Brit expats leaving Spain 'in droves'

[TAC]

I read many of those who are leaving Spain are now flocking to Portugal where the rules are more relaxed and far cheaper to live

[erol]

It does not seem like rocket science to me. If you make the requirements for residency more onerous then less people will take up such residency. Brexit made the requirements for residency more onerous for UK citizens wanting to reside in EU member states. So less people are doing that now than before Brexit. Not rocket science. Seems simple and obvious to me both before and after the fact.

[Geoff1131]

Erol, the residency requirements to live in the TRNC are not exactly pain free. But those of us who choose to live here go along with them and comply with the regs. As i see it, if you want to live in another country, just follow the rules and you should be allowed to live there. No need for the mass exodus or blaming it on Brexit.

[waddo]

Now the "Droves" are "Flocking" - whatever next? Must be the pandemic that has caused the whole thing world wide I suppose, or is there some other word that can be used? I see UK has come up with another "Build Back Better" idea of growing your own clothes - plant flax and bring back the good old days of pre 1945 - I give up!

Never mind, when the new Government comes into power over here everything will be rosy and the sun will still shine every day - well almost every day. Have a great day out there and enjoy life, just watch out for all the droves and flocks arriving by boat in the future!!!

Only 82 more days to my next Big Mac - lol.

[erol]

It is not rocket science.

Make it more onerous for UK citizens to be resident somewhere and less such UK citizens will make that choice as a result. EU, TRNC or anywhere.

That is not blaming it on Brexit. That is just accepting reality. Try it maybe.

[benjaminbutton]

Erol is quite right. Watched a documentary a couple of days ago where the reverse of making it difficult to be a resident. It was about young men in particular "flocking" (there you go again) to French coast and clambering aboard blow up rafts during the night It was terribly sad as they all, without exception, believed what they had been told. They would be given a house, a job, medical treatment, never be cold or hungry again, clothed. Make it difficult to a resident, and people will eventually leave, make the streets paved with gold and people will enter (or try to). Its always been the same and ever will be.

[erol]

That is a different issue imo. I am talking about the effects of making legal residency in a country easier or harder as it relates to how many people make such a choice.

If people (still) want to believe and push a narrative that you can chose to make residency in other countries more onerous for UK citizens, without that choice having any impact on how many UK citizens take up such residency, that is up to them.

for me it is the same old boring cake and eat it fantasies that I personally am sick to death of.

[PoshinDevon]

It is not rocket science.

Make it more onerous for UK citizens to be resident somewhere and less such UK citizens will make that choice as a result. EU, TRNC or anywhere.

That is not blaming it on Brexit. That is just accepting reality. Try it maybe.

I really don’t think it is that onerous at all. Is it really that much more difficult, I think not.

Those that have been living and working “lawfully” in Spain will have no issues. In the main it is those that have lived on the “edge” so to speak who will be leaving.

Complying with the regulations of your host country in order to remain makes perfect sense.

[erol]

I really don’t think it is that onerous at all. Is it really that much more difficult, I think not.

My point is nothing to do with if it is now 'that' onerous for you. It is more onerous than before. That to me is unarguable. It may not have reached 'that' onerous for you but it has for others. Hence , reports that some are leaving post the changes. That is what is happening. It is more difficult than it was before and thus there is a decrease in the volumes of those doing it. It is not rocket science.

[Geoff1131]

And of course people do have a choice. Some may decide to go down the legal route and do what they need to do to stay in Spain. Others for whatever reason will decide to leave the country and find another place to call home. We will never know the reasons why each set of people choose.

[Groucho]

Erol, that's four times you've said it's not rocket science.... are you sure?

[kerry 6138]

https://www.thelocal.es/20201222/brexit ... e-staying/

According to the website of Spain’s Secretary of State for Migration, the number of UK citizens with Spanish residence permits increased by 8.2 percent from June 2018 to June 2019.
The rate then increased a further 5.8 percent from June 2019 to June 2020, a rise of 19,977 British residents.

“More than 50,000 British citizens have applied for the new TIE card,”

How many have left?

This information is harder to come by in official sources and would rely on the premise that all Britons leaving Spain for good before Brexit were cancelling their green residency documents, a document which doesn’t expire but will no doubt eventually be replaced by the TIE, which does.

That means that until then it may be hard to get an accurate idea of how many Britons have left over the course of the last year and since the Brexit vote, as it would depend on factors such as whether it’s residency documents or padrón registration at town halls which is used.

