Immigration Office

MikeK · Post by **MikeK** » Mon 28 Oct 2019 9:56 am

Has anybody been to renew their over 60's residncey at the immigration office successfully after 23rd October. If so what paperwork, forms stamps etc were required? Was a visit to the police station required beforehand?

Many thanks

Deniz1 · Post by **Deniz1** » Mon 28 Oct 2019 12:44 pm

I understand its the police first. I wonder if the white kimlik card requirements changed with the new law too.

Mr Chinnery · Post by **Mr Chinnery** » Mon 28 Oct 2019 12:58 pm

Mikek,
I understand it to be that if you already have residency/visitor stamp in place ie 2 year over sixty, you renew online no more than sixty days before and no less than twenty days before expiry.

The police station bit is I think for persons who are applying fo the first time.

Deniz1 · Post by **Deniz1** » Tue 29 Oct 2019 5:58 am

Thats a laugh on line site doesnt work

Medjoul1 · Post by **Medjoul1** » Tue 29 Oct 2019 6:31 am

Hi MikeK,

On the 23rd I was told by immigration at Lefkosa to go with my documentation to Girne police for temp. residency permit. I am over 60 and have had temp. residency for two years. Girne police did not have the forms to complete at that stage and since then I understand that some of the ruling has changed (Health tests for over 60's, first and subsequent times).

I will wait a couple of weeks when hopefully it will have settled down and have another go.I can imagine the police can't be too happy about the situation either.

MikeK · Post by **MikeK** » Tue 29 Oct 2019 7:30 am

Thanks for the responses, How can something as important as this be such a shambles?

Ayala66 · Post by **Ayala66** » Tue 29 Oct 2019 8:29 am

Is the police station the first port of call for residency done manually and not online. My residency lapsed three years ago. Does this make any difference.

Mr Chinnery · Post by **Mr Chinnery** » Tue 29 Oct 2019 8:48 am

Ayala,
On Saturday 26th October under the post ‘online residency’ I replied to your same question.

Keithcaley · Post by **Keithcaley** » Tue 29 Oct 2019 8:51 am

As far as we can tell if you are over 60 and previously had 'residence' then go straight to Lefkoşa.

Chriswright03 · Post by **Chriswright03** » Tue 29 Oct 2019 9:09 am

Even on the FB groups that thankfully some kind locals with legal expertise are helping out there is constant confusion in part caused by (well meaning) people posting what they believe is the truth. Some are still posting that over 60's have to have blood tests. Some are posting that you go to Lefkosia instead of Girne if you live here and as ever the same questions being posted time and time again despite the fact that it has been asked countless times before and answered in full.

Confusion still reigns. I shall stick it out for a week or two and see what happens when the dust settles.

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Tue 29 Oct 2019 10:16 am

Tomorrow (30th Oct) is my wife's 65th birthday! I am over 70 years of age. We both live in rented accommodation and hold certified rental agreements. We have both completed temporary residency since our arrival in the TRNC in 2007 and have never missed a single residency renewal. My wife left the island two years ago for a period of 10 days to visit her brother, who subsequently died of lung cancer. I have never left the island since my arrival in 2007. We both have temp residency stamps in our passports valid until Sept 2020.

As we understand the new laws, I have to register and apply for Temp Residency not earlier than 60 days before and not later than 20 days after our current residency expires. Once I have been granted Temp Residency, my wife can then apply for a Family Residence permit as she is not able to apply for the same type of Temp Residency as myself, I will be her sponsor for the purpose of her application! Until that period of time arrives we have to do nothing at all.

Tomorrow, it is our intention to go to the RoC via the Metahan crossing point and return via the same crossing point. I will post on this thread what happens and what I am told, if anything. Hope this will help, but as today is a public holiday, it might be that the updates to the new laws will not yet have reached the points (crossing points) where they are supposed to be implemented so everything may still be in a state of flux!

Mr Chinnery · Post by **Mr Chinnery** » Tue 29 Oct 2019 10:21 am

Chriswright,
FB post and locals with legal expertise, really?

The Government have published a document which is available to read and copy online, that’s what I prefer to take note of.

Page six explains the procedure.

If you don’t have residency you go to the police district in your area and start there.

