Slow Internet?

kbasat · Post by **kbasat** » Wed 04 Oct 2017 9:46 pm

https://www.facebook.com/kktcissbirligi ... =3&theater

Mimi2 · Post by **Mimi2** » Thu 05 Oct 2017 5:22 am

Just another normal day then!!

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Thu 05 Oct 2017 10:27 am

Thank you.

mermaidsexist · Post by **mermaidsexist** » Thu 05 Oct 2017 11:18 am

thanks you for keeping us informed

teatime · Post by **teatime** » Thu 05 Oct 2017 12:33 pm

Thanks for the info, but unfortunately without internet some of us can't see this message until we get internet back.

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Thu 05 Oct 2017 1:25 pm

Yes thank you for letting us know. I had been worrying about what was happening yesterday at least I now know. Is there any way we can get over to these people that the Internet is not just a toy or for watching TV. I was in the middle of a financial transaction when it cut out.

elizabeth · Post by **elizabeth** » Thu 05 Oct 2017 1:54 pm

I don't think anyone mentioned watching tv or even anything along those lines. You may be surprised to learn that many of "these people" also use the internet for banking and studying. What a very patronising attitude you have towards other people

kayc · Post by **kayc** » Thu 05 Oct 2017 2:33 pm

Informative. Thanks for posting this, I thought it was just my connection, or someone was budging into my wifi.

Panchocat · Post by **Panchocat** » Thu 05 Oct 2017 5:01 pm

Elizabeth, I don't think RR was being patronising I read "these people" as referring to Turkish Telecom.
Enough nastiness in the world let's try to be nice to each other please.

Kanonier · Post by **Kanonier** » Thu 05 Oct 2017 6:19 pm

Panchocat wrote:Elizabeth, I don't think RR was being patronising I read "these people" as referring to Turkish Telecom.
Enough nastiness in the world let's try to be nice to each other please.

Hear, hear!

Keithcaley · Post by **Keithcaley** » Thu 05 Oct 2017 7:08 pm

Well, that was a real lesson in 'perception', as far as I'm concerned!

Just as Elizabeth did, I also interpreted RR's post - incorrectly - as referring to local users, rather than to TTNET.

I could make the excuse that RR used a 'third person description' - 'these people' - rather than naming them in an unambiguous manner - but my own prejudices then took over, and led me to think the worst

My apologies, RR !

elizabeth · Post by **elizabeth** » Thu 05 Oct 2017 7:18 pm

Keithcaley wrote:Well, that was a real lesson in 'perception', as far as I'm concerned!

Just as Elizabeth did, I also interpreted RR's post - incorrectly - as referring to local users, rather than to TTNET.

I could make the excuse that RR used a 'third person description' - 'these people' - rather than naming them in an unambiguous manner - but my own prejudices then took over, and led me to think the worst

My apologies, RR !

Mine too, like Keith I misinterpreted the post.

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Thu 05 Oct 2017 7:24 pm

Thank you Panchocat nd Kanonier

I was indeed referring to Turkish Telecom and others who are involved in enabling our use of the Internet. However, I do think it important that iti is made clear that loss of contact could, indeed, result in financial loss and also is some cases distressing compassionate situations (some need it to keep in touch with ill or infirm) relatives etc. Not , as I regret to say might be inferred from some posts, just the loss of an episode of a favourite serial or the moment a goal is scored distressing though that may be to some.

I would really like to see some up to date legal advice on this subject. Although it is a while since my involvement in the Law of Contract I dont think it has changed much, nor the principle of the law of the TRNC being based on the British format. That refers to privity of Contract and means that a complaint or claim for failure to supply a product "fit for its purpose" is the responsibility of the entity with which one has a contract and whom one is paying for the service. NOT as is frequently implied here a third party who supplies the contractor!

Take an example: You enter into a contract with a builder to build you a house. The Contract stipulates and the cost is based on supplying good quality insulating bricks and the price includes for them. If the Contractor supplies a poorer quality of brick (or not enough of them and you cannot keep the house warm, or have to pay more in fuel as a result) he cannot get out of his responsibilities under his Contract with you by saying his supplier let him down He is responsible for any loss or damage to you: he can of course claim these in turn from the subcontractor but your only resposibility is to provide him if necessary with evidence to support his claim.

Multimax's representatives and other ISPs have frequently excused themselves, and indeed appear to consider themselves the victims , because of the failures of TT.

I would need to study the Contract in detail and even then lack sufficient technical knowledge to say for certain if the service provided would be deemed "fit for its purpose".

However I do have a strong feeling that someone to put it crudely is "Taking the p***) here, and the reasoning behind my first post was that it might be in the interests of the expat community as represented here to make it very clear that their use of the internet is not just frivolous and for entertainment but loss of service could have serious consequences, including financial

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Thu 05 Oct 2017 7:36 pm

Thanks for your apologies Keith and Elizabeth; I apologise in turn for not making my post clearer. I do have a habit of being long winded, but when I try to be brief I seem to lose the point. I hope it is now clear.

