RoC new border regulations.

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Re: RoC new border regulations.

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Post by waz-24-7 »

The new border regulations are of course and rightly concerning to many regular visitors and resident ex pats. Myself included.
Some have clearly indicated that they are not overly bothered or concerned.

That is fine of course for those individuals.

However more underlying concerns are also apparent.

The TRNC is a fragile economy at best. Almost totally reliant upon Turkish support.
Tourism is the main economic contributor. In past 5 years several UK based holiday firms have gathered pace upon offerings within the TRNC.

If the Conservatives gain power on Thursday the loss of European status will be on 31st January.
The clear difficulties indicated over border crossing represent a hindrance and negative angle for UK citizens holidaying in Cyprus and TRNC.
Holiday companies in the UK are very much aware of the EU European status of their customers.
I fear the TRNC as a destination will become less attractive and I expect UK visitors and investors to drop off.

If agreement upon tourism between ROC and TRNC was secured to promote Cyprus in general then of course TRNC tourism would thrive and ROC would also see massive benefits as visitors freely move across the Island.



It is the prospect

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Re: RoC new border regulations.

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Post by Deniz1 »

With Turkish Airlines saying they are in financial difficulties and Anadolu not flying at the moment its more and more difficult for anyone to get here.Also more expensive too. The tourism minister says he will expect many more visitors in the coming years HOW?

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Post by mrsgee »

I thought it was Atlasglobal in financial trouble and not flying at the moment, not Turkish Airlines.

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Post by Keithcaley »

The tourism minister says he will expect many more visitors in the coming years HOW?
They talk out of their bottoms, in case you hadn't noticed

Besides, given the length of time that the average Government lasts here, he probably reckons that he's not still going to be there and held to account in a couple of years.

They just say things to impress Today that will make them sound good, with no thought on how to achieve it...

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Post by Kanonier »

Keithcaley wrote:

They just say things to impress Today that will make them sound good, with no thought on how to achieve it...
TRNC politicians don't have a monopoly on that one!

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Re: RoC new border regulations.

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Post by wanderer »

Andaolu Jet still flying not a surprise as part of Turkish Airlines who are still buying/leasing more planes

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Post by Deniz1 »

Anadolu have cancelled flights until Dec21st. I didnt say turkish Airlines were not flying.
Last edited by Deniz1 on Sun 08 Dec 2019 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: RoC new border regulations.

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Post by come_on_aylin »

It's Atlasglobal who have cancelled flights until 21st December not Anadolu Jet who are a subsidiary of Turkish Airlines. Different companies.

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Re: RoC new border regulations.

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Post by tomsteel »

come_on_aylin wrote:It's Atlasglobal who have cancelled flights until 21st December not Anadolu Jet who are a subsidiary of Turkish Airlines. Different companies.
Ah so. However, never let fact spoil a good story springs to mind. Two separate airlines. Also, nothing to do with the RoC crossing issue. Hey ho, hopefully, a Mod will sort it out.

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Re: RoC new border regulations.

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Post by waz-24-7 »

The restrictions that the ROC are able and likely to implement have a direct effect upon access to the TRNC.
A "border" surrounds the TRNC and the effective loss of the southern route is a massive hit.
This is indeed relevant to the leading post who expresses concern generally over access.

With now possible reduction in air services via Turkey it makes access for all UK non Europeans rather more complicated , stressful and expensive.

I expressed concern over this many many month ago but to no avail.

Whilst I hope I will be one of the forum members who will "find a way". It is new blood to the area and the loss to the TRNC that is of justifiable concern.

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Post by Deniz1 »

Oops sorry wrong airline my mistake but my original point still stands re tourism

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Re: RoC new border regulations.

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Post by PoshinDevon »

Topic is about crossing the border.

There is a topic about AtlasGlobal already on the forum so please post on this topic any thoughts on flights to North Cyprus or its affect on tourism.

I am sure we are all aware that Brexit if it happens will very likely bring changes to crossing the border. As a result it will affect and influence whether it is still legal and possible to use the airports in the south to travel to the island and then onwards to the north. However; it really is all guesswork at the moment.
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Re: RoC new border regulations.