If someone has had residency before but not renewed for a number of years they do not have residency at this moment in time, therefore go to the Police first. If the police send that person to Immigration so be it, but I would take a copy of the rules and point what it says to the officers at the police station.

A person either has residency or they don’t.

Mr Chinnery · Post by **Mr Chinnery** » Tue 29 Oct 2019 10:25 am

Keith Caley,
Re your message nine, where is it written down that that is what you do.

lilnrob · Post by **lilnrob** » Tue 29 Oct 2019 10:27 am

Waddo

I was under the impression that it was only if you owned property that you applied for residency then your wife would get a family residency. I don't think this applies to renters. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Lil

Chriswright03 · Post by **Chriswright03** » Tue 29 Oct 2019 10:35 am

Mr Chinnery wrote:Chriswright,
FB post and locals with legal expertise, really?

The Government have published a document which is available to read and copy online, that’s what I prefer to take note of.

Page six explains the procedure.

If you don’t have residency you go to the police district in your area and start there.

If someone has had residency before but not renewed for a number of years they do not have residency at this moment in time, therefore go to the Police first. If the police send that person to Immigration so be it, but I would take a copy of the rules and point what it says to the officers at the police station.

A person either has residency or they don’t.

Mr Chinnery Whilst I would certainly agree with you about 'experts' on facebook normally on this occasion one of those posting one of these is a Uğur Çulhaoğlu who informs us that "I am the lawyer of the Ministry of Interior". Now I would have expected him to know a bit more about it than the average keyboard warrior. Another one was from a firm of Solicitors who is offering to answer all questions with his team in an effort to calm things a little.

Now obviously any advice given would be checked by me with the Immigration office if need be when I attend rather than me just take it as read. Fact remains that the document from the Government on line is not that easy to understand for the majority of us mere mortals and some clarification is obviously needed judging by the amount of scaremongering stories on here and on facebook.

kerry 6138 · Post by **kerry 6138** » Tue 29 Oct 2019 10:49 am

waddo wrote:Tomorrow (30th Oct) is my wife's 65th birthday! I am over 70 years of age. We both live in rented accommodation and hold certified rental agreements. We have both completed temporary residency since our arrival in the TRNC in 2007 and have never missed a single residency renewal. My wife left the island two years ago for a period of 10 days to visit her brother, who subsequently died of lung cancer. I have never left the island since my arrival in 2007. We both have temp residency stamps in our passports valid until Sept 2020.

As we understand the new laws, I have to register and apply for Temp Residency not earlier than 60 days before and not later than 20 days after our current residency expires. Once I have been granted Temp Residency, my wife can then apply for a Family Residence permit as she is not able to apply for the same type of Temp Residency as myself, I will be her sponsor for the purpose of her application! Until that period of time arrives we have to do nothing at all.

Tomorrow, it is our intention to go to the RoC via the Metahan crossing point and return via the same crossing point. I will post on this thread what happens and what I am told, if anything. Hope this will help, but as today is a public holiday, it might be that the updates to the new laws will not yet have reached the points (crossing points) where they are supposed to be implemented so everything may still be in a state of flux!

That is also my understanding of the process (renting or owning property)

kerry 6138 · Post by **kerry 6138** » Tue 29 Oct 2019 11:00 am

https://cyprusscene.com/2019/10/26/brit ... gulations/

PLEASE REMEMBER THAT THE PREVIOUS ‘PAPER’ SYSTEM WAS DIFFERENT IF YOU WERE OVER 60 YEARS OF AGE. THIS IS NO LONGER THE CASE AND REVERTS TO THE ORIGINAL SYSTEM STARTING AT THE POLICE STATION. PLEASE REFER TO THE WEBSITE FOR THIS INFORMATION.

The Government has come under intense pressure from all Communities regarding the ‘upper age’ at which you do not need to renew residency.
Members who currently have Residency will not be required to register on the NEW system until the current document expires.

Mr Chinnery · Post by **Mr Chinnery** » Tue 29 Oct 2019 11:32 am

Chriswright,
You say the document online is not that easy to understand, but that document is the legislation at this moment in time.

A solicitor can only advise in relation to that document.

Yes some people will find it difficult to understand in relation to their personal circumstances but others won’t and are quite happy to advise as they see fit , solicitors included. If they advise , the person advising should be able to back it up as to why they have come to that conclusion.

puppylover · Post by **puppylover** » Tue 29 Oct 2019 12:07 pm

For anyone interested this is a comment I made on Sunday on a friends fb timeline in regards to a discussion on the new residency rules......

