

[kerry 6138]

waz -Has the EU offended the TRNC.
Do you remember the results of the votes on the Annan plan and the EU's strange diplomatic reaction?

[Brazen]

Hmm
Somewhat isolationist I think.
Guess being a guest of a foreign country, by many intents part of the European Union. You may be a little lost.

Seriously? The EU have done the TRNC proud haven’t they?
Wanting to only trade with your immediate neighbours isn’t isolationist?

Not sure what your point is?
Has the EU offended the TRNC. I do know that a few EU funded projects in Grine have been quite successful.
Certainly in the UK the projects in South Wales for example have been real livelihood savers.

Who wants to only trade with immediate neighbours? My point is that local trade is easier and an EU customer base is in place. Global trade is certainly there but more difficult to secure mainly because it is distance constrained and competition is more fierce.
The recent Pacific trade application will unlikely result in massive increases in GDP. Never the less the move is positive and hopefully will open some level of trade.

How much of our cash was spent on Wales by the EU?

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Not sure what your point is?
Has the EU offended the TRNC. I do know that a few EU funded projects in Grine have been quite successful.

The Annan plan. The referendum?
Yeah they threw a few crumbs in for the Lapta Walkway, lets throw a party.

Certainly in the UK the projects in South Wales for example have been real livelihood savers.

OK for the 500th time, It......isn't.......their........money. It's the UK's own money returned less a massive commission. You'll complain about the figure on the red bus but not seem to have any grasp what the concept of it was.

Speaking of the bus let's look at the referendum.
I can only speak for myself but whenever you have any political debate/argument you always assume that both sides will drown you in some very iffy statistics and if not outright lies some very spun truths.
So some swallow the lies wholesale but it doesn't really make a difference because those who believe 100% what leave or remain or Labour or Conservative tell them are unlikely to be a floating voter anyhow.
Most people will look at these 'facts/statistics' and try to verify them. When they do, they see "ok the figure on the red bus is a gross figure so that's very sneaky but Jesus Christ we still send an awful lot of money to the EU each week could we use that money better?"

My point is that local trade is easier and an EU customer base is in place. Global trade is certainly there but more difficult to secure mainly because it is distance constrained and competition is more fierce.

The customer base is already there because we threw away other markets to join the EU. Check imports and exports with the EU countries and with the Commonwealth countries pre 1972 and post 1972. It's a self fulfilling prophesy.

I don't think anyone is under any illusions that Britain is going to turn into a manufacturing powerhouse anytime soon.
We import far more than we export. so if leaving enables us to source cheaper exports, which now having a free choice we should be able to, then Brexit will be no bad thing. For exporters they now have free access to the world's 5th biggest economy so they'll get competitive to grab a market share.
As for distance, it's not 1740 anymore. China is a long way from it's biggest markets and if you look at the geography it is a fairly inaccessible country compared with America but they seem to be coping.

[waz-24-7]

Waz

The thing is we have a trade deal with the EU and that will likely continue and change over time, but will remain. Both the U.K. and the EU understand that to make things work this has to happen.

The U.K. is also striking trade deals with other countries all over the world with as I have said announcements made almost weekly. You dismiss these deals as being minor and relatively insignificant. I think not. Every new deal or agreement is a positive for the U.K. Many of these countries are economically better performing than some of those in the EU and like South Korea and Japan before them are emerging economic powerhouses. The U.K. would do well not to ignore this opportunity.

Posh
To be clear the UK does not ignore any opportunities for trade. That focus we are very good at and full marks to the DTI for efforts.
My point is and cannot be disputed is the fact that trade with our biggest customer is now, more difficult , more expensive and we are now less competitive. This is a the basis of my opposition to leaving the customs union. What is your reasoning for that folly or is it the UK just couldn't secure the promised deal.
I cannot make it any clearer.

[waz-24-7]

waz -Has the EU offended the TRNC.
Do you remember the results of the votes on the Annan plan and the EU's strange diplomatic reaction?

