The Brexit effect

[Hedge-fund]

Le Pen is now level with Macron in French polls for the election next year.

Bring on Frexit - which will end the eu farce.

[PoshinDevon]

Novavax vaccine now undergoing assessment by the UK medicines regulator. Trials show it to be 90% effective. Also tests show it is very effective against the so called U.K. and South African variants.

Novavax is an American company. Vaccine is produced on Teeside. The U.K. has already pre preordered 60M doses. If approved it will be another great boost to the U.K. vaccination programme which today announced that 7.5M people had received their first dose of the vaccine, with almost 1.4M having received a second dose. The U.K. has given out more jabs than the whole of the EU and is currently 4th in its vaccine rollout based on population.

I am currently volunteering at a mass vaccination centre here in the U.K. and it’s a hugely impressive operation. Just to see many elderly people turning up, many who have hardly left their homes for months makes you want to smile.

Tonight on BBC news it reported that some German politicians are asking pertinent questions around which EU countries were stalling on the cost, sign off and ordering of the Covid 19 vaccines. Basically they said to much time was wasted trying to work out how much each country would contribute towards the cost of over 400M doses.

Big is not always better.

[waz-24-7]

Le Pen is now level with Macron in French polls for the election next year.

Bring on Frexit - which will end the eu farce.

And why is that worthy of note
Possibly
If the EU was to break up and Europe returned to pre 1939 and 1914 standalone war mongering nations.
Would it be conceivable that peace in Europe as seen past 50 yrs will be lost as the loss of unity results in divergence, separation and turmoil even war.
Peace has always been a massive positive of Unions.
United States.
European Union.
United Kingdom
The peaceful unions are there to see.

[TAC]

Novavax vaccine now undergoing assessment by the UK medicines regulator. Trials show it to be 90% effective. Also tests show it is very effective against the so called U.K. and South African variants.

Novavax is an American company. Vaccine is produced on Teeside. The U.K. has already pre preordered 60M doses. If approved it will be another great boost to the U.K. vaccination programme which today announced that 7.5M people had received their first dose of the vaccine, with almost 1.4M having received a second dose. The U.K. has given out more jabs than the whole of the EU and is currently 4th in its vaccine rollout based on population.

I am currently volunteering at a mass vaccination centre here in the U.K. and it’s a hugely impressive operation. Just to see many elderly people turning up, many who have hardly left their homes for months makes you want to smile.

Tonight on BBC news it reported that some German politicians are asking pertinent questions around which EU countries were stalling on the cost, sign off and ordering of the Covid 19 vaccines. Basically they said to much time was wasted trying to work out how much each country would contribute towards the cost of over 400M doses.

Big is not always better.

Great news and produce in house, maybe the EU will put a order in before summer

[waz-24-7]

Novavax vaccine now undergoing assessment by the UK medicines regulator. Trials show it to be 90% effective. Also tests show it is very effective against the so called U.K. and South African variants.

Novavax is an American company. Vaccine is produced on Teeside. The U.K. has already pre preordered 60M doses.

Tonight on BBC news it reported that some German politicians are asking pertinent questions around which EU countries were stalling on the cost, sign off and ordering of the Covid 19 vaccines. Basically they spent to much time trying to work out how much each country would contribute towards the cost of over 400M doses.

Big is not always better.

Yes,
Big is not always better.
The situation in the EU is of concern of course. There are some difficulties.
Given the geographical close proximity (a single land mass) of the EU member states. It is difficult confining the virus within any of the fixed borders and the EU as a region is considered as a single transmissive area. No one is safe until all are safe.
The UK as an Island massively improves its ability to isolate itself from outside viral attack and to lock down its borders.

Novavax product is indeed great news in the war against the disease. The UK looks to continue roll out and will certainly just as soon as possible assist others until the global spread is halted. Only then can we say the war is won.
Like the whole Brexit stand alone thing. You cannot eradicate the virus from UK shores and take the view that its all fine and rosy. A unified approach is essential. Of course the war is being fought across all continents .Some will do better than others. This is not a time for roll out competition, bickering or them and us. The campaign must be global, supported and focused.