[kerry 6138]

Erol, the residency requirements to live in the TRNC are not exactly pain free. But those of us who choose to live here go along with them and comply with the regs. As i see it, if you want to live in another country, just follow the rules and you should be allowed to live there. No need for the mass exodus or blaming it on Brexit.

https://www.thelocal.es/20201222/brexit ... e-staying/
Did Brexit really spur thousands of Brits to stop being residents in Spain or could other measures such as the asset declaration law that was passed by the Spanish government in 2013 have had a bigger impact?

The drop in recent years of Brits registered as having their home address in towns and cities in Spain could have been also a result of their unwillingness to fill in asset declarations, or as a result of missing the deadline, or other fiscal and other matters, rather than solely because of Brexit.

Many took themselves off the padrón but carried on living in Spain.

[PoshinDevon]

I really don’t think it is that onerous at all. Is it really that much more difficult, I think not.

My point is nothing to do with if it is now 'that' onerous for you. It is more onerous than before. That to me is unarguable. It may not have reached 'that' onerous for you but it has for others. Hence , reports that some are leaving post the changes. That is what is happening. It is more difficult than it was before and thus there is a decrease in the volumes of those doing it. It is not rocket science.

My point is that for those that lawfully reside and work in Spain it is not onerous. It is very onerous for those that perhaps never bothered following the regulations in place.

More difficult? Not sure it is that much more difficult. Indeed if filling in a bit of paper or ticking a box makes it more difficult then you would question the commitment of those having to comply.

I want to know the real reasons for the supposed report of numbers leaving in droves or being ejected from Spain. It isn’t rocket science.

No one has posted concrete evidence with detailed reasons.

[erol]

make it harder for UK citizens to reside in EU countries but believe that having made it harder than it was before, this has had no actual material impact on how many then chose to do so.

fantasy land imo.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

I read many of those who are leaving Spain are now flocking to Portugal where the rules are more relaxed and far cheaper to live

That'll be because it's not in the EU! Oh wait a minute.....

[EnjoyingTheSun]

As I said before for those who are devastated at the loss of 'freedom of movement' just give this a thought.

It would be very convenient to have keys to everyone in your street's home, even if you barely know them.
if you run out of tea bags or a light bulb goes and the shops aren't open you could simply let yourselves into their house if they do not answer and help yourself to a spare light bulb or half a dozen tea bags. After all you'll replace them as soon as the shops open won't you? I'm sure they won't mind after all we all get emergencies.

It's certainly convenient and might be a great ice breaker to get to know them better.

One problem.

For them to give you keys to their home they will expect keys to your home.

Still keen?

[PoshinDevon]

make it harder for UK citizens to reside in EU countries but believe that having made it harder than it was before, this has had no actual material impact on how many then chose to do so.

fantasy land imo.

I think the crux of our disagreement is what constitutes “harder”.

Again I would question the commitment to stay, plus having perhaps lived under the radar and are now being found out.

A country enforcing its own rules and regulations about living and working in the country…. Who would have thought it! Terrible idea of course and we will show them by leaving in droves.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

That means that until then it may be hard to get an accurate idea of how many Britons have left over the course of the last year and since the Brexit vote, as it would depend on factors such as whether it’s residency documents or padrón registration at town halls which is used.

Why let facts spoil the Brexit has ruined people’s lives narrative?

[erol]

one specific - before brexit there was no income threshold for a uk citizen to be legally resident in spain. now there is. to believe or pretend this change affects no one , is not rational to my mind.

but it is not about the specifics really. It feels like I am unable to get any consensus even on the idea or principal that if you make something harder chances are less people will chose to do it. At any degree and by degree. That indicates something to me.

[erol]

That means that until then it may be hard to get an accurate idea of how many Britons have left over the course of the last year and since the Brexit vote, as it would depend on factors such as whether it’s residency documents or padrón registration at town halls which is used.

Why let facts spoil the Brexit has ruined people’s lives narrative?

The narrative that nothing negative for anyone is or could ever be a consequence of Brexit is no different and just as boring.

If people jumping through hoops to deny or ignore the simplicity of the idea that if you make something harder less people will chose to do it does not set you famous 'bullshit meter' blaring then it is time you got a new meter imo.

