Bad news re travelling to or from South

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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by waz-24-7 »

PoshinDevon wrote:
Mon 22 Feb 2021 11:22 pm
wrymouth wrote:
Mon 22 Feb 2021 7:06 pm
Just in case anybody feels I am unfairly criticising the regime in the south I wanted to add that I first came to this Island in Feb 1966 and stayed just over 3 years. During that time I saw at first hand what was being done to the Turkish Cypriot minority and was appalled. This was the beginning of 3 important changes for me. Firstly, I made several good friends amongst the Turkish Cypriot community especially in Limassol where I lived; some of them are still alive and we are still good friends. Secondly, I became increasingly aware that what newspapers print and what you have seen with your own eyes are not always the same. Finally, and thanks largely to the first two, I began to take a much greater interest in the politics of the Eastern Mediterranean.
Well said!

My feelings are the same. I love this island and have many Greek and Turkish Cypriot friends. Since first setting foot on the island in 1970 this has not changed. However; I do try and stay away from discussing “The Cyprus Problem” as politics and outside influences have certainly had an impact.
Yes many ex pats now residing and or frequently visiting the island have long term associations. Many, if I'm not mistaken are linked to military service.
I openly discuss the Cyprus problem as I believe open debate on the issue is good. Many long standing "Cyprus savvy" people well know the divided attitudes of the factions of opinion. Turkish Cypriots are more concerned over Turkish mainlanders than of Greek Cypriots. Many Greek Cypriots still hold affinity to Greece and maintain a dislike for anything Turkish. Turkish Cypriots love the Turkish handouts and financial support that awards them an "easy life" whilst other minorities do the work.

The politics in the eastern Mediterranean is a subject of interest because of the above. Battleship Cyprus has been the focus of attention for centuries because of its geographical and commanding position. It will remain so well into the future.
The division of the island TRNC, ROC, UK reflects the desire to hold territory and position upon its decks.
The UK amongst others failed the island and the Cyprus problem is indeed a problem that should be boldly addressed. At least the Island is currently peaceful and by enlarge remains a stable and happy environment. However the situation could very easily deteriorate quickly because of the battleship status, the fight for mineral rights, and the proximity of unrest in the middle East.
Does this affect access to or from the South. Yes certainly. The UK sovereign bases ( UK territory) provide and maintain security in the South. The less well represented "occupied territory" less so. The Massive Turkish military presence in the North has similar effect. Any sign of trouble and the 1st thing that happens is the borders are closed. Behind the scenes. I think the situation can become quite volatile and it is the UN presence that binds it all together. The decks on the battleship are all ship shape for the time being providing each is happy with its lot. If another war ship chooses to get a bit too close then who knows?

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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by PoshinDevon »

Waz

Will make just one comment on your last post which is in my experience discussing the Cyprus problem with Cypriots can often result in an explosion of emotion. I find it is best to avoid discussion because as I have learnt that Cyprus belongs to the Cypriots and it is for them to resolve the problem.Trying to impose or put your own point of view across is often not helpful.
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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by waz-24-7 »

PoshinDevon wrote:
Tue 23 Feb 2021 9:02 pm
Waz

Will make just one comment on your last post which is in my experience discussing the Cyprus problem with Cypriots can often result in an explosion of emotion. I find it is best to avoid discussion because as I have learnt that Cyprus belongs to the Cypriots and it is for them to resolve the problem.Trying to impose or put your own point of view across is often not helpful.
Yes I agree,
Circumstances and opinions are however very varied. My own opinions are kept within during discussions. I'm not sure the will to resolution is there right now.
Turkish Cypriots dislike the mainlanders but love the handouts. The Greek Cypriots of the generation still feel hard done by. The younger generations are rather more tolerant and a solution is the end goal.

I'm not sure that Cypriots are able to sort the problem on their own. There is just too many outside influencers who have a vested interest upon the Island. That is because of its before mentioned importance as a military platform.

Certainly I have experience both aggressive points of view as well as tales of loss and grief. Like other historical ethnic cleansing campaigns the Cypriot one is quite often not remembered or highlighted enough.

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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by 13roman58 »

waz-24-7 wrote:
Tue 23 Feb 2021 9:32 pm
PoshinDevon wrote:
Tue 23 Feb 2021 9:02 pm
Waz


The Greek Cypriots of the generation still feel hard done by.
The younger generations are rather more tolerant and a solution is the end goal.
Like other historical ethnic cleansing campaigns the Cypriot one is quite often not remembered or highlighted enough.

Lest we forget ETHNIC CLEANSING

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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by waz-24-7 »

waz-24-7 wrote:
Tue 23 Feb 2021 9:32 pm
PoshinDevon wrote:
Tue 23 Feb 2021 9:02 pm
Waz

Will make just one comment on your last post which is in my experience discussing the Cyprus problem with Cypriots can often result in an explosion of emotion. I find it is best to avoid discussion because as I have learnt that Cyprus belongs to the Cypriots and it is for them to resolve the problem.Trying to impose or put your own point of view across is often not helpful.
Yes I agree, It is an emotive subject for many.
Circumstances and opinions are however very varied. My own opinions are kept within during discussions. I'm not sure the will to resolve is there right now. Its so easy to just carry on.
Turkish Cypriots dislike the mainlanders but love the supportive financial handouts. The Greek Cypriots of the generation still feel hard done by. The younger generations are rather more tolerant and unification is something to aspire to.

