Swings and roundabouts I guess. No doubt we’ll have used our luck up in that game and lose 1-0 due to a dodgy decision in the i’ties favour.EnjoyingTheSun wrote: ↑Fri 09 Jul 2021 8:50 amI agree, although it was probably a weaker shout than the one on Kane in the first half.
Sometimes the player is going so fast that a minimal contact will send them off balance and to the ground and look as if the player is trying to buy a penalty.
Other times there is enough contact to impede a player which is a foul but not enough to knock him to the ground so the player will make the most of it and go to ground easily. It’s still a foul and still a penalty but you can’t help thinking the victim is the cheat.
The problem is, apart from the occasional obvious holding, no referee will give a penalty if the player stays on his feet. If a player gets body checked and remains on his feet he won’t get a penalty.
Even Pierluigi Collina, the best referee there has been, was quoted as telling a player that “it was a foul but I couldn’t give the penalty because you stayed on your feet.”
So players gild they lily, because unless they do they are cheated out of a penalty.
To add to the fun the rules are now that if your arms are by your sides and the ball is hammered at you at 100 mph while your back is turned and hits your arm then that’s a penalty! Deliberate or otherwise if the ball hits your arm it’s a penalty. Spurs conceded a penalty at Newcastle that even their manager was embarrassed by but it was correct according to the new rules.
So over the years you are going to see some pretty awful penalties given against your team, so enjoy them when you get given one. It’ll even out over time, England had goal chalked off that was 4 feet over the line. Spurs had one chalked off against Man U where the keeper scooping it out of the goal was 4 feet over the line.
Euros 2021
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Re: Euros 2021
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Re: Euros 2021
Generally these things even out. Well except if your a Man U or Liverpool supporter when you have to commit genocide to concede a penalty.
Hopefully our luck holds. Italy have probably been the best side in the tournament overall but often the best side doesn't win an International tournament often having done the heavy lifting for another team to nick it.
I'm hoping that holds.
Either way we've had a few nice days believing.
I'm just thrilled that tub of lard James Corden flew in from America without any quarantine hassles and got a ticket for the semi and final. That was a real weight off.
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Re: Euros 2021
Hopefully. It will be very tough, but you never know.EnjoyingTheSun wrote: ↑Sat 10 Jul 2021 7:23 pmGenerally these things even out. Well except if your a Man U or Liverpool supporter when you have to commit genocide to concede a penalty.
Hopefully our luck holds. Italy have probably been the best side in the tournament overall but often the best side doesn't win an International tournament often having done the heavy lifting for another team to nick it.
I'm hoping that holds.
Either way we've had a few nice days believing.
I'm just thrilled that tub of lard James Corden flew in from America without any quarantine hassles and got a ticket for the semi and final. That was a real weight off.
My mate back home managed to get a cat3 ticket (€295). Really pleased for him. He is a member of the England club, was at the semi final in Russia and semi against the Danes.
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Re: Euros 2021
No chance. We been storing up bad luck for 55 years. We got bucket loads more due and so much more to boot.
3 - 1 England. You heard it here first. Gonna be the best birthday ever.
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Re: Euros 2021
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Re: Euros 2021
Love your optimism. Sadly, after 40 years of following Sunderland and England, I have no such faith.
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Re: Euros 2021
England and Brentford for me. After 74 years and something like 11 failed playoffs the Bees are finally in the top division ! The times they are a changing. It's coming home.Trigger wrote: ↑Sun 11 Jul 2021 8:44 amLove your optimism. Sadly, after 40 years of following Sunderland and England, I have no such faith.
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Re: Euros 2021
Could turn out to be a great year for you then if tonight goes well.erol wrote: ↑Sun 11 Jul 2021 9:24 amEngland and Brentford for me. After 74 years and something like 11 failed playoffs the Bees are finally in the top division ! The times they are a changing. It's coming home.
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Re: Euros 2021
No chance. We been storing up bad luck for 55 years. We got bucket loads more due and so much more to boot.
3 - 1 England. You heard it here first. Gonna be the best birthday ever.
[/quote]
Happy birthday mate.
I think our name might be on it but I think you have started on the birthday champagne a bit early if you think it’s going to be 3-1, it’s going to be very very tight.
1-0 England. Harry to score
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Re: Euros 2021
Happy birthday Erol. Hope it’s the best one ever for you
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Re: Euros 2021
Happy birthday mate.EnjoyingTheSun wrote: ↑Sun 11 Jul 2021 10:06 amNo chance. We been storing up bad luck for 55 years. We got bucket loads more due and so much more to boot.
3 - 1 England. You heard it here first. Gonna be the best birthday ever.
I think our name might be on it but I think you have started on the birthday champagne a bit early if you think it’s going to be 3-1, it’s going to be very very tight.
1-0 England. Harry to score
[/quote]
1-0 is all that is needed.
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Re: Euros 2021
Started last night my friend. This one is gonna be a marathon not a sprintEnjoyingTheSun wrote: ↑Sun 11 Jul 2021 10:06 amI think our name might be on it but I think you have started on the birthday champagne a bit early if you think it’s going to be 3-1, it’s going to be very very tight.
1-0 England. Harry to score
Here's the thing. My 3 -1 is not so much a prediction as it's me choosing the myth I want to believe in right now. Way I see it, if it's a matter of choice, ill take 3-1 thanks.
