Countries covering up covid deaths

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Reyntj
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Countries covering up covid deaths

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Post by Reyntj »

According to the bbc iran has been lying about its deaths

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-53598965

There are a number of other countries where the government control the media who have very low mortality rates . Often claiming how goo their health services are for political and economic gain .

Saudi arabiia russia etc they all seem to be at it . Uk has officialy c 304000 cases and 46000 deaths saudi arabia slightly less cases at c 270000 But only 2913 deaths....clearly there are lots of other factors but the disparity between the two is difficult to believe.

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Re: Countries covering up covid deaths

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Post by PoshinDevon »

The issue has always been countries counting the number of deaths differently. Add to this some countries obviously massaging the figures and it’s very difficult to compare like for like.

Here in England the total number of deaths and how they have been recorded is under investigation by Public Health England as there is strong evidence to suggest the total is wrong. Died with Covid 19, died of Covid 19 etc. If you have had Covid 19 and get run over by a bus then Covid 19 often appears somewhere on the death certificate.

Plenty of graphs and statistics out there but the one I look at a lot is:

https://twitter.com/ukcovid19stats/stat ... 66433?s=21

At present; as with many countries there are isolated spikes in the U.K. certain areas, which has to be expected. It is a very fine balance between opening up, controlling the virus and trying to keep the economy going. Plenty of businesses closing there doors for ever and lots of redundancies sadly. Permanent lockdown is not the long term solution and the virus is something we have to live with.
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Re: Countries covering up covid deaths

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Post by Trigger »

Statistics are there to be massaged. It’s what governments, businesses etc do.

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Re: Countries covering up covid deaths

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Post by Brazen »

“Lies, damned lies and statistics”!

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Re: Countries covering up covid deaths

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

You have the of covid and with covid anomoly.

It might be in hospitals interests to up the covid deaths to squeeze some more resources out of the government.

Governments could go either way I guess. On one hand a low mortality rate shows how well they reacted to the crisis or a high mortality rate justifies burning their economy for the next decade.

As for excess deaths which is the best indicator, even that isn't without it's problems.

You are bound to have a bubble in that if the virus has simply bought inevitable deaths forward then the figures will be higher at the start than at the end of the year.
Another factor is the deaths caused by the lock down. Preventable deaths that have occurred because non essential services have been cut or maybe people who were feeling ill and could have been diagnosed early and cured might have not attended a hospital out of fear of the virus.
Throw in some deaths which are a result of the economic fall out from the lock down, for example I wouldn't be at all surprised if this years suicide rate was on the high side. The economic deaths will occur over the next few years rather than simply appear in this years figures.

Then you can factor in that road deaths will probably be lower. That will especially be a factor here in TRNC in that the lock down would have cut down the lunatic drivers hours on the road so our covid deaths will probably be less than the road accident lives cut.

A point to remember is 1700 people die in the UK every day. Due to the lock down the virus hasn't just been the main story it has been the only story. Now in the normal course of events all the newspapers had a daily death toll every single day of the year as a headline then people would naturally get very nervous and depressed.

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Re: Countries covering up covid deaths

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Post by waddo »

Why are we concerned with the accuracy of those who have died with or of Covid 19? Would it not make more sense to be concerned with the accuracy of the numbers who are tested "Positive" for Covid 19 everyday? Not wishing to appear cold hearted about things but those who have died have died and it is more concerning now to find out how many are carrying or are infected with Covid 19 - a drop in those figures is what we should all be aiming for!

With the best will in the world, if the USA says that 100 people died today and 200,000 have tested positive today, which figure would stop you going to the USA tomorrow?
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Re: Countries covering up covid deaths

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Post by PoshinDevon »

The tested positive is of course great..... however if mandatory testing is not in place or mass testing isn’t available what does this really mean?

The number of deaths etc I agree is also meaningless especially given how different countries track, report, and identify Covid deaths. It is not consistent.

That’s why I look at the number of patients in hospital with Covid 19. Despite the spikes that are occurring in different areas which is to be expected the numbers are reducing.

For the likes of us it’s all very confusing.
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Re: Countries covering up covid deaths

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Post by Keithcaley »

Why are we concerned with the accuracy of those who have died with or of Covid 19?
Because if they're lying about the deaths, they're probably also lying about the numbers of infections...

Presumably, the WHO have a fair idea what's going on, and as I'm not inclined to travel anywhere at all, it doesn't concern me, but I feel that it is indicative of whether a Country's statements about any subject are to be trusted.

Just my opinion!

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Re: Countries covering up covid deaths

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Post by sophie »

I'm with KC on this one. If I have to become a hermit for another 6 months or more, I just don't care. Seven more years on my UK PP and figures can be manipulated and not to be trusted by many countries in any case. Will miss the family but they have their own lives to live and we have social media this end in any case. Not as good as a cuddle, but there you go.