*****All very confusing and too many people appear to be giving misleading information by the sounds of it. I am neither a member of the BRS or the group where lots of expats are posting. The group was bought to my attention and I have now read all of the posts and agree with you that people need to wait and see what the Ministry officially announces in due course. I personally find it a bit concerning that firstly a solicitor is giving information, inviting members on said group to friends request the company, not answering questions put to them on their own page and then one of the admin advertising on the page that members can make an appointment regarding the new regulations for £10 for a 1/2 hour consultancy with this company. Then a solicitor who states he works for the Ministry starts answering members questions (I have to question if he was authorized to do so by officials), then another solicitor joins and states "be careful of taking advice from solicitors as they may not be giving correct advise!!)...slightly worrying. Are these people fully up to speed with the full details of the new rules as in yesterday's Cyprus Today, the Prime Ministry's Legal and Political Affairs director said that she was fully aware of the chaos and that they are working to resolve issues"*******

My personal opinion is that we all need to take a step back and wait for further "official" updates as it is common knowledge that the Ministry are aware of concerns and have stated that they will be looking into some of the issues raised by concerned expats.

Chriswright03 · Post by **Chriswright03** » Tue 29 Oct 2019 12:26 pm

Mr Chinnery wrote:Chriswright,
You say the document online is not that easy to understand, but that document is the legislation at this moment in time.

A solicitor can only advise in relation to that document.

Yes some people will find it difficult to understand in relation to their personal circumstances but others won’t and are quite happy to advise as they see fit , solicitors included. If they advise , the person advising should be able to back it up as to why they have come to that conclusion.

Again I agree with you. I am just saying no matter what the legal document says there is a lot of confusion about what is going on and it does no harm to take that back to it's basics in a manner that makes it universally understandable. As it stands at the moment it would appear that many are confused and are asking for simple explanations.

As an example I have yet to find anywhere a definitive list of what you need for your application. I have seen various things mentioned in various places but as yet have not seen a clear list that I can be certain of what I need and don't need. Talk of two id photographs in one place four in another. Talk of copies of birth certificates in one but not another. There are more but I am sure you must get the gist.

Even if you read the regulations that explain it all I don't see a simple check off list that would make it far easier for all concerned.

Don't get me wrong I have no problem whatsoever with the new regulations and the reason for them. I will get myself into the Police Station very soon and do whatever is required but whilst there is still talk of the regulations being changed already (there has been) I think a little wait to see what happens is in order.

kerry 6138 · Post by **kerry 6138** » Tue 29 Oct 2019 12:31 pm

Mr Chinnery wrote:Chriswright,
You say the document online is not that easy to understand, but that document is the legislation at this moment in time.

A solicitor can only advise in relation to that document.

Yes some people will find it difficult to understand in relation to their personal circumstances but others won’t and are quite happy to advise as they see fit , solicitors included. If they advise , the person advising should be able to back it up as to why they have come to that conclusion.

Although the document I downloaded from the website states 3 and 5 years min wage for funding, which was quickly out of date.

JoandJelly · Post by **JoandJelly** » Tue 29 Oct 2019 7:41 pm

lilnrob wrote:Waddo

I was under the impression that it was only if you owned property that you applied for residency then your wife would get a family residency. I don't think this applies to renters. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Lil

From what I have read it is the same for renters as owners except that renters will need to show 3 x minimum wage vs 1 x minimum wage for owners.

JoandJelly · Post by **JoandJelly** » Tue 29 Oct 2019 7:44 pm

Chriswright the lawyer from the Interior ministry has said in his replies to questions that he will be advising what documents are required for the different types of permit.

Chriswright03 · Post by **Chriswright03** » Wed 30 Oct 2019 6:55 am

JoandJelly wrote:Chriswright the lawyer from the Interior ministry has said in his replies to questions that he will be advising what documents are required for the different types of permit.

