If the UK leaves the EU.

[kaiserphil]

That's interesting. Surely he said the opposite the other day?

Was he bought off, or what?

[kaiserphil]

My mistake! It was Mervyn King, a former Governor.

[RAZR63]

Britons who retire to Europe could have their state pensions reduced by £50,000 over 20 years if the UK votes to leave the European Union in next month’s referendum ..... read Telegraph article here : http://goo.gl/xDgkka

[waz-24-7]

RAZR63
Thank you for the post and information.
Possibly will effect ex pat pensioners but I fear the point will not be a massive vote winner in the final vote.
It would appear that the matter has not been brought to light until the telegraph and your good self highlighted it.

[waddo]

RAZ, its been coming for some time, more proof that the UK Government never have nor never will care about British citizens who live overseas - still won't stop me voting IN because IN or OUT they will just do the same thing. On the bright side for me "Personally and before I get called Jack again", if they do freeze the state pension it will help because every time I get the fantastic rise of £4.11 per month it cuts into my income tax personal allowance and actually costs me more - lol. UK votes OUT, sterling drops by 20/25% then pensions loose that amount of purchase power anyway - OUT vote is a double whammy for all ex pats on State Pensions.

[Dalartokat]

RAZ, its been coming for some time, more proof that the UK Government never have nor never will care about British citizens who live overseas - still won't stop me voting IN because IN or OUT they will just do the same thing. On the bright side for me "Personally and before I get called Jack again", if they do freeze the state pension it will help because every time I get the fantastic rise of £4.11 per month it cuts into my income tax personal allowance and actually costs me more - lol. UK votes OUT, sterling drops by 20/25% then pensions loose that amount of purchase power anyway - OUT vote is a double whammy for all ex pats on State Pensions.

Do you mean per year for State Pension?

[waz-24-7]

Given the case that pensioners that live as Ex pats offshore are destined to loose benefits with an OUT vote ( as per the telegraph article above) and of course the fact that the accustomed freedoms of travel will be effected as European status is forfeited. I am very surprised indeed that most UK Ex pats in TRNC are opting for the OUT vote.
I understand that ex pats in Spain have seen the light and read the facts on pensions and freedoms and a pole there is reflecting an IN vote. This may because they still reside within the Union. The TRNC not being recognised as part of the EU may have bearing. Furthermore, how many indigenous Turkish Cypriots have gone south just to collect a European passport. Clearly these people recognise the strength of a European passport. 75% plus I estimate have ROC passports.

[turtle]

It's amazing how many times the word "Could" is used in these articles ?

[turtle]

I notice the Poll is still 75/25 is anyone else going to vote ?

[waddo]

Dalartokat, sorry for being lat, I was being doing "meaningful" things instead. No, I meant a rise of £4.11 per month. Waz, I think most people are so fed up with flashy, catch phrases and constant pressure to follow the lemmings over the cliff into the unknown that they just have lost interest in giving either a vote on a poll or even an opinion. I would think that most pensioners who live abroad on a permanent basis already have their personal future planned out anyway - they understand that they don't count and are basically unwanted by their mother country, so have had to secure their lives themselves and attempt to provide the maximum security for themselves that they can. Those who live in the EU already know they are in peril of the consequences of an OUT vote but having seen the way the government breaks its promises to allow them to vote anyway - why bother with a poll? Of course those who have a foot in both countries will follow the majority anyway, nothing to loose they think. Time will tell - its a bit like football - its not over, till its over!

[waz-24-7]

Waddo,
I am inclined to agree with your analysis regarding Ex pat UK pension recipients.
I do however struggle somewhat with the blasé attitude of many that clearly, in my view, have little real understanding of how the world has changed since they last worked in or were involved within the UK economy. The critical decisions that are forthcoming must be best for the UK and its forward prosperity. Certainly NOT the lets be great again brigade or the leadership bashers with no plausible alternatives.

[waddo]

Waz, I don't think it is a blasé attitude on the whole. I think instead that once you are a few years past the magic 65 and the date you used to be able to get your OAP that you have lived long enough to realize that your years left are somewhat numbered - not being morbid about this just being logical and facing up to reality - you have also worked for many years and discovered that the "Golden Years" of your retirement safe in the hands of your Government, are just wishful thinking unless you take action on your own!

In essence, you have lost trust in anything but your own judgement and tend to keep your future plans close to your chest, in case somebody out there pressures you to change them. You see, in your "Golden Years" you are now to old to start all over again and must give up many things in case one bad decision on your part forces you out on the streets, or best case looking for a job pushing trolleys at the supermarket. Nobody will admit this of course because we all want to be seen as young, trustworthy, forceful and able to "take it on the chin" in any situation - actually the only people who can do those things are still teenagers and have the time to recover from mistakes - or those with the golden spoon who can afford to drop a million or two - normal retired working people can not do that!
Age is a strange thing and unless you are "That" age it is almost beyond understanding - so I give the majority of people a "By" on the polling and replies to IN/OUT discussions - they have worries enough to start with!
Therefore you are right in - "in my view, have little real understanding of how the world has changed since they last worked in or were involved within the UK economy" but wide of the mark in - "The critical decisions that are forthcoming must be best for the UK and its forward prosperity" because they have little time left to see any forward prosperity anyway.
Just personal opinion and as we all know - opinions are like ars****es, everyone has one - lol.

