Euros 2021

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EnjoyingTheSun
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Re: Euros 2021

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

AFC wrote:
Sat 17 Jul 2021 6:33 pm

YOU WERE FIRST TO RAISE ANIT SEMITISM WAY BEFORE MY COMMENT lol


C45B0BB8-4E94-4B7D-95C6-9A3E3BD18764.jpeg
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Before I even mentioned Chomsky on the 15th July which could even be somehow shoehorned in as me bringing up anti-semitism.
It wasn’t the thrust of my argument which was how Marxism is more important to some than country, family and religion.

I did post about anti-semitism in reply to you posting about Islamaphobia and anti-semitism today.

Seriously if you have some mental health issues I’ll leave you alone and maybe try and get you some help if I can.
If you’d like to go back to the start of the thread and my posts you will see they were pretty much all about football given it was a football theme.
I only got involved in the taking the knee and racial abuse on social media in reply to your and others drivel.
But hey don’t believe me.

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Re: Euros 2021

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Post by AFC »

aww did I hit a nerve? Anri-semitism was discussed on friday, i mentioned Islamophobia today in relation to what was said about the Labour Party and it's anti semitic issues. Its such a shame when you are unable to face facts, the enquiry into islamophobia was conducted by a non-muslim btw as im Sure all brown people are terrorists in your book, but he was a Sikh tory MP

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Re: Euros 2021

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AFC wrote:
Sat 17 Jul 2021 8:02 pm
aww did I hit a nerve? Anri-semitism was discussed on friday, i mentioned Islamophobia today in relation to what was said about the Labour Party and it's anti semitic issues. Its such a shame when you are unable to face facts, the enquiry into islamophobia was conducted by a non-muslim btw as im Sure all brown people are terrorists in your book, but he was a Sikh tory MP
<<Moderated>> There are a lot of fascists living here who didn't vote for Corbyn, but they are nice helpful people.

In reply to the big dramatic
AFC wrote:
Sat 17 Jul 2021 6:33 pm
YOU WERE FIRST TO RAISE ANIT SEMITISM WAY BEFORE MY COMMENT lol maybe you can remind me what anti semitism has to do with the thread.
I think you'll find Erol bought up anti-semitism in a classic bit of whataboutism.
I mean you've bought up the London Mayor Election of 2016 FFS.

I came into a football thread to talk about football.
Not being happy to let lies go unchallenged I got dragged into these political arguments.

You are now trying to expand the thread into areas not in the slightest way connected with Euro 2021 because your posts on the rife racial abuse was proven to be not as you would have it. Its why Groucho calls out people as racists to try and get the moral high ground because he knows he has lost on facts.
I never commentated on the enquiry on Islamophobia. I commented on Corbyn's enquiry into anti-racism. I said it was conducted by an Asian lady, I didn't mention her religion.
Not all brown people are terrorists in my book but all white people bar you and some lefties are racist in yours?

So stop saying things that you said or others said and then try to pretend I said them.
I know you have some fantasy of me saying something to give you some gotcha moment but when I don't follow the script don't put words in my mouth. I know what I have said. I know what you have said. You however don't even know what you said.

<<Moderated>>

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Re: Euros 2021

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Post by erol »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Sun 18 Jul 2021 9:54 am
but when I don't follow the script don't put words in my mouth. I know what I have said. I know what you have said. You however don't even know what you said.
Be the change you want to see. No one puts words in to people's mouth's when they do not follow the script more than you do. No one. You do it systematically. No one complains of it being done to them more than you. You do that systematically as well. You even did it when the words you claimed 'no one ever said' where in fact a verbatim quote of your own words.

Time to get off your high horse and try looking in the mirror I think.

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Re: Euros 2021

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AFC wrote:
Sat 17 Jul 2021 6:33 pm
YOU WERE FIRST TO RAISE ANIT SEMITISM WAY BEFORE MY COMMENT lol maybe you can remind me what anti semitism has to do with the thread.
Zero.
Speak to Erol I think you’ll find he bought it up.
Me answering him isn’t me raising the subject, you know the difference right?
Sorry no gotcha.