It's coming home and I'll take any result. any way it comes. But it is coming
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Re: Euros 2021
Hope you remembered to make the right wish!erol wrote: ↑Sun 11 Jul 2021 10:29 am
Started last night my friend. This one is gonna be a marathon not a sprint
Here's the thing. My 3 -1 is not so much a prediction as it's me choosing the myth I want to believe in right now. Way I see it, if it's a matter of choice, ill take 3-1 thanks.
It's coming home and I'll take any result. any way it comes. But it is coming
I am going to leave the whole myth choosing and believing in unicorns without comment, today is not the day!
If England play with pride and give it a good go leaving everything on the pitch I'll be happy.
I really don't think it is a game for the neutral though, I'm thinking we can look forward to at least 95 minutes of pure sh#thousery.
With football I'm hypocritical enough to take a 1-0 win boring the daylights out of the world rather than taking part in a 5-4 loss that thrills the world. Waited too long, I remember losing to Germany in 1970 after being 2-0 up.
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Re: Euros 2021
Another one to add to the collection.
Had concerns with the line up. 3 at the back with 2 wing backs and 2 holding midfielders.
The old joke with full backs is they aren’t skilful enough to be a winger or tall enough to be a centre half hence they become a full back. Wing backs to my mind are full backs who aren’t that great a defender and used if you haven’t got the guts to play wingers.
Fantastic start.
I thought at the time this might be a bit early though. Give me a goal in the last minute over the first minute any day.
First 15 were good and then.....nothing.
We sat back and set ourselves up to defend one goal for 75 minutes.
I guess the idea was to hit them on the break?
Problem is with everyone behind the ball you have no outlet, you just lump the ball out for them to start again. Italy can hold a lead for 75-88 minutes, they do it in their club football every week.
We can’t.
And here’s the rub, because they play like that every week they know how to break defences down when they are doing it.
Also once you go on the back foot and go defensive it is difficult/impossible to get out of it and change tactics.
As for the penalties, it really isn’t difficult.
Hit it hard in the corner, either very low or very high. Even if the keeper guesses right he can’t save it.
Or you can shuffle around in a game of bluff double bluff which means you inevitably lose any power in the penalty so you are now gambling the keeper picks wrong.
What Rashford was thinking I don’t know. Jorginho is one of the best penalty takers in the world but Pickford showed if the keeper doesn’t commit themselves then his penalties are very saveable because they aren’t hit with power.
The last two penalties were just bad penalties.
Too weak at a perfect height for the keeper.
I feel sorry for Pickford. Had a great game, even nearly stopped the goal and saved two penalties.
As for the players who took them, they were a bit young but it’s a young team. Grealish and Sterling are not penalty takers to my knowledge plus you’ve got to want to take one. It’s as much bottle as technique which is why you get your technique bang on. Hard in the corner. Every time.
Sancho was a strange choice. It seems that Southgate doesn’t trust him much given his limited playing time in the tournament but trusts him enough to go on with 1 minute to go and to take a penalty when chances are he wouldn’t have touched the ball. 100% he is more skilful that Walker or Henderson and has better technique but that’s a big ask of any player and this is one you have doubts about.
Maybe just have players practise not fannying around and learn to drill the ball as hard as they can into the corner. At 100k a week I think the keeper should be able to do that.
Let’s not overthink this.
Remember, we were the team in extra time playing for penalties!
Had concerns with the line up. 3 at the back with 2 wing backs and 2 holding midfielders.
The old joke with full backs is they aren’t skilful enough to be a winger or tall enough to be a centre half hence they become a full back. Wing backs to my mind are full backs who aren’t that great a defender and used if you haven’t got the guts to play wingers.
Fantastic start.
I thought at the time this might be a bit early though. Give me a goal in the last minute over the first minute any day.
First 15 were good and then.....nothing.
We sat back and set ourselves up to defend one goal for 75 minutes.
I guess the idea was to hit them on the break?
Problem is with everyone behind the ball you have no outlet, you just lump the ball out for them to start again. Italy can hold a lead for 75-88 minutes, they do it in their club football every week.
We can’t.
And here’s the rub, because they play like that every week they know how to break defences down when they are doing it.
Also once you go on the back foot and go defensive it is difficult/impossible to get out of it and change tactics.
As for the penalties, it really isn’t difficult.
Hit it hard in the corner, either very low or very high. Even if the keeper guesses right he can’t save it.
Or you can shuffle around in a game of bluff double bluff which means you inevitably lose any power in the penalty so you are now gambling the keeper picks wrong.
What Rashford was thinking I don’t know. Jorginho is one of the best penalty takers in the world but Pickford showed if the keeper doesn’t commit themselves then his penalties are very saveable because they aren’t hit with power.
The last two penalties were just bad penalties.
Too weak at a perfect height for the keeper.
I feel sorry for Pickford. Had a great game, even nearly stopped the goal and saved two penalties.
As for the players who took them, they were a bit young but it’s a young team. Grealish and Sterling are not penalty takers to my knowledge plus you’ve got to want to take one. It’s as much bottle as technique which is why you get your technique bang on. Hard in the corner. Every time.
Sancho was a strange choice. It seems that Southgate doesn’t trust him much given his limited playing time in the tournament but trusts him enough to go on with 1 minute to go and to take a penalty when chances are he wouldn’t have touched the ball. 100% he is more skilful that Walker or Henderson and has better technique but that’s a big ask of any player and this is one you have doubts about.
Maybe just have players practise not fannying around and learn to drill the ball as hard as they can into the corner. At 100k a week I think the keeper should be able to do that.
