Euros 2021

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EnjoyingTheSun
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Re: Euros 2021

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

To remind you Groucho this was the thread in which you made a bit of an idiot of yourself.

It’s on the terraces
It’s not on the terraces it’s on social media.
Ok it’s not in England it’s in Eastern Europe.
I witnessed bananas being thrown at West Ham. Well ok I rarely went to West Ham but I did see it even though we’ve established there were no black players on the pitch to be racially abused.
It’s rife Manchester United are the worst. Ok there were only 4 incidents in 4 seasons at Manchester Utds 76+ games which had 70,000 supporters at each

viewtopic.php?f=71&t=54223

Basically you have no idea what you are talking about but want to push the racist rife in football narrative so make some stuff up?
Why?

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Re: Euros 2021

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"Translation I don’t really know sod all" - so I'm an expert unlike you who does know sod all. You must stop the self-abuse as you are clearly going blind... there are none so blind as those that will not see

Did they have facial recognition in the seventies, I don't think they did... cameras not new tech - ability to scan whole sections of the crowd and identify known trouble makers, now that's fairly new... want to argue otherwise? muppet.

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Re: Euros 2021

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Post by erol »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Thu 15 Jul 2021 6:21 pm
Erol so you have no idea about Corbyn and his perceived support of the IRA? Never heard about it? Really?
Really. I just have no interest in such things. I do have an interest in being honest because to me that is the kind of personal individual choice that can be a route to effecting change imo. I think such an exercise can produce nothing of any value or use to me. Literally nothing. Is literally a waste of my time. I gave up such futility decades ago. Literally, with subjects like 'Red Ken' and investigating every report on him and trying to sift through the lies and distortions for some sort of 'truth', something definitive one way or another, anything of any value or use to me in terms of better understanding that could lead me to better choices that I think is the route to what I desire and seek, namely progress.

I do understand that one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. I do know that I can and do condemn the use of violence against innocents as a means of securing aims universally without having to automatically condemn in some kind of black and white binary way a given organisation and any one connected with it or supporting any aspect of it's aims. That is true for me whether you are talking about the IRA, the ANC, GC seeking enosis or TC resisting it. Now if you want to show me evidence of Corbyn having shown support for the use of violence by as a means to a political end by anyone the IRA included that might interest me.
EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Thu 15 Jul 2021 6:21 pm
Not really worth reading the rest of your post mate if you are going to be that evasive.
Do as you like mate. I know you will. Does not bother me either way. I did not write what I wrote for you.
EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Thu 15 Jul 2021 6:21 pm
I guess if there is any danger of you hearing something you don't want to if you cover your ears and run off in the other direction going "lalalalala I'm not listening, I'm not listening."
Guess as you like. That is you right and prerogative. But here is a suggestion for you. Bit radical I know but perhaps you might get a better insight and understanding that is a closer reflection of actual reality if you tried reading what I have already said myself on the subject of why I have no interest what so ever in going down such a pointless and futile rabbit hole with you , than just you guessing the reason why. Hard to get your head around I know so if trying such a radical approach discomforts you in way please do just abandon it and return back to the warm comfort blanket that is your 'guess'.
EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Thu 15 Jul 2021 6:21 pm
I guess it works for you.
I know what works for me and why and please do forgive my egotistical arrogance for thinking that actually I know this better and at levels and in ways than even than your own best guesses as what works for me and why. Hard as that may be for you to believe.
EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Thu 15 Jul 2021 6:21 pm
Sorry to keep trying to pin you down to give a straight answer it must be very uncomfortable for you.
No need to apologise mate. You do what you gotta do. If there was any material discomfort for me in you doing that I simply would not be here. I would just exercise my right to not be here.

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Re: Euros 2021

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Brazen wrote:
Thu 15 Jul 2021 7:52 am
Its very apparent that taking the knee angers many people who are in no way racist because of its connection with an extreme racist organisation, so why don’t the FA, the clubs and the players come up with an alternative? Surely that’s not above their capabilities?

The championship club I support stopped kneeling down after the fans booed it and a meeting was called between fans and management.

The next game the players carried an anti racism banner onto the pitch pre ko instead and were loudly applauded.

Blm is a deliberately devisive political organisation and has no place in football.

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Re: Euros 2021

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Hedge-fund wrote:
Thu 15 Jul 2021 8:56 pm
Blm is a deliberately devisive political organisation and has no place in football.
Only if you choose to make it so. Without that individual choice it is just people making an anti racism gesture.

Nice summary really. Thanks HF.

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Re: Euros 2021

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Groucho wrote:
Thu 15 Jul 2021 7:37 pm
"Translation I don’t really know sod all" - so I'm an expert unlike you who does know sod all. You must stop the self-abuse as you are clearly going blind... there are none so blind as those that will not see

Did they have facial recognition in the seventies, I don't think they did... cameras not new tech - ability to scan whole sections of the crowd and identify known trouble makers, now that's fairly new... want to argue otherwise? muppet.
Ah facial recognition cameras now?
This is going down the “well not actually on the terraces, well not in England, well no Man U didn’t actually lose their sponsorship deal because of racism” route.
I suggest you stop making stuff up.

So the cameras back then couldn’t make out racial chanting, your banana throwing, monkey gestures well enough for the police to move in and arrest them?
That’s news because I know a lot of people who got nicked for fighting without facial recognition.

I mean carry on with the insults because I know it must be really upsetting that someone is clearly showing that you are lying so by all means let off steam but just stop making things up.

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Re: Euros 2021

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Post by Groucho »

Saka, 19, and Jadon Sancho had spot-kicks saved and Marcus Rashford hit a post as Italy beat England in a penalty shootout to win the tournament.

All three players received racist abuse on social media after the game.

Somehow I get the impression that it is your contention that messages of support outnumbering racial abuse somehow cancels it out... Is that right, is that what you believe?
Last edited by Groucho on Thu 15 Jul 2021 11:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Euros 2021

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Groucho wrote:
Thu 15 Jul 2021 9:23 pm
Saka, 19, and Jadon Sancho had spot-kicks saved and Marcus Rashford hit a post as Italy beat England in a penalty shootout to win the tournament.

All three players received racist abuse on social media after the game.

Somehow I get the impression that it is your contention that messages of support outnumbering racial abuse somehow cancels it out... Is that right, is that what you believe?
No I am pointing out that it is not as widespread as some would have it. I am pointing out that the support for the players has been overwhelming but I agree there is no place for racist abuse such as below
81F11A1B-EBFF-440E-9462-A030C23D1798.jpeg
The above is one of the usual examples used.

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Re: Euros 2021

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EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Thu 15 Jul 2021 9:34 pm

The above is one of the usual examples used.
A couple more of the most commonly quoted examples on Twitter. You’ll forgive me for editing out the N word I hope?
F51CAE2C-00B3-4007-90AF-D9B820212BA4.jpeg
F51CAE2C-00B3-4007-90AF-D9B820212BA4.jpeg (11.62 KiB) Viewed 80628 times
AF786C7D-7807-49C2-85C3-241F8A956FB7.jpeg
AF786C7D-7807-49C2-85C3-241F8A956FB7.jpeg (12.52 KiB) Viewed 80628 times
By all means check it out yourself rather than repeat what you have heard

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Re: Euros 2021

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Hedge-fund wrote:
Thu 15 Jul 2021 8:56 pm

Blm is a deliberately devisive political organisation and has no place in football.
Oh trust me they’ll want to get rid of a lot before they get rid of BLM.
If BLM aren’t in charge of what is and what isn’t racism then they’ll soon lose interest in racism.