[Hector]

My thoughts were around the difficulties and obstacles put in place by the NC government for expats wanting to either live in NC or like myself, just be 'swallows'. I can't see what the problem was with those of us over 60 who used to come and go through the year. We were duly clocked 'in & out' at the border so it was known when we were in NC. I think that we only contributed financially to the local economy, we certainly didn't take anything out financially. Expats certainly contributed with cancer & animal charities etc. and still do.

The 90 in 180 days visas on both sides of the border are a real obstacle and also the residency bureaucracy where swallows aren't physically in the country long enough, for appointments for visiting the government offices and getting the visa.

Whilst there are always valid reasons for expats returning to the UK i.e health, family etc. the residence and visa rules just add to that.

I published the newspaper article about Spain just to illustrate the negative effects that residency & visa rules are having on expats who can no longer come and go as they please. I think local businesses in Spain will be hit hard i.e. around Benidorm where pensioners may spend the winter months or have a holiday home. No problem if other EU pensioners take up the slack but I doubt that they will be the same as the Brits. I can see the same happening in NC.

[Geoff1131]

Just went on a website and asked what the entry requirements were for an EU national to go and reside in Spain. The requirements are , you have to have a job offer, or be a full time student, or you have to show enough of an income so you will not be a burden on the Spanish State. So there you have it. UK pensioners are not being treated any differently that people from inside the EU. Spain is just protecting itself from freeloaders from whichever country they are from. So Brexit has nothing at all to do with why anyone would have to leave Spain. Those from inside the EU who do not meet the entry regs will also be unwelcome.

[Up the Reds.]

Hector I agree generally with your points. Every sovereign country or state is entitled to create whatever immigration rules it likes but I know as matter FACT that the cancellation of the 'gentlemans agreement' meant that several of my friends who arrived in the millenium TRNC left. They left not for the UK but for more 'friendly beaurocracy' elsewhere. Currently Residency applications here are a nightmare for the elderly, those who are long term 'temporary residents'. I applied recently and at the Girne Police (waiting whilst it was coffee break) I was in conversation with 4 other applicants each of who were very unhappy about the whole process and in particular the fact that the Immigration Office in Lefkosa was almost impossible to contact either by telephone or e mail (does anyone know an e mail address))?? Of course, if we don't like it we can leave and take our discontent with us but sure as hell that will not help the TRNC and it's economy. IMHO !!

[erol]

So there you have it. UK pensioners are not being treated any differently that people from inside the EU. Spain is just protecting itself from freeloaders from whichever country they are from. So Brexit has nothing at all to do with why anyone would have to leave Spain. Those from inside the EU who do not meet the entry regs will also be unwelcome.

You are just wrong in my understanding. Before Brexit the requirements on a UK citizen wanting to reside in Spain were no different than a UK citizen wanting to move residence from England to Wales or Scotland. Any EU citizen has the right to reside in Spain regardless of income levels or employment status or almost anything else. Just like moving from Wales to Scotland. UK citizens no longer have these rights. To say they are treated the same makes no sense to me what so ever. They so clearly are NOT treated the same at all.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

The narrative that nothing negative for anyone is or could ever be a consequence of Brexit is no different and just as boring.

If people jumping through hoops to deny or ignore the simplicity of the idea that if you make something harder less people will chose to do it does not set you famous 'bullshit meter' blaring then it is time you got a new meter imo.

There will be negatives and positives it is far too soon to tell and with covid there is one hell of a variable thrown in.
I'm still waiting to see any clear data on the 'droves.'
It is interesting that you will always ignore other 'simplistic ideas' when it suits such as if we get knives of the street it might just cut down on knife crime etc etc etc.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

one specific - before brexit there was no income threshold for a uk citizen to be legally resident in spain. now there is. to believe or pretend this change affects no one , is not rational to my mind.

but it is not about the specifics really. It feels like I am unable to get any consensus even on the idea or principal that if you make something harder chances are less people will chose to do it. At any degree and by degree. That indicates something to me.

So because we won't give them a front door key, they won't give us one?
Seems reasonalbe to me.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

You are just wrong in my understanding.

I can only assume that Waz is always correct by your understanding?
I have to surmise that as I can never remember you picking him up on some of his more outlandish claims?
Unless of course you are happy to let him spout off as it suits your agenda and obviously your hands are always clean because you can always say "that's his words not mine."
Ditto an awful lot of other topics.
It's subtle but pretty transparent.

