Unelected bureaucrats with power over us all.

[erol]

This thread refers to an entirely off topic comment made here

viewtopic.php?p=276693#p276693

Well no one ever had any intention of voting them in but with patience they got power anyhow.

cf

The Right Honourable Lord Frost CMG PC, Minister of State at the Cabinet Office.

did someone whisper 'double standards' ?

As I am here now EJS, what's your current view on Dominic Cummings ?

[EnjoyingTheSun]

As I am here now EJS, what's your current view on Dominic Cummings ?

I think the view is that whilst we couldn't believe a word he said when he worked for Johnson now he got binned and wants to put the boot into Johnson on every opportunity we should believe 100% everything that comes out of his mouth.
That's right isn't it?

[EnjoyingTheSun]

This thread refers to an entirely off topic comment made here

viewtopic.php?p=276693#p276693

Well no one ever had any intention of voting them in but with patience they got power anyhow.

sm.jpeg

cf

lf.jpg

The Right Honourable Lord Frost CMG PC, Minister of State at the Cabinet Office.

did someone whisper 'double standards' ?

Nope as usual it's fly poop and pepper unless Lord Frost is a member of an extremist party.
If so which one is it, the BNP?

My view on Communism is exactly the same as Fascism. They are both extremist parties/beliefs which will limit people's personal freedom and generally end up killing a significant numbers of people.

Communism can be dressed up far prettier admittedly, we want to end inequality blah blah and trust us its never been tried properly but this time.......
The result will be the same because as someone once wrote, nice idea wrong species.

Now should a civil servant be found to be a member of the BNP I'll be the first one to sign a petition.
For all I know a few might be members of the BNP but if they are they know that to be a member of an extremist party openly would quite rightly disqualify them from any public office and they would be hounded out of that office.

I have no doubt that Susie will survive though. That's where the double standards come in.

I guess if the Momentum mob can get rid of Starmer and Labour lurches back and all the entryists can get it back to democratic socialism on the tin but Marxism in reality then maybe she'll join 'Labour' and we can pretend that she has renounced Communism.

Seemed to work for her ex Andrew Drummond-Murray although I don't know about you but I wasn't fooled?


.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

So Erol to frame the question more accurately.

We accept that we have unelected bureaucrats that wield a lot of power which in a perfect world they would be elected to have but logistically that isn't feasible.

So generally we have these unelected bureaucrats and hopefully they are apolitical but being human they will have political leanings but hopefully will be fairly centreist?

Now if one of these unelected bureaucrats was openly a fascist would you be comfortable with that?

You obviously seems to be comfortable with one of these unelected bureaucrats being openly Communist as you have tried to throw some shade on that fact? At least her ex tried to dress it up a bit as unconvincing as that was.

So basically you have no problem having an extremist wielding power but as long as they are the right kind of extremist?

[erol]

As I am here now EJS, what's your current view on Dominic Cummings ?

I think the view is that whilst we couldn't believe a word he said when he worked for Johnson now he got binned and wants to put the boot into Johnson on every opportunity we should believe 100% everything that comes out of his mouth.
That's right isn't it?

There was me thinking you might actually answer a question asked of you. How stupid and naive of me.

For the record before I considered him a dangerous (unelected) egotist with little regard for anything other than his own superior intellect and who's selfish behaviour and 'do as I say not as I do attitude' materially damaged the UK's effort to deal with covid and I still think exactly the same today.

As for the idea that I would engage with you here in a discussion of the pros and cons of different political theories and systems, given your apparent inability to distinguish BLM, the idea and concept that we have not yet done enough to level out negative outcomes based on your ethnic background in our respective countries that motivated 100's and millions of ordinary people to take to the streets and the England football team to take the knee, that is 99.95% of what BLM actually is and BLM an actual political organisation that is 0.05% of the BLM totality, then I am sorry I will have to disappoint.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

So Erol to frame the question more accurately.

We accept that we have unelected bureaucrats that wield a lot of power which in a perfect world they would be elected to have but logistically that isn't feasible.

So generally we have these unelected bureaucrats and hopefully they are apolitical but being human they will have political leanings but hopefully will be fairly centreist?

Now if one of these unelected bureaucrats was openly a fascist would you be comfortable with that?

You obviously seems to be comfortable with one of these unelected bureaucrats being openly Communist as you have tried to throw some shade on that fact? At least her ex tried to dress it up a bit as unconvincing as it was. Even Seamus Milne dialled back on the Stalinist views when he thought his man might fool the electorate

So basically you have no problem having an extremist wielding power but as long as they are the right kind of extremist?
I don't think it was wise to bring up double standards tbh.