Let’s not overthink this.
Remember, we were the team in extra time playing for penalties!
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Re: Euros 2021
The best side won. And totally agree about scoring too early. When you defend a lead for that long your mindset changes to that of defence. Once you do concede, it’s very hard to reverse the pattern. You see it every week in the premier league.
Oh well, at least I have another season in league 1 with Sunderland to look forward to.
Oh well, at least I have another season in league 1 with Sunderland to look forward to.
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Re: Euros 2021
Yes couldn’t argue with the result but tbh I didn’t think the Italians were anything special.Trigger wrote: ↑Mon 12 Jul 2021 9:03 amThe best side won. And totally agree about scoring too early. When you defend a lead for that long your mindset changes to that of defence. Once you do concede, it’s very hard to reverse the pattern. You see it every week in the premier league.
Oh well, at least I have another season in league 1 with Sunderland to look forward to.
You ever catch that documentary series on Sunderland on Netflix? Very good.
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Re: Euros 2021
During penalty practise, surely after all these year they must practise them, do you think anyone ever thought to say “loving the strictly routine Marcus but just put your laces through it son”?
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Re: Euros 2021
Would someone remind Mr Southgate that the aim of football is to WiN, not to come second
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Re: Euros 2021
I’ve watched a couple of episodes. It’s too painful. Might watch it one day when / if we make it back to the premier.EnjoyingTheSun wrote: ↑Mon 12 Jul 2021 9:18 amYes couldn’t argue with the result but tbh I didn’t think the Italians were anything special.Trigger wrote: ↑Mon 12 Jul 2021 9:03 amThe best side won. And totally agree about scoring too early. When you defend a lead for that long your mindset changes to that of defence. Once you do concede, it’s very hard to reverse the pattern. You see it every week in the premier league.
Oh well, at least I have another season in league 1 with Sunderland to look forward to.
You ever catch that documentary series on Sunderland on Netflix? Very good.
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Re: Euros 2021
I don’t think Southgate set us up to lose but he set us up so it was very hard to win.
Even if you have 10 men behind the ball who all do their job well, it only takes a defection from a long shot and a decent corner and you’ll concede. The more possession the other side has the more chances you give for that to happen. For long periods the Italians had 98% of the possession.
There are a lot of positives. It’s a young team and we are playing the right way. But there is still an enormous amount of work to do.
We don’t look THAT comfortable knocking the ball around, it’s too slow, we don’t make angles for the player in possession.
Players look sideways or back as first option. Players aren’t comfortable receiving the ball unless they are in acres of space. If you look at players like Xavi and Iniesta they would demand the ball with two opponents up their bum because their first touch is so good. The Germans always joke an English players second touch is a slide tackle.
Also we need to be less rigid. Phillips and Rice have been immense in this tournament but we needed a different game plan rather than swap a tired Rice for Henderson, another defensive midfielder.
We needed to be brave.
Also if you have ball players, you keep possession and don’t have to have players who can throw in a good slide tackle to recover the ball they just lost.
After 50 years of stagnation there has been progress but there needs to be a lot more work and a bit more bravery.the way we played last night was at best a guarantee you’d make it to penalties which we are terrible at.
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Re: Euros 2021
I doubt whether Rashford or Sancho had the time to actually kick the ball before having to take a penalty, and to ask a 19yo who had never taken a penalty to take the defining one is absolutely crazy. However, justice was done because the Italians were the better team by far and played us off the park.
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Re: Euros 2021
It is totally unacceptable that a 19 y.o who was never an England regular and most pundits felt should not have made the final squad, have to step up to take the defining penalty.
Sterling, should have taken that responsibility as a senior player in that team. He has the experience, has won trophies and has to take the responsibility, rather than a very shy kid who only became an England regular during the tournament.
I see all the racists cheering England on, now turning on and racially abusing the black players.
Doesn't it make you proud to be English!
Sterling, should have taken that responsibility as a senior player in that team. He has the experience, has won trophies and has to take the responsibility, rather than a very shy kid who only became an England regular during the tournament.
I see all the racists cheering England on, now turning on and racially abusing the black players.
Doesn't it make you proud to be English!
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Re: Euros 2021
Southgate defensive nature came to the front ( again). The first 30 mins England were well on top and Italy were struggling to deal with them. So instead of continuing in that vain Southgate chose to try and hold what they had. Unfortunately this gave Italy so much possession it constantly pushed England back further and further.
There was only one side that was gonna win the game and England were clinging on for penalties.
Southgate got exposed and made several big mistakes during the 120 mins.
Agreed that 3 penalties were very poor.
There was only one side that was gonna win the game and England were clinging on for penalties.
Southgate got exposed and made several big mistakes during the 120 mins.
Agreed that 3 penalties were very poor.
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Re: Euros 2021
If you look at the twitter timelines for all 3 of the players the comments have been overwhelmingly supportive.
Overwhelmingly.
In fact because I was horrified I had a very good long look and found nothing like the abusive screenshots floating around.
When I searched for the names of the screenshots, surprisingly some were black themselves.
Weird, I can only assume the N word was being used in some street/rappy context or maybe to stir things up and cause division.
Some were 10+ years old and simply awful emojis so could have related to anything but not last night.
Some were from people abroad. one from a person in Zimbabwe.
Some accounts didn’t seem to exist they could have been deleted of course but generally they will leave some sort of footprint.
But hey don’t take my word for it, "yeah you would say that", check yourself.