[Proudsprey]

https://www.immigrate-spain.com/residency-in-spain

"Types of visas leading to permanent residency in Spain in 2021

Spain is one of the most welcoming European countries and as a member of the European Union, it offers specific facilities to citizens of other member states who want to relocate here. EU citizens do not need a visa when moving to Spain as they are only required to register with the local police office in the city they will reside.

Non-EU citizens, on the other hand, are required to complete various formalities that allow them to obtain temporary residence and then a permanent residency in Spain. Here are the main types of visas which lead to obtaining a permanent residence permit in this country:

* employment visas which is one of the safest ways to obtain permanent residency in this country;
* student visas based on which foreign students can relocate to Spain temporarily and then permanently;
* non-lucrative visas which are available for foreigners seeking to retire to Spain provided that they have sufficient financial means to support themselves;
* investment visas which are available foreign entrepreneurs and high net worth individuals immigrating to Spain.

Any of these visas can be used for obtaining permanent residency in Spain as long as the particular requirements and responsibilities coming which each type of residence permit are respected."

Thought I'd throw this into the fire. It's an immigration lawyer's website, so I'd hope they kinda know what they're selling, I mean saying.

[kerry 6138]

So there you have it. UK pensioners are not being treated any differently that people from inside the EU. Spain is just protecting itself from freeloaders from whichever country they are from. So Brexit has nothing at all to do with why anyone would have to leave Spain. Those from inside the EU who do not meet the entry regs will also be unwelcome.

You are just wrong in my understanding. Before Brexit the requirements on a UK citizen wanting to reside in Spain were no different than a UK citizen wanting to move residence from England to Wales or Scotland. Any EU citizen has the right to reside in Spain regardless of income levels or employment status or almost anything else. Just like moving from Wales to Scotland. UK citizens no longer have these rights. To say they are treated the same makes no sense to me what so ever. They so clearly are NOT treated the same at all.

https://ec.europa.eu/info/policies/just ... sidence_en
EU citizens can live in another EU country for up to three months without any requirements other than holding a valid identity card or passport
In order to stay in another EU country for more than three months, EU citizens have to meet certain conditions depending on their status (e.g. worker, student, etc.) and they may also be asked to comply with administrative formalities
EU citizens have the right to permanent residence in another EU country after legally residing there continuously for five years. They may be temporarily absent (e.g. for illness, study or posting)

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content ... 3:0837:FIN

After the first three months, EU citizens need to fulfil certain conditions, depending on their status in the host country, to have the right to reside. Students and other economically non-active persons, such as retired persons, and their families have the right to reside for longer than three months only if they have comprehensive health insurance and sufficient financial resources for themselves and their family so as not to become a burden on the host Member State’s social assistance system. Jobseekers can reside for up to six months without conditions and possibly longer if they show that they have a genuine chance of finding a job.

[Geoff1131]

kerry 6138, yes thats pretty much the same info i read. So it looks like i was not wrong erol. I will wait for your apology, no rush.

[erol]

kerry 6138, yes thats pretty much the same info i read. So it looks like i was not wrong erol. I will wait for your apology, no rush.

So you believe that EU citizens right to reside in a different EU member state is no different than for citizens of non EU members like the UK ? Is that your understanding ? That being in or out of the EU makes no difference to how easy or difficult it is for you to reside in an EU country and visa versa for EU citizens residing in the UK ? You think it is all the same as it was before Brexit ?

Sorry I remain convinced that is just not correct.

I think the simple reality is It is harder today for UK citizens to obtain residency in EU states post Brexit than it was before. If you make something harder for people , less people will chose to do it. It is not rocket science.

[Geoff1131]

erol, ok have it your way. The official websites must be wrong then.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

So it looks like i was not wrong erol. I will wait for your apology, no rush.

Good luck there. If you have the correct opinion in Erol’s opinion then you can say “we will all turn into lizards” and he will remain silent. “His words not mine.” Challenge the agenda and he will challenge a comma in your posts.

[Geoff1131]

I'm sure erol has just popped off to check what the official websites from the Spanish authorities are saying, before he comes back and admits to being wrong. He will be along very soon i am certain of that. I think!!!!

[PoshinDevon]

kerry 6138, yes thats pretty much the same info i read. So it looks like i was not wrong erol. I will wait for your apology, no rush.

So you believe that EU citizens right to reside in a different EU member state is no different than for citizens of non EU members like the UK ? Is that your understanding ? That being in or out of the EU makes no difference to how easy or difficult it is for you to reside in an EU country and visa versa for EU citizens residing in the UK ? You think it is all the same as it was before Brexit ?