However: "Honi soit qui mal i pense"

Keithcaley · Post by **Keithcaley** » Thu 05 Oct 2017 7:36 pm

RR, I do take the thrust of your argument seriously, but I feel that TRNC ISP's might reasonably be expected to plead 'Force Majeure' ...

erol · Post by **erol** » Thu 05 Oct 2017 8:20 pm

Ragged Robin wrote:Thank you Panchocat nd Kanonier

I was indeed referring to Turkish Telecom and others who are involved in enabling our use of the Internet. However, I do think it important that iti is made clear that loss of contact could, indeed, result in financial loss and also is some cases distressing compassionate situations (some need it to keep in touch with ill or infirm) relatives etc. Not , as I regret to say might be inferred from some posts, just the loss of an episode of a favourite serial or the moment a goal is scored distressing though that may be to some.

I would really like to see some up to date legal advice on this subject. Although it is a while since my involvement in the Law of Contract I dont think it has changed much, nor the principle of the law of the TRNC being based on the British format. That refers to privity of Contract and means that a complaint or claim for failure to supply a product "fit for its purpose" is the responsibility of the entity with which one has a contract and whom one is paying for the service. NOT as is frequently implied here a third party who supplies the contractor!

Take an example: You enter into a contract with a builder to build you a house. The Contract stipulates and the cost is based on supplying good quality insulating bricks and the price includes for them. If the Contractor supplies a poorer quality of brick (or not enough of them and you cannot keep the house warm, or have to pay more in fuel as a result) he cannot get out of his responsibilities under his Contract with you by saying his supplier let him down He is responsible for any loss or damage to you: he can of course claim these in turn from the subcontractor but your only resposibility is to provide him if necessary with evidence to support his claim.

Multimax's representatives and other ISPs have frequently excused themselves, and indeed appear to consider themselves the victims , because of the failures of TT.

I would need to study the Contract in detail and even then lack sufficient technical knowledge to say for certain if the service provided would be deemed "fit for its purpose".

However I do have a strong feeling that someone to put it crudely is "Taking the p***) here, and the reasoning behind my first post was that it might be in the interests of the expat community as represented here to make it very clear that their use of the internet is not just frivolous and for entertainment but loss of service could have serious consequences, including financial

How about our 'contracts' with the (sole, state owned) electricity company here ? Do they understand that use of electricity is not just frivolous and for entertainment and that loss of service could have serious consequences, including financial ? Or the landline telephony service ? Or Water provision ? It does feel like you are judging ISPs to a 'higher standard' than other utilities, that some would consider even more important than internet provision but maybe I have misunderstood you ?

If you want to have a look at an ISP 'contract' from the UK, that has none of the unique disadvantages that we have here either as customers or companies providing service, have a look here and see if you think they understand how important internet usage is to people.

https://www.productsandservices.bt.com/ ... dband.html

As someone who campaigned on internet issues for many years in the UK before coming to live in the TRNC, we were more focused on getting internet service provision included in the USO (universal service obligation for dominant providers) as land line telephony is in the UK, then we were on compensation for loss of service let alone compensation for consequential loss as a result of loss of service. Something still not achieved yet in the UK some 20 years after we were campaigning for it.

Briannu · Post by **Briannu** » Fri 06 Oct 2017 8:59 am

Rang MM recently re no internet and a young guy told me I would have to be patient. I think that about sums up their attitude.

tomsteel · Post by **tomsteel** » Fri 06 Oct 2017 9:49 am

Briannu, interesting you can judge age via a telephone call. However, I have never had problems with MM over seven + years dealing with the Company. You may wish to seek an alternative provider if you are dissatisfied with your current service. Just a thought.

erol · Post by **erol** » Fri 06 Oct 2017 9:54 am

Briannu wrote:Rang MM recently re no internet and a young guy told me I would have to be patient. I think that about sums up their attitude.

So given that you have chosen to bring this here to this public forum do I have your permission to make this telephone call public so people can hear for themselves this MM 'attitude' that you talk about and put the 'other side' here ? There is I think some general useful lessons that might benefit all parties should you give permission for me to do so.

The Banshee · Post by **The Banshee** » Fri 06 Oct 2017 10:33 am

So everyone should treat the subject fairly Erol you should make it clear your past, and perhaps current involvement with MM ?? Currently MM's delivery is where I live 'pitiful' !! MM should withdraw it's advertising as they are just not able to supply regularly what they suggest they are able to !! I'm not suggesting that 'Turkey' is not the problem but the customer has no interest in that !!

Briannu · Post by **Briannu** » Fri 06 Oct 2017 10:38 am

Absolutely Erol I look forward to it. Oh and while your on could you publish the telephone call the previous week when MM refused to talk my elderly neighbour though how to install her VPN I was told on her behalf to call in the office which she struggled to do due to location and age.

Kanonier · Post by **Kanonier** » Fri 06 Oct 2017 11:31 am

Briannu wrote:Rang MM recently re no internet and a young guy told me I would have to be patient. I think that about sums up their attitude.