AFC wrote:
Sat 17 Jul 2021 6:33 pm
After all we had a Jewish player in the England team, but there were no anti semitic remarks in any of the social media posts. So yes you were the first to go off topic.
I had no idea we had a Jewish player in the England team. Who was it? I don’t really keep track of people’s religious affiliations or race tbh. I see a photo of say a group of fire fighters I see people I don’t count up whose black and whose white. That’s a left hobby. This Jewish player do you think his first loyalty to the English team? He could be a secret Zionist or in the pay of Israel!!!!!
My first comment on taking the knee was in reply to you and my first comment on the racial abusewas in reply to you. But don’t believe me, check yourself.
So again no gotcha.
AFC wrote:
Sat 17 Jul 2021 6:33 pm
The issue with Islamophobia in the Conservative party outweighs any anti semitic issues the Labour party has faced. Labour party dealt with them, Boris Promised an independent enquiry then went back on his word.
I'll make it easier for you...
Labour party promised an enquiry and now very importantly here HAD AN ENQUIRY
Boris promised an enquiry if elected and DID NOT DELIVER ON HIS PROMISE see the difference here???
All this is totally off topic but……..

Labour’s enquiry of AS certainly wasn’t independent or un-biased and the person who carried it out got a peerage.
So you are saying that Professor Swaran Singh didn’t carry out an independent enquiry?
AFC wrote:
Sat 17 Jul 2021 6:33 pm
Turning to The names you mentioned most though Asian are not muslim. Im sure because they all look the same to you so they must all be Islamic Terrorists. Most are Hindu's or Sikhs... I can send you a list of the differences if you like
Did I say they were Asian? I have no idea what religion they are as it is of zero interest to me.
Unlike The Labour Party I do not need to see who is Jewish to question their loyalty or to differentiate between Sikhs and Muslims because generally they aren’t fast friends but one group has a lot more potential votes than the other.

Sorry again no gotcha.

As for the London Mayor election of 2016 it’s so far off topic that I can’t even be bothered to see what bits about it you have misquoted or out and out lied about. Every time I look into anything you say it isn’t as it seemed.
You just seem to be determined to shoe horn anything in you can to slag off England or the government.
Football, BLM the social abuse to those black players. That's the parameters of this thread really.
Erol has started another thread on reverse racism, maybe some will fit in there better.

Want to bring up Britain's colonialisation of Hong Kong start another thread.

Magic Grandpa lost, well he got annihilated really. Suck it up mate

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Re: Euros 2021

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erol wrote:
Sun 18 Jul 2021 10:17 am

Time to get off your high horse and try looking in the mirror I think.
So he isn't telling outright lies here?

You make me laugh. You have yourself up as some paragon of honesty and fairness but when someone puts up lies or poison that suits your agenda you'll stay silent.
Even if someone who takes you at your word was to say come on Erol we don't agree but arbitrate here, you would say from your lofty cloud that's his words not mine.
Its clever I never said you weren't clever. Its not what I thought you were about though

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Re: Euros 2021

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Post by erol »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Sun 18 Jul 2021 10:26 am
erol wrote:
Sun 18 Jul 2021 10:17 am

Time to get off your high horse and try looking in the mirror I think.
So he isn't telling outright lies here?
I am not talking about him. I am talking about you. That is my right and prerogative. Who's actions do YOU have control over ? Yours or his ?

Do you systematically put words in to peoples mouths when they do not follow the script ? Yes you do. Do you do it more than anyone else. Yes you do. Do you complain of it being done to you (boo hoo) more than anyone else ? Yes you do. Have you even done it when the words you claimed 'no one ever said' where in fact a verbatim quote of your own words ? Yes you did. Having done that yourself did you then attack someone else with "You however don't even know what you said." ? Yes you did.