[Hedge-fund]

Le Pen is now level with Macron in French polls for the election next year.

Bring on Frexit - which will end the eu farce.

And why is that worthy of note
Possibly
If the EU was to break up and Europe returned to pre 1939 and 1914 standalone war mongering nations.
Would it be conceivable that peace in Europe as seen past 50 yrs will be lost as the loss of unity results in divergence, separation and turmoil even war.
Peace has always been a massive positive of Unions.
United States.
European Union.
United Kingdom
The peaceful unions are there to see.

Cameron tried the WW3 threat in project fear.

As with every other threat - it's empty.

Proud independent nations working and trading with each other.

Protection comes as usual through nato led by US and UK. Intelligence protection through 5 eyes.

The eu is dead.

[Hedge-fund]

Scrub that waz.....the eu want to kill us....

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... cine-plant

[PoshinDevon]

Novavax vaccine now undergoing assessment by the UK medicines regulator. Trials show it to be 90% effective. Also tests show it is very effective against the so called U.K. and South African variants.

Novavax is an American company. Vaccine is produced on Teeside. The U.K. has already pre preordered 60M doses.

Tonight on BBC news it reported that some German politicians are asking pertinent questions around which EU countries were stalling on the cost, sign off and ordering of the Covid 19 vaccines. Basically they spent to much time trying to work out how much each country would contribute towards the cost of over 400M doses.

Big is not always better.

Yes,
Big is not always better.
The situation in the EU is of concern of course. There are some difficulties.
Given the geographical close proximity (a single land mass) of the EU member states. It is difficult confining the virus within any of the fixed borders and the EU as a region is considered as a single transmissive area. No one is safe until all are safe.
The UK as an Island massively improves its ability to isolate itself from outside viral attack and to lock down its borders.

Novavax product is indeed great news in the war against the disease. The UK looks to continue roll out and will certainly just as soon as possible assist others until the global spread is halted. Only then can we say the war is won.
Like the whole Brexit stand alone thing. You cannot eradicate the virus from UK shores and take the view that its all fine and rosy. A unified approach is essential. Of course the war is being fought across all continents .Some will do better than others. This is not a time for roll out competition, bickering or them and us. The campaign must be global, supported and focused.

Waz,

My point is that the poor vaccine rollout within EU member states is primarily due to the bureaucratic way the EU operates. Instead of moving quickly months ago to secure vaccine stock they spent far to much time discussing what contribution each state should make. Given the EU initially required 400M doses of a vaccine this was time wasted. Hence they were late in ordering vaccine and even up to today have yet to sign off the Oxford/Astra Zeneca vaccine.

If normally conservative german politicians are questioning this delay then it clearly is something the EU has failed on.

Whilst EU countries are free to strike there own vaccine deals the majority decided to use the supposed EU buying power to obtain a vaccine. The U.K. decided early on not to rely on the EU to procure vaccine. If the U.K. had still been in the EU and had decided to only purchase some vaccine itself and allow the EU to obtain supply and there was a shortage then the population would have been asking very serious questions.

The EU is to slow and constrained by its own political mechanisms so no wonder many member states are deeply unhappy.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Peace has always been a massive positive of Unions.
United States.
European Union.
United Kingdom
The peaceful unions are there to see.

Yes Yugoslavia was a shining example of when countries are lumped together against their will.
Unless you don't think a country's people should be allowed to express their will? All those countries from the old Soviet Union who sought freedom and independence were war mongers?

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Given the geographical close proximity (a single land mass) of the EU member states. It is difficult confining the virus within any of the fixed borders and the EU as a region is considered as a single transmissive area. No one is safe until all are safe.

So there are potential problems with open borders, it's not all Tabatha doing her gap year in Tuscany then? Wow who would have thought?