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Post by Reyntj »

I was reading an article yesterday where ersin tartar the trnc pm was talking about permanent separation if talks now dont produce another solution . The border crossing antics are part of a wider tit for tat . I feel that the greeks are playing into erdogans hands . I dont think the eu are going to allow the proposals for the green line but if they do its another nail in the coffin fora federal solution and a move to permanent separationn . If the greeks cypriots move further to isolate the trnc economy then the argument for permanent separation becomes more powerful as there is nothing else to lose .

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Post by waz-24-7 »

PoshinDevon wrote:Topic is about crossing the border.

There is a topic about AtlasGlobal already on the forum so please post on this topic any thoughts on flights to North Cyprus or its affect on tourism.

I am sure we are all aware that Brexit if it happens will very likely bring changes to crossing the border. As a result it will affect and influence whether it is still legal and possible to use the airports in the south to travel to the island and then onwards to the north. However; it really is all guesswork at the moment.



Hello Posh,
The original post is very clear upon some justifiable concerns over access to the North of Cyprus. The TRNC has a border around it just like the ROC.
Travel across the ROC/TRNC is one route of access. Others are clearly available and very relevant in this concerning topic.

Any discussion and debate upon access to TRNC is very relevant. The topic is generating some serious discussion and access scenarios. It is clearly of interest.

Upon your own post.

Your wait and see and guess work attitude is fine for you. However many people including myself want to prepare for the worst the road map is now very much clearer upon the loss of European citizenship. The discussion is informing members upon how best to get to the TRNC in the event the southern route is closed off.

I wonder how £eagle reads into the posts that reference means and ways to access.
The more discussion upon solutions the better I say.

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Post by Soner »

My glass is Half Full. I'll fly in and out of Ercan. No problem. No need for worry or panic at this stage.
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Re: RoC new border regulations.

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Post by alphamike »

Soner wrote:My glass is Half Full. I'll fly in and out of Ercan. No problem. No need for worry or panic at this stage.
That's totally fine and I kind of agree with you. I've only flown from Larnaca once in the ten years I have lived here, preferring Ercan. It's not the same for family visiting who find it easier to come through ROC airports, without all the hassle of having to go through airport security at Istanbul, changing planes when they are elderly or have children. What's even more of a nightmare is when they change the gate at Istanbul after directing you there. It's happened to me several times with no announcements. I am talking about Ataturk airport, not tried the new Istanbul airport yet, but I do hope that it's improved.

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Post by waz-24-7 »

Yes
Totally agree.
For those of us familiar with the route via Turkey and some of the issues, delays and hustles its very do able.
Personally
I have never done UK to TRNC via Turkey but have flown from Ercan to Turkey with do hindrance at all.

However for attracting new UK business to the TRNC the potential issues will not put the destination in a favourable light.
Its just too difficult to get there compared to other destinations.
The implication of that is less UK visitors, less UK investment and a resultant decline in any UK led enhancement of the TRNC.
This is a real shame given the very strong presence of ex pats and the hard work that many have put in to putting the region on the UK tourist map.

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Post by Maisiemoo »

I use Larnaca because it's convenient and not too big to navigate around, important when you have mobility issues and the Special Assistance there is superb. I don't really know how we will manage it we have to fly via Turkey, something I try not to think about at the moment.

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Post by PoshinDevon »

At the time of writing this post I am not aware that the ROC have introduced any new rules when crossing the border.

If or when they do then I will plan accordingly.
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Post by waz-24-7 »

PoshinDevon wrote:At the time of writing this post I am not aware that the ROC have introduced any new rules when crossing the border.

If or when they do then I will plan accordingly.
Fair enough Posh,
At the time of writing. All UK citizens have the right, as EU citizens, of free movement in across and through the ROC.
However,
Given the recent media attention and statements as per previous posts within this discussion.
The looming exit from the EU. The loss of your European status. The clear antagonistic position that the ROC holds against the TRNC and its supporters. The looming vulnerability associated with UK citizens using the ROC as a point of entry to the TRNC.
A level of planning and preparation may be a prudent move.
Clearly many on this forum are highlighting and discussing options, potential difficulties and solutions for their continued enjoyment of their travels to Cyprus.