Take some responsibility for your own actions, your own choices before attacking others would be my suggestion to you.

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Re: Euros 2021

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Post by AFC »

I really dont understand this concept of Gotcha...I had assumed this was a discussion? Every point I have raised is and has been in response to you trying to discredit or find excuses for certain actions, nothing more nothing less. The issue of Corbyn and anti semitism was raised and I merely pointed out the conservative party has greater issues of racism to deal with, and we currently have a sitting PM who spouted racial abuse leading to a direct increase on attacks on muslim women. Im sure thats acceptable to you, however it certainly isnt a society I wish to be a part of.

As for political views, I really find that that totally irrelevant to this discussion. A good friend, who stood for the Conservative party leadership elections has heavily criticised the Millwall fans who booed their own players for taking the knee against racism, so would that make him a marxist now?

This supposed link between Marxism and BLM comes from the far right. There is no relevance at all to it. Im sure your buddies in the BNP will inform you of this.

The anti-racist protest group embraced the symbolic act of taking the knee – which NFL player Colin Kaepernick employed as a form of protest against racial injustice in the United States by refusing to stand for the national anthem – following the murder of George Floyd by a police officer last year, and the group has little to do with left-wing political theory.

It's been claimed there is a connection between the anti-racism gesture and left-wing political theory but the argument is entirely without foundation
There is an argument doing the rounds in England that taking the knee before matches is a Marxist gesture.

This supposed link comes from the far right. It is a boo word, trying to scare people. Perhaps its time you come to terms to being a closet BNP supporter?

The mistaken belief that there is a connection between taking the knee and Marxism is rooted in its association with Black Lives Matter (BLM).

The anti-racist protest group embraced the symbolic act of taking the knee – which NFL player Colin Kaepernick employed as a form of protest against racial injustice in the United States by refusing to stand for the national anthem – following the murder of George Floyd by a police officer last year.

While one of BLM's founders admitted to having Marxist beliefs in 2015, the group has little to do with left-wing political theory.

BLM is far larger than marxist organisations combined and most would not call themselves marxists.

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Re: Euros 2021

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erol wrote:
Sun 18 Jul 2021 10:38 am

I am not talking about him...........
No I've got it ok. That's your moralistic unbiased opinion :)
erol wrote:
Sun 18 Jul 2021 10:38 am
Take some responsibility for your own actions, your own choices before attacking others would be my suggestion to you.
My suggestion to you would be don't take the moral high ground when your hypocrisy and bias seeps through with every post.
I don't pretend to be something I'm not, that is the difference here.

Still it is not your fault it is my fault.
My misjudgment on your character and integrity.

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Re: Euros 2021

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Post by erol »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Sun 18 Jul 2021 11:04 am
erol wrote:
Sun 18 Jul 2021 10:38 am

I am not talking about him...........
No I've got it ok. That's your moralistic unbiased opinion :)
It is a plain and simple fact that you claimed 'no one ever said that' to a verbatim quote of yours and then went on to attack another person with "You however don't even know what you said."

That is NOT opinion. It is a statement of fact.

As for the claim no one puts words in to other people's mouths more systematically than you do and no one complains of it being done to them more systematically than you do, why not try one of your infamous unbiased 'investigations' to see if I am wrong or not ? You know those unbiased investigations of yours that always end up confirming what you wanted to find in the first place. All the data is there and public. Now that IS a rabbit hole I would be more than willing to go down with you.