I'm not sure that Cypriots are able to sort the problem on their own. There is just too many outside influencers who have a vested interest upon the Island. That is because of its before mentioned importance as a military platform.

Certainly I have experienced both aggressive points of view as well as tales of loss and grief. Like other historical ethnic cleansing campaigns the Cypriot one is quite often not remembered or highlighted enough.

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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

Re the Cyprus problem, is there an overwhelming desire from the Cypriot people both GCs and TCs to sort it out?

Some such as politicians etc will have a vested interest in keeping the island divided. Two countries means two prime ministers, two presidents, two people in charge of the army and two people in charge of the fire brigade etc etc. There are a lot of local government jobs that we could lose through economies of scale.
Some always want to stick to the status quo because they are frightened of change and settle for what they have. After all women stay with abuse husbands. "Yes he beats me daily but he puts food on the table and is good with the kids."
And never underestimate apathy. People who would like change but will do something about it next year or sometime.

Re the geographical value of Cyprus I'm not so sure nowadays that has the value it once did tbh.
I'm sure technology can create a pretty good listening post to spy in space and militarily I think we have moved on too.
Back in the day they built castle with high walls on top of very steep hills and could wait behind the walls in absolute safety. But nowadays they don't because people aren't running up that hill with a spear anymore.

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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by thickey »

Is this a bag of crap.if so please take it down now. I read this site for truth full information (:Z)(

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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by PoshinDevon »

thickey wrote:
Wed 24 Feb 2021 6:18 pm
Is this a bag of crap.if so please take it down now. I read this site for truth full information (:Z)(
The original poster provided the information in good faith.

At present I have not seen anything to say that this is or is not true. It could be that due to translation then the original information was misinterpreted.

If we find out for certain from a verified source that the original information is not correct then this post will be updated.
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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

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According to the written statement made by the HP Press Office,
Özersay stated that the Greek side has also prevented the British who want to cross from the South to the North by publishing a new document, “The United Kingdom is not a member of the EU, since the Greek side is out of the EU, as well as the citizens of Israel. "There has been a problem of banning the passage of tourists to our country through their regions." Noting that this is an unacceptable initiative lacking good intentions, Özersay continued as follows: “What needs to be done now is for the President and the Minister of Foreign Affairs to move as soon as possible against this move, which meant undermining tourism, as we did while in office. President of the Republic from time to time shows the teleconference talks by broadcasting on social media. He must express these in his contacts. Because the arrivals from the South is one of the lifeblood of the Turkish Cypriots. “WHICH PARTNERSHIP WILL BE CONSIDERED WITH THE GRAND WHO IS BORING OUR BOSPHORUS ABOUT TOURISM? Reminding that a political process is now approaching and that a five-way meeting will be held, Özersay said, "The future of the Cyprus problem, which has been spoken for 50 years, will be talked about" and said: “You are not going to squeeze my throat and let me breathe about the tourism that I breathe, so on such a vital issue, but am I going to sit down with you at the informal quintet meeting and talk about what kind of partnership I will establish? 'Let's solve them, let's move on to the situation before the epidemic about gates and passages. What partnership will we establish in this environment of insecurity, also if you have my throat about tourism? ' should be called. However, I haven't heard a voice or an attempt yet. "WE SOLVED SIMILAR CRISES IN THE PAST WITH OUR ATTEMPTS" HP President Özersay stated that, when he was the Minister of Foreign Affairs, they had similar crises regarding those who wanted to come to the South from Russia and Israel and cross to the North and that they solved the problems with the initiatives he made as minister. Özersay explained the process with the following words: “When it comes to Russian citizens coming from Moscow to our country as tourists via Larnaca, it was said that people cannot go to the North at the airport, we will send you from here if you go. They tried to tire a group of Russians who would come to our country as tourists with administrative procedures. As the Minister of Foreign Affairs, I immediately contacted the Ambassador of the Russian Federation in Southern Cyprus. We informed the Russians who were unaware that their citizens were humiliated and subjected to this treatment with the initiatives we made. We also took initiatives in New York. Because there are very effective Russian officials there, there are permanent representatives. The result is that this hurdle has been overcome. Then they made the same move regarding Israeli citizens. We contacted the Israeli representative, we mobilized them. "WHEN THE OPENINGS BEGIN, THE GRANDS SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO AFFECT OUR ECONOMY" Özersay stated that he made a lot of diplomatic initiatives on similar issues while he was the Minister of Foreign Affairs, but that the Greeks made a new move and prepared a new document to change the Green Line Regulation in practice, and said, “The Green Line Regulation is a European Union regulation and that regulation changes in Brussels. Since the Greeks knew that they could not do this there, the statute remained the same, but they tried to spoil it. "When the citizens of other third countries, who are not EU citizens, came to the South, they started to prevent them from entering the TRNC." They raised a lot of trouble after the Greek side's move; Özersay said that he wrote a letter to the UN Secretary General, to EU officials and that he made a teleconference with the UN Deputy Secretary General, and that the Greeks complained about this issue and that the Greeks postponed this practice due to the pressure. The EU Commission said, “You cannot change the Regulation on your own. However, Özersay stated that he made a statement as “It can be changed in Brussels”. “We brought it up to this point and the epidemic started. At the beginning of the epidemic, the Greeks this time started to use the epidemic as an excuse and claimed that they brought the restrictions to the UN due to the pandemic. Whenever we attempt to complain during the epidemic, the UN tells us that the restrictions on the Greek side are linked to the epidemic. We follow closely, 'he said. We have come to another stage of the epidemic and openings are beginning. They did not transfer the non-EU citizens to Metehan, Derinya. We directed those people and passed them through the Beyarmudu border, which was under British control. As the initiatives begin, the Greek side should not be allowed to adversely affect our econom