I’ll pm you the screenshots its generally the same few screenshots being used.
I don’t want to put them up as I don’t want to give oxygen to that kind of poison.
I'd rather you looked for this evidence yourself though, I don't want to be seen to be guiding you.
Like I say don’t believe me, check out the players timelines on twitter and you’ll struggle to find ANYTHING offensive.
Maybe some people are telling lies and spreading poison to stir division? Might not be just one set of extremists who do that?
Or you can just take it on the face of it and believe what you want to believe.
If you do find one please send me a link. NOT a screen shot, they can be easily faked.
At most it seems to be the same 12 quotes floating around so even if they are all on the level let’s not let a few lowlifes smear an entire country when these lads have received thousands and thousands of positive and supportive messages.
Btw I don’t count pointing out it was a rubbish penalty as racist. They WERE rubbish penalties as was Kane's against Denmark.
Admittedly It might not necessarily be the kindest thing to write to a young lad who must be devastated, but it isn’t racist as such, their penalties were rubbish as was Kane’s against Denmark.
Never forget all racists are nasty people but it doesn’t follow that all nasty people are racists.
Last edited by EnjoyingTheSun on Mon 12 Jul 2021 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Euros 2021
Italy deserved it but we gave them the game tbh.Brazen wrote: ↑Mon 12 Jul 2021 11:11 amI doubt whether Rashford or Sancho had the time to actually kick the ball before having to take a penalty, and to ask a 19yo who had never taken a penalty to take the defining one is absolutely crazy. However, justice was done because the Italians were the better team by far and played us off the park.
As for the penalties it's a young team, I assume all that took one volunteered so you can only guess they are confident.
I was surprised to see Maguire take one tbf, your big centre-half is not generally who you want taking a pen.
Yes they were young but generally footballers are young.
Generally they're retired in their early 30s , we have all got kids older than most of the players on that pitch who we probably wouldn't trust to pay a bill for us in England?
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Re: Euros 2021
Agree with all that.Walesforever wrote: ↑Mon 12 Jul 2021 12:23 pmSouthgate defensive nature came to the front ( again). The first 30 mins England were well on top and Italy were struggling to deal with them. So instead of continuing in that vain Southgate chose to try and hold what they had. Unfortunately this gave Italy so much possession it constantly pushed England back further and further.
There was only one side that was gonna win the game and England were clinging on for penalties.
Southgate got exposed and made several big mistakes during the 120 mins.
Agreed that 3 penalties were very poor.
Re Southgate he's generally got more right than wtong and I semi and a final in two tournaments is a good batting average but we still have a long way to go. Just need to be a bit braver.
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Re: Euros 2021
Duplicate
Last edited by EnjoyingTheSun on Mon 12 Jul 2021 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Euros 2021
EnjoyingTheSun wrote: ↑Mon 12 Jul 2021 2:27 pmSterling doesn't take penalties to my knowledge nor does Grealish. Some players take them some don't.AFC wrote: ↑Mon 12 Jul 2021 11:42 am
It is totally unacceptable that a 19 y.o who was never an England regular and most pundits felt should not have made the final squad, have to step up to take the defining penalty.
Sterling, should have taken that responsibility as a senior player in that team. He has the experience, has won trophies and has to take the responsibility, rather than a very shy kid who only became an England regular during the tournament.
By the way I should let you know I will vote for Nigel Farage at the next election
If you ever go back to the Euro 96 semi final the vastly experienced 28 year old Paul Ince, a more gritty and confident guy you couldn't hope to find, couldn't even watch them let alone take one.
In 98 I assume he was pressganged into taking one and of course missed.
What's the phrase, a volounteer is worth 10 pressed men?
Those lads stepped up and credit to them for that. Some should maybe look at themselves and think they should have stepped up
BTW I added to your quote to show how easy it is to falsify stuff and I'm a very basic PC user. If I could use photoshop I could probably have you in full Nazi regalia
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Re: Euros 2021
From my perspective I find that comment ungracious, rude and pompous. Southgate just led the England team to the best result in my life time. What is more they have genuinely inspired me in a way no other England team has before in my life time. They delivered me, if not the best birthday ever then definitely top three birthday ever. I thank them for that and I thank them for the role model they are setting to the young. Call me an old fart but you know ideas like leadership is about personal qualities of the leader. That things like honesty, sincerity , humility - ideas like this matter and are something the young should aspire to. I want a generation of British youth to have the chance to aspire to be Southgate, become him. Old school definitions of the qualities of leadership.
It is easy to mock footballer's and ex footballers are over paid dilatant's with little between their ears. Yet I hear Gary Nevil talk about these kind of things and what he says makes sense to me. Important sense.
Thank you Southgate and the entire England team for the best result ever in my life and one cracker of a birthday I will not forget.
The best is yet to come. Volume three - return of the kings.
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Re: Euros 2021
And while I am here
The game I saw ended 1-1. One of those goals was well on the spectrum of 'the beautiful game' and one was not.
The game I saw ended 1-1. One of those goals was well on the spectrum of 'the beautiful game' and one was not.
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Re: Euros 2021
They all count the same.
You’d have turned your nose up at a winner coming off Kane’s backside with a miss hit shinned cross from Sterling?
I’m a purist re football but I’d have cheered just as loud.
When I’m a neutral I look for beauty but club or country, I’ll endure a lot of sh@thousery for the right result
When Tottenham beat Arsenal in the semi-final in 91 when Gazza did that famous free kick I cheered that free kick and thought it was brilliant, audacious and everything you want to see in football. A top 10 memory.