Sorry I remain convinced that is just not correct.

I think the simple reality is It is harder today for UK citizens to obtain residency in EU states post Brexit than it was before. If you make something harder for people , less people will chose to do it. It is not rocket science.

The topic title refers to those leaving Spain in droves. This to me indicates they are or where already in Spain.

The way I see it is that some (I don’t know the numbers) of U.K. citizens living and working lawfully in Spain will have complied with whatever regulations were in place. If they have already been in Spain 5 years there is no real “onerous” issues. If they have been there lawfully less than 5 years then the number of years they have been there count towards the 5 years.

Those who were not living lawfully will have a problem and yes may well need to leave.

For those non EU citizens including now the U.K. who are now looking to move to Spain to retire, live or work need to comply with the regulations in place. It’s simple really….. if you cannot meet the criteria, you should not be considering Spain.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

I'm sure erol has just popped off to check what the official websites from the Spanish authorities are saying, before he comes back and admits to being wrong. He will be along very soon i am certain of that. I think!!!!

Probably searching for another unimpeachable source like the estate agent in the original article. I’ve never known one of them lie. I assume we are going to get confirmation from a gypsy tarmacer.

[erol]

I'm sure erol has just popped off to check what the official websites from the Spanish authorities are saying, before he comes back and admits to being wrong. He will be along very soon i am certain of that. I think!!!!

Probably searching for another unimpeachable source like the estate agent in the original article. I’ve never known one of them lie. I assume we are going to get confirmation from a gypsy tarmacer.

All I see is people being forced in to absurdity in order to support their faith based belief in Brexit.

On the one hand we have the 'argument' that actually post Brexit nothing has changed in terms of the requirements on UK citizens wanting to live in EU countries or visa versa. On the other hand the necessity to stop uncontrolled immigration in to the UK from the EU was a major argument as to why the UK had to leave the EU.

To me I just see absurdity. Mental contortions necessary to keep what was always a faith based belief. Just another form of cake and eat it as well.

Back to the beginning.

If you make something harder for people will the likely outcome be

a . makes no difference to number of people choosing to do this thing.
b. increases the number of people choosing to do this thing
c. reduces the number of people choosing to do this thing.

so far we have had views that the answer is / must be a or b. and we have also had arguments that Brexit has not made it harder for UK citizens to reside in EU countries or visa versa. absurd.

[PoshinDevon]

I'm sure erol has just popped off to check what the official websites from the Spanish authorities are saying, before he comes back and admits to being wrong. He will be along very soon i am certain of that. I think!!!!

Probably searching for another unimpeachable source like the estate agent in the original article. I’ve never known one of them lie. I assume we are going to get confirmation from a gypsy tarmacer.

All I see is people being forced in to absurdity in order to support their faith based belief in Brexit.

On the one hand we have the 'argument' that actually post Brexit nothing has changed in terms of the requirements on UK citizens wanting to live in EU countries or visa versa. On the other hand the necessity to stop uncontrolled immigration in to the UK from the EU was a major argument as to why the UK had to leave the EU.

To me I just see absurdity. Mental contortions necessary to keep what was always a faith based belief. Just another form of cake and eat it as well.

Back to the beginning.

If you make something harder for people will the likely outcome be

a . makes no difference to number of people choosing to do this thing.
b. increases the number of people choosing to do this thing
c. reduces the number of people choosing to do this thing.

so far we have had views that the answer is / must be a or b. and we have also had arguments that Brexit has not made it harder for UK citizens to reside in EU countries or visa versa. absurd.

I am asking for the real reasons people are supposedly leaving Spain in droves. Very easy to blame Brexit carte blanche. Let’s have the facts and not continue to hang everything on Brexit.

I am taking my information from a number of websites which detail the requirements for non EU citizens looking to live, work or retire in Spain. The living lawfully , 5 year qualification seems to me on the surface make the process of remaining indefinitely straight forward. The amount of money required also seems to me to be very reasonable . Plus of course health insurance will be needed.

There is of course another group who may well feel aggrieved if they have lived and worked lawfully in Spain for less than 5 years. It appears the initial funds required are substantially higher. However; once 5 years has been reached the amount reduced significantly. They could well be leaving, especially if they only have a basic pension or low paid job as their income. Again it’s Spain that has set the criteria to remain to ensure those wanting to remain are not a burden on the state.