“OK sod em let’s move onto climate change, whats our cure?”
“Ending capitalism.”
“That’s the ticket”

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Re: Euros 2021

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Post by erol »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Thu 15 Jul 2021 10:12 pm
Hedge-fund wrote:
Thu 15 Jul 2021 8:56 pm

Blm is a deliberately devisive political organisation and has no place in football.
Oh trust me they’ll want to get rid of a lot before they get rid of BLM.
If BLM aren’t in charge of what is and what isn’t racism then they’ll soon lose interest in racism.

“OK sod em let’s move onto climate change, whats our cure?”
“Ending capitalism.”
“That’s the ticket”
You are making a delusion choice. imo. Of the vastly greater numbers of people who came out across the globe using such things vs those upset by it now, approximately zero of them took their personal individual choices about what is and what is not racism from the organisation you talk about. Nor will they ever do so. As near as dam it zero. It is exactly because your bogey man is so clearly fictional when you take in to account what actually happened in reality that is so clearly a CHOICE that does not have to be made. it is chosen. Without that choice there is no culture war. Can be none. There is just those that want to making the gestures (choices) they want in the name of equality and anti racism (progress) and those who do not want to not doing so or making other gestures if they want. No muss. No fuss. No culture war. No compulsion for anyone to do anything other than what they want.

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Re: Euros 2021

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Post by Groucho »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Thu 15 Jul 2021 9:34 pm
Groucho wrote:
Thu 15 Jul 2021 9:23 pm
Saka, 19, and Jadon Sancho had spot-kicks saved and Marcus Rashford hit a post as Italy beat England in a penalty shootout to win the tournament.

All three players received racist abuse on social media after the game.

Somehow I get the impression that it is your contention that messages of support outnumbering racial abuse somehow cancels it out... Is that right, is that what you believe?
No I am pointing out that it is not as widespread as some would have it. I am pointing out that the support for the players has been overwhelming but I agree there is no place for racist abuse such as below

81F11A1B-EBFF-440E-9462-A030C23D1798.jpeg

The above is one of the usual examples used.
So for you it has to be widespread to be bad. I still don't think you get it, I suppose that's your way of reconciling the fact of the existence of racial abuse in football with your, what seems to me to untenable stance that racist remarks are countered by the fact that is a relatively small number of occurrences compared to the population and the messages of support somehow should be seen as a counteracting force for good. Which I find sadly lacking in sympathy for the abused because it doesn't work like that. I think as a social experiment you should contact Saka and acquaint him with your theory and see how he feels about it.

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Re: Euros 2021

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Groucho wrote:
Thu 15 Jul 2021 11:22 pm

So for you it has to be widespread to be bad.
No those examples I put up are disgusting aren’t they?

Strangely when you read a story about it you are very upset but when I show some of the examples that are being highlighted you don’t even notice them.

It has to be widespread for me to use it as an excuse to denigrate a whole country as racist and to say I am ashamed of England as some have said.

4 racists send racist abuse.
That is an indication that England is a racist country and a disgusting place?

When they catch a serial killer do you say “well that sums up England?”

Just be honest, you don’t really give a toss about racism and you know zero about football but if it gives you a chance to put the boot into England and undermine it, suddenly you are all over it?

It’s ok you are not alone,
Twitter has been alive with the Momentum mob pretending to feign an interest in football over the last month.
I think it gave them a chance to get down with the working classes.

I can live with your made up stories of your younger days at West Ham but the crocodile tears about racism are sickening tbh

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Re: Euros 2021

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Post by Groucho »

Of course I noticed them, I know what racist tweets, messages and letters look like. Do I like looking at them? No, I've seen first-hand the demoralising effect they can have on people. Why would you expect me to comment on your ability to upload them?

Nobody has denigrated the whole country or even the whole of football on here, you are making big errors in your reading of our posts, I'd almost think deliberately for dramatic effect to try justify your indignation... are you?

The facts are, as you appear to admit, still problems of racism surrounding non-white players and this can not and should not be given the oxygen that it thrives on, neither can it be dismissed based on some quid-pro-quo trade-off between messages of support as if that would ever redress the balance. To the abused, that is never the case.. even if you think it should be.

If you do think that, then what we have here is two completely different understandings of how racial abuse has a lasting, insidious and draining effect on the target, what damage to mental health and the corruption and breakdown of any proper sense of goodwill.

I don't see any point in further discussion on this matter if you are determined to maintain that percentages somehow are able to moderate the effect. That's not, as I have explained more than once, how it works.

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Re: Euros 2021

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EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Fri 16 Jul 2021 6:37 am
It has to be widespread for me to use it as an excuse to denigrate a whole country as racist and to say I am ashamed of England as some have said.
Try this on for size ETS

"As far as an anti Semitism problem in Britain exists, it really dosen't. That battle has been won, anyone highlighting anti Semitism, opposing it, challenging it are just bayoneting the wounded"

Sound like a fair summary of actual underlying reality to you ? A reason to make the personal choice not to 'pile on' when the issue of anti Semitism in UK rears it's head ? To argue in the face of those that are and do go on about anti Semitism in the UK that it's really just not a problem any more ? Do you think those who claim there are still problems and issues around anti Semitism in the UK today clearly do not really care about anti Semitism but are just using it to put the boot into England and undermine it ?
EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Fri 16 Jul 2021 6:37 am
4 racists send racist abuse.
That is an indication that England is a racist country and a disgusting place?
Classic failure of 'thinking' as far as I am concerned. Such snapshot 'stats' in isolation do not and can not tell you anything of any value about the actual state of racism in the UK. In the same way just knowing how many people who died of covid-19 had been vaccinated or not in any time period does not and can not tell you how effective vaccines are or are not. They just have no value at all if gaining better understanding is your objective. Sure they do have some 'use' if the objective is creating narratives to support a given pre chosen side regardless of any actual underlying reality. But in terms of understanding that underlying reality - worthless.

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Re: Euros 2021

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Groucho wrote:
Fri 16 Jul 2021 7:48 am
Of course I noticed them, I know what racist tweets, messages and letters look like. Do I like looking at them? No, I've seen first-hand the demoralising effect they can have on people. Why would you expect me to comment on your ability to upload them?
No they are disgusting.
But they are the sort of things you have seen when you looked into this racist abuse?
There seems to be around 2 or 3 screenshots which are the ones that are generally circulated as the evidence.
I mean you did check it out right?
You didn't just think oooooo exciting someone has said something nasty about our country I'm going to repeat that, doesn't matter if it's true or not?

Now really look closely at the tweets I put up.

Zoom in have a look at the white supremacists' posting this vile abuse.

This by the way isn't my evidence of racism I should add this is the evidence as posted to prove Britain is a racist country.

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Re: Euros 2021

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erol wrote:
Fri 16 Jul 2021 7:50 am

"As far as an anti Semitism problem in Britain exists, it really dosen't. That battle has been won, anyone highlighting anti Semitism, opposing it, challenging it are just bayoneting the wounded"

Sound like a fair summary of actual underlying reality to you ?
TBH anti-semitism, as was, had pretty much become a minor problem in Britain.
We did decide to import some anti-semites and didn't point out to them "actually we don't do that anymore here" which wasn't a great idea.
Then it seems Corbyn had a little add up and thought Jews 250,000 v a pool of potential anti-semites of 4.5 million and thought "this could be a winner lads and god knows we need one"

But in answer to your question amongst the white privileged population (that is who we are talking about right?) anti-semitism is a tiny problem.
We do have an increasing few useful idiots who stray into saying anti semitic things when they repeat nonsense from the blame the jews..err..zionists brigade.