[erol]

So Erol to frame the question more accurately.

We accept that we have unelected bureaucrats that wield a lot of power which in a perfect world they would be elected to have but logistically that isn't feasible.

So generally we have these unelected bureaucrats and hopefully they are apolitical but being human they will have political leanings but hopefully will be fairly centreist?

Now if one of these unelected bureaucrats was openly a fascist would you be comfortable with that?

You obviously seems to be comfortable with one of these unelected bureaucrats being openly Communist as you have tried to throw some shade on that fact? At least her ex tried to dress it up a bit as unconvincing as that was.

So basically you have no problem having an extremist wielding power but as long as they are the right kind of extremist?

I have never said I have a problem with unelected bureaucrats. Many others have. Nor do I care what a bureaucrats religious, political or sexual leanings might be as long as they do the job they are appointed to with competence.

You are the one who see's 'red's under the bed' at every opportunity, politicises everything, bemoans unelected bureaucrats at every opportunity but only those YOU define as 'extreme'. You are judge jury and executioner. Yet given you judge things like the England football and the 100s of millions of ordinary people globally who took to the streets in the aftermath of Floyd George's murder as being puppets and in thrall or brainwashed by marxists extremists that want to enslave everyone, despite all common sense and what they themselves actually say or anything else besides, your judgment seems pretty flawed from where I am sitting.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

There was me thinking you might actually answer a question asked of you. How stupid and naive of me.

For the record before I considered him a dangerous (unelected) egotist with little regard for anything other than his own superior intellect and who's selfish behaviour and 'do as I say not as I do attitude' materially damaged the UK's effort to deal with covid and I still think exactly the same today.

My view of Cummings is he is an extremely arrogant man who is very good at running a campaign. That made him a danger because unfortunately he had been hired by the other side. And as a danger he had to be cancelled.
Had Corbyn had hired him and he delivered them electoral success I have no doubt you would have kept your powder dry on Cummings.
I personally liked him because being successful and a danger he really boiled the pee of you and others.
Honest enough for you? I'll leave you to blow smoke up everyones backsides with the his actions cost millions of lives narrative.

As for the idea that I would engage with you here in a discussion of the pros and cons of different political theories and systems, given your apparent inability to distinguish BLM, the idea and concept that we have not yet done enough to level out negative outcomes based on your ethnic background in our respective countries that motivated 100's and millions of ordinary people to take to the streets and the England football team to take the knee, that is 99.95% of what BLM actually is and BLM an actual political organisation that is 0.05% of the BLM totality, then I am sorry I will have to disappoint.

BLM are a Marxist organisation. Any action which could be viewed as support for them I am against. That is not to see I am against anyone making a gesture against racism but I don't like a campaign that everyone should support being hijacked by extremists.
But tbh there isn't a cause that Marxists won't hijack.
Racism, abolish capitalism.
Climate change, abolish capitalism.
Got a new virus, abolish capitalism.
Car wont start abolish capitalism.

As for associated bits that this whole BLM thing has hijacked.
Do the police kill black people in excess of white people. The data on that is at best inconclusive.
Should we ensure our police do not hire thugs, of course.

Is English football racist? No.
Was it? Yes to a point.
Are there bigots in Britain and go to football? Yes there is a tiny miniscule number. There always will be, haters have got to hate.

But if footballers want to really tackle racism then give up their million pound boot deals with Nike who exploit black labour.
Supporting an organisation that want to hamstring the police from protecting their 30 bedroom mansions might not be the best way forward so find another gesture.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

I have never said I have a problem with unelected bureaucrats. Many others have. Nor do I care what a bureaucrats religious, political or sexual leanings might be as long as they do the job they are appointed to with competence.

So if a senior civil servant was openly a member of the BNP you would fully support them if they were good at their job?
Really?

You are the one who see's 'red's under the bed' at every opportunity, politicises everything, bemoans unelected bureaucrats at every opportunity but only those YOU define as 'extreme'. You are judge jury and executioner. Yet given you judge things like the England football and the 100s of millions of ordinary people globally who took to the streets in the aftermath of Floyd George's murder as being puppets and in thrall or brainwashed by marxists extremists that want to enslave everyone, despite all common sense and what they themselves actually say or anything else besides, your judgment seems pretty flawed from where I am sitting.