My own views on the general subject are well documented. I too am now preparing for the almost inevitable. It is precisely this issue that appears to have drifted under the radar of many forum members when they considered the matter 3 years ago.

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Post by Geoff1131 »

waz-24-7 Still banging the negative Brexit drum i see. Would not expect any less from you. In my opinion if the ROC did implement difficulties for people crossing the borders, then i would think the TRNC will seek out ways to combat such action. I have heard that Ministers have been in talks to try to again have direct flights from the UK, this will become more of an urgency if and when it is needed. I can live without visiting the South if the ROC decides to make it harder for me to go there so no big loss . As in the Brexit debate, i think the best option is ' wait and see, and deal with the outcome when it is known ' Sorry about the Brexit thing by the way. !!!!

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Post by kiplet »

Do we all think it’s definitely going to happen..?
History repeats...so many U turns.
My experience is wait until it’s actually enforced ( if it does occurs) then take action

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Post by Keithcaley »

Hope for the Best,

But

Plan for the Worst

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Post by sophie »

I'm amazed at the number of people on this forum and those I meet generally who are planning to up sticks and go back to UK when I see the number of For Sales properties, both new build and 'second hand'. Are they all in a position to have property in the UK, and just moving out and handing over the key to an Agent and trusting all will be well between Agent and Advocate, are they in a financial position to be able to sell at a huge loss or what. I really would love to know. (sorry this is off topic but the subject comes up quite frequently when members refer to "another nail in the coffin"!!!

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Post by Joker1 »

It might be a good time to change Sterling into TL. IF the Labour Party get in there could well be a run on the pound.

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Post by mickhm »

funnily enough I looked at exchange rates this morniong. Even with Boris topping the npoll £ to Euro is 1.1898 and £ to TL is 7.6470. So much for doom and gloo
Mick
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Post by Deniz1 »

Me too Sophie

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Post by Laura B »

Me three Sophie! I hope some will enlighten us!

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Post by Maisiemoo »

I can only speak as a swallow of 15 years. We didn't buy our house as an investment but purely to spend extended holidays in a country we loved. If we sold for £75k, and realistically speaking we should sell for more than that even given the state of the market, we would make back our original purchase price back and look upon the time we have spent here as the interest earned. Obviously I do realise we are in a better position than a lot of people but I can understand why some feel.that now is the right time to sell up and return to the UK or try their luck elsewhere. We are weighing up the pro's and con's ourse!ves and still haven't decided one way or another but age, health and mobility issues are our prime concerns at this moment in time.

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Post by dippersgirl »

christmas card 2019 kibkom.jpg
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When we first bought our house here in 2000, we could not travel to the South anyway and had no expectations to do so. As we live in Dipkarpaz, it's a long way to go there anyway. We are happy and over the years more things have become available anyway, so there is no need to give our money to the other side. We used the Larnaca airport mostly because the flights to Gatwick went from there and we did not want Stansted, but now there are more choices via Ercan as well.

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Post by karmels »

Bye Bye. No no ft
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Post by karmels »

I have no idea what happened there.

It should read. Bye Bye enjoy the caravan camping on the South Coast.
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Post by desih »

I am an EU citizen I believe we ALL must protect our borders.
As I understand it, that is also the view of our British friends. If the British ( largely English) regretably finalise their decision to leave the EU 'club' they must be aware that their decision means loss of the rights to free movement within our European Community.
I'm sure you all appreciate that the European Family have every right to protect their borders, it will be with great regret that the English have ( almost) decided to leave the 'family'.

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Post by waddo »

desih, sadly, you are quite correct. However, not all the "English" voted to leave the EU - for one - I did not but I have to suffer the same fate as everyone else who did! Good luck to all the EU citizens, I have enjoyed the benefits of being in the club but now armed only with a totally untested parachute I am forced to leap off the perfectly serviceable aircraft, in the hopes I will have a soft landing - lol. Personal opinion only and not wishing to start any discussion or "bun fight" over the matter. It has been argued to death already since 2016 and needs no further comments.
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Post by kibsolar1999 »

well, it was not the "idea" of the EU to try to restrict the free movement. it was and is a basic part of the brexit campaign.