Just goes to show if the left do nothing things won't get worse and if they get busy things do.
erol wrote:
Fri 16 Jul 2021 7:50 am

Classic failure of 'thinking' as far as I am concerned. Such snapshot 'stats' in isolation do not and can not tell you anything of any value about the actual state of racism in the UK.
So just to be clear this new storm started because the 3 players were inundated with racist texts from racist England, correct?

On closer evidence this tsunami and torrent of racist texts actually numbered around 1000. Still an awful number but not an indication that England is fundamentally racist which is the narrative that some want to push.

Some of the evidence of racism included a Scotsman saying nice penalty to Rashford which was counted as racism, to which he pointed out he would have sent that to whoever cocked up because he wanted England to lose and is thoroughly enjoying our misery. They have great bitters in Scotland!

So some's definition of what constitutes a racist tweet isn't neccessarily what I would call a racist tweet but getting back to the 1000.....

THEN we discover that 7 out of the 10 weren't even from England.

NOW the stats of a torrent of racism have frankly blown up in their faces we shouldn't take any notice of the 'snapshot' stats that some were wetting themselves with excitement about on Monday morning, we should listen to what....anecdotal evidence?

Anecdotal evidence you will dismiss if it doesn't agree with your belief but will try to use to prove your belief?

That it?

It's breathtaking double standards really.

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Re: Euros 2021

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And, you still don't get it.

Neither Erol or I have, ever tried to characterise the whole UK population as racist, or even the whole of football, or even all white fans or all white footballers... and yet you carry on with your excuses..

Not surprised that by your own admission (faux pas btw) some of your friends have been nicked for fighting at matches... the company you keep measures the man

I'm not buying it (your naff logic) so I'm out, because there's no saving you from your own stupidity- your head is so far up your trolling behind, if you open your eyes you might, just, catch a glimpse of your brain - you'll need a microscope mind you.

"You have been weighed, you have been measured and you have been found wanting"
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Re: Euros 2021

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Groucho wrote:
Fri 16 Jul 2021 8:40 am
And, you still don't get it.
And you still haven't had a really good look have you?

You're not the sharpest knife in the drawer so I'll help you.

The 3 examples, like at least half of the examples that are being thrown up as evidence of white racist England, are from black people.
This is not my evidence btw it is the evidence provided.
But don't believe me, check it out yourself.

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Re: Euros 2021

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EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Fri 16 Jul 2021 8:42 am
Groucho wrote:
Fri 16 Jul 2021 8:40 am
And, you still don't get it.
And you still haven't had a really good look have you?

You're not the sharpest knife in the drawer so I'll help you.

The 3 examples, like at least half of the examples that are being thrown up as evidence of white racist England, are from black people.
This is not my evidence btw it is the evidence provided.
But don't believe me, check it out yourself.
And that proves nothing other than you are not opposed to trickery to try to create a false-positive... I never follow any of your leads as invariably they are traps, as you have very neatly demonstrated...

Where have I ever said that racism is the preserve of white people? Or only aimed at non-whites? Nowhere, that's where but you keep digging...

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Re: Euros 2021

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Groucho wrote:
Fri 16 Jul 2021 9:04 am

And that proves nothing other than you are not opposed to trickery to try to create a false-positive...
No that proves you don't examine the evidence that is given as proof that England is fundamentally racist and just accept it because you want it to be true.
And it's not my evidence, it's the evidence that has been offered up.
Check it out yourself.

Do you know what the 'racist abuse' on The Marcus Rashford mural said?
"Ooops in a bucket "ooops"" In blue.
Now I know you won't know this not knowing anything about football, but there are two rival teams in Manchester. The one Rashford doesn't play for wear blue.
So is it likely that a 'racist' decided to graffiti the mural but not take the opportunity to mention Rashford's colour or is it likely that a City and England fan annoyed that he hit a crap penalty decided to deface the mural because he is a United player?

Have a think if you can of course.
Groucho wrote:
Fri 16 Jul 2021 9:04 am

Where have I ever said that racism is the preserve of white people? Or only aimed at non-whites? Nowhere, that's where but you keep digging...
The theory is, and Erol will happily drone on for hours about white privilege and might confirm this, is that non-white people can't be racist per se because as white people hold all the cards in Britain then from their position of power or privilege only white people can really be racist.
Maybe Erol can confirm because I don't really listen as its total owl dung.

Anyhow what is your position now, given the evidence which so excited you on Monday morning is blowing up in your face?

That there are a lot of racists in Britain and a lot of them are non-white?

That a lot of activists wanting to stir things up and cause division are manufacturing "evidence?" Doing a Smollett as its known.
Last edited by EnjoyingTheSun on Fri 16 Jul 2021 9:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Euros 2021

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Groucho wrote:
Fri 16 Jul 2021 9:04 am

I never follow any of your leads as invariably they are traps, as you have very neatly demonstrated...
Have you ever heard the phrase when you reach rock bottom, stop digging?

So if you say "and he was murdered by the gun which my witness will now show you" and I calmly point out actually that isn't a gun its a peach, you will immediately splutter "well yes,,,,yes it IS a peach but doesn't that just demonstrate your trickery and clever verbal gymnastics,"

I might ask does that peach identify as a gun or is that peach being a gun YOUR truth.

This would be your opportunity to shout out racist and run off to a safe space I assume?

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Re: Euros 2021

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EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Fri 16 Jul 2021 9:51 am
Groucho wrote:
Fri 16 Jul 2021 9:04 am

I never follow any of your leads as invariably they are traps, as you have very neatly demonstrated...
Have you ever heard the phrase when you reach rock bottom, stop digging?

So if you say "and he was murdered by the gun which my witness will now show you" and I calmly point out actually that isn't a gun its a peach, you will immediately splutter "well yes,,,,yes it IS a peach but doesn't that just demonstrate your trickery and clever verbal gymnastics,"

I might ask does that peach identify as a gun or is that peach being a gun YOUR truth.

This would be your opportunity to shout out racist and run off to a safe space I assume?
I have heard of the phrase 'when you find yourself in a hole - stop digging'

Now I know you are desperately scrambling for some leverage, because you've totally lost the plot... in fact you are spouting so much nonsense I'd be inclined to get a medical - just in case your blood pressure is about to cause a stroke!

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Re: Euros 2021

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Groucho wrote:
Fri 16 Jul 2021 10:49 am

Now I know you are desperately scrambling for some leverage, because you've totally lost the plot... in fact you are spouting so much nonsense I'd be inclined to get a medical - just in case your blood pressure is about to cause a stroke!
No I am perfectly calm and highly amused by you.
Its a bit hot which can make people irritable but you are really cheering me up so you have my thanks.
Blood pressure is A1, not suffering from PTSD as seems to be the usual symptoms now from hurty words, so all good thanks for your concern..

You however seem to be flailing around, changing your facts, not the facts, your facts, making up stories, admitting you don't actually look at the evidence you are quoting as gospel and throwing out insults because you've been rumbled old son.

If you don't want to be called on spouting nonsense, here's a tip. Stop spouting nonsense.
If you are asserting something is a fact and not your opinion, then perhaps look at the evidence that you are supplying to prove it is a fact.
Don't whine when someone calmly points out, "well it doesn't really say that does it?"

So moving back onto the facts........

Need me to summarise what you have alleged that has now been shown to be either untrue or totally made up?
Be pleased to, I know your eye for detail isn't what it could be.