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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by Brazen »

It doesn’t appear to be a bag of crap.

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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by zcacmxi »

Unsure how ROC can prevent "exit" from crossing into the North? Isn't this imprisonment? Or is Covid rates in different areas used to justify?

In any case, as the inconvenience and action is aimed at British, Russian & Isreali citizens, then it is also up to these citizens to return home and tell their representatives that they would like to fly to the North directly as they are prevented by the ROC from using the airport in the South?

How can ROC expect support from Britain, Russia, Isreal whilst at the same time imposing restrictions on citizens of these countries?

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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by waz-24-7 »

I'm afraid that the UK citizen will be a clear target given we are no longer in the EU and therefore without rights. There may be recourse through the courts via discrimination and human rights legislation.
Litigation in these matters could be very drawn out and who will want to either enter or indeed finance the fight.
I'm sure many will take a belligerent position and stick two fingers up. The loss is abundantly clear to me.

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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by Geoff1131 »

Oh heck i think we made a mistake voting to leave our friends in the EU. Waz was right, do you think they would let us back in if we say sorry?

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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by waz-24-7 »

Geoff1131 wrote:
Wed 24 Feb 2021 10:47 pm
Oh heck i think we made a mistake voting to leave our friends in the EU. Waz was right, do you think they would let us back in if we say sorry?
I don't think that will happen anytime soon. Perhaps in 20 yrs. We all make mistakes from time to time so I wouldn't stress too much.

On a positive note to offer some comfort. I believe manufacturing in the UK is picking up significantly on the back of vaccine roll out success Mostly it is for the internal market but it is positive. The UK is at the front of a recovery wave which is sweeping within its borders. Exports to the EU remain at risk and certainly I see lots of UK businesses opening up European hubs (European registered businesses) in order to maintain a flow of trade. That export of revenue is not good for the UK balance of payments.

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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by Hedge-fund »

wanderer wrote:
Wed 24 Feb 2021 8:07 pm
According to the written statement made by the HP Press Office,
Özersay stated that the Greek side has also prevented the British who want to cross from the South to the North by publishing a new document, “The United Kingdom is not a member of the EU, since the Greek side is out of the EU, as well as the citizens of Israel. "There has been a problem of banning the passage of tourists to our country through their regions." Noting that this is an unacceptable initiative lacking good intentions, Özersay continued as follows: “What needs to be done now is for the President and the Minister of Foreign Affairs to move as soon as possible against this move, which meant undermining tourism, as we did while in office. President of the Republic from time to time shows the teleconference talks by broadcasting on social media. He must express these in his contacts. Because the arrivals from the South is one of the lifeblood of the Turkish Cypriots. “WHICH PARTNERSHIP WILL BE CONSIDERED WITH THE GRAND WHO IS BORING OUR BOSPHORUS ABOUT TOURISM? Reminding that a political process is now approaching and that a five-way meeting will be held, Özersay said, "The future of the Cyprus problem, which has been spoken for 50 years, will be talked about" and said: “You are not going to squeeze my throat and let me breathe about the tourism that I breathe, so on such a vital issue, but am I going to sit down with you at the informal quintet meeting and talk about what kind of partnership I will establish? 'Let's solve them, let's move on to the situation before the epidemic about gates and passages. What partnership will we establish in this environment of insecurity, also if you have my throat about tourism? ' should be called. However, I haven't heard a voice or an attempt yet. "WE SOLVED SIMILAR CRISES IN THE PAST WITH OUR ATTEMPTS" HP President Özersay stated that, when he was the Minister of Foreign Affairs, they had similar crises regarding those who wanted to come to the South from Russia and Israel and cross to the North and that they solved the problems with the initiatives he made as minister. Özersay explained the process with the following words: “When it comes to Russian citizens coming from Moscow to our country as tourists via Larnaca, it was said that people cannot go to the North at the airport, we will send you from here if you go. They tried to tire a group of Russians who would come to our country as tourists with administrative procedures. As the Minister of Foreign Affairs, I immediately contacted the Ambassador of the Russian Federation in Southern Cyprus. We informed the Russians who were unaware that their citizens were humiliated and subjected to this treatment with the initiatives we made. We also took initiatives in New York. Because there are very effective Russian officials there, there are permanent representatives. The result is that this hurdle has been overcome. Then they made the same move regarding Israeli citizens. We contacted the Israeli representative, we mobilized them. "WHEN THE OPENINGS BEGIN, THE GRANDS SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO AFFECT OUR ECONOMY" Özersay stated that he made a lot of diplomatic initiatives on similar issues while he was the Minister of Foreign Affairs, but that the Greeks made a new move and prepared a new document to change the Green Line Regulation in practice, and said, “The Green Line Regulation is a European Union regulation and that regulation changes in Brussels. Since the Greeks knew that they could not do this there, the statute remained the same, but they tried to spoil it. "When the citizens of other third countries, who are not EU citizens, came to the South, they started to prevent them from entering the TRNC." They raised a lot of trouble after the Greek side's move; Özersay said that he wrote a letter to the UN Secretary General, to EU officials and that he made a teleconference with the UN Deputy Secretary General, and that the Greeks complained about this issue and that the Greeks postponed this practice due to the pressure. The EU Commission said, “You cannot change the Regulation on your own. However, Özersay stated that he made a statement as “It can be changed in Brussels”. “We brought it up to this point and the epidemic started. At the beginning of the epidemic, the Greeks this time started to use the epidemic as an excuse and claimed that they brought the restrictions to the UN due to the pandemic. Whenever we attempt to complain during the epidemic, the UN tells us that the restrictions on the Greek side are linked to the epidemic. We follow closely, 'he said. We have come to another stage of the epidemic and openings are beginning. They did not transfer the non-EU citizens to Metehan, Derinya. We directed those people and passed them through the Beyarmudu border, which was under British control. As the initiatives begin, the Greek side should not be allowed to adversely affect our econom