The UK looks to continue roll out and will certainly just as soon as possible assist others until the global spread is halted. Only then can we say the war is won.
Like the whole Brexit stand alone thing. You cannot eradicate the virus from UK shores and take the view that its all fine and rosy. A unified approach is essential. Of course the war is being fought across all continents .Some will do better than others. This is not a time for roll out competition, bickering or them and us. The campaign must be global, supported and focused.

Of course the UK will try to assist it's European allies. What will happen is we will arrange a plan with Germany, France, Belgium. Holland etc and be ready to start within a day and then the self important EU will force themselves into the equation and any help that we were willing to offer will be delayed by months waiting for sign off from the EU.

[kibsolar1999]

yes, the vaccine battle, vaccine nationalism is on...
and waz is absolutely right to say:
A unified approach is essential. ...This is not a time for roll out competition, bickering or them and us. The campaign must be global, supported and focused.

by Hedge-fund » Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:57 am
Scrub that waz.....the eu want to kill us....

from the same article: The British government’s decision to ban the export of certain coronavirus medicines was further cited by an EU official as reason for Brussels to protect itself from acts of protectionism around the world.

who wants to kill whom? medicines are needed NOW, a vaccine shortage does not kill you, you "just" have to follow the rules. distance, masks the lot. something we CAN follow, in eg, Africa they do not have even masks.

[Brazen]

yes, the vaccine battle, vaccine nationalism is on...
and waz is absolutely right to say:
A unified approach is essential. ...This is not a time for roll out competition, bickering or them and us. The campaign must be global, supported and focused.

by Hedge-fund » Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:57 am
Scrub that waz.....the eu want to kill us....

from the same article: The British government’s decision to ban the export of certain coronavirus medicines was further cited by an EU official as reason for Brussels to protect itself from acts of protectionism around the world.

who wants to kill whom? medicines are needed NOW, a vaccine shortage does not kill you, you "just" have to follow the rules. distance, masks the lot. something we CAN follow, in eg, Africa they do not have even masks.

First come, first served. It’s hardly the UK’s fault that the eu dragged their feet over ordering and authorising the vaccines.

[Hedge-fund]

There is just one country the eu has banned exports to.......

Oh.....and they have created a hard border on the island of Ireland.

What a hideous bunch of gangsters.

[waz-24-7]

There is just one country the eu has banned exports to.......

Screenshot_20210129-173319_Chrome.jpg

Oh.....and they have created a hard border on the island of Ireland.

What a hideous bunch of gangsters.

Oh Dear.
So its not enough to divorce your wife!!
Now you want to murder her too.
Would things be different if we were in the EU.
Death numbers, vaccine roll out?

The pandemic is certainly a new unknown angle. I guess at least there is a charge forwards to get vaccines out to ALL as soon as possible.
We should spare some thought for nations outside of the affluent minority where death rates are simply unknown.

[waz-24-7]

Novavax vaccine now undergoing assessment by the UK medicines regulator. Trials show it to be 90% effective. Also tests show it is very effective against the so called U.K. and South African variants.

Novavax is an American company. Vaccine is produced on Teeside. The U.K. has already pre preordered 60M doses.

Tonight on BBC news it reported that some German politicians are asking pertinent questions around which EU countries were stalling on the cost, sign off and ordering of the Covid 19 vaccines. Basically they spent to much time trying to work out how much each country would contribute towards the cost of over 400M doses.

Big is not always better.

Yes,
Big is not always better.
The situation in the EU is of concern of course. There are some difficulties.
Given the geographical close proximity (a single land mass) of the EU member states. It is difficult confining the virus within any of the fixed borders and the EU as a region is considered as a single transmissive area. No one is safe until all are safe.
The UK as an Island massively improves its ability to isolate itself from outside viral attack and to lock down its borders.

Novavax product is indeed great news in the war against the disease. The UK looks to continue roll out and will certainly just as soon as possible assist others until the global spread is halted. Only then can we say the war is won.
Like the whole Brexit stand alone thing. You cannot eradicate the virus from UK shores and take the view that its all fine and rosy. A unified approach is essential. Of course the war is being fought across all continents .Some will do better than others. This is not a time for roll out competition, bickering or them and us. The campaign must be global, supported and focused.