Thanks for that JoanandJelly. I keep reading what he has put on there but as usual with facebook sometimes it doesn't put up all of the posts. One of the things I have seen mentioned is copies of birth certificates. Well that would entail a trip back to the UK to get that but I 'think' we have all the other stuff like marriage certificates. Just need to find out now where in Girne we can get the photos done as we have rune out of them with all the other stuff like driving licence applications.

come_on_aylin · Post by **come_on_aylin** » Wed 30 Oct 2019 8:00 am

"Just need to find out now where in Girne we can get the photos done as we have rune out of them with all the other stuff like driving licence applications"

Yücel near old HSBC, same side of road but nearer centre of town is a good place to get photos, we get our passport ones done there and always accepted.

kerry 6138 · Post by **kerry 6138** » Wed 30 Oct 2019 8:06 am

Chriswright03 wrote:
JoandJelly wrote:Chriswright the lawyer from the Interior ministry has said in his replies to questions that he will be advising what documents are required for the different types of permit.
Thanks for that JoanandJelly. I keep reading what he has put on there but as usual with facebook sometimes it doesn't put up all of the posts. One of the things I have seen mentioned is copies of birth certificates. Well that would entail a trip back to the UK to get that but I 'think' we have all the other stuff like marriage certificates. Just need to find out now where in Girne we can get the photos done as we have rune out of them with all the other stuff like driving licence applications.

With the new family residence permit you would need a birth certificate to show your relationship to your sponsor, if your sponsor was your Mother,Father,brother,sister

Chriswright03 · Post by **Chriswright03** » Wed 30 Oct 2019 8:16 am

Thanks Kerry that would make sense I guess. Luckily it is my wife who will be the family member. Will pop into the Police Station next week when hopefully they will know a bit more about it all.

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Wed 30 Oct 2019 8:36 am

Update! We are now sat in MacDonalds having coffee. Before we crossed I went to talk to the Police Officer in charge and asked if I would be given 30 days on the return! He said NO, rules have changed again and as our permits were valid till September next year we were free to go backwards and forwards until our permits expired! Thanked him and said if we are given 30 days upon return I would come back to him to sort it out, he said Problem Yok!

Ayala66 · Post by **Ayala66** » Wed 30 Oct 2019 9:54 am

M Y wife and I have just successfully done our residency. We had residency which lapsed three years ago as we chose not to renew as we were over 70..we had to make a new application at Girne police station. A word of warning you need to arrive early as only 40 tickets are issued each morning. We arrived at 8am and got ticket 15. Lots of people were to.d to return tomorrow.
Our application was made under the immovable property criteria. All paperwork was in order and we were given a slip and told to await a call/text from immigration in Lefkosia to collect documentation.
We were asked if we had crossed the border since 23 October. I said no but they checked online to confirm what I said. I asked why was this relevant and was told you would have to go for a blood test.!!

sophie · Post by **sophie** » Wed 30 Oct 2019 11:12 am

If your experience is accurate and is going to be the norm for all of us 70+ who let their Residency Stamp lapse, could you let us have a list of everything you took with you to Girne police please Muhtar letter, house contract etc. etc. etc. Thanks.

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Wed 30 Oct 2019 11:50 am

Final Update: Back home again after crossing via Metahan, no customs check, lots of RoC license plates, no comments from the police man. He said good morning, put out passport numbers into the computer, handed them back and said “Have a nice day”, we thanked him as normal and drove home! So maybe the word has gotten through to the police on the crossing points or maybe not, who can tell! But it was a normal crossing as it was prior to the 23rd of the month.

frogandtoad · Post by **frogandtoad** » Wed 30 Oct 2019 1:23 pm

We have completed the first part of renewing our residency. We have 8 years uninterrupted residency stamps and have not left the TRNC in the last four weeks. This is our experience.
Firstly you have to go to the immigration office at Girne police station with all your documents. Don’t try Lefkosa first as all they will do is send you to Girne police station.
When you get to the police station you have to go get a numbered ticket from the dispenser just outside of the immigration office. The office is only open 8am to 12 o’clock and they only will see about 45 applications. We arrived 8.10 am and our ticket number was 25. By 8.45 all 45 tickets were issued and no more could be dispensed. We had to wait about an hour to be seen and after processing we’re then issued with a piece of paper and told we would get a phone call in about 25 days time to go to the Lefkosa immigration office to pay and get our official residency certificate.
The documents we needed were: passport, photo copy of passport details, muhktar letter, copy of kojan (or registered rental agreement), marriage certificate in Turkish or English (we gave them photo copies with no problems), passport photo for the Lefkosa immigration office and 24Tl stamp (why I don’t know as they gave the stamps back to us) and proof of income or saving in the TRNC. We took UK bank statements and they just ripped them out of our folder and gave them back to us. We had one copy of everything as spare but did not need them.
Only one person was registered for residency against the kocan the other was registered as a family member which is why we had to produce a marriage certificate. This person does not have to show evidence of income or savings.
I can be of no help to those people that have a different set of condition than we have but people were being turned away because of lack of evidence of income in TRNC bank or being unable to show marriage certificate.
We await the phone call with bated breath. Hope this is of some help. I will not get into any discussion on this topic. This just our experience.