I also rang MM, Thursday afternoon, spoke to a young chap, who asked me to repeat my name a couple of times, possibly due to my "Jockenese", said "Give me 10 minutes" and I have been online since! Excellent service.

erol · Post by **erol** » Fri 06 Oct 2017 11:43 am

Briannu wrote:Absolutely Erol I look forward to it.

The call was made on 04th Oct at 16:11 and can be heard here

http://visionmatters.co.uk/cyprus/Bri-call.wav

The state of the ttnet link to Turkey at this time can be seen here (this graph has been 'smoothed' its how the monitoring software works, the drop shortly after 15.30 would have been a 'cliff face' drop as well as the recovery around 16:15)

So at the time you called there was a know massive drop on the performance of our link out to Turkey provided by ttnet, that was affecting all customers (and almost certainly customers of other ISPs as well). In these circumstances there really is little more honest information we can give customers than we do not know when the problem will be rectified and it is a matter of waiting.

You also state more than once that you had 'no internet' for two days prior to this call yet your usage stats show that on the 02nd Oct you downloaded a total of 9.2 GB of data , of which 7.4 was in 'off peak' hours and the remainder in peak hours. On the 03rd Oct you downloaded a total of 9,2GB of which 8.2 was in off peak hours. On the 04th , the day you rang us, you downloaded 11.2GB of data of which 6.7 GB was in off peak hours.

This then is the general point I think may be of use to all parties. The problem with these periodic drops on the ttnet link, other than the actual time the link is under performing, is how they impact our ability to find and rectify other issues that are down to us and our network. Diagnostically being told 'we had no internet' for two days is massively different than being told 'the internet periodically was performing badly to the extent that at times I could not even open a website'. This then is the point I am trying to get across - the more accurate and detailed and precise the information we are given relating to problems the more quickly and efficiently we can identify and rectify any problems that are within our power to rectify. Fuzzy descriptions only slow down and impede our ability to do so and ultimately lead to wasted time. This is even more true whilst all of north Cyprus is suffering from these periodic problems with the ttnet link that we have no direct control over.

MM is absolutely committed to doing everything in its power to ensure that those parts of the 'network' that it owns, controls and is responsible for is working as it should. If a customers level of service is under par because of us and something that we can and do control we will and do make every effort to establish that as quickly as possible and then rectify the problem. However there are issues that are not with the network that we own, control and are responsible for that we either only have limited indirect influence over or no control and influence at all, that is the nature of the internet. These ttnet issues are in that category.

Briannu wrote:Oh and while your on could you publish the telephone call the previous week when MM refused to talk my elderly neighbour though how to install her VPN I was told on her behalf to call in the office which she struggled to do due to location and age.

In oder to find this call I would have to know the customers name and the phone number she called from. To publish it here I would have to have their explicit permission to do so. However in general terms the simple truth is talking someone with limited experience of computers through how to set up our free VPN on a device is a futile exercise. It would be a waste of that persons time and our time. The free VPN has always been offered to our customers as a 'courtesy' and not as a core part of the service they buy from us. We have online guides as to how to configure it on a range of different devices and we also offer to configure such devices for customers, at no charge, if they bring them to our office during office hours. I do understand that for some customers this second option may be difficult but really is it the 'social responsibility' of MM to help such customers above and beyond what is normal or is it a wider 'social responsibility' of all of us a citizens to help such people ? Should MM in such a case have sent an engineer out to this customer to configure the VPN for her, passing the costs for this in effect on to all other customers, rather than have a friend or neighbour help them by either configuring the VPN for them using our online guide or taking their device in to our office on their behalf so we could set the VPN up?

tomsteel · Post by **tomsteel** » Fri 06 Oct 2017 11:47 am

The Banshee, find another ISP then you'll be free of MM's 'pitiful' service and other posters will be free of similar complaints.

The Banshee · Post by **The Banshee** » Fri 06 Oct 2017 12:03 pm

Tomsteel, did I offend you? My comment was a genuine remark on the ISP problem here in the TRNC. So why do you have to be so rude and objectionable????
Soner, these sort of comments remind me of cyprus44 and it’s time to stop these Trolls coming up with this sort of unpleasantness. What I said was very valid. The service from MM is variable to say the least and it’s not acceptable that we get this “Oh but this is cyprus” or nothing will ever change here.

tomsteel · Post by **tomsteel** » Fri 06 Oct 2017 12:13 pm

I was not being offensive. Your interpretation of my 'rudeness and objectionable' is unwarranted and in my opinion, unfair. I merely stated the obvious solution to your circumstance. Soner knows me personally and is very aware I am not an objectionable poster, even if you consider my common sense suggestion to be so. Incidentally, your inference I am a 'Troll' certainly is offensive, so maybe Soner will take action against you.

You should have taken note from other posts that MM and other TRNC ISPs are trying to resolve the indifferent service they get from Turkey, the only link possible.

erol · Post by **erol** » Fri 06 Oct 2017 12:31 pm

The Banshee wrote:So everyone should treat the subject fairly Erol you should make it clear your past, and perhaps current involvement with MM ?? Currently MM's delivery is where I live 'pitiful' !! MM should withdraw it's advertising as they are just not able to supply regularly what they suggest they are able to !! I'm not suggesting that 'Turkey' is not the problem but the customer has no interest in that !!