Yes I do.
The UK had veto rights and so some accountability. Of course the Turkish position within Cyprus was very much frowned upon and international law did not help the Turkish Cypriot cause.
Are we to dwell upon every decision since 1974 as a reason to leave.
The tribal nature of this debate appears to be a chose a side then fight to the death.
I keep an open mind on how things will progress and hope that the things will improve.
Certainly at this moment the UK economy is not the thriving power house that I was led to believe it would be.

[waz-24-7]

Not sure what your point is?
Has the EU offended the TRNC. I do know that a few EU funded projects in Grine have been quite successful.

The Annan plan. The referendum?
Yeah they threw a few crumbs into for the Lapta Walkway, lets throw a party.

Certainly in the UK the projects in South Wales for example have been real livelihood savers.

OK for the 500th time, It......isn't.......their........money. It's the UK's own money returned less a massive commission. You'll complain about the figure on the red bus but not seem to have any grasp what the concept of it was.

Speaking of the bus let's look at the referendum.
I can only speak for myself but whenever you have any political debate/argument you always assume that both sides will drown you in some very iffy statistics and if not outright lies some very spun truths.
So some swallow the lies wholesale but it doesn't really make a difference because those who believe 100% what leave or remain or Labour or Conservative tell them are unlikely to be a floating voter anyhow.
Most people will look at these 'facts/statistics' and try to verify them. When they do, they see "ok the figure on the red bus is a gross figure so that's very sneaky but Jesus Christ we still send an awful lot of money to the EU each week could we use that money better?"

My point is that local trade is easier and an EU customer base is in place. Global trade is certainly there but more difficult to secure mainly because it is distance constrained and competition is more fierce.

The customer base is already there because we threw away other markets to join the EU. Check imports and exports with the EU countries and with the Commonwealth countries pre 1972 and post 1972. It's a self fulfilling prophesy.

I don't think anyone is under any illusions that Britain is going to turn into a manufacturing powerhouse anytime soon.
We import far more than we export. so if leaving enables us to source cheaper exports, which now having a free choice we should be able to, then Brexit will be no bad thing. For exporters they now have free access to the world's 5th biggest economy so they'll get competitive to grab a market share.
As for distance, it's not 1740 anymore. China is a long way from it's biggest markets and if you look at the geography it is a fairly inaccessible country compared with America but they seem to be coping.

Hmm
1972 in economic terms is a millennium distant. China is a totally different economy to the UK. Cheap and plentiful labour. Massive growth combined with immense surplus wealth. With labour rates at circa 10$ a day the logistics of getting cheap products to market still make commercial sense. The manufacturing base within China leaves every other economy left behind. Of course this could change but it wont be the UK that can compete. It will be possibly India and the middle eastern belt like Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan. The UK position will not be manufacturing but more likely services that are essentially lower volume employers. This leads to increased division and spread of wealth.
Certainly during the current pandemic the top 10 % wealthiest have massively increased their net worth.

[PoshinDevon]

Waz

The thing is we have a trade deal with the EU and that will likely continue and change over time, but will remain. Both the U.K. and the EU understand that to make things work this has to happen.

The U.K. is also striking trade deals with other countries all over the world with as I have said announcements made almost weekly. You dismiss these deals as being minor and relatively insignificant. I think not. Every new deal or agreement is a positive for the U.K. Many of these countries are economically better performing than some of those in the EU and like South Korea and Japan before them are emerging economic powerhouses. The U.K. would do well not to ignore this opportunity.

Posh
To be clear the UK does not ignore any opportunities for trade. That focus we are very good at and full marks to the DTI for efforts.
My point is and cannot be disputed is the fact that trade with our biggest customer is now, more difficult , more expensive and we are now less competitive. This is a the basis of my opposition to leaving the customs union. What is your reasoning for that folly or is it the UK just couldn't secure the promised deal.
I cannot make it any clearer.