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Re: Euros 2021

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AFC wrote:
Sun 18 Jul 2021 11:01 am

I really dont understand this concept of Gotcha...I had assumed this was a discussion? Every point I have raised is and has been in response to you trying to discredit or find excuses for certain actions, nothing more nothing less.
It's exactly the other way around if you care to examine the timeline of this thread but carry on.
As for the gotcha I think the lady doth protest too much.
Btw any joy on the link to that online petition with the slavery connotations? Or did you make up that no-one protested or the source of it was leftist. Which one was it because I've asked 3 or 4 times now. To remind you it was a petition you bought up not me
AFC wrote:
Sun 18 Jul 2021 11:01 am

anti semitism was raised and I merely pointed out the conservative party has greater issues of racism to deal with
So wasn't raised by me? Quick change of feet there?
The other is your opinion and is bought up as a whatabout to The Labour Party's troubles

AFC wrote:
Sun 18 Jul 2021 11:01 am

As for political views, I really find that that totally irrelevant to this discussion.
I had no wish to talk about anything other than football in this particular thread. But others wished to bring it up so I responded. You seem to want to be able to spout of whatever you want without challenge.
When we go onto taking the knee that inevitably leads to BLM because the taking of the knee in the UK was linked with the BLM. Football clubs have tried to sideline the BLM part I suggest they look for another gesture to complete that. For some it is more important to defend an organisation so I speculate if that is because of their political leanings and BLMs.

[/quote]
AFC wrote:
Sun 18 Jul 2021 11:01 am

Im sure your buddies in the BNP will inform you of this.
I'm sure you will be able to find a post of mine where I have said the BNP or similar organisations are anything other than disgusting?
I wont hold my breath waiting for Erol to jump in and say anything here, as he will say its your words not his.
Its clever but a bit tired really. Anyone who is to the left of far left must be a fascist.
I am also very sure you wouldn't accuse me of supporting the BNP to my face.
AFC wrote:
Sun 18 Jul 2021 11:01 am

It's been claimed there is a connection between the anti-racism gesture and left-wing political theory but the argument is entirely without foundation
There is an argument doing the rounds in England that taking the knee before matches is a Marxist gesture.
No everyone should be anti-racist and the left generally are in favour of most forms of racism. To say the far left haven't leapt on this to undermine society in general is untrue. They leap on anything to undermine society in general as they wish to change it fundamentally.
OK question to you, everyone who boos the taking of the knee is racist?
AFC wrote:
Sun 18 Jul 2021 11:01 am

This supposed link comes from the far right. It is a boo word, trying to scare people. Perhaps its time you come to terms to being a closet BNP supporter?
Accuse others which you are guilty of yourself
nazi.jpg
Again keyboard warrior, find one post at which I defend the BNP in any way, shape or form

AFC wrote:
Sun 18 Jul 2021 11:01 am

While one of BLM's founders admitted to having Marxist beliefs in 2015, the group has little to do with left-wing political theory.
It was 2 out of the 3 founders actually, but I don't think anyone expects accuracy from you

AFC wrote:
Sun 18 Jul 2021 11:01 am

BLM is far larger than marxist organisations combined and most would not call themselves marxists.
Anti racism is far larger than marxist organisations combined, BLM is slowly losing their popularity due to its links with Marxism, as illustrated by the booing.
So as an anti racist personally I'd remove anything that undermined anti racism.
But some seem determined that BLM must remain part of anti-racism. I question why.

Marxists whenever they become openly marxist gain next to zero votes.
This is why they have to hijack organisations which do have popularity.
This is why we saw the widescale entryism into the Labour party as evidenced after Corbyn's leadership win.

They are still rooted in there looking to dislodge Starmer.
This is the nearest they have ever got to power in the UK, they aren't going to give it up without a fight.

People know the Labour Party is still riddled with Marxists which is why they can't make any gains on a pretty poor government.
If Starmer started visibly booting them out then his popularity would increase overnight.
Then we would have an effective opposition

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Re: Euros 2021

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Erol keep posting mate I just ignore all of them.

I will debate with people I don't agree with.
I will debate with people who are hypocrites and use double standards.
I won't engage with people who take the moral high ground but who don't have any integrity.

We're done mate

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EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Sun 18 Jul 2021 11:41 am
Erol keep posting mate I just ignore all of them.

I will debate with people I don't agree with.
I will debate with people who are hypocrites and use double standards.
I won't engage with people who take the moral high ground but who don't have any integrity.