[waz-24-7]

Waddo
Agreed.
Is it not the case that many ex pats in TRNC have family back in the UK. Many will certainly work in the private sector which is the earning part of the economy. Many will work directly or indirectly for businesses that are foreign investors seeking the current advantages of a UK manufacturing base.
The BREXIT will change the playing field immensely for winning and securing critical offshore investment. Whilst I do not profess to be leader of a country. I have 1st hand experience of large multi national businesses who export to Europe. Almost all are reviewing strategy and investment plans should the path into Europe from a UK base be in anyway hindered. This is fact and I have no real case to make to convince them otherwise.
My own estimate, not a guess, is that 600,000 UK workers will not be in a position to change things once the bridge is up. Business will move anywhere to secure commercial advantage. The BREXIT offers no advantages to investment in trade, industry or commerce. It is really quite simple.

[waddo]

Waz, I agree with you completely. I have two married daughters in the UK and either them or their partners have great concern over what they see as the blind drop that BREXIT is offering the country. I try not to push or pull them in any direction for the vote as it is their lives and they must live with them but they are constantly questioning what I feel will happen to jobs and finance if the country leaves the EU. What can I say to them? To be fair all I can do is tell them to listen to both sides, try to find a time when the OUT band have mentioned anything good about the EU and also when the IN side have said anything bad about the EU - then make your own choice, its your lives that are at stake, mine is nearly spent!
Personally I think that BREXIT is a jump in the dark and a very dangerous thing to do - but then I am old!!!! What would I have to back up a statement like that apart from 69 years of experience in life?

[waz-24-7]

Waddo,
I believe that the younger generation.Ambitious, hungry and looking for their own path to prosperity should be in the driving seat on the BREXIT decision. These young people have no real desire to look backwards to the "GREAT BRITAIN" of old. My own 2 daughters 17 and 19 are destined to take over a multi million pound international business. They too are fearful of what the future holds. I stress that what will be will be. Our strategy and cloth will be cut accordingly and we will strive to grow prosper and be successful. The UK will survive but, like all.,I want the very best for my children, my dedicated workforce and for the UK in General.

[WotNoDeeds]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... rexit.html

[waddo]

What a nice poster - it assumes that all British are ANTI-EU and we all know that to assume makes an ass out of U and ME. Keep your posters correct or stop using them.

[waz-24-7]

WotNoDeeds
Who is Tim Stanley? Hopefully not the next Prime Minister. ( ref telegraph quote)

Again Nice graphics.. How about some substance behind it.
I assure you. I too believe in Britain and I believe we should remain IN
Sorry no glossy graphics. Discussion, debate, and reasoned thinking should prevail.

[jofra]

One subject that appears fairly often suggesting support for leaving - immigrants from the EU...
Last night, a couple of "Brexit" supporters in Blackpool pointing out how they take jobs from British people....
Tonight, a Northwest farmer pointing out that he has to rely on EU immigrants to work for him....
Are the EU immigrants "taking" jobs the British people are not willing/prepared to do, because "it's beneath them" or "I'm not doing that for that money"....
Consider the 50s and 60's, when so many West Indian people came to do the ("menial") jobs (railways, hospitals, etc) that British people were not prepared to dirty their hands with.....
IMO, EU immigrants will only be able to "take the jobs" that British people will let them, by virtue of being too proud/arrogant to pick up a brush, dirty their hands etc - I've been an auditor, and later I also pushed a brush and cleaned toilets....
My "pride" ensured that I would take any honest job....

[waz-24-7]

Jofra
Very good point.
The myth that immigrants work for lower wages is indeed a myth. The work ethic of almost all immigrants cannot be faulted. The work ethic of SOME UK people cannot be faulted. The difference, having spoken with and employed both. In middle Europe the fact is. NO work NO food. Social welfare is non existent. The other myth is that immigrant come to the UK simply to sign on to the benefits gravy train. NOT true from my experience. Immigration is a benefit to the UK economy creating hundreds of millions of £,s into the economy and into tax collections. The average UK citizen benefits. To close the door on Europe is not a progressive move and represent a decline in the UK economy.
UK citizens must and do compete for work, trade and prosperity.

[Dalartokat]

For those interested, Jeremy Paxman on BBC goes to Brussels talking about EU Referendum with various people regarding who really rules us..



http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... y-rules-us

[kaiserphil]

For those interested, Jeremy Paxman on BBC goes to Brussels talking about EU Referendum with various people regarding who really rules us..



http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... y-rules-us

Just tried the link in Germany. No access outside the UK, sadly.

[Dalartokat]

That's a shame Kaiserphil, perhaps someone might be able to help, what about You Tube, usually ends up on there.

[turtle]

Try this..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pGOzhhOAF8

[waz-24-7]

Turtle
Thank you for the link.
Mr Paxman's presentation dwells too much on primarily directives that relate to bananas, and cucumbers. His early on micky taking and tongue in cheek criticisms will appeal to the pessimistic. He offers nothing in the way of alternatives but that is not his brief, In the last 20 minutes or so the real effects of leaving are given air time and this is far more informative. Certainly the Open University link is very well presented and very factual. Clearly the case for IN prevails based on the economic case which outweighs the pedantics of bananas and oven gloves.

[turtle]

Paxman I thought gave an honest presentation of just a fraction of how the EU works or dosen't ?
He interviewed a cross section of in, out, old, young male and female so what is your beef about a couple of lighthearted quips, you have criticized every link put up so far but only peddled fear and doom yourself.

[waz-24-7]

Turtle
I have passed comment upon the presentation. I thought it was neither very good or indeed bad. I endeavour to present clear supported facts on why I believe an IN vote is better for the UK. Fear and doom if you interpret fact as so. I fear it is your own critical view of our government, the EU, people of substance in strategic and important world roles that peddles the doom. I would like to ask you to present some solutions to your messages of doom or even once again present some ideas as to how the UK will prosper if we vote OUT.