But in all honesty I cheered even louder for Lineker’s weak third which went through the keepers hands because it killed the game for Arsenal.
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Re: Euros 2021
I don't consider myself a racist in any way whatsoever, but I do not agree with teams "taking the knee". This I believe is a political move and the BLM organisation has become a very powerful worldwide organisation in itself. Nothing to do with football, baseball, F1, soccer, rugby or synchronised swimming, etc, etc..
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Re: Euros 2021
In my view what makes this 'political' more than anything else is not the simple gesture itself but the reaction to it from some quarters. To me it's a simple, not in your face gesture, that you would literally miss if you blinked and that those who do it explicitly say is done in support of equality and anti racism and nothing more. You do not have to support it or do it yourself but you do have a choice to just ignore it. Or 'politicise it' by jumping up and down and making it a mountain when its not even a tenth of a mole hill and making out that it is something that it is not and that it is a thin end of a wedge that will and can only lead to the enslavement of all of us under some Marxist / fascist totalitarian government if we do not take a stand against it now.benjaminbutton wrote: ↑Tue 13 Jul 2021 2:48 pmI don't consider myself a racist in any way whatsoever, but I do not agree with teams "taking the knee". This I believe is a political move and the BLM organisation has become a very powerful worldwide organisation in itself. Nothing to do with football, baseball, F1, soccer, rugby or synchronised swimming, etc, etc..
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Re: Euros 2021
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... r-24517398
So it seems we are talking about 1000 tweets. Out of a population of 56 million it doesn't seem to be an avalanche but it's 1000 too many for sure.
If you said there are 1000 racists in England I'd say I thought there would be more tbh.
But its a tiny tiny amount, we've probably got 1000 people who can speak Klingon in England.
But wait
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sport ... rseas.html
Now we discover 7 out of 10 are from overseas so we are talking about 300.
Some are lumping in someone tweeting that was a crap penalty as racist.
Maybe we should patronise the players?
You did very well. it was a super penalty.
Now we could of course use some logic.
Let's go with the 300 as all being racist.
Multi choice question, is it likely that the racist knuckle draggers in question;
A) Have favourite black players and just sent abuse to the one black player who offends them most? Or
B) Sent an individual abusive tweet to each of the 3 players?
Which means we are talking about 100 racists.
If we have got to the stage where we have only 100 racists in England out of a population of 56 million I'd say we aren't doing bad.
But if you want to be ashamed of your country and think we have 17.4 racists then don't let evidence get in your way.
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Re: Euros 2021
OK if it is just a meaningless blink of the eye gesture and it is in no way meant to link or could possibly be linked with an extremist organisation then lets stop any confusion and come up with a new gesture.erol wrote: ↑Tue 13 Jul 2021 3:06 pm
In my view what makes this 'political' more than anything else is not the simple gesture itself but the reaction to it from some quarters. To me it's a simple, not in your face gesture, that you would literally miss if you blinked and that those who do it explicitly say is done in support of equality and anti racism and nothing more. You do not have to support it or do it yourself but you do have a choice to just ignore it. Or 'politicise it' by jumping up and down and making it a mountain when its not even a tenth of a mole hill and making out that it is something that it is not and that it is a thin end of a wedge that will and can only lead to the enslavement of all of us under some Marxist / fascist totalitarian government if we do not take a stand against it now.
How about this one from the very paragon of anti-racism, JC himself?
Its only a gesture after all, takes a second, lets not turn it into something it isn't.
In a totally unrelated subject, what's your views on Marxism?
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Re: Euros 2021
On a lighter note I can see a potential problem with the logistics of taking the knee in synchronised swimming.benjaminbutton wrote: ↑Tue 13 Jul 2021 2:48 pmI don't consider myself a racist in any way whatsoever, but I do not agree with teams "taking the knee". This I believe is a political move and the BLM organisation has become a very powerful worldwide organisation in itself. Nothing to do with football, baseball, F1, soccer, rugby or synchronised swimming, etc, etc..
Ideally it is carried out on the playing field so choose the wrong national anthem to kneel to, which was how it started, lets not forget, and I can see troubles ahead.
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Re: Euros 2021
Getting dangerously off topic.
For me the very notion that 'being racist' is a binary thing where any given individual either is or is not racist and you can then count up how many people are or are not racist in a given country and draw some conclusions about the state of a country from this is beyond absurd. To me it is the kind of logic and jumping through hoops than can only be arrived at if you start from a pre chosen position that 'the UK is not racist' and then just seek ways to support that pre chosen position, whilst ignoring everything else.
Either your statistical chances on a whole range of things are affected by your ethnic background in a country like the UK or they are not. That is all that matters to me. I want a society where your statistical chances in education, employment, how you might be treated by police or the courts or in the media or by store security guards or 100 other things is no different regardless of your ethnic background. Statistically no different. Whilst outcomes are statistically different based simply on ethnic background for me there is still work to be done working out how to change that. I'll listen to any and all arguments that are aimed at achieving that, arguments like positive discrimination does more harm than good and so on but I will not accept the narrative that 'its all good right now today and we should shut up about the whole thing because if we do not the Marxist will use it as a means to enslave us all to their evil doctrine.
I'll make no more comment in this thread. If I am provoke enough to comment ill split it out in to another thread.