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Re: Euros 2021

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The question 'is Marxism a good system to deal with racism' was asked. That may not have been the exact wording and I can not refer to it now because of the disruption caused by Hedge Fund (now banned) but that is my memory of the gist of the question.

The question is absurd. It is akin to asking is a wrench the best tool to saw wood with. Marxism , the political theory or the ideology does not speak about or to racism. It does not talk in terms of race at all. It was not designed or created to deal with the issues of racism just as a wrench is not designed to cut wood. So no it is not a good or best system or means of ending racism because that was never it's point or goal. It is no more a good means or tool or system to tackle racism than a wrench is a good means or tool or system to saw wood. The very question is absurd. It is beyond absurd.

What is more, it is the ultimate straw man argument because no one has said or is saying the way to end racism is to embrace marxism. No one. Not even the 'extreme marxist' organisation BLM in the US are saying that. Not before Floyd George and not after. Let alone the estimated 15 million to 26 million individual people that participated in the 2020 Black Lives Matter protests in the United States and the countless millions globally that did likewise in response to the murder of George Floyd committed in plain sight in public by an officer of the law. None. It is straw man arguing on steroids and applied to countless millions globally.

What is more and most depressing to me with this narrative is that we already know what the best way to end racism is. What the only route to ending it is. The way to end racism is through individuals making choices. That's it. Choosing not just to not be racist but also choosing to care about racism as an issue. Choosing to want to try and understand racism better so that they can not be racist themselves. Choosing how much of a priority ending racism is to them vs other things. That is the only way to end it. What we saw in the wake of the murder of Floyd George is exactly that. Millions of people, 10's of millions, 100's of millions globally all making the individual choice to go out on to the streets and stand against racism. To care about the issue of racism in our societies. That IS the route to ending racism and what happened in the wake of Floyd George, in terms of its scale and breath was unlike anything I have ever seen in my lifetime. It was unprecedented. It was inspiring. It was progress.

It has been argued that these people who chose and continue to choose to make the personal individual choice to make a stand against racism under the banner of BLM or by taking the knee, the 10's and hundreds of millions of them, should now all get together and agree to use a different banner because using BLM upsets some people. It is argued that their reluctance or unwillingness to do is evidence that standing against racism is not their real intent and aim. Yet more absurd and spurious arguments. What is more it is an argument that reeks of hypocrisy to me. Individual choice. You know ets that going off topic in a thread upsets people. You know this. Have you ever even once made the personal individual choice to start a new thread when you post knowing that other people will see it as going off topic in the spirit of not upset them ? Yet you argue that the 100's of millions of individuals around the globe that made the personal choice to go out and stand against racism should now change the banner under which they did so because it upsets some people ? That if they do not do this impossibility it is evidence that they are not sincere about wanting to end racism. Be the change you want to see.

Individuals making choices. The way to end racism. The only way to end it. Are you interested in that ejs ? Interested in ending racism ? I know individuals making personal choices is the only way to end racism. Just as I know what kind of personal choices can not and will not ever end racism. Choices like choosing to argue and advocate that 'as far as a racism problem exists in Britain, it really does not'. Choosing to approach any and every discussion about racism in terms of 'is it really that bad actually' and then spending all your time and use or your abilities to prove that. Choosing to believe and argue that when people take a stand against racism under the banner BLM or by taking the knee they are supporting extreme marxism. I know these kind of choices can not and will not ever end racism. Do you want to end racism ?

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Equating marxism to nazism and the rhetorical technique of 'scale jumping'.

Marxism as an ideology is as bad as Nazism. Stalin was as bad as Hitler. Soviet Russia was as bad as Nazi Germany. OK.

Any individual who choose today to identify with Marxism in any way , supports it, support aspects or been seen to be associated with it, is as bad as someone who does such with Nazism and should be treated by society as an individual in exactly the same way. Not OK.

This is real cancel culture on steroids. It is totalitarian. It seeks to define what is acceptable thought and what is not. Yanis Varoufakis a self proclaimed 'erratic marxist' is NOT the same as Isidore Heath Campbell or this person . They should NOT be treated in the same way. To argue they should is cancel culture on steroids. It is thought policing. It is extremism in action.

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erol wrote:
Sat 17 Jul 2021 7:07 am
Equating marxism to nazism and the rhetorical technique of 'scale jumping'.
Ah now we are getting to it :)

This usually runs as a companion piece to Communism has never really been tried property isn't it. No no that wasn't real Communism ?

We had the usual lengthy piece on why BLM MUST remain part of the anti racism movement. Even if it alienates more people than it encourages after all anyone not supporting BLM doesn't oppose racism. It is clever. It's very transparent but it's clever.
It stirs up crap and it gets your brand in front of people.
They have been doing it for years.
Were anyone to think look we are losing supporters because of the BLM link let's do a bit of a rebrand and rebuild which should get more supporters then you will of course see the less fluffy side of these Marxists. The organisers of the new movement would be slandered everyday.

Now we have a bit on Marxism because it was frankly getting embarrassing to keep avoiding a simple question so I guess it was an idea to dip ones toe into being a bit more honest with this piece.
Not really an outright I agree with Marxism, more of a its so so much better than fascism piece.
This by the way is why you'll now find anyone to the right of a Corbyn labelled as a fascist.
Drip drop.

Marxists need to overthrow the status quo and they will use whatever methods they can to do it after all it's a big change so they need to show why we need the change.

Child gets knocked down on a road because of lack of streetlights? The SWP will be there trying to turn it into a major story. Trying to get public opinion behind it. The poor child is a pawn, what they really want is to undermine the status quo and advance their cult.
Then it gets very nasty.
Were I or anyone else to point out that was the death really caused by a lack of streetlights and will ending capitalism really stop this ever happening again then I will be attacked as a fascist and I don't care about children being run over.

They have minimal support when they are open so they have to be more cunning.
They have to hijack exiting democratic parties. Corbyn gets power after Marxists hijacked the membership of the Labour Party and all of a sudden in a Damascus like conversion we have die hard Communists of 30 years standing suddenly join the party?


The problem with Marxism is, as a brand it is totally discredited. It has been tried several times, it is currently being tried and failing as usual.

Now I am certainly getting the gist that Erol favours Marxism or at least a diluted form of it.
Some would say socialism is a diluted version of Marxism. I have zero problem with socialism per se or any system that is part of the democratic process.
You vote something in it doesn't work you get the opportunity to vote them out, You even get the opportunity to complain about them while they are in power, That kind of thing.
Generally I think socialism cocks things up but the end game isn't a secret service knocking at your door in the middle of the night, having to eat your cat for food and murder. Millions of murders. That's what you get with Marxism. Every time.
erol wrote:
Sat 17 Jul 2021 7:07 am
Equating marxism to nazism and the rhetorical technique of 'scale jumping'.

Marxism as an ideology is as bad as Nazism. Stalin was as bad as Hitler. Soviet Russia was as bad as Nazi Germany. OK.
Now I'm not quite sure what Erol means here. That Hitler was definitely worse than Stalin, Soviet Russia was never as bad as Nazi Germany.
Maybe not, but here's a thought, how about we body swerve both?