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Sounds like a North Cypriot nutjob but maybe it's just the lack of paragraphs giving me a headache.

I think we all know there will be posturing leading up to the 5+1 but the ROC will all UK citizens free access across the island at all times (covid permitting)

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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by Trigger »

Ercan it is then...

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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by Keithcaley »

Unsure how ROC can prevent "exit" from crossing into the North?

Easy...

All that they have to do is require that all arrivals at points of entry to ROC produce proof that they have booked and paid for accommodation in ROC for the duration of their stay.

This would not generally be viewed as an unreasonable measure (even though its intent would be blatantly obvious to us!) because many Countries have similar requirements.

I don't suppose that they would attempt to restrict the movement of EU Nationals, but they could certainly do it to UK Citizens.

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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by waddo »

Keith, Don’t think it’s the crossing into the North that would be the problem, it would be the crossing back into the South to get back on the aircraft that may pose difficulty. Of course you could always book a single ticket into the South and then fly back from the South I suppose. For myself, I would just ignore the South completely anyway and fly into Ercan, anything that reduces money going into the RoC is good by me!

I do wonder how the RoC will explain away their attitude toward Human Rights and the TRNC to the EU - lol.
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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by Reyntj »

Lgc have now just regurgitated the kibrisazette. I'm still sceptical about this I know ozersay has spoken but where is this document? is he referring to the one in the first post? Why have the Greek Cypriots made no official announcement . Last time was in 2019 there was a parliamentary vote and press release . Things don't add up to me without more information.

From 2019 https://kisa.org.cy/ministerial-amendme ... egulation/

Also from 2019 https://cyprus-mail.com/2019/11/29/akel ... rd-border/

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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by Trigger »

Reyntj wrote:
Thu 25 Feb 2021 1:23 pm
Lgc have now just regurgitated the kibrisazette. I'm still sceptical about this I know ozersay has spoken but where is this document? is he referring to the one in the first post? Why have the Greek Cypriots made no official announcement . Last time was in 2019 there was a parliamentary vote and press release . Things don't add up to me without more information.

From 2019 https://kisa.org.cy/ministerial-amendme ... egulation/

Also from 2019 https://cyprus-mail.com/2019/11/29/akel ... rd-border/
Why would they advertise to the rest of the world that they are stopping people from crossing a border / restricting freedom of movement based upon where a person is from? It’s the sort of behaviour expected from a dictatorship or insular state.

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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by Hedge-fund »

Pre 5+1 posturing on all sides.

Taking place in Geneva now at the end of April

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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by sultan78 »

There might be some truth in the article. I have just come across with this one:

https://www.lgcnews.com/problem-for-bri ... be-solved/

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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by waz-24-7 »

https://www.lgcnews.com/problem-for-bri ... be-solved/

Precisely why UK citizens living in or visiting the TRNC have forfeited more than most when it comes to "rights of passage within the EU" in particular the ROC.
I firmly believe that very few of the aforementioned gave this much serious consideration.