For me the very notion that 'being racist' is a binary thing where any given individual either is or is not racist and you can then count up how many people are or are not racist in a given country and draw some conclusions about the state of a country from this is beyond absurd. To me it is the kind of logic and jumping through hoops than can only be arrived at if you start from a pre chosen position that 'the UK is not racist' and then just seek ways to support that pre chosen position, whilst ignoring everything else.
Either your statistical chances on a whole range of things are affected by your ethnic background in a country like the UK or they are not. That is all that matters to me. I want a society where your statistical chances in education, employment, how you might be treated by police or the courts or in the media or by store security guards or 100 other things is no different regardless of your ethnic background. Statistically no different. Whilst outcomes are statistically different based simply on ethnic background for me there is still work to be done working out how to change that. I'll listen to any and all arguments that are aimed at achieving that, arguments like positive discrimination does more harm than good and so on but I will not accept the narrative that 'its all good right now today and we should shut up about the whole thing because if we do not the Marxist will use it as a means to enslave us all to their evil doctrine.
I'll make no more comment in this thread. If I am provoke enough to comment ill split it out in to another thread.
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Re: Euros 2021
er from 1965EnjoyingTheSun wrote: ↑Tue 13 Jul 2021 3:24 pmIdeally it is carried out on the playing field so choose the wrong national anthem to kneel to, which was how it started, lets not forget,
indeed let us not forget , or re write history.
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Re: Euros 2021
Oh do me a favour.erol wrote: ↑Tue 13 Jul 2021 3:46 pmer from 1965EnjoyingTheSun wrote: ↑Tue 13 Jul 2021 3:24 pmIdeally it is carried out on the playing field so choose the wrong national anthem to kneel to, which was how it started, lets not forget,
mlk-knee.jpg
indeed let us not forget , or re write history.
What was MLKs job before he started in the civil rights movement?
What do people in that job do quite a bit during their normal day?
He’s praying as you well know.
The recent taking a knee has evolved from American football player Colin Kaepernick back in 2016 and BLM have adopted it. This isn’t even up for debate.
In a not totally unrelated question what are your views on Marxism? How much skin have you got in the game here?
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Re: Euros 2021
Not dangerously off topic imo.
At the end of the Euros it was alleged that England had unleashed a torrent of racism at 3 players. Someone here bought it up.
I have pointed out it now appears to be a tiny drop rather than a torrent.
Admittedly no drop would be ideal but haters gotta hate. Anyone who thinks you will remove all bigots from the world is living in cloud cuckoo land. It is a goal we should aim for but so is eliminating serial killers.
We have also covered the BLM movement on which opinions differ on as to their main purpose.
Well their second main purpose after building a healthy property portfolio of course.
I repeatedly ask what are your views on Marxism because to me it is very relevant to how you view BLM.
You won’t ever answer this will you?
Personally I am against Marxism and Fascism as they are both extremists and you end up with the same result but you just wear different outfits.
I would respect someone who said I believe in Marxism because I believe it is the best method to ensure equality. I would totally disagree but that is a different argument but I would at least respect the honesty.
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Re: Euros 2021
There is a reason why Kaepernick chose the gesture of 'taking the knee' rather than others he could have chosen. It would seem however it is 'up for debate' as to if it was in any way connected to MLK having done so in prayer during a mass protest in Selma in 1965.EnjoyingTheSun wrote: ↑Tue 13 Jul 2021 3:54 pmThe recent taking a knee has evolved from American football player Colin Kaepernick back in 2016 and BLM have adopted it.
FFS start a new thread.EnjoyingTheSun wrote: ↑Tue 13 Jul 2021 3:54 pmIn a not totally unrelated question what are your views on Marxism? How much skin have you got in the game here?
What are you asking me any way ? Am I now or have I ever been a member of the Communist Party? Is this what you are asking me ? Is that what you mean by skin in the game ? Is it possible for anyone to disagree with your views on racism, politics or anything else and for them to NOT be Marxist ?
Nor do I believe that someone who calls themselves today 'marxist' is the same as someone who today calls themselves a nazi. It is false equivalence to a massive degree in my book.
Now if you want my views on Marxism have the common decency to start a new thread and ask there.
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Re: Euros 2021
And here it is.erol wrote: ↑Tue 13 Jul 2021 4:20 pm
There is a reason why Kaepernick chose the gesture of 'taking the knee' rather than others he could have chosen. It would seem however it is 'up for debate' as to if it was in any way connected to MLK having done so in prayer during a mass protest in Selma in 1965.
https://www.skysports.com/nfl/news/1211 ... nate-boyer
I mean you can find various pictures of black men kneeling but it is a dig at the American nation in essence.
If it is anything to do with praying then let’s have the players on both knees hands together in prayer against racism.
I’ll be 100% with that.
Not sure the religion is the opium of the masses brigade will be keen though.
For you to ignore it in another thread?
I was born at night not last night.
Yes it’s possible for someone to disagree and not be a fan of Marxism to clear it up for me?
Love the other bit, really made me laugh.Erol facing McCarthy refusing to name names.
Always reminds me of them of “ we will continue the fight comrade” as if they are in the mountains of Cuba rather then sipping a £5 coffee in Hampstead.
Skin in the game as in is it in your interests to particularly protect BLM as opposed to Say No to Racism with a different gesture.
Wouldn’t be the first time Marxists have piggy backed a cause. I remember the Anti NF movement in the 70s being hijacked by the SWP.
Marxism has better branding than Nazi for sure but the result is always the same. No freedom, the bullying and oppression of the people and mass murder. Always.
So does that mean you support Marxists?