We're done mate
At last you've decided to stop talking to yourself... btw way nearly everybody occupies higher moral ground than you... (Oo)

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Re: Euros 2021

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Attacks on members will lead to thread being closed and members being banned.

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Re: Euros 2021

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Post by erol »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Sun 18 Jul 2021 11:41 am
Erol keep posting mate I just ignore all of them.

I will debate with people I don't agree with.
I will debate with people who are hypocrites and use double standards.
I won't engage with people who take the moral high ground but who don't have any integrity.

We're done mate
I do not think what you do here is debate. I think you just reel off your narratives whatever and regardless of what anyone else has actually said. I think that is why you do not need to read what other people actually say. I think it is why you put words in to peoples mouths as much as you do and so much more than most. I could post in response to any post of yours [insert my opinion here] and you would have everything your need and your output would be no different. That is not debate in my opinion.

For what is worth in real life I think you are an ok person. But on the forum, to me, in my opinion, you turn in to some kind of animal.

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Re: Euros 2021

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Groucho wrote:
Sun 18 Jul 2021 12:06 pm

At last you've decided to stop talking to yourself... btw way nearly everybody occupies higher moral ground than you... (Oo)
You know when someone quotes your nonsense and debunks it, they are talking to you?
You can ignore it and do what you like but it is addressed at you.

As for the claim of higher moral ground when their arguments crumble that is the very essence of the virtue signaler.
EG you don't agree with my view so you are a racist or fascist.
The arguments usually go along the lines of
"I think the easiest way to protect children from covid is to remove them from their parents if anyone argues against this they obviously want children to die"

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Re: Euros 2021

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erol wrote:
Sun 18 Jul 2021 1:19 pm
EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Sun 18 Jul 2021 11:41 am
Erol keep posting mate I just ignore all of them.

I will debate with people I don't agree with.
I will debate with people who are hypocrites and use double standards.
I won't engage with people who take the moral high ground but who don't have any integrity.

We're done mate
I do not think what you do here is debate. I think you just reel off your narratives whatever and regardless of what anyone else has actually said. I think that is why you do not need to read what other people actually say. I think it is why you put words in to peoples mouths as much as you do and so much more than most. I could post in response to any post of yours [insert my opinion here] and you would have everything your need and your output would be no different. That is not debate in my opinion.

For what is worth in real life I think you are an ok person. But on the forum, to me, in my opinion, you turn in to some kind of animal.
Sure because you always answer a question directly. lol
Tactic one is to avoid the question completely.
Tactic two is to ask a different question and demand I answer your question first. Then another, then another.
Tactic three is to type out a book which no one understands and pretend you have answered the question in it.
Any attempt to push you will result in faux outrage.
Obviously you and others reserve the right to go off topic at the drop of a hat but if I argue then by answering I'm going off topic.

Thing is old son the tactics are a bit tired and you're good at it but I've seen better I'm afraid.

What you and others want is a free reign to spout your opinions unchallenged.

As for your opinion on me, tbh there was a time when that might have been of some minimal interest to me as one thing I thought you had was integrity but I was completely wrong so join the other leftwaffe in calling me and others a member of the BNP or whatever.
All it does is confirm my opinions on you and others and highly amuse me tbh.

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Re: Euros 2021

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soner10116 wrote:
Sun 18 Jul 2021 12:42 pm
Attacks on members will lead to thread being closed and members being banned.
Except if it is to label them a racist it seems!

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Re: Euros 2021

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Post by erol »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Sun 18 Jul 2021 2:30 pm
Tactic one is to avoid the question completely.
Tactic two is to ask a different question and demand I answer your question first. Then another, then another.
Tactic three is to type out a book which no one understands and pretend you have answered the question in it.
Any attempt to push you will result in faux outrage.
Obviously you and others reserve the right to go off topic at the drop of a hat but if I argue then by answering I'm going off topic.
I do not want to misunderstand you. I do not want to put words in to your mouth. I do not want to jump to a false assumption.

So I will ask do you genuinely believe that you do not do these things ?