Yes you are right I should make clear that I do work (part time) for MM and am posting as such. That I did not do so was in no way an attempt to mislead anyone so thank you for prompting me to make that explicitly clear.

I have always tried to be clear that what ISPs provide, all they can provide, is transit of data from a customers house to an 'on ramp' to the internet. What happens past that point just is not under the control of the ISP. I would be more than happy if this reality was widely understood and if you have any constructive suggestions as to how MM and or ISP generally can make this clear in their marketing material I would be more than keen to hear them. This reality is true of all ISPs world wide.

From you description of 'MM's delivery in your area being pitiful' I have no way of knowing if that is the result of the island wide issues affecting everyone in the TRNC or because of some additional problem that is under MMs control. If you would pm me details of your MM account I will do everything in my power to establish iof there is some problem other than just the ttnet issues and if there is get that rectified as quickly as possible. The only MM account I can find that matches the surname you used when registering on kibkom is of one of our base station customers so I doubt that is your MM account.

For general interest there is an article in Turkish about the general issues with the links out to Turkey here https://www.gundemkibris.com/kibris/yet ... 25761.html

Keithcaley · Post by **Keithcaley** » Fri 06 Oct 2017 12:38 pm

The Banshee wrote:So everyone should treat the subject fairly Erol you should make it clear your past, and perhaps current involvement with MM ?? Currently MM's delivery is where I live 'pitiful' !! MM should withdraw it's advertising as they are just not able to supply regularly what they suggest they are able to !! I'm not suggesting that 'Turkey' is not the problem but the customer has no interest in that !!

I thought that everyone on the Forum was, by now, aware that Erol works for Multimax!

Anyway, if the Internet connection is consistently 'pitiful' at your premises, and not just subject to the occasional (periodic!) dips in speed that Erol has explained - with graphs to illustrate the point - then you really should report it to Multimax. They will be able to look at the level of service that you have been receiving, and determine what is causing the issue.

Of course, if you are having problems watching TV via the Internet, rather than experiencing slow speeds, as evidenced by conducting speed tests, it may be that the fault lies elsewhere, perhaps even with your own equipment - not that I'm saying it is, but it certainly needs to be investigated by people who know what they're doing, to find the cause of your issue, and correct it.

You should be able, consistently, to achieve a minimum speed of 4Mbps to the Multimax server in Kyrenia, regardless of the state of the TTNET link to Turkey. If this is not the case, then ring Multimax, explain the problem as clearly and concisely as you can, and tell them to fix it

Please let us know how you get on!

p.s. I've just seen erol's post, but I'll let my post stand as it is nontheless...

Incidentally, did you see the piece in Cyprus Today, that was published in August?

It's in 'proper' English, rather than the Google Translate job that you'll get from looking at Erol's link, so I'll post it here: -

Niyazi Öztoprak, of the TRNC’s Telecommunications Department, which is responsible for managing the country’s broadband network, said: “This issue [loss of signal] is not [usually] a recurring problem and is normally resolved within 30 to 40 minutes, but recently it has been happening more frequently by chance.
“Whenever such problems occur, TTNet immediately act on the issue. While working on the lines through Adana and Antalya, they transfer our connection to other lines they have within Turkey. This can also cause some disruption in signal quality.
“However, we are not always made aware of the problems, which is why we can’t provide an answer.”
Reports last October claimed that TTNet had refused to increase the undersea cables’ capacities because of debts owed by the Telecommunications Department.
Mr Tansu said broadband customers should complain to TTNet by sending emails to the following addresses: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] or [email protected]. Correspondents are urged to copy their complaints to all of the addresses, and messages may be written in English.

The Banshee · Post by **The Banshee** » Fri 06 Oct 2017 12:46 pm

Thank you Errol and Keith.

scaffman · Post by **scaffman** » Fri 06 Oct 2017 3:18 pm

I HAVE JUST READ ALL THROUGH THE POSTS RE THE INTERNET WITH MM.HOWEVER I DID ASK QUESTIONS IN THE CYPRUS TODAY LAST SATURDAY. I AM WITH MULTIMAX AND HAVE HAD PROBLEMS WITH SPEEDS FOREVER.WHILST THEY HAVE TRIED TO SORT OUT THE PROBLEM I STILL AM NOT GETTING A MINIMUM 4MBPS AS SUGGESTED.THERE ARE SPECIFIC TIMES OF THE EVENING WHEN WE LOOSE CONNECTION AND BUFFERING.I HAVE SPOKEN ON LINE WITH SOME VERY HELPFUL ADVISERS WHO DID THEIR BEST TO SORT OUT THE PROBLEM BUT NOT RECTIFY IT .HONESTLY THINK AND I AM NO EXPERT THAT THE SYSTEM BECOMES OVERLOADED .SPEAKING TO MANY PEOPLE OVER THE MONTHS THEY HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM.WHILST MM SAY ITS OUT OF THEIR CONTROL AT TIMES THEY ARE OUR CONTRACTED PROVIDER FOR A HIGH COST OF THE SUPPLY OF INTERNET AND THEIR DUTY TO PROVIDE GOODS FIT FOR PURPOSE.IF TTNET WIL NOT SUPPLY THE SERVICE THEY ARE PAYING FOR THEN ITS A DECISION MM HAVE TO TAKE.THE TRUTH IS FOR MM IT WONT BE LONG BEFORE CUSTOMERS WILL LEAVE MM.I WOULD SUGGEST THAT IF THE MINISTER FOR COMMUNICATIONS IS HERE IN T.R.N.C THAT MM LOBBY THE SAID MINISTER TO ACT ON THEIR BEHALF.IN TODAYS TECHNOLOGY SURLY THERE IS SOME WAY OF GETTING A GOOD INTERNET SERVICE HERE IN THE T.R.N.C. ITS 2017 NOT 1817.