She isn't under the bed, she is jumping up and down on the bed.

100s of millions? I don't think so mate. It'll be the same rent a crowd that think taking Palestinian flags to a vigil for a murdered girl is the must have accessory.

In reality it was the usual MO;

"A policeman has killed someone"

"Let's take to the streets"

"The victim was white"

"Abort abort"

"Got a live one, a policeman has killed a black person"

"Lets take to the streets"

"The black victim was waving a gun around"

"Doesn't matter they should have gone up to him and used minimal force, I'm not calling another one off"

"The police officer who shot him was black"

"FFS"

"Sasha Johnson has been shot"

"Finally!!! Amplify amplify!"

"She was shot by a black gang"

"FFS"

"A lot of black people seem to be getting killed by black gangs do you think we should expand the campaign a bit?"

"Fascist"

[erol]

BLM are a Marxist organisation.

That is exactly your problem. BLM is overwhelmingly an idea. The idea that your statistical outcomes for education, for employment, for how you are treated by the police, by the courts, by security guards when you walk in to a shop and a thousands other things, should not be defined to any material degree simply by what race or ethnicity you may come from. Of the 100's of millions of ordinary people who took to the streets through to the England players , how many did so in support of this idea vs how many signed up and joined an organisation you judge as Marxist ? All you can see and talk about is the latter whilst ignoring and targeting the former as being the later or in support of it when that is just not true. Your anti racism credentials are as tiny in proportion to your 'anti leftism' credentials to a similarly massively skewed proportion imo.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

BLM is overwhelmingly an idea. The idea that your statistical outcomes for education, for employment, for how you are treated by the police, by the courts, by security guards when you walk in to a shop and a thousands other things, should not be defined to any material degree simply by what race or ethnicity you may come from. Of the 100's of millions of ordinary people who took to the streets through to the England players

And the ending Capitalism? Just a happy coincidence that?
Still going with the 100s of millions?
Why not go for billions?

As for the footballers, as a rule they aren’t the sharpest knives in the draw and in these days of cancel culture and organised social media pile ons they are probably terrified not to go along with it.

Again no problem with them making a gesture but it seems VERY VERY important to you that it’s a BLM gesture rather than another anti racist gesture like the gesture the Croatian players made?
Bit like you can only believe in god if you believe in my religion.

But it’s all about narrative. I assume you were in favour of ‘The Anti Fascist Wall’ in Berlin

And if Black Lives Matter why the complete silence on deaths by knife crime and gang violence which make the innocent black lives lost to police violence a rounding error.

[erol]

BLM is overwhelmingly an idea. The idea that your statistical outcomes for education, for employment, for how you are treated by the police, by the courts, by security guards when you walk in to a shop and a thousands other things, should not be defined to any material degree simply by what race or ethnicity you may come from. Of the 100's of millions of ordinary people who took to the streets through to the England players

And the ending Capitalism? Just a happy coincidence that?
Still going with the 100s of millions?
Why not go for billions?

You just do the same thing over and over. That vast numbers of ordinary every day people, significant numbers of which had never been a protest before, did so overwhelmingly in support of the idea that we still have not done enough yet to remove negative outcomes based purely on perceived ethnicity in countless countries across the globe is to me just a matter of historical fact. Yet all you see is, all you want to see and probably all you can see and all you can talk about is 'leftist' and 'marxists' who want to 'destroy capitalism'.

As for the footballers, as a rule they aren’t the sharpest knives in the draw and in these days of cancel culture and organised social media pile ons they are probably terrified not to go along with it.

Patronising, insulting and pejorative claptrap imo. What I see in this England team from Southgate downwards is an honesty and integrity and solidarity for each other and the courage to stick to their principles despite the culture war attacks on them from the likes of you through to elected leaders like Priti Patel. No doubt you would prefer them to be terrified in to submission by such culture war attacks but all the evidence is that they are not going to be cowed in such a manner.

Again no problem with them making a gesture but it seems VERY VERY important to you that it’s a BLM gesture rather than another anti racist gesture like the gesture the Croatian players made?

YOU are the one that claims. despite all sense and reason or evidence, that it is a BLM matter gesture and nothing they or anyone else can say will change that warped perspective of yours. It is an anti racism gesture. It is nothing to do with BLM the ORGNAISATION and everything to do with BLM the IDEA. The idea that we have not yet done enough, despite the progress made so far, to remove the material statistical negative outcomes based purely on perceived ethnic background and nothing else.