Waz,

My point is that the poor vaccine rollout within EU member states is primarily due to the bureaucratic way the EU operates. Instead of moving quickly months ago to secure vaccine stock they spent far to much time discussing what contribution each state should make. Given the EU initially required 400M doses of a vaccine this was time wasted. Hence they were late in ordering vaccine and even up to today have yet to sign off the Oxford/Astra Zeneca vaccine.

If normally conservative german politicians are questioning this delay then it clearly is something the EU has failed on.

Whilst EU countries are free to strike there own vaccine deals the majority decided to use the supposed EU buying power to obtain a vaccine. The U.K. decided early on not to rely on the EU to procure vaccine. If the U.K. had still been in the EU and had decided to only purchase some vaccine itself and allow the EU to obtain supply and there was a shortage then the population would have been asking very serious questions.

The EU is to slow and constrained by its own political mechanisms so no wonder many member states are deeply unhappy.

Yes
I will not contest the point .. The EU is to slow and constrained by its own political mechanisms.. The EU has acknowledged (behind doors0 this and clearly lessons will be learned.
This does not change my position and view that unity and co operation between nations via Unions is the prescription for peace and prosperity.
It will never be easy or perfect but its better than right wing nationalistic isolationism

[Hedge-fund]

If we were still in the eu we would be in a similar position to the 'countries' that are in it. Desperately short of vaccines and unable to vote out the eu incompetents that put them in this position.

I hope at some stage the UK can bring the oxford vaccine to Cyprus and dish it out in the SBAs to
Expats, Cypriots and mainlanders.

[waz-24-7]

Peace has always been a massive positive of Unions.
United States.
European Union.
United Kingdom
The peaceful unions are there to see.

Yes Yugoslavia was a shining example of when countries are lumped together against their will.
Unless you don't think a country's people should be allowed to express their will? All those countries from the old Soviet Union who sought freedom and independence were war mongers?

Hmm
Sorry but communism is hardly classed as a Union. The Unions I have referred to are have all had and dealt with issues but by enlarge they have the democratic foundation to succeed and prosper. The threat to break them up will always be there as some feel its would be better outside and on their own. The cycle of change will continue so ill take that on board and hope the UK stays united and that it will rejoin the EU in due course.

[PoshinDevon]

Waz -

You wrote.....
“It will never be easy or perfect but its better than right wing nationalistic isolationism”

Very strong words indeed. You are suggesting that the U.K. is like Germany in the late 30’s which I find close to offensive.

The bottom line is the EU has failed its citizens and there failure cannot be defended.

[waz-24-7]

Waz -

You wrote.....
“It will never be easy or perfect but its better than right wing nationalistic isolationism”

Very strong words indeed. You are suggesting that the U.K. is like Germany in the late 30’s which I find close to offensive.

The bottom line is the EU has failed its citizens and there failure cannot be defended.

Politics and social structures evolve and change with time.
The era we are experiencing now is what I have suggested
The Brexit campaign was run by such megalomaniacs that we would frankly be better without.
Hitler indeed hoodwinked and led the Germans into the demise of that country. The recovery , in due course , eventually emerged as we have seen.
The EU has failed its citizens...yes. Has not the UK failed the 100 plus thousand families that have suffered death and loss.

Should these families up sticks and leave the UK? No they will soldier on and seek change and ensure things get better.
The UK is no Utopia . It is moving in a direction that is not at all comfortable with me. It started with Brexit and could possibly lead to the demise of the United Kingdom as we know it.
Yes I think nationalistic isolationism instigated by the Right wing hoodwinkers ( Mr F in particular) is sneaking in under the nose of the unsuspecting.

[Hedge-fund]

The eu are showing their nazi credentials at the moment.

I think both Biden and the Irish PM will be on the phone to them as we speak about the hard covid border on the island of Ireland.