tomsteel · Post by **tomsteel** » Fri 06 Oct 2017 3:28 pm

scaffman, have you tried another ISP to see if its provision is better? I ask this in the politest term as another poster took serious umbrage when I suggested he/she tried a different provider because of MMs supposed 'pitiful' service.

erol · Post by **erol** » Fri 06 Oct 2017 3:32 pm

scaffman wrote:I HAVE JUST READ ALL THROUGH THE POSTS RE THE INTERNET WITH MM.HOWEVER I DID ASK QUESTIONS IN THE CYPRUS TODAY LAST SATURDAY. I AM WITH MULTIMAX AND HAVE HAD PROBLEMS WITH SPEEDS FOREVER.WHILST THEY HAVE TRIED TO SORT OUT THE PROBLEM I STILL AM NOT GETTING A MINIMUM 4MBPS AS SUGGESTED.THERE ARE SPECIFIC TIMES OF THE EVENING WHEN WE LOOSE CONNECTION AND BUFFERING.I HAVE SPOKEN ON LINE WITH SOME VERY HELPFUL ADVISERS WHO DID THEIR BEST TO SORT OUT THE PROBLEM BUT NOT RECTIFY IT .HONESTLY THINK AND I AM NO EXPERT THAT THE SYSTEM BECOMES OVERLOADED .SPEAKING TO MANY PEOPLE OVER THE MONTHS THEY HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM.WHILST MM SAY ITS OUT OF THEIR CONTROL AT TIMES THEY ARE OUR CONTRACTED PROVIDER FOR A HIGH COST OF THE SUPPLY OF INTERNET AND THEIR DUTY TO PROVIDE GOODS FIT FOR PURPOSE.IF TTNET WIL NOT SUPPLY THE SERVICE THEY ARE PAYING FOR THEN ITS A DECISION MM HAVE TO TAKE.THE TRUTH IS FOR MM IT WONT BE LONG BEFORE CUSTOMERS WILL LEAVE MM.I WOULD SUGGEST THAT IF THE MINISTER FOR COMMUNICATIONS IS HERE IN T.R.N.C THAT MM LOBBY THE SAID MINISTER TO ACT ON THEIR BEHALF.IN TODAYS TECHNOLOGY SURLY THERE IS SOME WAY OF GETTING A GOOD INTERNET SERVICE HERE IN THE T.R.N.C. ITS 2017 NOT 1817.

If your problems are due to some MM specific issue that we have failed to identify and rectify then changing provider may well result in a better experience from your end. If however they are the result of the general ttnet issues then changing provider is to the best of my knowledge unlikely to result any improved experience at your end. For what it is worth I have just conducted a quick speedtest from the device on your roof to the point in lefkoshia just before we pass traffic out to Turkey via ttnet and I am seeing download speeds of around 22Mbs. If you do a speedtest (correctly) using the Multimax server on speedtest.net you should see results in this ball park. If you are not then please do contact me so we can get to the bottom of this. This is how things are now but of course it may be different at different times, so again I would ask that you contact me personally as close to the time you are seeing speeds of less than 4Mbs (when correctly testing to MM server). If you pm me I will give you a mobile number you can contact me on directly. I can not guarantee that I will be available to investigate 24/7 but I will do so at any time you contact me and I am awake and in front of a computer and able to do so.

kerry 6138 · Post by **kerry 6138** » Fri 06 Oct 2017 3:49 pm

I can tell you has a none MM customer the grass isnt any greener over here at least MM contact you and open themselves up has spokespersons for ISPs
So if you want to know you are not getting what you payed for stay with MM, if you except problems are part of living here, choose a isp that gives you the cheapest option for what you need the internet for and doesnt gold plate everything.

tomsteel · Post by **tomsteel** » Fri 06 Oct 2017 4:40 pm

kerry 6138 wrote:I can tell you has a none MM customer the grass isnt any greener over here at least MM contact you and open themselves up has spokespersons for ISPs
So if you want to know you are not getting what you payed for stay with MM, if you except problems are part of living here, choose a isp that gives you the cheapest option for what you need the internet for and doesnt gold plate everything.

Well put kerry6138. I am a MM customer and unreservedly recommended the service I have received over 7+ years and we live 40 kms east of Girne.