We should really concentrate on those already in Spain pre Brexit and not cloud the issue by bringing in those that may be considering moving to Spain.

So why are they leaving in droves?

Certainly those who may have lived, worked or retired to Spain for many years, but never fully complied with the regulations in place won’t say. They were there unlawfully after all. They will just say it is Brexit, to much paperwork, things gave all changed or it’s not fair for some obscure reason.

Spain has set the rules for non EU citizens and they must all comply with them. Many countries have similar rules in place.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

so far we have had views that the answer is / must be a or b. and we have also had arguments that Brexit has not made it harder for UK citizens to reside in EU countries or visa versa. absurd.

How many are leaving compared with a normal year? Is it enough to qualify as droves?

Rules generally change, the EU is not adverse to a rule change, so is it a little more complicated or impossible?
When going through the residency process I found the added step to paying for the blood test at Koop bank both pointless and a pain but I didn’t start packing my bags.

I can see this being the usual creative maths exercise such as in “incidents of this are the fastest growing....”

Translated it means the incidents have doubled from one to a massive two so still minuscule.

[erol]

Droves is a media word. I never used it. The media sensationalise everything, it is part of the job. A headline that reads 'leaving in droves' means there is some evidence that numbers are reducing.

It is either harder than it was before Brexit or it is not. As a result of Brexit. If it is no different for UK citizens who want to reside and or work in EU countries, then that means Brexit has made no difference for EU citizens that want to reside and work in the UK.

Unless you chose to believe we negotiated an exit from the EU that gave us the ability to limit and control who and how many EU citizens could live and work in the UK but that had no material impact on UK citizens who want to live and work in EU countries. Cake and eat it.

It is simply absurd to me.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Unless you chose to believe we negotiated an exit from the EU that gave us the ability to limit and control who and how many EU citizens could live and work in the UK but that had no material impact on UK citizens who want to live and work in EU countries. Cake and eat it.

And I said that where?

Yes the media sensationalise things and if it suits their agenda then people won’t comment no matter how exaggerated and let it pass without comment. If an article is against their agenda they will nit pick that it was in fact 9,983 not 10,000 because they only care about facts and need to prove that this article is a pack of lies.

[waddo]

As somebody who has retired here, never intends to leave alive and follows the laws of this land, who cares that Brit expats are “flocking” or leaving Spain (wherever that is) in “droves” anyway! Does anyone in Spain talk about how difficult or easy it is to live here and how Brexit has hurt the expats here? Nobody who lives here - and I discount Swallows completely because they only want the best of both worlds anyway - can truly say that they are not aware of what “Might” happen in the future with Turkey, Greece, EU, et al! But carry on living here they do!

Spain has nothing to do with the TRNC, so why use it as a spring board for other subjects? Can we not stick to things that can affect us “Temporary” residents here? UK will not even acknowledge that there are Brits living here, in case they upset the EU, USA and countless other members of the UN! Brexit is done, the UK now has to live with its fallout as do its citizens who have relocated away from the UK - nobody wanted us before and nobody wants us now - nothing has changed.

Just suck it up and get on with the life you came here for, for as long as you can. Rant over!

[PoshinDevon]

We are swallows and for us; yes we do have the best of both worlds. We are indeed grateful for it.

Having lived, worked and spent many holidays on this island since 1970, I have always had a very keen interest in its history, culture and people. For all its frustrations it is still a fantastic place.

This topic could well have been titled “why are people leaving the TRNC”. I am sure there would be plenty of different opinions.

However; it’s about Spain and for me I am genuinely interested as to why it is being said that people are leaving in droves. I am averse to news outlets sensationalising something when there is no need. These sort of snap headlines often just serve to draw in the gullible.

I have no doubt people have been leaving Spain but just citing the reason as “because it’s more difficult” isn’t enough for me.

[kerry 6138]

Erol do you stand by your statement
You are just wrong in my understanding. Before Brexit the requirements on a UK citizen wanting to reside in Spain were no different than a UK citizen wanting to move residence from England to Wales or Scotland. Any EU citizen has the right to reside in Spain regardless of income levels or employment status or almost anything else. Just like moving from Wales to Scotland. UK citizens no longer have these rights. To say they are treated the same makes no sense to me what so ever. They so clearly are NOT treated the same at all.
Or do you concede there are rules which EU nationals should follow and different rules for 3rd country nationals, meanwhile real freedom of movement exits within the UK for nationals & legal residents.