How about we avoid anything where there is even a thousand to one chance we could get either?
Like Marxism is rebranding I assume fascism is as well.
I don't suppose either has in their manifesto, "First we abolish elections and take over all media, Then we create a secret police and encourage people to inform on each other so we can imprison people with any differing opinions. Obviously you still have some who wont shut up or try to get us out so we might have to murder people. We won't get carried away, a few million at the most."
Generally that wont get in. It will happen but they generally concentrate on Free Broadband that kind of thing.
erol wrote:
Sat 17 Jul 2021 7:07 am

Any individual who choose today to identify with Marxism in any way , supports it, support aspects or been seen to be associated with it, is as bad as someone who does such with Nazism and should be treated by society as an individual in exactly the same way. Not OK.
Think we are now getting a bit more open here. I'm getting Marxism is better than Fascism vibe here.
Maybe they have had a recount in China and Mao only killed 15 million not 55 million during the Great Leap Forward?
"So after much evidence we have Fascism killing 115 million but Marxism killing a mere 112 million so it is pretty obvious which is the best system."
I think maybe there is a miscommunication here. When people idly speculate how they might want to get executed, "I think I'd rather be shot than hung" It doesn't mean they want to be executed. It's not a vote to execute them.
erol wrote:
Sat 17 Jul 2021 7:07 am

This is real cancel culture on steroids. It is totalitarian. It seeks to define what is acceptable thought and what is not. Yanis Varoufakis a self proclaimed 'erratic marxist' is NOT the same as Isidore Heath Campbell or this person . They should NOT be treated in the same way. To argue they should is cancel culture on steroids. It is thought policing. It is extremism in action.
This is wonderful. The left invented our current cancel culture. Now they are facing some of their own medicine as in people complain when an extremist goes too far they accuse the right of cancel culture.
What was it Goebbels said? "Accuse the other side of that which you are guilty."

Then we will do a bit of false equivalence by comparing two obvious lunatics to one of Erol's heroes who is an leftist economist who comes up with theories of what will work instead of Capitalism. It wont but bless him for trying.

There have been other fascist governments. Portugal was fascist before Germany and was up to 1974. Some view Salazar as almost cuddly.
Would I ever say see fascism isn't all bad, look at Salazar?
Nope. Because it is undemocratic and authoritarian at the very least.
No he wasn't as bad as Hitler but once you go down that road it is only luck that stops you getting a Hitler or a Stalin. Or Lenin. Or Castro.

That isn't to say I think Erol favours secret police, no elections etc etc.
Erol is a good hearted chap. He want us to be more equal, fairer, to be less materialistic.
All things I agree with but whereas I am a realist Erol is naive.
Erol will say but we at least have to try.
Not an unfair point but Erol is an idealist that is prime for the Hard Left. What Lenin described as a useful idiot.
These authoritarian, totalitarian governments never start that way. They always end that way though.
They know what is best for us. They remove elections so we don't make a mistake of getting rid of them. Its all for our own good.

The devil always has the best tunes.

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Re: Euros 2021

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erol wrote:
Sat 17 Jul 2021 6:14 am
What is more, it is the ultimate straw man argument because no one has said or is saying the way to end racism is to embrace marxism. No one. Not even the 'extreme marxist' organisation BLM in the US are saying that.
The two out of the 3 founders of BLM who admit they are trained Marxists just want to end capitalism then? If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, looks like a duck, Chances are it’s a duck. If you are allergic to ducks maybe let’s just not take a chance. Maybe try the fish.
erol wrote:
Sat 17 Jul 2021 6:14 am
Not before Floyd George and not after. Let alone the estimated 15 million to 26 million individual people that participated in the 2020 Black Lives Matter protests in the United States and the countless millions globally
So you’ve given up on the 100s of millions? It’s a bit like cheat isn’t it? 5 kings. Not actually possible. OK 4 kings, bit unlikely I have 1 king. Err 2 kings.
So it is a BLM protest not an anti-racist protest?
erol wrote:
Sat 17 Jul 2021 6:14 am
we already know what the best way to end racism is. What the only route to ending it is. The way to end racism is through individuals making choices. That's it. Choosing not just to not be racist but also choosing to care about racism as an issue.
It’s getting as many people behind the idea, no?

Black people suffer because they are a minority in majority white countries, no?

So an organisation that is viewed by many as Marxist a system the majority are against and an organisation that is viewed as anti-white who are the majority might not be the best way to fight racism.

That is the aim isn’t it? To fight racism?
It’s not, hey this is a live and emotive subject we might pick up some followers here?

The only way to end racism peacefully is to get the majority onside that means to get white people onside.

So let’s look at the two most famous black civil rights leaders.

We have Malcolm X spouting this rhetoric
https://youtu.be/jtsyTh4QbFo

Or we have Martin Luther King Jnr
https://youtu.be/vP4iY1TtS3s

What is most likely to get the white majority onside?

Which one would you promote to give the speeches to get a majority of people who are white behind anti-racism?

Now to be fair to Malcolm X he had an awful childhood had undoubtedly faced more racism than MLK and therefore was more bitter and fiery and so was drawn to the Nation of Islam a divisive organisation who believed in segregation.

MLK had come from a fairly affluent background and whilst he faced racism, probably by no means to the degree that Malcolm X did. Plus he was a man of god.

We should also note that towards the end of his life Malcolm X turned away from the Nation of Islam and mellowed his views considerably which probably was a major reason the Nation of Islam arranged for him to be murdered.

So what is the aim do we keep a young Malcolm X at the forefront who is advocating hatred and division because his other views align with ours or do we push MLK to the front and sideline Malcolm X because MLK will get us the result we want.

It all depends on what result you really want I guess.

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Re: Euros 2021

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EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Sat 17 Jul 2021 10:30 am
erol wrote:
Sat 17 Jul 2021 6:14 am
What is more, it is the ultimate straw man argument because no one has said or is saying the way to end racism is to embrace marxism. No one. Not even the 'extreme marxist' organisation BLM in the US are saying that.
The two out of the 3 founders of BLM who admit they are trained Marxists just want to end capitalism then? If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, looks like a duck, Chances are it’s a duck. If you are allergic to ducks maybe let’s just not take a chance. Maybe try the fish.
erol wrote:
Sat 17 Jul 2021 6:14 am
Not before Floyd George and not after. Let alone the estimated 15 million to 26 million individual people that participated in the 2020 Black Lives Matter protests in the United States and the countless millions globally
So you’ve given up on the 100s of millions? It’s a bit like cheat isn’t it? 5 kings. Not actually possible. OK 4 kings, bit unlikely I have 1 king. Err 2 kings.
So it is a BLM protest not an anti-racist protest?
erol wrote:
Sat 17 Jul 2021 6:14 am
we already know what the best way to end racism is. What the only route to ending it is. The way to end racism is through individuals making choices. That's it. Choosing not just to not be racist but also choosing to care about racism as an issue.
It’s getting as many people behind the idea, no?

Black people suffer because they are a minority in majority white countries, no?

So an organisation that is viewed by many as Marxist a system the majority are against and an organisation that is viewed as anti-white who are the majority might not be the best way to fight racism.

That is the aim isn’t it? To fight racism?
It’s not, hey this is a live and emotive subject we might pick up some followers here?

The only way to end racism peacefully is to get the majority onside that means to get white people onside.

So let’s look at the two most famous black civil rights leaders.

We have Malcolm X spouting this rhetoric
https://youtu.be/jtsyTh4QbFo

Or we have Martin Luther King Jnr
https://youtu.be/vP4iY1TtS3s

What is most likely to get the white majority onside?

Which one would you promote to give the speeches to get a majority of people who are white behind anti-racism?

Now to be fair to Malcolm X he had an awful childhood had undoubtedly faced more racism than MLK and therefore was more bitter and fiery and so was drawn to the Nation of Islam a divisive organisation who believed in segregation.