But it’s all about narrative. I assume you were in favour of ‘The Anti Fascist Wall’ in Berlin

No for YOU it's all about 'narrative'. That is your problem. For the overwhelming majority of millions globally that supported and support the IDEA that is the BLM movement, the England team included, it is nothing to do with 'narrative' and everything to do with accepting the reality that we have not yet reach the goal of building a society where it really is statically irrelevant what ethnic back ground you come from and wanting to make a stand. It is YOUR failing that you can only process the world in terms of 'narrative' at the expense of everything else and actual reality.

And if Black Lives Matter why the complete silence on deaths by knife crime and gang violence which make the innocent black lives lost to police violence a rounding error.

That you may have a statically greater chance of being a victim of knife crime for no other reason than your ethnic background is just one of the countless negative outcomes that IS an inseparable part of the IDEA that is BLM. I want to strive for a society where you chance of being a victim of knife crime is same what ever ethnic background you come from. Just as I want one where your employment and educational opportunities are the same, where how you are treated by courts and police and institutions and in general is statistically the same. To care about the idea BLM IS to care about knife crime as far as it disproportionately effects certain ethnic groups more than others.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Time for tv I’ll come back to you Erol

[erol]

Had Corbyn had hired him and he delivered them electoral success I have no doubt you would have kept your powder dry on Cummings.

No of course you have no doubt I would have done what you DID DO because you did do it. But here is the thing. I am NOT you and whilst I have my fair share of weaknesses and failings they are not the same ones as you. Turning everything in to a binary culture war between 'left and right' is not one of my failings. It is one of yours. Just because you can not see the world in any other way does not mean no else can see it in different ways.

Just as I understand that you can support anti racism and not support the organisational entities that call themselves BLM so too I understand that you can actually be genuinely be outraged at the behaviour of a government advisor and then the governments determination to protect and support such behaviour for purely party and not national reasons, regardless of which political side that government is on and not just pretend to be outraged.

So I refute you claim that had it been Milne that did what Cummings did and then a Corbyn government that went on to try and protect him, given how crucial getting the public on board with the restrictions was at that time, I would have behaved as you DID behave. Some things are bigger than you binary left right narratives. Some things are just wrong regardless of if its the left or the right that does them. Some of us CAN make
judgments and feel genuine outraged outside of your left / right culture war.

I personally liked him because being successful and a danger he really boiled the pee of you and others.

I do not like him but I did get some amusement from seeing how much political capital Johnson spent on trying to defend the indefensible for him and how many hoops people like you jumped through to excuse the inexcusable because he was so vital to the Tories only to see him then go and piss all over both of you in such a short space of time.

Honest enough for you? I'll leave you to blow smoke up everyones backsides with the his actions cost millions of lives narrative.

I talked about how his and then the governments actions materially damaged the governments efforts around public messaging, something that is indisputable imo and you turn that in to me claiming it cost millions of lives. Honest lol. Blowing smoke up people backsides lol.

Time for bed. I may well not be finished with you yet.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

You just do the same thing over and over. That vast numbers of ordinary every day people, significant numbers of which had never been a protest before, did so overwhelmingly in support of the idea that we still have not done enough yet to remove negative outcomes based purely on perceived ethnicity in countless countries across the globe is to me just a matter of historical fact. Yet all you see is, all you want to see and probably all you can see and all you can talk about is 'leftist' and 'marxists' who want to 'destroy capitalism'.

Is it one of the aims of the BLM movement to end Capitalism? It's really a yes or no question, I know you will bury your answer in 30 paragraphs of waffle so please highlight the bit where you do or if you do answer the question.
I note we've gone from 100s of millions to vast numbers

YOU are the one that claims. despite all sense and reason or evidence, that it is a BLM matter gesture and nothing they or anyone else can say will change that warped perspective of yours. It is an anti racism gesture. It is nothing to do with BLM the ORGNAISATION and everything to do with BLM the IDEA. The idea that we have not yet done enough, despite the progress made so far, to remove the material statistical negative outcomes based purely on perceived ethnic background and nothing else.

These protests by footballers started in premiership games, yes?

All the England squad bar one play in the premiership so it wouldn't be a stretch to ssay it is a continuation of the same campaign, fair?