if now a no deal brexit happens, the UK will introduce strict regulations also for EU citizens.
which ones excactly, we do not know, but the UK also needs tourists.. so, a 90 day visa regulation is to be expected.
as the EU has already regulations for "3rd" countries, basically UK citizens are in a better position as EU citizens.

reg the Roc: you are free to travel to LCA or Paphos and you will get a visa for 90 days.
All green line crossing points are no "legal entries" to the Roc and no visas can be issued there and all non EU and non TRNC citizens can be rejected there.
most probably someone with a visa ( eg, issued at LCA airport) will not be rejected, but certainly all without a visa.
do not be too sure that people can enter the SBAs, and be sure that if, there will be police waiting in Pyla to check the one or other car for illegal entry to the RoC. you may goto prison, definitely pay a lot of money and may be sent back to UK, via LCA, on your own costs of course.

it also could be that, to avoid trouble with the RoC, ( and i believe that is also their "duty" as specified in "agreements" reg "how to run" the crossing points ) TRNC border officials deny you to leave the TRNC. so, you have no chance to see an UK military officer at all.
they do that already, eg, with african students wich surely have no EU visa. or with eg, Turkish citizens as well. they check the passports for a EU visa... no visa, no crossing.
and if you say: why should they forbid me to enter a SBA, iam UK citizen and the SBAs are UK territory..... then i could ask: why this was not possible for UK (/ EU ) citizens before 2004? (access was only possible for some, eg (ex) military)

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Post by tomsteel »

There is no requirement to enter Pyle/Pile village to enter the ESBA from any compass point. The southern area of the crossing at Pergamos/ Beyermadu lies totally within ESBA (UK) territory and is not subject to RoC police enforcement. Currently, there are no SBA Police or Customs check travelling south to north, so who can enter the TRNC depends on the Immigration there. Travelling north to south is subject to TRNC Immigration and then SBA Custom checks, no police involvement from the SBA Police and most certainly not RoC Police. The ESBA area is large, with the A3 motorway and other major roads passing through it. How the RoC Police could monitor passage from/into the ESBA from either direction beggars belief, certainly a massive and expensive task 24/7 with so many checkpoints and the need to check every vehicle.

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Post by waddo »

At the very least it would call for customs/immigration stop and search check points at stages either on or when joining the A3! This I would just love to see how the RoC could accomplish that. No chance at all that the RoC could establish similar check points within SBA areas so how will it be policed? Will third country national forces be kept within SBA areas or will they be treated the same as UN military/dependents?
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Post by tomsteel »

waddo wrote:At the very least it would call for customs/immigration stop and search check points at stages either on or when joining the A3! This I would just love to see how the RoC could accomplish that. No chance at all that the RoC could establish similar check points within SBA areas so how will it be policed? Will third country national forces be kept within SBA areas or will they be treated the same as UN military/dependents?
waddo, spot on. However, how would the RoC rozzers check the traffic using the other roads? The A3 is but one route. Within the ESBA controlled traffic circuit you can drive east or west on coastal roads, plus the TRNC/ESBA border road and never touch the A3 until you choose to do so, if ever or not. Impossible, in my opinion.

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Post by desih »

It is of course very likely that upon leaving the EU the British bases in Cyprus will go the way of the Chagos Islands. Control of these bases will almost certainly be challenged by Cyprus!

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Post by PoshinDevon »

desih wrote:It is of course very likely that upon leaving the EU the British bases in Cyprus will go the way of the Chagos Islands. Control of these bases will almost certainly be challenged by Cyprus!
Whilst the U.K. have said that as part of any future Cyprus “settlement” they would be willing to hand back a portion of the 99 sq miles of the Sovereign Base Areas, I doubt very much that the base areas will go away.

Cyprus is a very strategic island in the eastern Mediterranean and whether people agree or not the base at RAF Akrotiri is a vital in ensuring British interests in this volatile area are maintained. In addition British communications and signals intelligence gathering is of equal importance.

As others have said, entering the eastern SBA at Beyarmudu (Pergamos) from the TRNC is subject to the normal checks on the TRNC side and then a passport/customs check on the SBA side. You can also travel along SBA roads into the SBA area which are not subject to the ROC control. Indeed you can even drive the 15 miles along the SBA corridor road from Dhekelia Station to Ayios Nikolaos Station (Vrysoulles). These roads are not subject to ROC Police control. Obviously from the SBA, roads join roads/motorways in the ROC but to monitor each one would be impossible.