Chriswright03 · Post by **Chriswright03** » Wed 30 Oct 2019 1:26 pm

Ayala66 wrote:M Y wife and I have just successfully done our residency. We had residency which lapsed three years ago as we chose not to renew as we were over 70..we had to make a new application at Girne police station. A word of warning you need to arrive early as only 40 tickets are issued each morning. We arrived at 8am and got ticket 15. Lots of people were to.d to return tomorrow.
Our application was made under the immovable property criteria. All paperwork was in order and we were given a slip and told to await a call/text from immigration in Lefkosia to collect documentation.
We were asked if we had crossed the border since 23 October. I said no but they checked online to confirm what I said. I asked why was this relevant and was told you would have to go for a blood test.!!

This is getting stupid now. Either over 60's need blood tests or they don't. It has nothing to do if you have been over the border since the 23rd. All this misinformation coming from supposedly knowledgeable officials isn't helping anyone.

https://www.lgcnews.com/health-checks-f ... ntil-2020/

Mowgli597 · Post by **Mowgli597** » Wed 30 Oct 2019 1:49 pm

FrogandToad

Would it be correct to presume you were registering because your previous (the old system) residency stamp had expired?

Otherwise this is contrary to other advice saying if you had a current valid old residency stamp you had until 60 days before or 20 days after its expiry date to register under the new system.

Art · Post by **Art** » Wed 30 Oct 2019 2:02 pm

Couple of questions please.

1, Can you use a UK bank or Saving account as proof of income or must it be a TRNC account.?

2, Does the police part of the process have to be done within 30 days from the date of the new rules (23rd October) or within 12 months

Thank you,

Keithcaley · Post by **Keithcaley** » Wed 30 Oct 2019 2:02 pm

Mowgli597 wrote:FrogandToad

Would it be correct to presume you were registering because your previous (the old system) residency stamp had expired?

Otherwise this is contrary to other advice saying if you had a current valid old residency stamp you had until 60 days before or 20 days after its expiry date to register under the new system.

Actually, I thought that the period was defined as 'between 20 and 60 days before' - or did I misread it?

snail921 · Post by **snail921** » Wed 30 Oct 2019 2:07 pm

proof of income or saving in the TRNC

Are you saying that had to be in a TRNC bank, will statements from a UK bank not do? Apologies if somebody has already asked this but I couldn't see an answer anywhere.

Regards
Brian

frogandtoad · Post by **frogandtoad** » Wed 30 Oct 2019 2:25 pm

I am not going to get into any discussion or speculation about this topic. We were applying for residency because our current one expires on the 2nd November. We are both over 60 and have had continuous residency stamps without any break. I am not saying anything about the requirements of proof of income other than what applied to our situation. Our UK bank statements were ripped out of our folder and handed back to us. The only thing they were interested in was our TRNC bank statements which are in GBP. This only applied to myself as they had decided that I was the one to be registered against the Kocan. My wife was registered as the family member and did not have to provide income data. I hope this helps you.

snail921 · Post by **snail921** » Wed 30 Oct 2019 3:04 pm

Thanks for the reply. If it turns out that we all have to have a TRNC account the banks will be rubbing ther hands with glee. We won't be out again until late March so things may have clarified a bit by then.
Regards,
Brian.

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Wed 30 Oct 2019 3:38 pm

Interesting - our incomes are paid directly into a UK Bank account as they are all Government pensions! I suppose I could transfer some savings into a Turkish (not TRNC bank) if push came to shove.

kerry 6138 · Post by **kerry 6138** » Wed 30 Oct 2019 4:12 pm

Previous experience, and from what Ive read on Facebook UK statements where/are acceptable I can only surmise that frogandtoad had enough funds in there local account so the UK statements were surplus and returned.