Watch this space.

[Hedge-fund]

Looks like the eu invoked article 16 ( override the withdrawal agreement and impose a hard border on the island of Ireland) without informing Ireland.

They are now under pressure from all sides to u-turn.

What a shambles they are. It would be amusing if there were not lives at stake.

They need to be voted out...........oh..........hang on a minute.......

[Hedge-fund]

.....aaaaaannnd

They've backed down

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-eu- ... s-12202835

The shambolic eu decision to invoke Article 16, clearly without prior notice has managed to unite the British and Irish governments, Labour, the DUP and SDLP in disagreement with the move...

When did that last happen?

France has shut its borders & Italian govt has collapsed.....

Meanwhile - the UK is scoping a plan to innoculate the Irish population because in current eu plans they will not be done this year.

[waz-24-7]

Oh dear

I find it very sad and concerning.
Hostility, and aggression within the first few weeks of the final divorce. Does it matter where, who and how? Are we already at war?
No …..the damage and loss to all is not good. Confrontation just adds to turmoil. Can we maintain our EU customers within this air of non cooperation?
What now can we expect?
If the EU should continue to break up then the return to the aggressive politics of the 1930's is a real possibility.

I believe this is the bigger picture that has by enlarge been neglected. The rapid emergence of disquiet is startling.
Many will fuel the fire with little regard to potential outcomes.
The longer term rise in divergence and nationalistic politics is indeed worrying.

[PoshinDevon]

Waz -

You wrote.....
“It will never be easy or perfect but its better than right wing nationalistic isolationism”

Very strong words indeed. You are suggesting that the U.K. is like Germany in the late 30’s which I find close to offensive.

The bottom line is the EU has failed its citizens and there failure cannot be defended.

Politics and social structures evolve and change with time.
The era we are experiencing now is what I have suggested
The Brexit campaign was run by such megalomaniacs that we would frankly be better without.
Hitler indeed hoodwinked and led the Germans into the demise of that country. The recovery , in due course , eventually emerged as we have seen.
The EU has failed its citizens...yes. Has not the UK failed the 100 plus thousand families that have suffered death and loss.

Should these families up sticks and leave the UK? No they will soldier on and seek change and ensure things get better.
The UK is no Utopia . It is moving in a direction that is not at all comfortable with me. It started with Brexit and could possibly lead to the demise of the United Kingdom as we know it.
Yes I think nationalistic isolationism instigated by the Right wing hoodwinkers ( Mr F in particular) is sneaking in under the nose of the unsuspecting.

To even suggest that the U.K. is moving in the direction of Germany towards the end of the 30s indicates to me that it is not worth debating with you.

The EU were far to slow to secure vaccine orders that is a fact. Plus the actions of the last 24hrs by the EU resembles an organisation who are in disarray. This is a massive failure of diplomacy and one that EU citizens should rightly be asking very serious questions about.

[Brazen]

Interesting article regarding the covid vaccines:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -plot.html

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Peace has always been a massive positive of Unions.
United States.
European Union.
United Kingdom
The peaceful unions are there to see.

Yes Yugoslavia was a shining example of when countries are lumped together against their will.
Unless you don't think a country's people should be allowed to express their will? All those countries from the old Soviet Union who sought freedom and independence were war mongers?

Hmm
Sorry but communism is hardly classed as a Union. The Unions I have referred to are have all had and dealt with issues but by enlarge they have the democratic foundation to succeed and prosper. The threat to break them up will always be there as some feel its would be better outside and on their own. The cycle of change will continue so ill take that on board and hope the UK stays united and that it will rejoin the EU in due course.

I know your history is a bit sketchy especially when the facts don’t suit but Yugoslavia wasn’t created by Communism. You could say Communism or a Communist leader kept it together longer than its sell by date.
Welding people together against their will doesn’t work

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Oh dear

I find it very sad and concerning.
Hostility, and aggression within the first few weeks of the final divorce. Does it matter where, who and how?