MLK had come from a fairly affluent background and whilst he faced racism, probably by no means to the degree that Malcolm X did. Plus he was a man of god.

We should also note that towards the end of his life Malcolm X turned away from the Nation of Islam and mellowed his views considerably which probably was a major reason the Nation of Islam arranged for him to be murdered.

So what is the aim do we keep a young Malcolm X at the forefront who is advocating hatred and division because his other views align with ours or do we push MLK to the front and sideline Malcolm X because MLK will get us the result we want.

It all depends on what result you really want I guess.
Malcolm left the Nation in March 1964 renouncing the separatist beliefs of the Nation of Islam. Malcolm X later said that seeing Muslims of "all colors, from blue-eyed blondes to black-skinned Africans," interacting as equals led him to see Islam as a means by which racial problems could be overcome.

Just clearing up your statement, now if you wish to move from political ideology to religion and bring Islam into the equation while living in an Islamic country, please carry on digging.

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Re: Euros 2021

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EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Sat 17 Jul 2021 9:56 am
We had the usual lengthy piece on why BLM MUST remain part of the anti racism movement.
Stop it. Please just stop it. I have NOT said that BLM the organisation MUST remain part of the anti racism movement. Stop telling me that I have said this.

You HAVE said that not only must the organisation BLM not be in any way involved in the anti racism movement you have said that no one who is not involved in that organisation should use the words BLM or take the knee. You do this in the face of the reality that literally millions of people went out on the streets against racism under a banner of BLM and by talking the knee WITHOUT supporting Marxism in any way or even supporting the organisation BLM. We know this. We have seen it.
EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Sat 17 Jul 2021 9:56 am
Even if it alienates more people than it encourages ....
If and when vast numbers of people globally come out on to the streets in support of the cause of stopping marxist infiltrating and subverting anti racism movements, then I will accept that using the banner of BLM and taking the knee has and is alienating more people than it encourages. Until then I will use my eyes and ears to look at reality and make best guesses. The only people I actually see it alienating is culture war warriors like you and Priti Patel and the like who care more for such than they do about racism.
EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Sat 17 Jul 2021 9:56 am
after all anyone not supporting BLM doesn't oppose racism.
Stop it. Just stop it. No one has said or is saying anyone who does not support BLM the organisation does not oppose racism.

So now finally you have managed to piss even me off to the point where for now I am just going to give up and walk away. Congratulations.

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And he still doesn't get it.

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Re: Euros 2021

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duplicate
Last edited by EnjoyingTheSun on Sat 17 Jul 2021 12:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Groucho wrote:
Sat 17 Jul 2021 11:24 am
And he still doesn't get it.
I'd keep your head down Groucho until you are given your opinion mate.
Also I'd try and concentrate on what your opinion is because you go all over the place.
I know you don't have an attention to detail but let me try and help

You kicked off in another thread that there is still mass racial abuse on the English terraces.
You then changed that from the terraces to social media
You then changed that to well not English social media or indeed English terraces.

You come up with some nonsense to smear Man U fans who I as a rule have little time for but all it proved was yes they lead but their incidents of racial abuse were minuscule.

You allegedly saw bananas being thrown at West Ham. I assume you chose West Ham because they had a racist reputation so it hit the right note. Personalising it makes it anecdotal which is very hard to prove either way
But I then established that there were zero black players playing when you would have witnessed this alleged incident which throws its reality into even more doubt.
Balance of probabilities, you made it up. I know it, you certainly know it and anyone who has followed the thread knows it.

Staying with the abuse on the terraces you denied that it was possible that maybe these racists might have grown up a bit, maybe society evolved, maybe things are improving? Credit where it’s due. No they only stopped because of CCTV.
When it was pointed out that CCTV was there in the 70s when you allegedly personally witnessed this abuse you changed it to “well facial recognition wasn’t around.”

Then it was pointed out the authorities seemed to be perfectly capable of arresting people without facial recognition back then, and did so in droves, you went very quiet on the subject.

Then excitedly we had the mass pile on of racist abuse to the 3 players from English fans. Which you and others gleefully pointed out.

It was pointed out that generally what little abuse there was, was mainly non racist and disappointingly for you non British and some of the tiny amount left was actually from people who were black themselves.

So all I have left is that you seem to have a deep rooted desire to slag off the U.K. for reasons best known to yourself.

Any attempt I make to find out what is causing that deep rooted desire such as are you a Marxist maybe, that would fit, gets the shutters pulled up.

You could of course clear it up and say no I’m not a Marxist but I am mentally ill or produce another reason but you won’t.

I realise answering that question causes you a problem. Yes you could make something up, you have form after all, and say I am not a Marxist it’s a stupid idea but that then might be cutting the ground from under you.

You could say yes I am a Marxist and in my opinion it is the way forward certainly on racism, which I would respect for its honesty, but then you lead yourself into defending a system that has a lot of historical baggage, doesn’t work and has actually never solved racism in its existence, if anything it has exasperated it.

I feel your pain.

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Re: Euros 2021

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erol wrote:
Sat 17 Jul 2021 10:47 am

If and when vast numbers of people globally come out on to the streets in support of the cause of stopping marxist infiltrating and subverting anti racism movements, then I will accept that using the banner of BLM and taking the knee has and is alienating more people than it encourages.

Until then I will use my eyes and ears to look at reality and make best guesses. The only people I actually see it alienating is culture war warriors like you and Priti Patel and the like who care more for such than they do about racism.
So people have to actually protest about Marxism, booing the gesture because it is viewed as Marxist is not enough?
They are all racist?

Glad you bought Priti Patel into it. This is a BAME person who has views that do not align with the views that BAME people should uniformly hold?
They have been given their opinion and need to follow the script?
Her and that Rishi bloke need to know their place I guess?
There is one side that are fighting a culture war and when they are called on it they go back to the tactic accuse the other side of that which you are guilty.

Its getting a bit tired mate people are booing it. Might be an idea to change tactics depending on what the goal is here of course?.

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Re: Euros 2021

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EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Sat 17 Jul 2021 11:38 am
AFC wrote:
Sat 17 Jul 2021 10:44 am
Malcolm left the Nation in March 1964 renouncing the separatist beliefs of the Nation of Islam. Malcolm X later said that seeing Muslims of "all colors, from blue-eyed blondes to black-skinned Africans," interacting as equals led him to see Islam as a means by which racial problems could be overcome.

Just clearing up your statement, now if you wish to move from political ideology to religion and bring Islam into the equation while living in an Islamic country, please carry on digging.
Sorry you cleared up my statement by saying exactly what I said?
EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Sat 17 Jul 2021 10:30 am
We should also note that towards the end of his life Malcolm X turned away from the Nation of Islam and mellowed his views considerably which probably was a major reason the Nation of Islam arranged for him to be murdered.
I said Malcolm left the Nation towards the end of his life, you put it at March 1964.
The Nation murdered him 11 months later.
Yep cut the ground from under me there lol
I mean as gotcha moments go......

As for living in an Islamic country. I live in a secular country where most of the population are Muslims. They follow their religion quietly and I respect that and enjoy the call to prayer as adding to the atmosphere. I do my best to respect their culture.
Were that to change and it become a sharia country I'd move.
Not everything is exactly as I like it but again I put up with it, what I don't do is want the country change to suit me.
Clear enough?