PoshinDevon · Post by **PoshinDevon** » Fri 06 Oct 2017 5:07 pm

I also am a MM customer and have to say I find the service to be extremely good.

I was a telecoms engineer in a previous life so do understand the issues they face and also the difficulties in trying to communicate this to the customer and more importantly getting an irate customer to understand and accept the explanation. I have experience of this myself.

In my opinion only, there are a few people who think they know what is wrong or may have some limited knowledge of internet service and as a result can get confused or even convinced its there ISP that is always at fault.

A little knowledge is often a dangerous thing.

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Fri 06 Oct 2017 6:58 pm

Keithcaley wrote:RR, I do take the thrust of your argument seriously, but I feel that TRNC ISP's might reasonably be expected to plead 'Force Majeure' ...

Well done, Keith , I wondered who would spot that! The thing is that M Mand other ISPs (why the apostrophe?) could argue that TT have a monopoly and therefore they cannot appoint an alternative supplier. However, my "Contractor" analogy still applies : the Contractor should have pointed out when quoting his price that the required product might not be available, and of course if an alternative was agreed, adjusted his price accordingly!

In an earlier thread on this topic, Erol said quite rightly that the problem was expectation and implied that customers had unreasonable expectations. What unfortunately MM seem unable to accept (and this also arose in an earlier post) is that is is their advertisements that are causing those raised expectations. I know they are far from the worst (after watching ITV I am shocked at what some people get away with) but in my humble opinion it would have been better all round it they had been more straightforward and made it clear in their adverts and put a warning in large prints on their contracts that whilst they would use their best endeavours circumstances beyond their control might result in low speeds or a cut in the service .

I type the above from memory without a copy of the contract or ad. in front of me. I would be interested if anyone can post a copy proving my memory is faulty.

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Fri 06 Oct 2017 7:06 pm

Another thing that is rather offputting (to me at least) about MMs response to problems, is that they keep saying that the provision of UK TElevsion is free. I very much doubt that - do they really take the cost of providing it out of salaries or profits? I think not. What they have done is rather clever, everyone is contributing to their research costs, whether they want the TV service or not, but they are reservingthe right to drop it without explanation, penalty or compensation without notice. I wonder if it should (and I hope not) prove necessary to close it, they will reduce the cost for the rest of their service to reflect their saving!

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Fri 06 Oct 2017 7:20 pm

I repeat that customers of MM and other ISPs have no privity of contract with TT. Their first call of complaint or compensation must be with the service provider with whom they have a contract. It is for the ISPs to take up the issue with TT. Of course they can (with the customer's consent, which I for one would be glad to give) quote their customers' dissatisfaction.

To suggest that individual customers should write to TT is just adding insult to injury. Do they really think that just because some of us are retired we have the leisure to do their job for them! In any case it is impractical - I doubt if any of use combine the technical knowledge combined with the ability to write such a letter let alone in a foreign language! If people feel strongly perhaps one of MMs supporters (Keith springs to mind) could start up a petition, and MM could provide a translator and the assocation submit the petition to TT in support of their own representations.

jofra · Post by **jofra** » Fri 06 Oct 2017 9:26 pm

"....To suggest that individual customers should write to TT is just adding insult to injury. Do they really think that just because some of us are retired we have the leisure to do their job for them!...."
I would dispute that claim - If MM complain - theirs is just one voice, claiming to be supported by many - a claim that the "other side" will dismiss.
To demonstrate two widely different "causes" from several years ago in the UK - the infamous Poll Tax - some MPs opposed it, but were ignored - thousands of people rioted - the poll tax was scrapped.
CB (Citizens Band) radio - one or two MPs supported legalisation - nothing - marches and (peaceful) demonstrations by several hundreds of people - eventually CB radio was legalised....
So, if MM complain , and many individuals also complain, perhaps MM will not be dismissed as just an irritation to be ignored....
I admit that I have not written yet, but I should....

kbasat · Post by **kbasat** » Fri 06 Oct 2017 9:44 pm

My reply on another post...

Keithcaley · Post by **Keithcaley** » Fri 06 Oct 2017 10:12 pm

Having worked in a variety of 'Customer facing' jobs, including being a Customer Service Supervisor (why are you all not surprised? ) I know how difficult it can be for the front-line operatives to sort out the odd, genuine fault from the general prevailing issues - when you get 100 calls, and they're all about the same symptom, but one of them is due to a genuine fault condition, it is regrettably easy to miss it

Another factor is that front line staff are not (generally, at any rate!) University Graduates, they do receive training, and a 'script' to follow, and have a general understanding of whatever it is that they're dealing with, but I believe that they can have a tendency to start believing that they are, in fact, experts, and that they can see and diagnose everything from their desk or console, when in fact they can't, of course...

You do need to convince them that your particular symptoms are not due to the prevailing conditions, and I would stress that it is not productive to exaggerate the problems, any more than it pays to lie to your doctor - you will only get an accurate diagnosis if you supply accurate information.