Chriswright03 · Post by **Chriswright03** » Wed 30 Oct 2019 4:38 pm

waddo wrote:Interesting - our incomes are paid directly into a UK Bank account as they are all Government pensions! I suppose I could transfer some savings into a Turkish (not TRNC bank) if push came to shove.

Someone on facebook posted this from outside the Police Station today Waddo. It does not mention where the account should be held.

Mowgli597 · Post by **Mowgli597** » Wed 30 Oct 2019 5:02 pm

FrogandToad

Thank you. Because your existing registration was due to expire it seems to confirm that those who hold still valid old system registrations do not need to take any action until within the statutory period (sorry KC - Msg 36 - I was entering days from memory and you’re probably right).

Keithcaley · Post by **Keithcaley** » Wed 30 Oct 2019 6:45 pm

Mowgli597 wrote:FrogandToad

Thank you. Because your existing registration was due to expire it seems to confirm that those who hold still valid old system registrations do not need to take any action until within the statutory period (sorry KC - Msg 36 - I was entering days from memory and you’re probably right).

Not a problem - I had to read it twice when I first saw it, because of the way that it was worded (probably by a 'legal' person ).

I have got until sometime in March 2021 (when our current 'Visitor status Visas' runs out) to plan my line of attack - I'm having grave doubts about how they will view a UK 'same sex' marriage certificate!

Mowgli597 · Post by **Mowgli597** » Wed 30 Oct 2019 9:07 pm

Nope. Not a legal eagle (though I am hopefully a “legal person” - as opposed to an illegal alien?!)

That same sex marriage certificate is certainly going to be interesting, to say the least!

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Wed 30 Oct 2019 9:23 pm

Chriswright03, Many thanks for that post with pictures - all questions now have been answered and I am delighted to be described as a person eligible to gain a "High Income Residence Permit" - makes me feel much better now, rubbing shoulders with the rich and famous maybe - lol. Only thing is where do I get this High Income from I wonder????

Chriswright03 · Post by **Chriswright03** » Thu 31 Oct 2019 6:53 am

Looking at all of this both on here and on the Facebook group it would appear no one has been able to log in to the system to complete an application on line. I have looked at the web page today and the system is only coming up with a student registration. I have decided to go to the Police Station and do it myself as this would appear to work only problem is I can't even find an application form to print out anywhere.

If anyone knows where there is one on line could you post a link please?

come_on_aylin · Post by **come_on_aylin** » Thu 31 Oct 2019 7:13 am

I don't know if it's still the same but in our previous applications at the police station the officer completes the application form on your behalf(probably using info from Muhtar's letter). Just ensure you have originals and photocopies of everything and get there very early. A long time ago you used to have to get there well before 8am to guarantee getting a ticket and it sounds like it's gone back to that.

Chriswright03 · Post by **Chriswright03** » Thu 31 Oct 2019 7:26 am

Thanks for that. I am always up early so will be there long before they open. Lot of panic about it and people threatening to leave. To us it is what it is and we will just get on with it. It would help if the information coming out was official and we didn't have to rely on Facebook and here to get answers.

As a BRS member I have no problem at all with them wanting clarification of the rules as they were as I for one was convinced they were ambiguous. What I do have a problem with is the deafening silence from the BRS since the 23rd and everyone having to trawl the net to look for answers despite being told that agencies including the BRS are still in talks with the Government to iron out any problems. I am well aware that it is volunteers who work with the BRS but even so at a time like this I would have thought that extra effort would be made to do the simple stuff like answer emails or post on their site what is happening.

sophie · Post by **sophie** » Thu 31 Oct 2019 7:34 am

Maybe I, missing something really important amongst all the threads and messages on the forum, but please can someone let me know why there is all this panic to get something done when we have a year in which to do it.

BTW Yesterday I was with one of the people who is on the rota to help with the BRS surgeries and he said they had been totally swamped (almost to the point of drowning) with enquiries. As the Government system is still in a state of flux and they don't know ALL the answers yet, I can sympathise with them. So I go back to my first sentence...………….why the panic!!!!

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