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Re: Euros 2021
As a side note to the current debate raging on whether Marxism can be compared to Nazism, I thought it appropriate to introduce into the thread some *fun Maths* ... maybe that's an oxymoron to some of you!
It was very unfortunate that the three lads to miss their penalties were all black
And I hear some of you saying "What are the odds, eh?" Well, here they are:
If we assume all five players in the shoot-out have a 75% chance of scoring, then;
Prob (three players (ie any 3 players) miss) is roughly 9%
Prob (that the three particular players miss) is less than 1%
By the way, if we assume all five players had a 70% chance of scoring, then;
Prob (three players (any 3 players) miss) is roughly 13%
Prob (that the three particular players miss) is just over 1%.
I assumed all five had an equal chance of scoring ... which would be roughly correct.
So yes, there was only about a 1% chance of all this happening ... but happen it did unfortunately.
In any case, as a Mathematician/Statistician, it interested me ... and maybe some of you as well.
Have a great day!
It was very unfortunate that the three lads to miss their penalties were all black
And I hear some of you saying "What are the odds, eh?" Well, here they are:
If we assume all five players in the shoot-out have a 75% chance of scoring, then;
Prob (three players (ie any 3 players) miss) is roughly 9%
Prob (that the three particular players miss) is less than 1%
By the way, if we assume all five players had a 70% chance of scoring, then;
Prob (three players (any 3 players) miss) is roughly 13%
Prob (that the three particular players miss) is just over 1%.
I assumed all five had an equal chance of scoring ... which would be roughly correct.
So yes, there was only about a 1% chance of all this happening ... but happen it did unfortunately.
In any case, as a Mathematician/Statistician, it interested me ... and maybe some of you as well.
Have a great day!
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Re: Euros 2021
I see the percentage defence of racism has been put forward yet again, well let's be clear nobody is saying there is anything like a majority of racists or that it is in fact is anything more than a very small minority... but here's the thing, to the target of racism one racial abuse per day is 100% a problem and telling them in so many words to suck it up because the majority are not racists. is frankly not a suitable response.
After all, to each abused person, they ARE the target... it's got naff-all to do with your politics and everything to do with a mean prejudiced spirit. It is not acceptable in any walk of life and trying to play it down shows a lack of understanding of just how toxic it is to the abused.
If your child is the victim of knife crime, you are not going to be impressed with Cressida Dick telling you that 99.9% of people do not commit the crime so we should be comfortable with it.... by the same token expecting some level of racial abuse to be tolerated is not acceptable. You can argue all you like about the size of the problem in relation to the population but you'd be wrong...
After all, to each abused person, they ARE the target... it's got naff-all to do with your politics and everything to do with a mean prejudiced spirit. It is not acceptable in any walk of life and trying to play it down shows a lack of understanding of just how toxic it is to the abused.
If your child is the victim of knife crime, you are not going to be impressed with Cressida Dick telling you that 99.9% of people do not commit the crime so we should be comfortable with it.... by the same token expecting some level of racial abuse to be tolerated is not acceptable. You can argue all you like about the size of the problem in relation to the population but you'd be wrong...
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Re: Euros 2021
OK Groucho I say that The Yorkshire Ripper killed 100,000 women. Am I correct?
I mean it’s not like you can say “well actually he was convicted of killing 13 and it is theorised it could be double that, but nowhere near 100,000.”
You can’t say that, because by your thought process you are defending a serial killer. It must mean you support the murder of women?
So is this where we get “but it’s her truth?”
Basically she is talking nonsense, I know it, you know it but you’d like what she is saying to be true because it fits in with your agenda. So it’s not THE truth, if we want to get technical and accurate it is a big whopping lie but it is HER truth?
I mean it’s creative, it’s clever and with enough behind you in a pile on any who question it, I guess it can work but sadly I think the world is getting wise to the tactics.
Racism is terrible, disgusting, horrendous we all agree on that, it’s a given. No word to condemn it is harsh enough. One racist is one racist too many.
I’m not defending racism the thing by saying it’s a small percentage.
I’m defending Britain which is labelled structurally racist, institutionally racist, rife with racism etc etc by pointing out that it is a tiny minority. It always was a tiny minority and it is now a lot lot tinier.
I’m defending football, a game I love, which after a lot of missteps in getting to a good place with the black community. It still has a long way to go and needs to address the lack of Asian players and players who don’t feel they can be openly gay but we have 3-4% of the population taking up 25-35% of the best places. And the black players did it. On their own.
The SJWs won’t mention that in their culture war because they know zero about football. They have jumped on the bandwagon and will pretend to like football to try and get down with the kids and “look, look I can do working class things too.”
They generally know zero about black people as well as they usually come from the whitest areas in Britain but they went out of their way to pal up with a middle class black kid at uni so now know all there is to know about the black experience in Britain.
I am attacking those who are using race and now football as part of their ongoing culture war. “I’m ashamed of my country.”etc etc. A country that sends tens of thousands of messages of support to players who frankly cocked up is judged because of a few lowlifes, who hate the world, sent them a few racist abusive messages.
Just leave people alone. They will work it out without you stirring it up and trying to cause division. That is why people boo anything they see as connected with BLM. They know it is not there so solve any problems it is there to exasperate them. .
Don’t even go there.
I’m amazed you have the audacity to use knife crime as an example.
The left have spent years minimising the problem and minimising that it is a big problem in the black community.
They will crush any initiative to try and stop the problem.