I cannot make it clearer either. The U.K. has a deal with the EU. Agreed and ratified by both sides. It’s done. You can moan all you want about the agreement which is obviously a compromise. Whilst the U.K. may not be happy about some elements of the deal, I have no doubt the EU is the same. So there is no point in moaning about it ad infinitum.

In addition the U.K. is doing deals with many other countries and trading organisations. However you are ignoring and dismissing these as all that you seem to be concerned about is the EU.

[waz-24-7]

Waz

The thing is we have a trade deal with the EU and that will likely continue and change over time, but will remain. Both the U.K. and the EU understand that to make things work this has to happen.

The U.K. is also striking trade deals with other countries all over the world with as I have said announcements made almost weekly. You dismiss these deals as being minor and relatively insignificant. I think not. Every new deal or agreement is a positive for the U.K. Many of these countries are economically better performing than some of those in the EU and like South Korea and Japan before them are emerging economic powerhouses. The U.K. would do well not to ignore this opportunity.

Posh
To be clear the UK does not ignore any opportunities for trade. That focus we are very good at and full marks to the DTI for efforts.
My point is and cannot be disputed is the fact that trade with our biggest customer is now, more difficult , more expensive and we are now less competitive. This is a the basis of my opposition to leaving the customs union. What is your reasoning for that folly or is it the UK just couldn't secure the promised deal.
I cannot make it any clearer.

I cannot make it clearer either. The U.K. has a deal with the EU. Agreed and ratified by both sides. It’s done. You can moan all you want about the agreement which is obviously a compromise. Whilst the U.K. may not be happy about some elements of the deal, I have no doubt the EU is the same. So there is no point in moaning about it ad infinitum.

In addition the U.K. is doing deals with many other countries and trading organisations. However you are ignoring and dismissing these as all that you seem to be concerned about is the EU.

The Deal is certainly there. I don't contest that. What is very apparent is that the deal is and always has been rubbish for British Business.
You are well aware that I call upon the UK government to do something for the failed and hoodwinked people that are clearly loosing.

I think your apparent position that the UK government can now do no wrong because they signed a deal is not helpful.
Please appreciate the difficulties that are clear and perhaps join with many and get the UK government to act more forcibly in resolving the immediate and important issues. This is not an EU issue this is British government incompetence.

Your shut up and put up stance will leave government to rule without recourse challenge or account. That is not good for our country.
Therefore it is not a moan it's a desperate plea that our government do something for the businesses and people in urgent need.
I hope that makes sense and you can now see my point of view.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

1972 in economic terms is a millennium distant.

Totally missed the point as usual.
The point was about what percentage of our trade was done with EU countries. After joining the EU it massively increased because we were encouraged to ditch our old markets and go all in with the EU. So it was a self fulfilling prophesy.

China is a totally different economy to the UK.

Yes one that is far more effected by delivery distances and costs which was your point I believe?
Moving fridge freezers around is far more expensive than clicking on a mouse to move money around.

Certainly during the current pandemic the top 10 % wealthiest have massively increased their net worth.

Fairly irrelevant and the usual politics of envy.
Yes some within that 10% will have massively increased their wealth. Supermarkets, companies such as Amazon or anyone who owns a company making the vaccine for example.
People who have their money in non essential bricks and mortar retail outlets or airlines will have done terribly and their fortune will have dwindled considerably.
That's how it works.
In the summer the ice cream van does well, whereas in the winter he doesn't. In the winter the log man does well, in the summer he doesn't.
Now if we have a particularly cold and lengthy winter or very hot and lengthy summer...........

You do know that most of these guys money isn't in dollar bills right, that it is wrapped up in their companies share price?

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Your shut up and put up stance will leave government to rule without recourse challenge or account. That is not good for our country.
Therefore it is not a moan it's a desperate plea that our government do something for the businesses and people in urgent need.
I hope that makes sense and you can now see my point of view.

