Which would you Choose ??

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DenBoy
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Which would you Choose ??

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Post by DenBoy »

Still ticking boxes and help with another if you could.

Supplementary heating - which is preferable from an output/cost effective point of view:

i. Electric Heaters
ii. Oil Storage Heaters
iii. Calor Gas Heaters
iv. Your Suggestion

Answers on a postcard please - thanks in advance.

Dennis
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mikelapta
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Re: Which would you Choose ??

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Post by mikelapta »

Wood burnıng stove for kıtchen.sımılar lıvıng room

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Re: Which would you Choose ??

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Post by DenBoy »

Mikelapta

Thanks very much for that, we intend to rent for a year or two, so if wood burners are already there then great but thought I would try to cover other bases.

Appreciated.
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Keithcaley
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Re: Which would you Choose ??

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Post by Keithcaley »

If you're intending to move, only spend cash on something that you can either take with you, or sell on.

If choosing electricity as the energy source, then aircon is the cheapest to run as you only pay the cost of 'moving the heat around' - i.e. you use the equipment as a 'heat pump', rather than as an 'energy source'.

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Re: Which would you Choose ??

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Post by MoonageDaydream »

Well we use bottled gas in the living room this time a year. Loads of heaters available in stores like Onder and Plus d.i.y. and we find a cylinder last just over a week (only 37 TL to refill too ie. well under a tenner in sterling). In the bedrooms we find ceramic heaters are better than fan heaters, we just put them on for a few minutes before bedtime..

(If you're renting its probably best to get something you can move to another rental or purchased property and both of these fit the bill).

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Re: Which would you Choose ??

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Post by blueparrot »

What about oil-filled rads, particularly the ones with timers?

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Post by Keithcaley »

All 'normal' electric heaters will give you the same amount of heat for your money - I.e. 1KW of heat output for every KWH of electricity used. If you have air cons, it is far cheaper to use these for heating, because they act as 'heat pumps' and 'steal' heat from outside, no matter how cold it is outside! You can get 3KW of heat or more for every KWH of electricity because you are only paying to run a pump (compressor). So if you have air cons, it's a no brainer!

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Post by blueparrot »

Thanks, Keith.

My rental house does have air con units, but I am told they are not inverters. I understand that they do provide some heat but, because they are not inverters, it is not very much.

I am a small woman with a high surface area to mass ratio, which equals high heat loss, unfortunately! I do get cold.

As people were saying on another thread, I won't be able to lug gas canister upstairs, and may even find it difficult to manipulate them into place on the ground floor. Not fair to rely on friends to help me with this all the time.

Hence, my search for alternatives. Probably oil-filled rads, plus a blow/halogen heater for instant heat. Thanks.

Bert
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Re: Which would you Choose ??

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Post by Bert »

Being over a QLima kerosine heater (top model) which requires and electrical supply but is very efficient and gives off no odour and unlike gas that gives off huge amounts of water and therefore risks not only condensation but damp and mould, parafin/ kerosine using this machine doesn't . Check them out. They sell the older models here and although very good are not as aesthetically pleasing to the eye. The only reason I suggest these is their portability and efficiency, and supplement the log burner when you can't be bothered to light it for just a couple of hours.

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Post by Keithcaley »

blueparrot wrote:Thanks, Keith.

My rental house does have air con units, but I am told they are not inverters. I understand that they do provide some heat but, because they are not inverters, it is not very much.

I am a small woman with a high surface area to mass ratio, which equals high heat loss, unfortunately! I do get cold.

As people were saying on another thread, I won't be able to lug gas canister upstairs, and may even find it difficult to manipulate them into place on the ground floor. Not fair to rely on friends to help me with this all the time.

Hence, my search for alternatives. Probably oil-filled rads, plus a blow/halogen heater for instant heat. Thanks.
Inverter type aircons don't give out any more heat than standard types, but they are a little more efficient.