Just 'stick to your guns' if you're sure that it's not 'just' one of the periodic TTNET issues, and try to remain calm and polite (neither of which are my main strengths!).

p.s. I've just returned to my computer (again) after an evening out, and see many posts since I started typing this - I'll have a look to see if I can address any of those posts on Saturday, if and when I get the chance.

Keithcaley · Post by **Keithcaley** » Sat 07 Oct 2017 8:10 am

Well, I've had a look at those posts, and find nothing worthy of a response, just a collection of meandering, irrelevant, time-wasting crap from the usual suspect

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Sat 07 Oct 2017 6:34 pm

Keithcaley wrote:Well, I've had a look at those posts, and find nothing worthy of a response, just a collection of meandering, irrelevant, time-wasting crap from the usual suspect

I am disappointed in you KC. We may have different opinions but I had not really taken in that you were one of those who were under the misapprehension that making hurtful insulting comments about another poster was a decent and correct way of expressing your opinion.

Or did you misunderstand something again?

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Sat 07 Oct 2017 7:13 pm

The free VPN has always been offered to our customers as a 'courtesy' and not as a core part of the service they buy from us. We have online guides as to how to configure it on a range of different devices and we also offer to configure such devices for customers, at no charge, if they bring them to our office during office hours. I do understand that for some customers this second option may be difficult but really is it the 'social responsibility' of MM to help such customers above and beyond what is normal or is it a wider 'social responsibility' of all of us a citizens to help such people ? Should MM in such a case have sent an engineer out to this customer to configure the VPN for her, passing the costs for this in effect on to all other customers, rather than have a friend or neighbour help them by either configuring the VPN for them using our online guide or taking their device in to our office on their behalf so we could set the VPN up?

Above is an extract from an earlier post by Erol.

1. I have already pointed out that it is not "a free service".

2. I am a computer illiterate , elderly, partiallly disabled person. Nonetheless I was able to configure the VPN following instructions from (a non nature English)speaker who had patience and the intelligence not to confuse me with unnecessary technical terms! Please do not take it for granted that age and incapacity and sometimes slowness equals stupidy.

3. I was distressed by the lack of courtesy and consideration show by MM to an elderly customer and the gentleman who tried to help her. The person who answered the help line enquiry did not bother to listend to his explanation that whilst his break in service had been that afternoon, here had been for two days. Nor does Erol seem to have picked that up that point.

I understand (I have not been able to get there myself) that Multimax offices are on high level in a block in the Centre of Girne with no nearby parking. Therefore any person who is unable to access them, through age, disabiltiy , failty or just lack of transport will not be able to benefit from the services they are paying for.......I had previously doubts about MM but stayed from misplaced loyalty and a belief they were technically the best despite their faults in customer care. Now I am feeling it is against my principles to use a company witht this ethical stance.

3

tingtang · Post by **tingtang** » Sat 07 Oct 2017 7:24 pm

I don't have a dog in this fight but, FWIW, I am subscribed with Nethouse and experienced problems with the net service provided on Wed/Thurs so it does seem rather unfair to single out MM.

Keep your cool guys (& gals), we wish this Forum to remain friendly.

tt.

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Sat 07 Oct 2017 7:33 pm

Reference POST 16 and apart from other aspect of this thread:

I do not really understand the post, but I do not think a comparison with Authorities and the private ISPS is irrelevant as the Statutory Authorities are just that, their terms of contract fixed by Statute (ie basically parliament). In the uk (I am not sure about here) penalties and rates of compensation are also fixed by the authorities.

This is because the "Stats" are so vital to the normal processes of life. In my view (irrespective of the responsibility or efficiency of MM or any other supplier) the internet has now become equally essential if not more so since you cannot get at the money to pay the others without an efficient internet service! In my view all suppliers of Internet services should be subject to statutory control as to the level of service, length of cut, compensation, damages and penalties etc. I realise that the big difficulty (and it is a bit one) is the international nature of the Internet.

PUt forward for interesting discussion of an issue of concern to most of us.

No personal attacks please.

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Sat 07 Oct 2017 7:39 pm

tingtang wrote:I don't have a dog in this fight but, FWIW, I am subscribed with Nethouse and experienced problems with the net service provided on Wed/Thurs so it does seem rather unfair to single out MM.

Keep your cool guys (& gals), we wish this Forum to remain friendly.

tt.

I think we all know that the particular events of Wed/Thurs was a general problem. I am not sure how MM got involved, except that most of us appear to use them, and people took the opportunity to raise other problems. This is both the great joy and the great disadvantage of this type of communiication: drifting off topic can raise other intresting issues and topics but it also seems to lead to friction.
o

Of course the other problem with all Forums is that some posters take a perverse pleasure in attacking those from whom they happen to disagree

erol · Post by **erol** » Sat 07 Oct 2017 7:57 pm

Ragged Robin wrote:1. I have already pointed out that it is not "a free service".