I love this embarrassed hand wringing let’s try and brush over who caused this and just say how sad the row is and eventually in a few months we can say there was fault on both sides.

The EU have been the EU and added unnecessary time and bureaucracy onto a process where spied is of the essence. That’s what they do.
Britain has got this right but can’t be allowed to enjoy being right they need to be punished and bought back into line. Resistance is futile.

I am just delighted that it has only taken a couple of weeks to reveal why I wanted to leave the EU and what a flawed organisation it is.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

The Brexit campaign was run by such megalomaniacs that we would frankly be better without.

What people that reflected the views of the majority of their fellow citizens and tried to enact those opinions? Yep we need to knock that on the head.

The UK is no Utopia . It is moving in a direction that is not at all comfortable with me. It started with Brexit and could possibly lead to the demise of the United Kingdom as we know it.
Yes I think nationalistic isolationism instigated by the Right wing hoodwinkers ( Mr F in particular) is sneaking in under the nose of the unsuspecting.

So just to be clear Farage taps into and reflects the feeling in the country that people want to leave the EU. This is the EU we never voted to join and has changed totally from what we were told that we were going to join.

Eventually we get a referendum and the people vote to leave. Every election after that clearly showed that the movement from the majority was to leave.

So to get a vote on something that tens of millions wanted a say in and then try to enact the result of that vote is a fascist megalomaniac trying to hoodwink a country?

I think one of us is confused as to what fascism is and in their confusion is actually giving it a good name.

[Brazen]

The Brexit campaign was run by such megalomaniacs that we would frankly be better without.

What people that reflected the views of the majority of their fellow citizens and tried to enact those opinions? Yep we need to knock that on the head.

The UK is no Utopia . It is moving in a direction that is not at all comfortable with me. It started with Brexit and could possibly lead to the demise of the United Kingdom as we know it.
Yes I think nationalistic isolationism instigated by the Right wing hoodwinkers ( Mr F in particular) is sneaking in under the nose of the unsuspecting.

So just to be clear Farage taps into and reflects the feeling in the country that people want to leave the EU. This is the EU we never voted to join and has changed totally from what we were told that we were going to join.

Eventually we get a referendum and the people vote to leave. Every election after that clearly showed that the movement from the majority was to leave.

So to get a vote on something that tens of millions wanted a say in and then try to enact the result of that vote is a fascist megalomaniac trying to hoodwink a country?

I think one of us is confused as to what fascism is and in their confusion is actually giving it a good name.

In my opinion the ones showing fascist tendencies are those that spent 3 years trying to overturn a democratic decision. The same tendencies were shown by the US democrats (what a misnomer) in trying to get the democratically elected president out of office.

[Hedge-fund]

Amazing that the eu treats the republic of Ireland like a colonial outpost and dictates what happens at its borders without even telling them.

100 years of independence was just brought to a juddering end.

And some still think the eu experiment is only a trade bloc.

Morally & economically bankrupt, bullying mafia-like control of once proud nations ( Eire, Greece, Portugal etc) The genie is out of the bottle and once merkel retires it will fall apart.

[kibsolar1999]

This is a massive failure of diplomacy and one that EU citizens should rightly be asking very serious questions about.

oh yes "we" do. the papers and talkshows are full of it.
there are many germans who ask
as we do produce the best vaccine in the world (bionTech), why we do not get it first and why of all things it is exported to those who decided to leave the union ?

but many also feel a shame of the export controls in 2020, even within the union, for masks and others.
that was sort of sorted quickly (and yesterday it took the "slowly EU" one night to undo a wrong decision...)
but, to remember, the only country which did not undo export controls was and still is the UK.
not a word here about that.

yes, be "proud" of your vaccination program, even if you take in consideration that approx 50% of all doses in the EU are "kept in stock" for the second shot to be given in time and assures the 95% immunity.
the outcome of the british decision for a single shot only.... the EU and the rest of the world will watch and will learn....
shall we say: thank you?

nevertheless i believe there will be a solution found quickly. many (here) will say : we won that battle, haha, i will buy a MEGA cap....
but i think it is more about that the EU takes in consideration what i mentioned here: for all it is better to vaccinate the british asap... otherwise the UK will or may hit the 150 or 200k till summer or earlier and meanwhile may "produce" another variant.