And just as another example of a tactic you easily could add to that list imo - It is a simple question. I would like a simple yes or no answer. Do you do these things ? Yes or No ?

Or another to add to the list imo - You will not answer of course, you will just use one of the tactics above to avoid answering.

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Re: Euros 2021

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erol wrote:
Sun 18 Jul 2021 5:20 pm
EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Sun 18 Jul 2021 2:30 pm
Tactic one is to avoid the question completely.
Tactic two is to ask a different question and demand I answer your question first. Then another, then another.
Tactic three is to type out a book which no one understands and pretend you have answered the question in it.
Any attempt to push you will result in faux outrage.
Obviously you and others reserve the right to go off topic at the drop of a hat but if I argue then by answering I'm going off topic.
I do not want to misunderstand you. I do not want to put words in to your mouth. I do not want to jump to a false assumption.

So I will ask do you genuinely believe that you do not do these things ?

And just as another example of a tactic you easily could add to that list imo - It is a simple question. I would like a simple yes or no answer. Do you do these things ? Yes or No ?

Or another to add to the list imo - You will not answer of course, you will just use one of the tactics above to avoid answering.
Nope generally try to answer your questions as its the only way to move a debate along given I have to answer new questions before you'll even consider answering my one question

Nope generally I continue to ask the same question over and over and over again. I might attempt to ask it in another way but it's the same question.

Nope I prefer short posts. The only reason I get dragged into long posts is answering your loooong posts because god forbid I miss one of your fresh 27 questions.

Nope I very rarely if ever use faux outrage but I will admit to being slightly irritated when called a racist, member of the BNP or fascist without any evidence. But I am generally amused as it proves there is no evidence from the other person so they have to resort to insults.

I will on occasion use a bit of whataboutism because you do it all the time and I enjoy using your own tactics on you.
What I don't do is pretend I am some moralistic paragon of virtue unlike you.

Anyhow run along and post in a safe space that way you wont have to prove anything just do sound bites.

I will try to post more in a manner with which you will approve of.
Is the one below ok?

I think we ought to give every child in the world exactly one million pounds to eliminate child relative poverty overnight.
If they waste it we should send them another million.
Anyone who doesn't agree with this or speculates on how we might afford it obviously wants dead children.

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Re: Euros 2021

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Post by erol »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Sun 18 Jul 2021 5:49 pm
Nope generally try to answer your questions
Nope generally I continue to ask the same question over and over and over again.
Nope I prefer short posts.
Nope I very rarely if ever use faux outrage
I will on occasion use a bit of whataboutism because you do it all the time and I enjoy using your own tactics on you.
What I don't do is pretend I am some moralistic paragon of virtue unlike you.
So basically no is the simple answer ? Would that be fair ? Would you be willing to even look at evidence that might suggest otherwise or is that line of enquiry entirely forbidden ?

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Re: Euros 2021

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erol wrote:
Sun 18 Jul 2021 6:09 pm
EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Sun 18 Jul 2021 5:49 pm
Nope generally try to answer your questions
Nope generally I continue to ask the same question over and over and over again.
Nope I prefer short posts.
Nope I very rarely if ever use faux outrage
I will on occasion use a bit of whataboutism because you do it all the time and I enjoy using your own tactics on you.
What I don't do is pretend I am some moralistic paragon of virtue unlike you.
So basically no is the simple answer ? Would that be fair ? Would you be willing to even look at evidence that might suggest otherwise or is that line of enquiry entirely forbidden ?
Because I’ll really struggle to find countless examples of you avoiding ever answering a straight question.
In fact it would be harder to find you ever actually answering a question unless the answer is buried in code in one of your novels you post. Should I have been circling the first letter of every other word or something?
I can’t ever remember asking you a question where the answer was binary.