Interesting times ahead.
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Post by Jonnie »

On the subject of change in Istanbul. I came in from LHR the other day, off the plane and straight into the departures lounge, no transfer security only a staff member making sure I had a Boarding pass for an onward flight. Going to the UK was more stringent but I believe that is a requirement imposed by UK.

Taxi times have been fine too as have transfers (on other flights) so Istanbul looks positive to me.

As far as I can see there will be no issue with holidaymakers coming via LCA as they will be in the country subject to visa. The main effect will be for those entering via a port considered illegal via the GCs.

I have no issue whatsoever using ECN for UK flights.
Some are wise and some otherwise.....

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Post by Hector »

My fear is that post 31st January if we fly into Larnaca from the UK, that as non-EU citizens (not sure if during the 12 month transition period, will mean we are still treated as EU citizens), will RoC immigration demand to know (as is their right) to know as a visitor where we are staying i.e. which Cyprus hotel and ask for proof of booking? Will we be treated like the group from Israel that was sent back home because they were booked into a hotel in the north that was pre 74 Greek-owned? If you say you own a property in the north, I can imagine the reaction and the criminal charges that may result. What happens if having flown into the south, been given a 90-day visa, you then cross into the north and then cross back to fly home out of Larnaca? If that goes to plan. What happens the next time you fly into Larnaca from the UK?

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PoshinDevon
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Re: RoC new border regulations.

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Post by PoshinDevon »

Hector wrote:My fear is that post 31st January if we fly into Larnaca from the UK, that as non-EU citizens (not sure if during the 12 month transition period, will mean we are still treated as EU citizens), will RoC immigration demand to know (as is their right) to know as a visitor where we are staying i.e. which Cyprus hotel and ask for proof of booking? Will we be treated like the group from Israel that was sent back home because they were booked into a hotel in the north that was pre 74 Greek-owned? If you say you own a property in the north, I can imagine the reaction and the criminal charges that may result. What happens if having flown into the south, been given a 90-day visa, you then cross into the north and then cross back to fly home out of Larnaca? If that goes to plan. What happens the next time you fly into Larnaca from the UK?
No one really knows at present.

We are playing safe and on our return to North Cyprus in March next year we will be travelling via Turkey. Will monitor the situation and plan accordingly. Whatever will be will be and I see no reason to throw different theories into the air, it’s really not worthwhile getting to excited until the ROC make it known what they may or may not do.
Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass,it's about learning to dance in the rain

Peterborough Utd -The Posh

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Re: RoC new border regulations.

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Post by frugal90 »

Other non eu nationals are flying in to th e South and heading north for their up to 3 month stay.

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Re: RoC new border regulations.

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Post by Butterflyaway »

I have a cunning plan.

Assuming the UK leaves the EU at the end of January 2020 and the transition period is sorted and agreed by December 31st 2020. I plan the following travel arrangements.

Prior to December 31st 2020, depart Larnaca to somewhere!

Return to TRNC through Ercan. This means the ROC will be satisfied that I have left before the end of the transition period.

For the next six months I will not cross into the South.

Sometime in June 2021 I will leave Ercan to somewhere. Then I will fly into Larnaca. As I have not been in the ROC for the preceding 180 days, I presume I will be allowed in, assuming I can convince them I will not be staying in any Greek Cypriot property in the North.

Then I believe I will be able to cross back and forth for the next 90 days.

Before the 90 days is up, I will have to fly out of Larnaca, fly back into Ercan and wait 90 days before doing the whole thing again!

It’s sounds plausible to me!

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Re: RoC new border regulations.

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Post by Kanonier »

Let us know how you get on.

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Re: RoC new border regulations.

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Post by waddo »

Butterflyaway, sounds like a plan to me, only one question - how do you plan on crossing back and forth for the next 90 days, walk, bicycle or taxi???
Make happy those who are near and those who are far will come!

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Re: RoC new border regulations.

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Post by Deniz1 »

You must have unlimited funds too

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