[kibsolar1999]

to say brexit did not matter or even it was "not brexit only" is nonsense.

before brexit it was possible to stay, say, 4 or 5 month and another 2 or 3 even with a low income, eg, harvest some tomatoes and share live with some dogs and cats in a shed. nobody really cared when you exceeded a stay a bit and did not change your residency to your new home country.
now the 90/180 rule apply, "income requirements to become resident" are 3 or 4 times as high as before, and you need a health insurance.

"Covid" was no big issue, as it makes basically no diffenrence whether you need to stay at home in UK (and can not visit your family) or in spain. (but of course.. the health issue was a problem.. what happens if i get covid and where do i get a vaccination?)

brexit was , is and will be the coffin nail for many. how many, not sure...

[EnjoyingTheSun]

"Covid" was no big issue, as it makes basically no diffenrence whether you need to stay at home in UK (and can not visit your family) or in spain.

So if you wanted to visit the UK covid hasn’t made it more complicated or expensive?

You are obviously keen on the whole community thing. Give me your address and I’ll drop you my front door keys round and collect a set off you, OK?

In fact you need to get 6 sets cut because some others want to join in.
I can only bring 3 sets of keys from them Though because the other 3 don’t have houses.

[PoshinDevon]

to say brexit did not matter or even it was "not brexit only" is nonsense.

before brexit it was possible to stay, say, 4 or 5 month and another 2 or 3 even with a low income, eg, harvest some tomatoes and share live with some dogs and cats in a shed. nobody really cared when you exceeded a stay a bit and did not change your residency to your new home country.
now the 90/180 rule apply, "income requirements to become resident" are 3 or 4 times as high as before, and you need a health insurance.

"Covid" was no big issue, as it makes basically no diffenrence whether you need to stay at home in UK (and can not visit your family) or in spain. (but of course.. the health issue was a problem.. what happens if i get covid and where do i get a vaccination?)

brexit was , is and will be the coffin nail for many. how many, not sure...

No disagree.

There were many lawfully living, working and retired in Spain for many years. For those that complied with the regulations in place there was no issue. There is no real issue now. The monetary requirements for those who have lawfully lived, worked or retired to Spain for at least 5 years are very reasonable.

I have no doubt some may have been affected by Brexit and decided to leave. Similarly here in the TRNC when the new residency rules came in there was uproar and muttering a about leaving. No doubt some did, but many have not.

Of course there were those who took a different attitude and never bothered complying with the regulations in place. Life was indeed good. However; that has now ended. One thing you will not read or hear from this group is…. “I was living in Spain but never bothered with lawfully complying with the rules and that’s why I have to leave”. This group will make some vague muttering about Brexit…. It’s a minefield ….. it’s unfair. They will never admit the real reasons.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Kibsolar sorry I didn’t explain fully.
The reason the 3 friends, who will need your keys, can’t reciprocate is because 2 of them live in tents and 1 is homeless.
Obviously you are very welcome to stay in their tents or share the homeless persons sleeping bag.
Only fair because they are very excited about staying at yours
Don’t worry it will be very democratic, after all you have one of the eight votes.
Leave it to you to explain to your Mrs

[erol]

Erol do you stand by your statement
You are just wrong in my understanding. Before Brexit the requirements on a UK citizen wanting to reside in Spain were no different than a UK citizen wanting to move residence from England to Wales or Scotland. Any EU citizen has the right to reside in Spain regardless of income levels or employment status or almost anything else. Just like moving from Wales to Scotland. UK citizens no longer have these rights. To say they are treated the same makes no sense to me what so ever. They so clearly are NOT treated the same at all.
Or do you concede there are rules which EU nationals should follow and different rules for 3rd country nationals, meanwhile real freedom of movement exits within the UK for nationals & legal residents.

I stand by the simple logic that in order to gain something - control of its borders and ability to restrict EU nationals from living and working in the UK, it had to give up something in return - how easy it is for UK nationals to live and work in EU countries.

I stand by the opinion that this thread has been almost entirely about people trying to come up for reasons why in fact UK citizens did not lose anything. About them trying to believe that in fact we got our cake - control over EU migration in to the UK and we also kept our original cake as well with it being no more difficult for UK citizens to reside in EU countries. I stand by the labelling of such as absurd to me beyond belief. Indicative less of analysis and more of psychosis imo.