Here is a picture of the badge that all the premiership players had sown onto their shirt. Its not anti racism, its supporting BLM the organisation. Now I don't doubt that the players have little idea about the organisation bar its alleged anti racist credentials and are innocently supporting a single aim like those 'billions' of marchers worldwide but they are supporting an organisation that was formed by marxists and is marxist and has marxist beliefs as part of its manifesto.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

So I refute you claim that had it been Milne that did what Cummings did and then a Corbyn government that went on to try and protect him, given how crucial getting the public on board with the restrictions was at that time, I would have behaved as you DID behave. Some things are bigger than you binary left right narratives. Some things are just wrong regardless of if its the left or the right that does them. Some of us CAN make
judgments and feel genuine outraged outside of your left / right culture war.

Well you've pretty much said you would be happy for a fascist to hold a high unelected office if he was good at his job to win a debating point so I'm not sure what you would say tbh.

As for getting the public on board, people do what they want to do as a rule.
You can manipulate some but by and large people do what they want if its legal and Cummings didn't break the law. I personally have never thought i'll hijack a plane because I saw Con Air or shoot up an army barracks because I enjoyed The Wild Bunch. So all that nonsense was part of the pile on. Some people were too terrified to go out their house and some didn't buy into it and wasn't even curteous enough to show empathy for others feelings. Nothing to do with Cummings and his actions.

Anyhow re Cummings who was yesterday's chip paper until he started to put the boot into Johnson. We didn't believe a word that he said during the whole covid thing or anything during the leave campaign or the Tory election campaign. But now he is putting the boot into Johnson Cummings words have become gilt edged and the very standard of truth.

It's so obvious it's hilarious,

[erol]

Is it one of the aims of the BLM movement to end Capitalism?

No

https://www.tampabay.com/news/nation-wo ... -movement/

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Is it one of the aims of the BLM movement to end Capitalism?

No

https://www.tampabay.com/news/nation-wo ... -movement/

The first sentence did it for me.
"Black Lives Matters has grown into a national anti-racism movement broadly supported by Americans, few of whom would identify themselves as Marxist."

Two of the three founders are Marxist, their words not mine.

https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/blm-co-fo ... d-marxist/

I mean I've always thought not enough credit was given to Fred West on his gardening but........

[EnjoyingTheSun]

BLM was formed by 3 people, 2 of whom were Marxists. Part of their beliefs to improve the lot of black people is to end Capitalism which by some incredible coincidence happens to align with what Marxists want.
Now that could be a very sincere belief and in a world where everyone is equal then there will be no racism. It’s nonsense of course. Below are links to the few remaining Communist countries who also have their own problems with racism.
To separate the Marxism from BLM would be like pointing out the sterling work the Nazis did with green issues, banning fox hunting and building roads and ignoring other stuff.
Marxism like fascism is an extremist belief which to date historically has killed millions and eroded the freedom of everyone bar an elite in countries where it has been practiced.
So is Marxism potentially a better system for black people? Would their lives improve under Marxism? Would giving up some freedom actually enhance their lives? I can’t see how.
Capitalism has enormous faults and does require safety nets to help those who can’t help themselves. I’m all for giving people a hand up but not a hand out.
Capitalism is to its opponents a cynical system where money is king.
But as American capitalists will tell you the only colour that matters is green. If there is a black person who a dyed in the wool capitalist thinks is more financially beneficial for him to hire then that’s who he will hire.
Premiership football owners aren’t hiring black footballers for moral reasons they are hiring them because they are very good footballers who will help them win and make money. Its 100% results driven as all sports are. And in sports black people have thrived. They dominate football, athletics, basketball, American football etc etc all disciplines where if you don’t perform you are out of the team. In those sports they don’t have some person putting his arm around their shoulder telling them they will inevitably fail because their descendants might have been slaves.
Some say yes but they don’t get other opportunities that white athletes would get because of their colour. But that argument crumbles when you look at Tiger Woods and Michael Jordan. They have earned money in endorsements that dwarf and other athlete white or black. Muhammed Ali would have smashed their figures into oblivion had endorsements been as prevalent in his heyday and he shown an iota of business sense.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/09/09/cu ... ounces-us/

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/democr ... venezuela/

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/theconve ... t-it-82199

https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/02/18/cov ... -runs-deep

https://foreignpolicy.com/2010/02/11/no ... e-problem/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Vietnam

https://www.fidh.org/en/region/asia/lao ... es-remains

[erol]

Is it one of the aims of the BLM movement to end Capitalism?

No

https://www.tampabay.com/news/nation-wo ... -movement/

The first sentence did it for me.
"Black Lives Matters has grown into a national anti-racism movement broadly supported by Americans, few of whom would identify themselves as Marxist."