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Re: Euros 2021

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EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Sat 17 Jul 2021 12:00 pm
EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Sat 17 Jul 2021 11:38 am
AFC wrote:
Sat 17 Jul 2021 10:44 am
Malcolm left the Nation in March 1964 renouncing the separatist beliefs of the Nation of Islam. Malcolm X later said that seeing Muslims of "all colors, from blue-eyed blondes to black-skinned Africans," interacting as equals led him to see Islam as a means by which racial problems could be overcome.

Just clearing up your statement, now if you wish to move from political ideology to religion and bring Islam into the equation while living in an Islamic country, please carry on digging.
Sorry you cleared up my statement by saying exactly what I said?
EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Sat 17 Jul 2021 10:30 am
We should also note that towards the end of his life Malcolm X turned away from the Nation of Islam and mellowed his views considerably which probably was a major reason the Nation of Islam arranged for him to be murdered.
I said Malcolm left the Nation towards the end of his life, you put it at March 1964.
The Nation murdered him 11 months later.
Yep cut the ground from under me there lol
I mean as gotcha moments go......

As for living in an Islamic country. I live in a secular country where most of the population are Muslims. They follow their religion quietly and I respect that and enjoy the call to prayer as adding to the atmosphere. I do my best to respect their culture.
Were that to change and it become a sharia country I'd move.
Not everything is exactly as I like it but again I put up with it, what I don't do is want the country change to suit me.
Clear enough?
Yet I'm sure if you woke up every morning to a torrent of abuse on Social Media from Turkish Cyp for being White and a non muslim, if indeed you have social media, threats to be lynched and death threats to you, your family and kids I'm sure you would be the first one to be moaning

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Re: Euros 2021

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I really should have seen all this coming tbh.

On twitter there were a lot of the usual Leftwaffe suspects putting up pictures of them watching the matches.
Unusual because as a rule they have very little other interests than politics.

I thought could view this one of two ways;
The tournament and our success is getting non football supporters engaged in it. After all even Head Office will deem to attend a semi final or higher.
Or it could be them giving it the "look look I'm working class too" bit as they are in a Hampstead pub tweeting while half listening to the game. Similar tactics involve in them feigning an interest in rap music.

Anyhow 3 missed penalties and away we go....

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Re: Euros 2021

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AFC wrote:
Sat 17 Jul 2021 12:13 pm

Yet I'm sure if you woke up every morning to a torrent of abuse on Social Media from Turkish Cyp for being White and a non muslim, if indeed you have social media, threats to be lynched and death threats to you, your family and kids I'm sure you would be the first one to be moaning
Well if the "torrent" of abuse was from Macedonia or Saudi Arabia or obviously faked I'd ignore it.
If it was genuine and a true indicator of a country. I'd move.

As you are trying to link one with the other, let's carry that equivalence to its conclusion.
There are 56 million people in England.
There are...what, 350,000 in TRNC.
So we are talking about 300 racists abusive messages.
Against tens of thousands of supportive messages.

So if we extrapolate what happened in England to TRNC then I would have got is 2 abusive messages and say what 500 supportive ones, a thousand?

Maybe I wouldn't leave. Going to be difficult to beat those numbers, I'm not that loveable.

Or I could say I'm going to ignore those 500-1000 messages of good will even though admittedly I cocked up and we're all pretty disappointed because those 2 messages, one of which was from the English guy up the road, as proof TRNC is a racist evil hell hole?

Dunno what do you think?
What would you do?

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Re: Euros 2021

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Post by AFC »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Sat 17 Jul 2021 12:29 pm
AFC wrote:
Sat 17 Jul 2021 12:13 pm

Yet I'm sure if you woke up every morning to a torrent of abuse on Social Media from Turkish Cyp for being White and a non muslim, if indeed you have social media, threats to be lynched and death threats to you, your family and kids I'm sure you would be the first one to be moaning
Well if the "torrent" of abuse was from Macedonia or Saudi Arabia or obviously faked I'd ignore it.
If it was genuine and a true indicator of a country. I'd move.

And so the truth emerges, took a while, they should all piss off back home, except the issue is most were born in the UK

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Re: Euros 2021

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AFC wrote:
Sat 17 Jul 2021 1:06 pm

And so the truth emerges, took a while, they should all piss off back home, except the issue is most were born in the UK
So you've gone from repeating pretty much exactly what I said to pretend I omitted it, to now attempting to put words in my mouth.
They ARE home.
Most of the abuse 7 out of 10 originated from outside the UK.
That is the issue and that is the evidence which no one has challenged.
Some are actually from black people which I find strange evidence to produce as proof of white racism tbh.

No comment on the rest of my post just an extremely poor attempt to take a bit of it and try to allege it says something different?

I mean if you are going down this road I believe they do give tips on it. Never answer a question, ask another question and insist they answer the new question. Round up others to pile on. If all else fails block. I don't know them all but I know most. Want me to put them up for you?

So as the evidence of white English people being fundamentally racist has blown up in your face, why do you hate England/Britain AFC?
Is it the political system?
Come on let's get to the bottom of this.
How can we improve it?
Maybe we should we get rid of capitalism?
I mean it will apparently solve climate change, racism and might even improve our chances in the Eurovision Song Contest?

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Re: Euros 2021

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And he still doesn't get it.

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Re: Euros 2021

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I really don't understand you eagerness to show a correlation between marxism and racial tolerance and capitalism and racism.

The issues of Islamophobia within the Conservative Party are far worse than any anti-semitic issues the Labour Party faced, however they dealt with them, yet the buffoon in power atm refuses to launch an inquiry even though he committed to an independent inquiry. Two-thirds of all incidents reported to the complaints team at the Tories' headquarters related to allegations of anti-Muslim discrimination...(source https://news.sky.com/story/tory-islamop ... s-12316516) The report was a damning indictment of the discrimination rife in the Conservative Party, and it goes all the way up to the Prime Minister.

For me a marxists is as likely to be a racist as some on the right of the conservative party, both are extreme spectrums of the political process, and quite often both will be in agreement on certain policy issues, but for different reasons.

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Re: Euros 2021

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I think this topic could drag on forever with neither side yielding.

A few facts and opinions ;
According to Manchester police the graffiti on Rashford’s mural was not Racist even though the left wing woke BBC and Guardian said quite plainly it was.
When the leader of BLM was shot Diane Abbott said the following “Nobody should have to potentially pay with their life because they stood up for racial justice”. So she tried to turn it into a racist episode which it patently was not.
If I were to say that DA is bloody useless and out of her depth, which she obviously is, I would probably be branded as a racist but if I said the same about Matt Hancock not a murmur would be heard.
The left wing have a vested interest in stirring up racial discord and are managing to do so very well. I know no one in the pub where I watched the euros who were not irritated badly by this taking the knee rubbish but I am pretty sure that a different gesture would be widely accepted. BLM are basically a Marxist criminal organisation who decided to wreck parts of London and injure 22 police officers, at least one very badly, to protest about a murder that occurred over 4000 miles away not in London where they rioted.

I do not apologise if any of this sounds racist because these are just a few of the examples which could be given of how the left wing are stoking the fire.

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Re: Euros 2021

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Groucho wrote:
Sat 17 Jul 2021 2:25 pm
And he still doesn't get it.
Give us another anecdote about you standing on the Chicken Run at Upton Park, while you are awaiting your next opinion to be given to you :)

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Re: Euros 2021

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AFC wrote:
Sat 17 Jul 2021 2:44 pm

The issues of Islamophobia within the Conservative Party are far worse than any anti-semitic issues the Labour Party faced, however they dealt with them
So how does this work, remind me?
I answer this bit of whataboutism which has zero to do with Euros 2021 and are then accused of taking the topic off thread?
That right?