The government is accountable and can be challenged at every general election. If Johnson's numbers go down much and it looks as if the Tories can't get elected with him at the helm they will drop him like a bad smell.
Personally I don't remember voting for Ursula von der Leyen do you?

So you want government to micro manage everything? If a business hasn't spent the last 4 years preparing itself for Brexit and hoping it would go away that's Boris Johnson's fault?
Britain's membership of the EU is done. It's dead. It's gone.
Let it go and move on. Or keep trying to stand in front of the tide and try and force it to change direction.

I guess at around the 1880s there were saddle makers who thought these new fangled cars are going to kill our business. Which rich family is going to buy 4 saddles for their family when they can buy a car and lose the horses?
Now they could of lobbied parliament and tried to ban the car. "Think of our workers." They could have maybe delayed the inevitable by a couple of years but they were standing against a changing world.
So they could give up and say "woe is me" or they could have gone into a different business or even re-tooled and used the leather for car seats.

I'm sure they would have said this is not good for our country. What they meant was this is not good for me, I am doing great making saddles.
Who knows after a few tricky years they might have said "wow we are making more money than we ever did."

The British people rightly or wrongly wanted out of the EU. Personally I can't see us ever returning unless we are bounced into it without the population's consent. So you could sit on your hands and wait for something that may never happen or you can try and branch out.
VHS beat Betamax although most agree Betamax was a better product.
You can be Kodak and not move into digital photography as you have a lot of money tied up in films for cameras.

[PoshinDevon]

Posh
To be clear the UK does not ignore any opportunities for trade. That focus we are very good at and full marks to the DTI for efforts.
My point is and cannot be disputed is the fact that trade with our biggest customer is now, more difficult , more expensive and we are now less competitive. This is a the basis of my opposition to leaving the customs union. What is your reasoning for that folly or is it the UK just couldn't secure the promised deal.
I cannot make it any clearer.

I cannot make it clearer either. The U.K. has a deal with the EU. Agreed and ratified by both sides. It’s done. You can moan all you want about the agreement which is obviously a compromise. Whilst the U.K. may not be happy about some elements of the deal, I have no doubt the EU is the same. So there is no point in moaning about it ad infinitum.

In addition the U.K. is doing deals with many other countries and trading organisations. However you are ignoring and dismissing these as all that you seem to be concerned about is the EU.

The Deal is certainly there. I don't contest that. What is very apparent is that the deal is and always has been rubbish for British Business.
You are well aware that I call upon the UK government to do something for the failed and hoodwinked people that are clearly loosing.

I think your apparent position that the UK government can now do no wrong because they signed a deal is not helpful.
Please appreciate the difficulties that are clear and perhaps join with many and get the UK government to act more forcibly in resolving the immediate and important issues. This is not an EU issue this is British government incompetence.

Your shut up and put up stance will leave government to rule without recourse challenge or account. That is not good for our country.
Therefore it is not a moan it's a desperate plea that our government do something for the businesses and people in urgent need.
I hope that makes sense and you can now see my point of view.

The deal is done. Agreed by both parties. We make the best of it because continuing to moan about it simply isn’t going to help. Looking forward positively is a much preferred option. Who knows what opportunities may come our way.

[waz-24-7]

I cannot make it clearer either. The U.K. has a deal with the EU. Agreed and ratified by both sides. It’s done. You can moan all you want about the agreement which is obviously a compromise. Whilst the U.K. may not be happy about some elements of the deal, I have no doubt the EU is the same. So there is no point in moaning about it ad infinitum.

In addition the U.K. is doing deals with many other countries and trading organisations. However you are ignoring and dismissing these as all that you seem to be concerned about is the EU.

The Deal is certainly there. I don't contest that. What is very apparent is that the deal is and always has been rubbish for British Business.
You are well aware that I call upon the UK government to do something for the failed and hoodwinked people that are clearly loosing.

I think your apparent position that the UK government can now do no wrong because they signed a deal is not helpful.
Please appreciate the difficulties that are clear and perhaps join with many and get the UK government to act more forcibly in resolving the immediate and important issues. This is not an EU issue this is British government incompetence.