Anyhow this thread is now apparently invisible to me as I’m obviously in some way banned from seeing it so for all the keyboard warriors you can say what you wish as long as you don’t quote me which it then comes up as a notification.
So fill your boots, you can put up as many ‘facts’ that crumble under any scrutiny.
Even pretend you played for West Ham rather than just pretend you’ve ever watched them.

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Re: Euros 2021

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EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Sun 18 Jul 2021 10:55 pm
erol wrote:
Sun 18 Jul 2021 6:09 pm
So basically no is the simple answer ? Would that be fair ? Would you be willing to even look at evidence that might suggest otherwise or is that line of enquiry entirely forbidden ?
Because I’ll really struggle to find countless examples of you avoiding ever answering a straight question.
In fact it would be harder to find you ever actually answering a question unless the answer is buried in code in one of your novels you post. Should I have been circling the first letter of every other word or something?
I can’t ever remember asking you a question where the answer was binary.
So was that a yes or a no on being willing to look at the evidence ? Evidence that perhaps your perception as to if you do these things or not is somewhat awry from actual reality.

Anyway lets try this from another angle.

It seems you used to think I had some kind of integrity based on not calling you or others racist but that now you no longer believe I have that integrity any more. Even though I still have not called you racist. From my perspective, in my head, not calling you racist is not an integrity thing. I do not call you racist because in my head I do not even call Hitler racist. I call Hitler an example of someone at the very furthest end on the spectrum of racism. That might sound like 'sophistry' to you but to me thinking this way is just an integral part of who I am, of my identity. For me it is just a better way of trying to understand the world around me. It reflects reality better, for me. For me we are all on the spectrum of racism. You, me, Hitler, everyone. Which means, for me, to just know that someone is on that spectrum is to know exactly nothing. So to with the spectrum 'doing those things you listed'. We are all on it. That means nothing. Only degree means anything.

This model of 'no one is racist or not racist but everyone is somewhere on the spectrum of racism' works for me. It helps me understand better. It helps me understand , to give one example, concepts like 'structural racism'. If I imagine a world where everyone is at say 15% on the spectrum running from 'not racist' through to 'totally racist' then no one single individual could fairly be called racist. Yet I think it is possible that on mass, at the level of 'society' these 15% can add up and create degrees of structural racism even though not a single individual person could be fairly called racist. This is the kind of model I have for understanding structural racism and it is a model that can not be considered if you use the simpler model of someone as an individual either is or is not racist.

From another angle.

You said of me just recently I pretend I am some moralistic paragon of virtue. Well we are all on that spectrum to some degree or other but in terms of me being, at multiple levels and to large degrees at the extreme end of such spectrums, I would say 'fair cop'. It is a fundamental part of who I am. My identity and I will not deny who I am. Not for you or anyone else or for convivence. What is not a 'fair cop' is when when you place me at the far end of spectrums like 'Marxist' simply because it suits your narrative to do so. That is not who I am. That is not my identity. It is upsetting when you say it is. Upsetting in the same way and same degree that it is upsetting to you when people say you are racist. Upsetting for the same reason because that is not who you are.

So I will end for now with another simple question. Do you genuinely think I go around placing you on the extreme end of the racism spectrum with the same frequency and intensity with which you place me on the extreme end of the Marxism spectrum ?

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Re: Euros 2021

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Please explain what you mean by this

erol wrote:
Tue 13 Jul 2021 4:20 pm

Nor do I believe that someone who calls themselves today 'marxist' is the same as someone who today calls themselves a nazi. It is false equivalence to a massive degree in my book.
In less than 20,000 words if possible and in English

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EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Mon 19 Jul 2021 8:41 am
Please explain what you mean by this

erol wrote:
Tue 13 Jul 2021 4:20 pm

Nor do I believe that someone who calls themselves today 'marxist' is the same as someone who today calls themselves a nazi. It is false equivalence to a massive degree in my book.
In less than 20,000 words if possible and in English
Beware of anyone declaring themselves the winner in a debate - that's Trumpism.
Last edited by Groucho on Tue 20 Jul 2021 5:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Euros 2021

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EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Mon 19 Jul 2021 8:41 am
Please explain what you mean by this

erol wrote:
Tue 13 Jul 2021 4:20 pm

Nor do I believe that someone who calls themselves today 'marxist' is the same as someone who today calls themselves a nazi. It is false equivalence to a massive degree in my book.
In less than 20,000 words if possible and in English
So first the question already asked that has been ignored so far

Do you really think I have called you racist more directly or frequently than you have called me Marxist ?