Unless some of the Muslim players were allegedly abused at Euros 2021. When you are looking for that link about the petition with the slave connotations you bought up that I asked for, twice, maybe you dig dig this one up too?

Maybe also find some film of the Tories barracking Pritti Patel at the party conference? Asian MPs needing body guards?
Sajid Javid, Alok Sharma, Rishi Sunak, Suella Braverman, Shailesh Vara, Nadhim Zahawi, Nus Ghani, Seema Kennedy?
Any will do, it doesn't have to be Pritti Patel.

When you say however they dealt with it, do you mean appointing an Asian lady Shami Chakrabarti to run the enquiry?
Let’s not forget there is a strong suspicion that Labour’s blind spot on anti-semitism may have more than a little to do with their wish to shore up the Muslim vote which dwarfs the potential Jewish vote.

Corbyn could have easily appointed a Jewish person to look at anti-semitism in the Labour Party. Lets be honest most of the members of JVL wouldn’t think it was slightly anti-semitic if Momentum suddenly announced Jewish members of Labour should wear yellow stars.

But no with his uncanny political instincts and contempt for Jewish members of his party he appointed Chakrabati.
She surprisingly gave them a clean bill of health and now we have to listen to them demonising the EHRC for finding there is substantial evidence of anti-semitism.

So if you don't know the form, now you need to try and get my post replying to your post deleted for being off topic. You may have to sacrifice your post but still, small price to pay eh?

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Re: Euros 2021

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Post by AFC »

you are the one constantly bringing marxism into a thread about racism, not to mention black gangs, black knife crime. Like what does any of this have to do with Racism. I really dont get it. What are you saying, because of black gangs, this justifies racism. Lets all abuse blacks as they gather in gangs??? I think its time you stop trolling this thread

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Re: Euros 2021

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AFC wrote:
Sat 17 Jul 2021 3:53 pm
you are the one constantly bringing marxism into a thread about racism, not to mention black gangs, black knife crime. Like what does any of this have to do with Racism. I really dont get it. What are you saying, because of black gangs, this justifies racism. Lets all abuse blacks as they gather in gangs??? I think its time you stop trolling this thread
Ok I'll spell it out slowly.
Bullet points.
BLM. Black Lives Matter.
Footballers taking the knee. BLM. Being booed because of Marxist links.
Black people dying in far higher numbers because of black on black knife crime. Black lives don't seem to matter quite so so much.
Getting it?

To remind you, you were the first to bring up the racist abuse the 3 penalty takers were getting
AFC wrote:
Mon 12 Jul 2021 11:42 am
I see all the racists cheering England on, now turning on and racially abusing the black players.

Doesn't it make you proud to be English!
I also didn't bring up the taking of the knee, I was only talking football in this thread, my first input on it was in reply to you talking about it if you care to scroll back?

So you can slag off England in its entirety because of it's racism is fair enough but anyone trying to say that's not fair or accurate is a troll?
Now you have bought Islamaphobia into it?

I accept you will put words in my mouth, takes words out of context, feign that you don't understand what I am saying or just plain lie but please use some reading comprehension and accuracy on your own posts.

Just be honest you want free rein to slag off England or whatever but anyone who doesn't agree is a troll or racist?

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Re: Euros 2021

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And he still doesn't get it.

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Re: Euros 2021

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Groucho wrote:
Sat 17 Jul 2021 5:16 pm
And he still doesn't get it.
Just going to keep saying that eh?

Probably wise, stops you making an idiot of yourself if you get into details.

Come on give us a burst of “I’m forever blowing bu11sh#t.....” 🤣🤣🤣🤣

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Re: Euros 2021

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Post by AFC »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Sat 17 Jul 2021 3:26 pm
AFC wrote:
Sat 17 Jul 2021 2:44 pm

The issues of Islamophobia within the Conservative Party are far worse than any anti-semitic issues the Labour Party faced, however they dealt with them
So how does this work, remind me?
I answer this bit of whataboutism which has zero to do with Euros 2021 and are then accused of taking the topic off thread?
That right?

Unless some of the Muslim players were allegedly abused at Euros 2021. When you are looking for that link about the petition with the slave connotations you bought up that I asked for, twice, maybe you dig dig this one up too?

Maybe also find some film of the Tories barracking Pritti Patel at the party conference? Asian MPs needing body guards?
Sajid Javid, Alok Sharma, Rishi Sunak, Suella Braverman, Shailesh Vara, Nadhim Zahawi, Nus Ghani, Seema Kennedy?
Any will do, it doesn't have to be Pritti Patel.

When you say however they dealt with it, do you mean appointing an Asian lady Shami Chakrabarti to run the enquiry?
Let’s not forget there is a strong suspicion that Labour’s blind spot on anti-semitism may have more than a little to do with their wish to shore up the Muslim vote which dwarfs the potential Jewish vote.

Corbyn could have easily appointed a Jewish person to look at anti-semitism in the Labour Party. Lets be honest most of the members of JVL wouldn’t think it was slightly anti-semitic if Momentum suddenly announced Jewish members of Labour should wear yellow stars.

But no with his uncanny political instincts and contempt for Jewish members of his party he appointed Chakrabati.
She surprisingly gave them a clean bill of health and now we have to listen to them demonising the EHRC for finding there is substantial evidence of anti-semitism.

So if you don't know the form, now you need to try and get my post replying to your post deleted for being off topic. You may have to sacrifice your post but still, small price to pay eh?
YOU WERE FIRST TO RAISE ANIT SEMITISM WAY BEFORE MY COMMENT lol maybe you can remind me what anti semitism has to do with the thread. After all we had a Jewish player in the England team, but there were no anti semitic remarks in any of the social media posts. So yes you were the first to go off topic. The issue with Islamophobia in the Conservative party outweighs any anti semitic issues the Labour party has faced. Labour party dealt with them, Boris Promised an independent enquiry then went back on his word.

I'll make it easier for you...
Labour party promised an enquiry and now very importantly here HAD AN ENQUIRY
Boris promised an enquiry if elected and DID NOT DELIVER ON HIS PROMISE see the difference here???

Two-thirds of all discrimination complaints analysed were anti-Muslim. In total, the party’s central database recorded 727 incidents of alleged discrimination – of which 496 related to Muslims and Islam. Approximately three quarters of these involved the use of social media. The "poison" of Islamophobia is "very widespread" in the Conservative Party but is being “ignored” by Tory leaders, a former co-chair of the party has said.
Baroness Warsi said the problem was present at all levels of her party and claimed some of the Tories’ own campaigns had included anti-Muslim messages.

Turning to The names you mentioned most though Asian are not muslim. Im sure because they all look the same to you so they must all be Islamic Terrorists. Most are Hindu's or Sikhs... I can send you a list of the differences if you like

Zac Goldsmith’s 2016 London mayoral campaign was investigated. Branded “disgusting” at the time, Goldsmith published a piece in the Mail on Sunday with the headline, “Are we really going to hand the world’s greatest city to a Labour Party that thinks terrorists are its friends?”. Alongside it was a photo of the 7/7 bombings. Goldsmith went on to paint rival Sadiq Khan as a security risk, claiming he had links with extremists prior to becoming a member of parliament and continued to support Islamic State to the present day without any proof.

The inquiry also investigated Johnson’s comments about veiled Muslim women. Islamophobic attacks on Muslim women who wear veils have risen since Boris Johnson compared them to “letterboxes”, a watchdog has found. Not racist at all.

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