If you don't get a lot of heat from your aircons, then they are probably faulty or need to be re-gassed.

If you are looking at electrical heating devices, then aircons remain far and away the most economical to run (provided they are working OK )

If you need any help or advice on the subject, I would suggest that you contact forum member TRNCVaughan by 'phone: 0533 845 8494 or PM / email him here

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Re: Which would you Choose ??

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Post by blueparrot »

Thanks, Keith. I will call TRNCVaughn if I run into problems with the air con units.

Bert, I think you mean these units? http://www.qlima.com/assortment/heating ... in-heaters

Thanks for the idea. Will call the company re the best model for me. I would really like to avoid gas if I can. I assume you can get the fuel refills for these units in NC?

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Re: Which would you Choose ??

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Post by Bert »

Yes they are the ones and yes fuel no worries

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Post by kibsolar1999 »

Every year the same discussion. How can I heat my (cheap and non insulated build ) home as cheap and comfortable as possible: the answer is difficult… and certainly “not cheap any more”.
“Ac units” are air source heat pumps, called ASHP.
They are not magic, they use the “energy stored in mass”, here: air. With that , they can produce more heating as energy (here:electricity) is needed.
This ratio is called coefficient of performance (COP).
An electric heater (or radiator heater) has an COP of 1. = 1 kW in (from grid), 1kW (heating capacity) out.
The “real COP” is much lower, as the electricity for these devices is produced in a power station which works on an efficiency of 33%. So, the total, real COP is minus 3.
3 kW in and 1kW out.
For gas or kerosene heaters you have a COP of 1, because you burn your energy directly in your house. But, gas heaters take a lot of oxygen out of the room and emit a lot of water, CO2 and CO. Kerosene heaters also produce CO, nitric oxide and nitric dioxide.
“catalytic” gas or kerosene heaters should have lower emissions, but who believes in a 160 TL gas heater? a premium model kerosene heater may cost a 1000 or 2000 TL and even for them “higher emission levels” are recorded.
All not nice and you need permanent ventilation… a proof by contradiction.
Price: In a gas bottle are 10 kg, cost 37 lira = 37 kurus per kWh. Kerosene somewhat the same.
Keith suggested for air con units a COP of 3, which I find (as an average) quite optimistic, especially for the cheaper ones. You can check this by reading the brochure or nameplate: eg, for a 9000btu unit, you may find 4 A (x 240 volts) = 960W consumption and heating capacity of 2300W. COP is 2,4.
Usually these values are given under perfect conditions, eg, outside ambient temp is 18 degrees, inside temp target 22 degrees. Meaning: small temperature differences.
Low (for heating) and high (for cooling) ambient temps (+ target temp inside = bigger temp difference) lower the COP. I did ask several shops whether they please could supply me with the COP ratings for different temperatures and temp differences. They can not.
Usually the price makes a difference, as big condenser and evaporator units will keep up the COP even in more difficult situations. (outside cold or very hot). Say, compare prices of Arcelik and Mitsubishi…
For many cheaper units it even says in the manual that in temps below 9 degrees, the unit may stop to work! Same applies for hot days above 40 degrees.
Price: a kWh from kibtek does cost approx 50 kurus, with an COP of 2 it falls to 25 kurus, with a COP of 3 to 17 kurus per kWh.
Inverter driven air cons:
A normal aircon knows only on (100%) or off (0%), set by a temp sensor, the target temp you control via your remote.
An inverter driven ac also can work on eg, 10-90% of its ratings, meaning, it works all the time and takes a permanent but lower draw, just to push in what is needed.
That is much better for the evaporating – condenser unit and COPs of 3 or higher are possible and you can save money.
But be careful: when you start your aircon, both use the same for say, 20 minutes, to work to target temp. Aircons chosen too small for your room ( eg, a 18000 btu unit would be needed, but because of the price you choose a 12000btu) both units must work full power all the time and then an inverter driven aircon makes no sense.

kibsolar1999

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