Your shut up and put up stance will leave government to rule without recourse challenge or account. That is not good for our country.
Therefore it is not a moan it's a desperate plea that our government do something for the businesses and people in urgent need.
I hope that makes sense and you can now see my point of view.

The deal is done. Agreed by both parties. We make the best of it because continuing to moan about it simply isn’t going to help. Looking forward positively is a much preferred option. Who knows what opportunities may come our way.

It is not moaning . Its demanding something is done about it.
It is clear that the issues that 90% of business saw coming have indeed transpired. From cut flower importers, wooden roof truss manufactures, farmers and food producers to the man on the street that is paying vat and duty on something as simple as a coat from and Italy fashion store. The current situation is not acceptable or positive.
These are the things that have been neglected , passed over for the marvelous deal we have secured.
It is simply not good enough. No I don't want to wait and see if UK businesses can survive. I want to see action and strategy to save, yes save the UK economy.
I'm afraid tribal winner takes all mentality that I see from many is not going to carry us through.

Please tell me if what I say in incorrect but if you do . Please tell UK business how its all going to okay. Please tell us soon.

[waz-24-7]

Your shut up and put up stance will leave government to rule without recourse challenge or account. That is not good for our country.
Therefore it is not a moan it's a desperate plea that our government do something for the businesses and people in urgent need.
I hope that makes sense and you can now see my point of view.

The government is accountable and can be challenged at every general election. If Johnson's numbers go down much and it looks as if the Tories can't get elected with him at the helm they will drop him like a bad smell.
Personally I don't remember voting for Ursula von der Leyen do you?

So you want government to micro manage everything? If a business hasn't spent the last 4 years preparing itself for Brexit and hoping it would go away that's Boris Johnson's fault?
Britain's membership of the EU is done. It's dead. It's gone.
Let it go and move on. Or keep trying to stand in front of the tide and try and force it to change direction.

I guess at around the 1880s there were saddle makers who thought these new fangled cars are going to kill our business. Which rich family is going to buy 4 saddles for their family when they can buy a car and lose the horses?
Now they could of lobbied parliament and tried to ban the car. "Think of our workers." They could have maybe delayed the inevitable by a couple of years but they were standing against a changing world.
So they could give up and say "woe is me" or they could have gone into a different business or even re-tooled and used the leather for car seats.

I'm sure they would have said this is not good for our country. What they meant was this is not good for me, I am doing great making saddles.
Who knows after a few tricky years they might have said "wow we are making more money than we ever did."

The British people rightly or wrongly wanted out of the EU. Personally I can't see us ever returning unless we are bounced into it without the population's consent. So you could sit on your hands and wait for something that may never happen or you can try and branch out.
VHS beat Betamax although most agree Betamax was a better product.
You can be Kodak and not move into digital photography as you have a lot of money tied up in films for cameras.

Yes, Of course every single UK business including mine will strive to prosper and capitalise on opportunities.
The deck of cards dealt to us by the Government is far from a winning or even a strong hand.
Yes I hold the government to account. Of course Mr Johnson was a mainstay for Leave. Many politicians were not. It is done yes, for 4 years and yet we are not ready. Ready at all.

I cannot tell you the additional work and cost in both import and export. Vat, commodity codes, shipping documentation. EU certification and conformity. Its a quagmire of cost and bureaucracy that leaves the EU process a golden star winner.

So yes it's done but is the future done. Absolutely No. When we have all read the business guidance displayed on motorway signs. Can we then take a position that it will be all okay eventually. A pitiful failure by Mr Johnson and his tribal supporters.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

I cannot tell you the additional work and cost in both import and export. Vat, commodity codes, shipping documentation. EU certification and conformity. Its a quagmire of cost and bureaucracy that leaves the EU process a golden star winner.

So a morass of bureaucracy and costs to do business with the EU?