Like to speculate how many more times it is more likely a young black male will be murdered by a young black male wielding a knife than by a policeman?
Do you really care about knife crime?
Do you really care about black lives?
In the interest of fairness I'll give you the opportunity to twist like a pretzel and avoid the question.
What's your thoughts on Marxism
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Re: Euros 2021
I don't know what you are banging on about, who is 'she'. My only point is, and one you seem determined to avoid, racism is a cancer in society that feeds people with self-esteem issues with some form of purpose and feeling of superiority where none is warranted.
Drawing the parallel with knife crime is to illustrate how pointless and lacking merit and thought the percentage argument is. Unprovoked racist attacks in UK cities have a history of ending in knife crime... so it's pertinent not audacious.
The facts are plain to see, your agenda appears to be to downplay the existence of and toxic nature of racism. Why you would want to portray yourself in such manner is for you, I for one can't begin to understand your stance.
Drawing the parallel with knife crime is to illustrate how pointless and lacking merit and thought the percentage argument is. Unprovoked racist attacks in UK cities have a history of ending in knife crime... so it's pertinent not audacious.
The facts are plain to see, your agenda appears to be to downplay the existence of and toxic nature of racism. Why you would want to portray yourself in such manner is for you, I for one can't begin to understand your stance.
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Re: Euros 2021
She....he...it is an example as well you know.Groucho wrote: ↑Wed 14 Jul 2021 10:51 amI don't know what you are banging on about, who is 'she'. My only point is, and one you seem determined to avoid, racism is a cancer in society that feeds people with self-esteem issues with some form of purpose and feeling of superiority where none is warranted.
Drawing the parallel with knife crime is to illustrate how pointless and lacking merit and thought the percentage argument is. Unprovoked racist attacks in UK cities have a history of ending in knife crime... so it's pertinent not audacious.
The facts are plain to see, your agenda appears to be to downplay the existence of and toxic nature of racism. Why you would want to portray yourself in such manner is for you, I for one can't begin to understand your stance.
Where have I said racism is anything other than a poison?
Where have I ever said there are no racists in England?
Re knife crime, what is the biggest reason young black men are being murdered? The biggest reason that black lives don’t seem to matter? Is it;
A) they are being murdered by white extremists or white racists?
B) they are being murdered by the police?
C) they are being murdered by other young black men?
If it is C) is it by a small margin or overwhelmingly?
The sad thing is I CAN understand your stance.
Maybe you could help clarify your stance by answering 2 very simple questions?
Why do you want to portray England as a racist country when all evidence is that it isn’t?
What are your views on Marxism?
Re Marxism you will say it is irrelevant blah blah so let’s get it off the table immediately so I don’t need to ask again. All you need to say is you don’t have any truck with Marxism and it is a failed theory. Say that and I’ll never ask again.
There are a few very easy questions to answer there, but you won’t will you?
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Re: Euros 2021
Racism can never be justified.EnjoyingTheSun wrote: ↑Wed 14 Jul 2021 11:34 amShe....he...it is an example as well you know.Groucho wrote: ↑Wed 14 Jul 2021 10:51 amI don't know what you are banging on about, who is 'she'. My only point is, and one you seem determined to avoid, racism is a cancer in society that feeds people with self-esteem issues with some form of purpose and feeling of superiority where none is warranted.
Drawing the parallel with knife crime is to illustrate how pointless and lacking merit and thought the percentage argument is. Unprovoked racist attacks in UK cities have a history of ending in knife crime... so it's pertinent not audacious.
The facts are plain to see, your agenda appears to be to downplay the existence of and toxic nature of racism. Why you would want to portray yourself in such manner is for you, I for one can't begin to understand your stance.
Where have I said racism is anything other than a poison?
Where have I ever said there are no racists in England?
Re knife crime, what is the biggest reason young black men are being murdered? The biggest reason that black lives don’t seem to matter? Is it;
A) they are being murdered by white extremists or white racists?
B) they are being murdered by the police?
C) they are being murdered by other young black men?
If it is C) is it by a small margin or overwhelmingly?
The sad thing is I CAN understand your stance.
Maybe you could help clarify your stance by answering 2 very simple questions?
Why do you want to portray England as a racist country when all evidence is that it isn’t?
What are your views on Marxism?
Re Marxism you will say it is irrelevant blah blah so let’s get it off the table immediately so I don’t need to ask again. All you need to say is you don’t have any truck with Marxism and it is a failed theory. Say that and I’ll never ask again.
There are a few very easy questions to answer there, but you won’t will you?
Black people killing other black people is no justification for racism, and I really do not see the mutual relationship or connection between the two. So what are we saying here, inner city black gang crime justifies racism? How is inner city crime relevant to racist abuse???
In terms of politics, again what does Marxist, communist or capitalist ideology have to do with racism? Again is there a correlation between marxism and tolerance and capitalism and racism?
The UK as a nation is overwhelmingly far more tolerant of immigrants then the rest of Europe, however that is what it is, a tolerance towards...
An online petition has been started to have the the England game replayed, signed by 150,000 people or there abouts due to the foul on Saka by Chiellini. The sad thing about the petition, it has a picture of Saka being pulled back Chiellini with the caption being dragged by like he was a slave.
Not a single person who has signed the petition for the game to be replayed has objected to the terminology used. That would be unacceptable were the UK racism free.
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Re: Euros 2021
Has anybody actually seen the racist tweets? I haven’t so don’t know whether they are, or whether they are just critical of bad penalty takers.