Its not the end of the world but if this attack, which I predicted would happen, does materialise then it represents a real game change position for almost all UK citizens wishing to visit Cyprus. It is great pity in my opinion.

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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by PoshinDevon »

waz-24-7 wrote:
Thu 25 Feb 2021 10:03 pm
https://www.lgcnews.com/problem-for-bri ... be-solved/

Precisely why UK citizens living in or visiting the TRNC have forfeited more than most when it comes to "rights of passage within the EU" in particular the ROC.
I firmly believe that very few of the aforementioned gave this much serious consideration.

Its not the end of the world but if this attack, which I predicted would happen, does materialise then it represents a real game change position for almost all UK citizens wishing to visit Cyprus. It is great pity in my opinion.
I admire the way you never give up on Brexit and again another subtle dig at those who voted to leave.

I can assure you I was well aware of the possibility of the ROC taking some sort of punitive action should the U.K. leave the EU. To be honest I fully expected it in some form or other. The ROC has form in making things difficult.

However it makes not one bit of difference to those of us who seriously love all the TRNC has to offer. Of course this could all just posturing but if this action is verified so be it.

The U.K. has left the EU and in the grand scheme of things this is is a minor sacrifice.
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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by Hedge-fund »

We forfeited nothing.

We voted to leave the eu and left.

We are therefore no longer in the eu.

What is so difficult to understand? We do not want or expect free movement throughout the eu.

The process of UK citizens crossing the greenline will no doubt be discussed before the 5+1 with the gcs attempting leverage. But unless you underestimate a guarantor power that happens to be a permanent member of the UN security council......you will know it will be sorted politically very swiftly.

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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by jofra »

Hedge-fund wrote:
Thu 25 Feb 2021 10:42 pm
The process of UK citizens crossing the greenline will no doubt be discussed before the 5+1 with the gcs attempting leverage. But unless you underestimate a guarantor power that happens to be a permanent member of the UN security council......you will know it will be sorted politically very swiftly.
...will possibly be discussed....
...a guarantor power... (meaning the UK?) - IF they are sufficiently concerned about a (relatively/in the real world) few ex-pats, regardless of whether OR NOT they are in an EU country?
Consider the concern re expats in USA, Dubai, Australasia, Thailand, anywhere...

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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by Hedge-fund »

jofra wrote:
Thu 25 Feb 2021 11:39 pm
Hedge-fund wrote:
Thu 25 Feb 2021 10:42 pm
The process of UK citizens crossing the greenline will no doubt be discussed before the 5+1 with the gcs attempting leverage. But unless you underestimate a guarantor power that happens to be a permanent member of the UN security council......you will know it will be sorted politically very swiftly.
...will possibly be discussed....
...a guarantor power... (meaning the UK?) - IF they are sufficiently concerned about a (relatively/in the real world) few ex-pats, regardless of whether OR NOT they are in an EU country?
Consider the concern re expats in USA, Dubai, Australasia, Thailand, anywhere...

The UK is an integral part of an ongoing political process in Cyprus.

As part of the build-up to the talks we will of course be discussing our interests.

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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by waz-24-7 »

PoshinDevon wrote:
Thu 25 Feb 2021 10:37 pm
waz-24-7 wrote:
Thu 25 Feb 2021 10:03 pm
https://www.lgcnews.com/problem-for-bri ... be-solved/

Precisely why UK citizens living in or visiting the TRNC have forfeited more than most when it comes to "rights of passage within the EU" in particular the ROC.
I firmly believe that very few of the aforementioned gave this much serious consideration.

Its not the end of the world but if this attack, which I predicted would happen, does materialise then it represents a real game change position for almost all UK citizens wishing to visit Cyprus. It is great pity in my opinion.
I admire the way you never give up on Brexit and again another subtle dig at those who voted to leave.

I can assure you I was well aware of the possibility of the ROC taking some sort of punitive action should the U.K. leave the EU. To be honest I fully expected it in some form or other. The ROC has form in making things difficult.

However it makes not one bit of difference to those of us who seriously love all the TRNC has to offer. Of course this could all just posturing but if this action is verified so be it.

The U.K. has left the EU and in the grand scheme of things this is is a minor sacrifice.
Hello Posh
Yes I an certain that you will have been aware that the ROC would capitalise on the departure of the UK. The ROC has for years one antagonised anyone supporting the TRNC or "occupied territories"
Punitive action,...Possibly. The now weakened position of UK ex pats on Cyprus however is no short term thing. It is for the foreseeable future and I suspect this action is only the beginning. Will The TRNC Administration be bothered or be able to counter...very unlikely.

I recollect a young local Turkish Cypriot neighbour departing for Nicosia to secure his FREE ISSUE ROC passport because he and his girlfriend were departing on a motorbike tour of Europe. The EU passport is the critical ticket for ease of passage. I could not and do not qualify why I was forced unwillingly to surrender mine!!

Certainly in the grand scheme of things for the UK mainland it is of very little consequence or interest. For those like you and I who clearly love visiting Cyprus. The weaker alien position without EU rights could lead to real difficulty in years to come.
That is the position that i accept. The case to eventually rejoin the Union … a new and refocussed Union is the longer goal.