And now to answer the question you have asked under the terms you have set.

One is purely an ideology based on racism and nothing else and the other is not.

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For the record and if it is believed or not I just read this thread viewtopic.php?p=277365#p277365 for the first time while reviewing back. At the time in the mood I was in and with the time I had available I scanned it, saw it was between AFC and ETS and it had an eye catching 'woke' graphic in the middle of it so I just decided TLDR (too long did not read) and moved on. I did not notice my name being mentioned when I scanned it. If I had I probably would have read it.

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erol wrote:
Mon 19 Jul 2021 11:46 am

One is purely an ideology based on racism and nothing else and the other is not.
What is the other based on?

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EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Tue 20 Jul 2021 9:08 pm
erol wrote:
Mon 19 Jul 2021 11:46 am

One is purely an ideology based on racism and nothing else and the other is not.
What is the other based on?
Not gonna play any more. You do not play fair here, never have. I am done. I have finally had enough of your self righteous claiming of the moral high ground that it is only those who disagree with you who do not play fair.

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Re: Euros 2021

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erol wrote:
Wed 21 Jul 2021 6:28 am
EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Tue 20 Jul 2021 9:08 pm
erol wrote:
Mon 19 Jul 2021 11:46 am

One is purely an ideology based on racism and nothing else and the other is not.
What is the other based on?
Not gonna play any more. You do not play fair here, never have. I am done. I have finally had enough of your self righteous claiming of the moral high ground that it is only those who disagree with you who do not play fair.
Accuse others what you are guilty of yourself.
I don't claim any moral high ground unlike yourself. I do point out hypocrisy and double standards though.

Of course you wont go into details on Marxism.
After all you are not a Marxist are you?
So for you to post about the joys of Marxism would be a little awkward I guess.

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Re: Euros 2021

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Groucho wrote:
Mon 19 Jul 2021 9:47 am

Beware of anyone declaring themselves the winner in a debate - that's Trumpism.
I can only guess that Bidenism would be rambling on with the same level of inarticulacy with no point in the immediate or far future. The only difference being is no-one is allowed to point it out.

You lost the bad orange man so I guess you will ignore that you now have a mumbling, fumbling idiot who is shot away as leader of the free world?
Nuclear trigger?
I wouldn't leave him in charge of the TV remote.

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Re: Euros 2021

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EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Wed 21 Jul 2021 6:53 am
I don't claim any moral high ground
viewtopic.php?p=277390#p277390

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Re: Euros 2021

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EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Wed 21 Jul 2021 6:58 am
Groucho wrote:
Mon 19 Jul 2021 9:47 am

Beware of anyone declaring themselves the winner in a debate - that's Trumpism.
I can only guess that Bidenism would be rambling on with the same level of inarticulacy with no point in the immediate or far future. The only difference being is no-one is allowed to point it out.

You lost the bad orange man so I guess you will ignore that you now have a mumbling, fumbling idiot who is shot away as leader of the free world?
Nuclear trigger?
I wouldn't leave him in charge of the TV remote.
[insert my opinion here]

Off you go. Fill your boots. Son.

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Re: Euros 2021

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Erol I and I'm sure others have always struggled with the theory of surplus value.
You are a clever chap please explain it for me. Groucho or AFC can help if they wish.

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Re: Euros 2021

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EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Wed 21 Jul 2021 8:09 am
Erol I and I'm sure others have always struggled with the theory of surplus value.
You are a clever chap please explain it for me. Groucho or AFC can help if they wish.
[insert my opinion here]

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