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Re: Countries covering up covid deaths

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

waddo wrote:
Mon 03 Aug 2020 1:37 pm


Why are we concerned with the accuracy of those who have died with or of Covid 19? Would it not make more sense to be concerned with the accuracy of the numbers who are tested "Positive" for Covid 19 everyday? Not wishing to appear cold hearted about things but those who have died have died and it is more concerning now to find out how many are carrying or are infected with Covid 19 - a drop in those figures is what we should all be aiming for!

With the best will in the world, if the USA says that 100 people died today and 200,000 have tested positive today, which figure would stop you going to the USA tomorrow?
Do you not think knowing the mortality rate is important? At the moment we do not have a clue as far as I can make out. The mortality rate is vital If countries or even individuals are going to carry out risk assessments.
We can’t hide away forever so countries need to know if someone catches it;
1) What’s the chances of infection?
2) What percentage of the infected will need hospital treatment.
3) Of those that catch it how many will die?

You can’t totally de-risk life.

Every time you get in a car there is a chance you might crash and die.

Every time flu season hits, you have a chance of dying from it.

So it’s a 3 part question.
What are the odds of catching it?
Then if you catch it, what are the odds on requiring hospital treatment rather than just staying home and feeling rough for a couple of weeks?
And worse case scenario what are the odds of dying?

Don’t forget even if we get a vaccine, the chances are that the vaccine will harm/kill a small percentage of people.

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Re: Countries covering up covid deaths

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Post by waddo »

3 part question:

What are the odds of catching it? - To answer that you first need to look at your own lifestyle, where do you live, how fit you are, how much you mix with other people (Given that Covid 19 spreads by contact and in some cases is airborne), what precautions you, personally, take. Everyone has a different answer so "statistically" I would say the odds of catching it are low in KKTC but much higher in the RoC - answer is to stay away from the RoC.

Then if you catch it etc? Totally unknown as it effects everybody in a different way, some very fit young people have died from it and some very old farts have lived through it, some die rapidly some spend months in ICU and recover (Patient 91 for instance), it is all about the individual immune system. Odds - 50/50, it's a coin toss at best. Just remember it is not like riding a motorcycle without a crash helmet in the hopes you will never crash - there is always somebody out there willing to see how far you can travel after knocking you off the bike!!

And worse case scenario what are the odds of dying? 100%! Death and Taxes! It is not the odds, it is a certainty that everyone will die! Covid 19 will/could/might kill you and at the very least will/could/might shorten your lifespan - but so will the flu, cancer, alcohol, smoking, starving and of course - riding your motorbike without a helmet!

As an example - In 1963 I, along with a number of other young lads, freshly joined into the RAF, formed two lines in sick quarters. The lads on the left had one injection and the lads on the right had a different one. We were told that one injection was a trial common cold prevention and the other one was a placebo. In 1985 I caught my very first cold since joining the RAF - we never found out which injection was which by the way. So, would I have a vaccination for Covid 19 if one became available - Not A Chance!!! I will go with the odds on catching it or not, too old now to play with the days, weeks, months or years I have remaining.
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Re: Countries covering up covid deaths

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

waddo wrote:
Mon 03 Aug 2020 5:47 pm


some very fit young people have died from it
I’ve seen pictures of young people called fit that looked like they had a season ticket for Greggs.
Also others that are called fit and go to the gym everyday who look like they roid which causes its own problems.
A lot of young people who have died had underlying health problems which leaves some that weren’t obese, roiding or had underlying health problems.
Now there are always people that drop dead for no apparent reason but after an autopsy are found to have some heart problem or suchlike. I wonder whether in the rush to pass off deaths as covid that those other factors might be missed or when discovered later not publicised.

I think if someone is under 50, maybe 60, and in good health their chances of dying from covid are minuscule.

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Re: Countries covering up covid deaths

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Post by Keithcaley »

I think if someone is under 50, maybe 60, and in good health their chances of dying from covid are minuscule.

We're all doomed then - I don't know anyone who matches that description!

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Post by waddo »

ETS/Keith, Maybe all of us have passed the 50/60 mark and survived till now, makes you wonder how we did it - lol. I believe that life is just a number of heart beats, you start off with X number and when you exceed that then you are either very lucky or you miscounted!! Of course you can shorten the number yourself - or get somebody else to do it for you - but really, provided you take reasonable care of yourself, don't take to many silly chances and just carry on then I guess you can reach your allocated number.

Of course you could bring religion into the argument as well - if you pray more do you live longer, etc - but I don't want to open that can of worms so will leave it alone. Then there are those - myself included - who started smoking young (13 for me) and have never stopped and are still here regardless of all the evidence that they/I should have expired many years ago. Hope I live to see the end of this post - lol.