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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by waz-24-7 »

Hedge-fund wrote:
Thu 25 Feb 2021 10:42 pm
We forfeited nothing.

We voted to leave the eu and left.

We are therefore no longer in the eu.

What is so difficult to understand? We do not want or expect free movement throughout the eu.

The process of UK citizens crossing the greenline will no doubt be discussed before the 5+1 with the gcs attempting leverage. But unless you underestimate a guarantor power that happens to be a permanent member of the UN security council......you will know it will be sorted politically very swiftly.
Hmmm
I think that you would find that the vast majority of UK mainland Brexit voters pay absolutely no regard to r potential loss of travel rights across the green line or are even familiar with the Cyprus problem.
This is why. I was absolutely amazed that people like you took the out position. Perhaps you are one that failed to read into the effects upon you and UK ex pats in The TRNC who
may occasionally want or need to go south. The Spanish and French ex pat community certainly identified losses.
Why not on Cyprus?
Unless of course there is a number that saw the writing on the wall but choose not to air views on this forum.

Would it not have been sensible to consider the localised outcome and effects rather than hope the UN can somehow restore some of our forfeited rights?

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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by waz-24-7 »

Hedge-fund wrote:
Fri 26 Feb 2021 1:34 am
jofra wrote:
Thu 25 Feb 2021 11:39 pm
Hedge-fund wrote:
Thu 25 Feb 2021 10:42 pm
The process of UK citizens crossing the greenline will no doubt be discussed before the 5+1 with the gcs attempting leverage. But unless you underestimate a guarantor power that happens to be a permanent member of the UN security council......you will know it will be sorted politically very swiftly.
...will possibly be discussed....
...a guarantor power... (meaning the UK?) - IF they are sufficiently concerned about a (relatively/in the real world) few ex-pats, regardless of whether OR NOT they are in an EU country?
Consider the concern re expats in USA, Dubai, Australasia, Thailand, anywhere...

The UK is an integral part of an ongoing political process in Cyprus.

As part of the build-up to the talks we will of course be discussing our interests.
Yes...We hope so. I'm not going to hold my breath. As long as the UK has its military bases on battleship Cyprus the UK EX pat community is and always has been.,,, chicken feed.

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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

waz-24-7 wrote:
Fri 26 Feb 2021 9:20 am


I recollect a young local Turkish Cypriot neighbour departing for Nicosia to secure his FREE ISSUE ROC passport because he and his girlfriend were departing on a motorbike tour of Europe. The EU passport is the critical ticket for ease of passage. I could not and do not qualify why I was forced unwillingly to surrender mine!!
The ROC passport won't be free. It might not cost anything at point of issue but it will be paid for somewhere down the line, more than likely by taxes.
Are you saying they couldn't travel across EU countries without an EU passport?

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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by CPFC »

I get that this will be an inconvenience as we have for the last 10 years used EasyJet into Larnaca and got a taxi across the border - however the flight departure times have always been awful and means arriving back at Gatwick in the early hours so by going though Ercan we at least will have some better flight departure times to utilise. I expect that using Ercan will add another 2 hours overall to the trip so not great but it is not a deal breaker for us.

This will certainly hit the pockets of the taxi drivers...

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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by erol »

Trigger wrote:
Thu 25 Feb 2021 2:21 pm
Why would they advertise to the rest of the world that they are stopping people from crossing a border / restricting freedom of movement based upon where a person is from? It’s the sort of behaviour expected from a dictatorship or insular state.
Personally I can not think of a country in the world that does not limit and control who can enter the country for tourism, work or residency and largely based on where the person is from, what their own citizenship is ?

I know of many countries where the issue of 'taking (back) control of boarders' is a big political issue / slogan but that does not seem to get characterised normally as the behaviour of a dictatorship as far as I can see ?

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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by PoshinDevon »

erol wrote:
Fri 26 Feb 2021 1:16 pm
Trigger wrote:
Thu 25 Feb 2021 2:21 pm
Why would they advertise to the rest of the world that they are stopping people from crossing a border / restricting freedom of movement based upon where a person is from? It’s the sort of behaviour expected from a dictatorship or insular state.
Personally I can not think of a country in the world that does not limit and control who can enter the country for tourism, work or residency and largely based on where the person is from, what their own citizenship is ?

I know of many countries where the issue of 'taking (back) control of boarders' is a big political issue / slogan but that does not seem to get characterised normally as the behaviour of a dictatorship as far as I can see ?
Erol,

I agree that countries do rightly control who can enter etc..... but this is a little different I think. It’s about not only entering the ROC but is it not also about being allowed to leave the ROC to cross to the TRNC? Then of course leave the TRNC and cross into the ROC? I am not convinced it is as simplistic as you are making out.

I think this has an element of the ROC being awkward and difficult which is something they have done often, putting pressure on the TRNC and a fair degree of political posturing in advance of talks.