Yes you have expressed this opinion before and continue to state it as fact. When I fill up my car with petrol sometimes they wash my windscreens and other times they do not. It is a 'free' courtesy as far as I am concerned . What I am paying for is the petrol and if they wash my windscreen that is a nice bonus. What I do not do is state that the washing of the windscreen is not really 'free' and demand they do it every time and complain and moan when they do not. The VPN service is a free add on to what customers pay us for , namely an internet connection. As is the access to the ntv tv channels. No other ISPs offer such free extras. You can indeed beat MM up for offering these things and demand not only we offer them but also that we set them up and support peoples use of them, including sending engineers to 'elderly' customers to do so but the simple reality is if that was how the majority of customers behaved in response to us offering such extras that others do not offer, then the only sensible commercial decision we could take would be to simply do what everyone else does and not offer them at all.

Ragged Robin wrote:2. I am a computer illiterate , elderly, partiallly disabled person. Nonetheless I was able to configure the VPN following instructions from (a non nature English)speaker who had patience and the intelligence not to confuse me with unnecessary technical terms! Please do not take it for granted that age and incapacity and sometimes slowness equals stupidy.

No doubt you could also have done so following the online instructions as well.

Ragged Robin wrote:3. I was distressed by the lack of courtesy and consideration show by MM to an elderly customer ...

How do you know the age of the caller ?

Ragged Robin wrote: Nor does Erol seem to have picked that up that point.

You are the one who has failed 'to pick up' the point , which is that on the two days the caller said they had no internet they had in fact downloaded very large amounts of data.

Ragged Robin wrote:I understand (I have not been able to get there myself) that Multimax offices are on high level in a block in the Centre of Girne with no nearby parking. Therefore any person who is unable to access them, through age, disabiltiy , failty or just lack of transport will not be able to benefit from the services they are paying for.......I had previously doubts about MM but stayed from misplaced loyalty and a belief they were technically the best despite their faults in customer care. Now I am feeling it is against my principles to use a company witht this ethical stance.

There are two parking spaces outside the front of the MM office.

If you do not like MM, it service, the free add ons, how much parking space we have, how we answer the phone,or any other aspect of the company you are more than free to take us up on our offer to let you break your term contract early, follow the procedure and get a full refund on the remaining part of that term contract and seek service elsewhere.

We work hard at MM. I work hard for MM. Your constant attacks on us a s a company are in my opinion less about us as a company and certainly us as a company fairly compared to the alternatives on offer here and more about you and your seeming self centred inability to see or care about anything other than your own situation and position.

jofra · Post by **jofra** » Sat 07 Oct 2017 8:22 pm

Ragged Robin wrote:Reference POST 16 and apart from other aspect of this thread:
I do not really understand the post, but I do not think a comparison with Authorities and the private ISPS is irrelevant as the Statutory Authorities are just that, their terms of contract fixed by Statute (ie basically parliament). In the uk (I am not sure about here) penalties and rates of compensation are also fixed by the authorities.

In the UK, problems re. performance, contracts and compensation for internet connection (not limited to broadband) are mainly covered by the consumer rights act and/or the sale of goods act - different from the "statutory" compensation specified for water/electricity/gas failures...

This is because the "Stats" are so vital to the normal processes of life. In my view (irrespective of the responsibility or efficiency of MM or any other supplier) the internet has now become equally essential ....

This is definitely a personal view; I would maintain that it is equally desirable - but there are many areas of the UK where any form of broadband is still virtually or actually unavailable.... mobile/cell phone connectivity is also unavailable, and sometimes the only system is land-line dial-up via modem....

erol · Post by **erol** » Sat 07 Oct 2017 9:04 pm

Ragged Robin wrote: In my view all suppliers of Internet services should be subject to statutory control as to the level of service, length of cut, compensation, damages and penalties etc.

ISPs here are subject to regulatory control. They operate under license from the government here. The government does set minimum standards for a whole range of things including customer service hours we have to fulfil. We are inspected by government. We have to for one example among many provide access to recordings of customers service calls and transcripts of online support chats and if we are failing to do so or meet the government mandated standard we can be fined or even have our licences to operate as an ISP revoked.

Ragged Robin wrote:PUt forward for interesting discussion of an issue of concern to most of us.

Yet apparently little or no interest in discussing how vital utilities like electricity and water and land line telephony are delivered regulated and controlled here, as if these issue are of no concern to anyone and as far as I can tell because they are provided by state owned entities as if that somehow makes their importance of no concern to people. The simple truth is, is that ISPs are already regulated and controlled here by the government both in theory and in practice to vastly greater degree than the entities that supply vital service like electricity and water and telephony. So why the exclusive focus on ISPs and especially on MM of those ISPs ? To me it feels like we are singled out for special treatment by yourself RR for no other reason or cause than we dare to be here on this forum. Leading me to question why we and specifically I bother to do so if that is the result ?

Ragged Robin wrote:No personal attacks please.

I have no doubt that you do not consider anything you have written to be a personal attack but you should know that from where I am sitting it feels very very different. Your posts about the company I work so hard for, with dedication and commitment and your comments about me personally do indeed feel like attacks and what is more extremely partial and unfair ones and have upset considerably. I may not be elderly or infirm or of limited mobility but I am human none the less and I have found much of what you have written in this thread and others before deeply hurtful.

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