[Brazen]

On a lighter note I saw this on a daily express comments section and just had to copy and paste.

“France have been told they must use the new German Vaccines of which only two are sanctioned .they will be known as the V1 and the V2”

[waz-24-7]

I cannot tell you the additional work and cost in both import and export. Vat, commodity codes, shipping documentation. EU certification and conformity. Its a quagmire of cost and bureaucracy that leaves the EU process a golden star winner.

So a morass of bureaucracy and costs to do business with the EU?

Yes indeed.
Whilst our EU competitors carry on with a seamless inter Union flow of goods and services. Advantageous? damn right!

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Yes indeed.
Whilst our EU competitors carry on with a seamless inter Union flow of goods and services. Advantageous? damn right!

So tariffs aren’t isolationist and a good thing then?
Okaaaaaay

[waz-24-7]

Yes indeed.
Whilst our EU competitors carry on with a seamless inter Union flow of goods and services. Advantageous? damn right!

So tariffs aren’t isolationist and a good thing then?
Okaaaaaay

In the Customs Union there is free trade. No tariffs, free circulation of goods and services. Smooth and easy. Only criteria is all meet the same standards and are CE marked. And we've still got to meet the standards regardless

[EnjoyingTheSun]

In the Customs Union there is free trade. No tariffs, free circulation of goods and services. Smooth and easy. Only criteria is all meet the same standards and are CE marked. And we've still got to meet the standards regardless

You know regulations are used for protectionism as well right?

[waz-24-7]

In the Customs Union there is free trade. No tariffs, free circulation of goods and services. Smooth and easy. Only criteria is all meet the same standards and are CE marked. And we've still got to meet the standards regardless

You know regulations are used for protectionism as well right?

Yes I agree there is an element of that.
However the positive side with the UK and the EU is that standards are upheld. I'm guessing most of the EU protocol. food labelling and CE marking.
Unless we want to write our own all new book for our own internal market.

Chlorinated chicken from the USA. .if we get a trade deal.... will certainly be on the quality and health agenda.

[Brazen]

In the Customs Union there is free trade. No tariffs, free circulation of goods and services. Smooth and easy. Only criteria is all meet the same standards and are CE marked. And we've still got to meet the standards regardless

You know regulations are used for protectionism as well right?

Yes I agree there is an element of that.
However the positive side with the UK and the EU is that standards are upheld. I'm guessing most of the EU protocol. food labelling and CE marking.
Unless we want to write our own all new book for our own internal market.

Chlorinated chicken from the USA. .if we get a trade deal.... will certainly be on the quality and health agenda.

How has eating chlorinated chicken affected US citizens? How has eating Marks and Spencer chlorinated salad affected UK citizens? Is it better to eat chicken pumped full of antibiotics?

Its a juvenile remoaner ploy to keep raising this scare, but it never worked did it?

[waz-24-7]

You know regulations are used for protectionism as well right?

Yes I agree there is an element of that.
However the positive side with the UK and the EU is that standards are upheld. I'm guessing most of the EU protocol. food labelling and CE marking.
Unless we want to write our own all new book for our own internal market.

Chlorinated chicken from the USA. .if we get a trade deal.... will certainly be on the quality and health agenda.

How has eating chlorinated chicken affected US citizens? How has eating Marks and Spencer chlorinated salad affected UK citizens? Is it better to eat chicken pumped full of antibiotics?

Its a juvenile remoaner ploy to keep raising this scare, but it never worked did it?

Probably no effect from chlorinated chicken...ask any American.
However in the UK and EU chlorinated chicken is banned. Why?
Will the UK now move to allow it? The USA will definitely apply pressure in any trade deal.
What other standards are to be changed and implemented to win trade favour? Employment law I think...no bad thing on that.
The New "ministry of UK standards "will spend the EU contributions claw back for no real benefit .
I've always said the cost of stand alone bureaucracy within the UK is not going to win any additional trade or advantage.