As with many things Cyprus, it’s complicated.
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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by erol »

Well is just seems to me you either believe in the notion that sovereign nations should be free to unilaterally chose who they let in and let pass through their country and under what terms, or you do not. Calling it dictatorship when some 'other' country does it but not seeing it as such when you advocate your own country should do it or do more of it, seems a little inconsistent to me.

Why would the RoC not put pressure on what it and the rest of the world regards as a secessionist state created by force of arms ? This is not arguing the 'justice' of that reality by the way, just accepting it. It is a sovereign state.

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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by PoshinDevon »

erol wrote:
Fri 26 Feb 2021 3:24 pm
Well is just seems to me you either believe in the notion that sovereign nations should be free to unilaterally chose who they let in and let pass through their country and under what terms, or you do not. Calling it dictatorship when some 'other' country does it but not seeing it as such when you advocate your own country should do it or do more of it, seems a little inconsistent to me.

Why would the RoC not put pressure on what it and the rest of the world regards as a secessionist state created by force of arms ? This is not arguing the 'justice' of that reality by the way, just accepting it. It is a sovereign state.
Erol... I never mentioned dictatorship? I also said that I agree that countries should control who enters.... you never mentioned passing thro? Hence I was somewhat confused by what you had written and to me it seemed very simplistic.

My view is that firstly since the original post of a few days ago I have still not read or seen anything from a verified source to confirm the ROC proposed actions. Also I think we can all agree that the ROC over the last 40 years has not been slow in taking the opportunity every so often to make things “difficult” with regards to crossing the border. So at present I think much of what is being said is very much political puffing out of chests prior to forthcoming talks. It happens all the time.
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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by Trigger »

erol wrote:
Fri 26 Feb 2021 1:16 pm
Trigger wrote:
Thu 25 Feb 2021 2:21 pm
Why would they advertise to the rest of the world that they are stopping people from crossing a border / restricting freedom of movement based upon where a person is from? It’s the sort of behaviour expected from a dictatorship or insular state.
Personally I can not think of a country in the world that does not limit and control who can enter the country for tourism, work or residency and largely based on where the person is from, what their own citizenship is ?

I know of many countries where the issue of 'taking (back) control of boarders' is a big political issue / slogan but that does not seem to get characterised normally as the behaviour of a dictatorship as far as I can see ?
I think you need to replace the words ‘limit and control’ with the word ‘stop’. Quite a difference in my honest opinion. I can understand restricting residency but to not allow tourists puts the country on the same level as dictatorship and insular states in my opinion.

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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

On the positive side of controlling borders at least we saw some common sense regarding Shamima Begum today 😀

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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by waz-24-7 »

Controlling of the borders is not,in my opinion, the matter of concern.
There has always been a level of this as Erol says. On Cyprus, a somewhat and unfortunate dysfunctional divided Island, local nationalistic attitudes and hatreds run deep.
The travelling issue is a result of the ROC desire to inflict damage to anything or anyone TRNC.
The UK has forfeited its European status. The ROC sees this as an opportunity to antagonise those non European aliens that support the "northern occupied territory "

Cyprus is Cyprus. The Division. borders and vastly differing aspirations of Cypriot factions leaves the island on one hand attractively secluded and on the others a divided island fuelled by long standing distrust and hatred.
How things pan out in years to come is anyone's guess but I as a UK citizen do not feel I'm in a position of strength particularly if I enter the ROC.

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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by waz-24-7 »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Fri 26 Feb 2021 11:16 am
waz-24-7 wrote:
Fri 26 Feb 2021 9:20 am


I recollect a young local Turkish Cypriot neighbour departing for Nicosia to secure his FREE ISSUE ROC passport because he and his girlfriend were departing on a motorbike tour of Europe. The EU passport is the critical ticket for ease of passage. I could not and do not qualify why I was forced unwillingly to surrender mine!!
The ROC passport won't be free. It might not cost anything at point of issue but it will be paid for somewhere down the line, more than likely by taxes.
Are you saying they couldn't travel across EU countries without an EU passport?
The ROC passport to most TC's is simply a ticket of entry and travel within Europe. Why do most take up the ROC offer? Because its easy and the freedoms and privileges that come with the EU passport are deemed highly valuable.
They are not in the least concerned of EU governance.

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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by zcacmxi »

Irrespective of anything else, the actions and policies of the ROC will hinder the movement of British citizens compared to EU citizens.

UK should protest to ROC government and take action.

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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

waz-24-7 wrote:
Fri 26 Feb 2021 8:27 pm

The ROC passport to most TC's is simply a ticket of entry and travel within Europe. Why do most take up the ROC offer? Because its easy and the freedoms and privileges that come with the EU passport are deemed highly valuable.
They are not in the least concerned of EU governance.
If I was offered a free TRNC passport I’d take one, why not who doesn’t like free stuff that might come in handy?

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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by waz-24-7 »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Fri 26 Feb 2021 9:05 pm
waz-24-7 wrote:
Fri 26 Feb 2021 8:27 pm

The ROC passport to most TC's is simply a ticket of entry and travel within Europe. Why do most take up the ROC offer? Because its easy and the freedoms and privileges that come with the EU passport are deemed highly valuable.
They are not in the least concerned of EU governance.
If I was offered a free TRNC passport I’d take one, why not who doesn’t like free stuff that might come in handy?