I think that the age brackets do have meaning but not sure if being younger makes you less likely to snuff it, as the older you are the more your immune system has had to deal with down the years and is more used to sudden change and rapid response - maybe. Those of advancing years who look after themselves seem to fare well against most illness's until one particular one takes a major hold on their systems, from then on it's the slippery slope to the hole in the ground I am afraid.

One thing for sure is that I was here yesterday - I stand a 50/50 chance of being here tomorrow and I am damned if I will worry about the next day after that. Life is for living - I have done my share of that - so carry on and live, worrying reduces your life span with high blood pressure, do away with it and just sit quiet and look at the beauty around you for 15 minutes a day and enjoy the moments, they may be your last - OR NOT!

Wishing you all a very happy day and a much longer life than any of us deserve - remember, the longer you live the more you get back your taxes from the Govt!! Take care out there.
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Re: Countries covering up covid deaths

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Post by sophie »

Waddo, I think the question of "to have or not to have an injection for Covid 19" is not that straight forward and an anti Covid won't happen for years. From what I've read, it seems to me that the jabs in the pipeline are to try and lessen the symptons. Yesterday I spoke to my son whose biking mate started to feel ill second week in March, third week in March was in hospital, two days later on ventilator. He has spent 8 weeks in hospital and is now home. However, he's extremely weak, is very forgetful and has no appetite. What his eventual prognosis is, no-one seems to know. I think he's about 50. Whether an anti-Covid jab would have prevented him having the disease who knows, but at least it might have prevented him being in the sorry state he is now.

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Re: Countries covering up covid deaths

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Post by Chriswright03 »

I was talking to someone yesterday who said that the whole Covid thing was nonsense and it didn't exist. Beggars belief I know but when I said what did he think all these people were dying of he asked me a question. "Do you know anyone who has died of it?" My answer was no and that I didn't know anyone who knew anyone that had either but in a population of millions that was hardly surprising.

As to the discussion here I think it is obvious to anyone with any amount of intelligence that the figures from many Countries (if not all) will not be accurate. Whether that is through poor records or a desire to hide the truth depends on what Country you are talking about as much as what news paper you read, Answer really is we will never know.

How does that affect how I deal with it all? Not one jot! We are here on the Island and have been prior to lockdown and are grateful for it. I see very little news (my choice) as I truly believe there is no such thing as good news. I do of course see snippets from being on here and elsewhere on the 'tinternet. Whilst the debate goes on about whether the UK should be downgraded to Cat B by WHO and the UK are reporting increasing numbers daily of positive cases no doubt due to their releasing the animals from the zoo the question about whether the figures are accurate or not is irrelevant because the Authorities here and in the UK will decide what action to take and we have no control over that.

Of course if we never know how accurate any information given is it isn't possible to make an accurate assessment of how safe we are wherever we are. That will never change so my view is accept it and deal with our safety as best I can by taking all sensible precautions. Covid is here to stay in some form or other and I think free movement and travel will not return to 'normal' any time soon if ever. I just believe that if as individuals we take what precautions we can to ensure we are as safe as possible then our job is done. Relying on the accuracy or otherwise of any Government is a jump too far.

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Re: Countries covering up covid deaths

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Post by waddo »

Chris - 100% behind you.

"Of course if we never know how accurate any information given is it isn't possible to make an accurate assessment of how safe we are wherever we are. That will never change so my view is accept it and deal with our safety as best I can by taking all sensible precautions. Covid is here to stay in some form or other and I think free movement and travel will not return to 'normal' any time soon if ever. I just believe that if as individuals we take what precautions we can to ensure we are as safe as possible then our job is done. Relying on the accuracy or otherwise of any Government is a jump too far."

All the Govt's, no matter where they are, are running scared for either their own jobs or for the people they support and represent - The possibility of a "Jab" that will either prevent or cure the current virus is the same as getting on that will prevent or cure the common cold or the flu! The 50 million deaths in 1918 caused by Spanish Flu are forgotten in the mists of time - so is the cure! This current virus will run it's course and people will die from it. It is up to the individual to minimise the risks to themselves or pay the ultimate price! Stay safe mate.
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Re: Countries covering up covid deaths

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

Keithcaley wrote:
Tue 04 Aug 2020 5:53 am
I think if someone is under 50, maybe 60, and in good health their chances of dying from covid are minuscule.

We're all doomed then - I don't know anyone who matches that description!
No I realise for expats out here we are pretty much all
hitting that age group but what it does illustrate is that a lockdown for everyone is as logical as testing school children for Alzheimers or inoculating OAPs for mumps.

It’s the same as going for a jog, the odds on you keeling over 55 are a much much higher than at 35, at 65 far more than at 25

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Re: Countries covering up covid deaths

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Post by waddo »

Phew! Glad I stopped that last week then - lol, at 73 I must have been pushing it a bit. Will just stick to the surfing, rock climbing and smoking then, no obvious danger in them for old farts like me. Take care out there people, it's a wonderful life really.
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