Two of the three founders are Marxist, their words not mine.

https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/blm-co-fo ... d-marxist/

I mean I've always thought not enough credit was given to Fred West on his gardening but........

And the penultimate paragraph says it all for me

“I am fairly convinced these are mostly attempts to smear anti-racist activists. I think in some media, ‘Marxist’ is dog-whistle for something horrible, like ‘Nazi’, and thus enables to delegitimize/dehumanize them,” Miriyam Aouragh, a lecturer at the London-based Westminster School of Media and Communication, told PolitiFact.

Two of the founders of the original BLM group were Marxist yet even then it was not and has never been a stated aim of that group to 'end capitalism'. The aims of the group they set up have always been public and they are nothing to do with Marxism or ending capitalism and everything to do with confronting racism.

But even those facts miss the point. In response to publishing of the video of George Floyd being murdered in broad day light in front of witness by a white police officer, something happened. A phenomenon, the likes of which I had not seen in my lifetime. People started going on to the streets in the midst of a pandemic. In city after city after city. In country after country. In the US, in the UK across Europe and Australasia. Globally. People of all ages , of all races and class. It was a phenomenon. Not just in big cities but also in places like St Albans. St fooking Albans for pete's sake ! Over 1000 people standing politely, socially distanced and NONE of this was to do with Marxism or 'ending capitalism'. In towns from Ledbury to Prestwich, Darlington to Blackpool Black Lives Matter protests sprang up across the country despite the pandemic. Literally hundreds of demonstrations in the UK alone and the vast majority of happening organically by word of mouth and social media without experienced organisers driving them. A genuine global phenomenon NONE of which had anything to do with Marxism. Yet all you with your culture war myopia can do piss all over that and write it off as 'Marxists trying to end capitalism'. Over and over. Pro actively. Why do you do this ? What is wrong with you ?

None of this is new. Martin Luther King - communist, subversive, marxist. Gandhi - communist , subversive, marxist. Gareth Southgate - communist, subversive , marxist. It is risible.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

‘Marxist’ is dog-whistle for something horrible, like ‘Nazi’, and thus enables to delegitimize/dehumanize them,”

OK Nazism is horrible, no argument there but Marxism is ok?
Now we're getting to it
To me they are both as bad as each other same results people die and lose their freedom. If Marxism is the answer to fascism then we are asking the wrong question.
So you are in favour of Marxism? I ask knowing I'm never going to get a clear answer while my bum still has a hole in it but god loves a trier

In response to publishing of the video of George Floyd being murdered in broad day light in front of witness by a white police officer, something happened. A phenomenon, the likes of which I had not seen in my lifetime.

BLM started In July 2013 after the acquittal of George Zimmerman.

Apparently George Zimmerman must identify as a white man but lets not spoil the narrative here. The narrative is white people are arbitrarily killing black people right?
The George Floyd case was horrendous and a thuggish police officer is now in prison for a very long time. There were other police officers in attendance who weren't white but lets keep this as a white v black thing I guess.

As for the phenomenon billions of people blah blah if you'd have paid attention you'd have seen pretty much the same lot doing an extinction rebellion protest. Yes there were a lot of people protesting that this should not have happened because the police should not be hiring thugs who may potentially kill people and they guy had some form. I'm not seeing that as a racial thing tbh I wouldn't have been happy had he killed a white person but I do know there wouldn't have been a protest organised that I could have leant my support.


.

[erol]

As for the phenomenon billions of people blah blah if you'd have paid attention you'd have seen pretty much the same lot doing an extinction rebellion protest.

This is just not true. One of things that made these protest so different was exactly because they were not just the same 'extinction rebellion' lot with a different banner. You may not know St Albans as I know it but I can assure there has NEVER been an extinction rebellion or occupy protest there, ever. BLM, the phenomenon, WAS different and that I suspect is your real issue with it that leads you to have to attack and dismiss it in the risible (imo) way that you do.

I know you do not get it. I am here to help you. I do have an idea as to how I might help you get it if and when I can find the time, so do not worry. Probably will not work, probably you are too far gone but I will, if and when I have the time, try because nothing ventured nothing gained. I have never been afraid of the long shot.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Again Erol for the 500th time no problem with anti racism big problem with BLM. No problem with people banning fox hunting tbh but if taking on the rest of the Nazi manifesto was the way forward let’s look at another way.
Unless you think Marxism is the way forward of course if that’s your opinion you’re entitled to it but you forgot to answer that question.