Me too certainly. The more passports the better and easier travel becomes.
However.
The free issuance of ROC passports to Tc's is a politically motivated strategy to undermine the TRNC administration.
The TRNC and Turkish Governors are surely not at all pleased.

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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by erol »

PoshinDevon wrote:
Fri 26 Feb 2021 3:54 pm
Erol... I never mentioned dictatorship?
And my post was entirely in reaction to a post made that did mention dictatorship, quoted it and is the context within which it should be understood.
Trigger wrote:
Fri 26 Feb 2021 5:27 pm
I think you need to replace the words ‘limit and control’ with the word ‘stop’. Quite a difference in my honest opinion. I can understand restricting residency but to not allow tourists puts the country on the same level as dictatorship and insular states in my opinion.
When I was a kid in the mid to late late 70's or so My TC Cypriot first cousin , must have been aged about 20 then, came to visit us in the UK. As a tourist. He was taken directly from Heathrow airport to a detention centre and held their until my father was able to go there and sign guarantees and he was finally allowed to enter the UK as a tourist. He had committed no crimes. Had his passport been from the right places and not Turkey this would not have happened, Sovereign states have always stopped people from crossing their borders , restricted their freedom of movement within their boarders and across them. The UK included. Still does. They all still do. If doing that is dictatorship then all sovereign states are dictator states.

I am not here to argue. In my opinion and the way I see things there are glaring inconsistencies in what you said. I have tried to explain why I think that. Take it or leave it as you like.

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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by erol »

waz-24-7 wrote:
Fri 26 Feb 2021 8:27 pm
The ROC passport to most TC's is simply.....
Always cause to be suspicious any time someone starts talking about what 'most' people in a group think or believe, in my book. More so when the person doing that is not even a member of that group themselves.

RoC passports are the right of every person the sovereign state of the RoC claims to be the sole legitimate government of in Cyprus. Why some TC that have such a right as per the constitution and laws of the sovereign state of the RoC chose to take up such passports, or not take them up, are wide and varied and multiple. That's the reality I see.

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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by PoshinDevon »

erol wrote:
Fri 26 Feb 2021 9:48 pm
PoshinDevon wrote:
Fri 26 Feb 2021 3:54 pm
Erol... I never mentioned dictatorship?
And my post was entirely in reaction to a post made that did mention dictatorship, quoted it and is the context within which it should be understood.
Trigger wrote:
Fri 26 Feb 2021 5:27 pm
I think you need to replace the words ‘limit and control’ with the word ‘stop’. Quite a difference in my honest opinion. I can understand restricting residency but to not allow tourists puts the country on the same level as dictatorship and insular states in my opinion.
When I was a kid in the mid to late late 70's or so My TC Cypriot first cousin , must have been aged about 20 then, came to visit us in the UK. As a tourist. He was taken directly from Heathrow airport to a detention centre and held their until my father was able to go there and sign guarantees and he was finally allowed to enter the UK as a tourist. He had committed no crimes. Had his passport been from the right places and not Turkey this would not have happened, Sovereign states have always stopped people from crossing their borders , restricted their freedom of movement within their boarders and across them. The UK included. Still does. They all still do. If doing that is dictatorship then all sovereign states are dictator states.

I am not here to argue. In my opinion and the way I see things there are glaring inconsistencies in what you said. I have tried to explain why I think that. Take it or leave it as you like.
Sorry Erol but your response had my post quoted and I never mentioned dictatorship. They way you have quoted and responded makes it difficult to follow who you are replying to.

Hopefully I have made my views clear.
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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by Hedge-fund »

waz-24-7 wrote:
Fri 26 Feb 2021 8:18 pm

The UK has forfeited its European status.

2nd time you've said this so it obviously was not a slip of the tongue.

The UK has forfeited nothing. As a result of a democratic vote the UK left the eu.

To forfeit is to be deprived of something as a penalty for wrongdoing.

To leave is to depart from permanently.

We voted to leave and we have left.

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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by PoshinDevon »

Hedge-fund wrote:
Fri 26 Feb 2021 11:28 pm
waz-24-7 wrote:
Fri 26 Feb 2021 8:18 pm

The UK has forfeited its European status.

2nd time you've said this so it obviously was not a slip of the tongue.

The UK has forfeited nothing. As a result of a democratic vote the UK left the eu.

To forfeit is to be deprived of something as a penalty for wrongdoing.

To leave is to depart from permanently.

We voted to leave and we have left.
Is the correct answer.

FORFEIT
verb
lose or be deprived of (property or a right or privilege) as a penalty for wrongdoing.
"those unable to meet their taxes were liable to forfeit their estates"

Waz however will always play the “those that voted leave were stupid and did not know what they were voting for” card.
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Re: Bad news re travelling to or from South

Post by kerry 6138 »

I wonder if the Mr & Mrs Oram voted leave?

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