[Walesforever]

Waz

I bet your really proud of the EU and the ways it’s acted in the past 48 hours.

Good to see The UK standing up to them and also the likes of Canada,Australia,Ireland also telling them to back down.

The EU are an utter shambles and have had to resort to trying to bullying us because they took three months too long regarding the vaccines.
Shame on them. Thank God we left

[Walesforever]

Kib solar

In case you missed it today France and Germany have both closed their borders because they can’t get on top of the virus and their cases rocket.
Yes we have the third highest deaths (so far) but very close behind and slowly catching up is France.

The EU have been an utter embarrassment and it’s good to see their bullying tactics failing.

The EU placed their orders 3 whole months AFTER the UK. So you expect to go to the front of the que?

Currently 3 are part produced in the EU and 2 in the UK.so it’s not just the EU that produce vaccines.

The Oxford vaccine is also produced in India.

Shame on the bully boys of the EU. I’m just glad we are OUT!!!

[kerry 6138]

This is a massive failure of diplomacy and one that EU citizens should rightly be asking very serious questions about.

oh yes "we" do. the papers and talkshows are full of it.
there are many germans who ask
as we do produce the best vaccine in the world (bionTech), why we do not get it first and why of all things it is exported to those who decided to leave the union ?

but many also feel a shame of the export controls in 2020, even within the union, for masks and others.
that was sort of sorted quickly (and yesterday it took the "slowly EU" one night to undo a wrong decision...)
but, to remember, the only country which did not undo export controls was and still is the UK.
not a word here about that.

yes, be "proud" of your vaccination program, even if you take in consideration that approx 50% of all doses in the EU are "kept in stock" for the second shot to be given in time and assures the 95% immunity.
the outcome of the british decision for a single shot only.... the EU and the rest of the world will watch and will learn....
shall we say: thank you?

nevertheless i believe there will be a solution found quickly. many (here) will say : we won that battle, haha, i will buy a MEGA cap....
but i think it is more about that the EU takes in consideration what i mentioned here: for all it is better to vaccinate the british asap... otherwise the UK will or may hit the 150 or 200k till summer or earlier and meanwhile may "produce" another variant.
[/quote/]

Do you really believe the Biontech vaccine is the best when it has to be stored and transported at outer space temperature requires two jabs and is being sold to make a profit.
UK policy is not one shot vaccination but to delay the second one ,so more people can benefit from some protection, time will tell.
How much genomic testing does EU carry out?

[PoshinDevon]

kibsolar

Yes I am rightly proud of the U.K. vaccination programme. It’s been a long year with many ups and downs, with the downs really hurting.

I will take no bleating or moans from the EU. The failure of there vaccination programme sits firmly with them. There slow actions in the last few months and there pronouncements and back tracking in the last couple of days have been in diplomatic and political terms been farcical. The EU initially made threats about vaccine supply, then reversed its decision to trigger an emergency provision in the Brexit deal to control Covid vaccine exports from the EU. It has now come to light that the EU Commission's redacted version of events blanks out the details on the Oxford/AstraZeneca delivery schedule and any competent AZ barrister would run circles round the EU commission if this ever came to court. All of this is a typical diversionary tactic to paper over an EU Commission failure.

From the BBC News Website: EU 'fiasco' on N Ireland heaps pressure on Commission.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55872763

I am volunteering at a mass vaccination centre and I am humbled by the massive efforts of all involved to get these centres up and running. Just to see people coming in for their appointments with a smile on their face is fantastic. The U.K. has decided it is better to vaccinate more people quickly to give a good level of protection. This means that the most vulnerable will receive a level of protection quickly. The level of protection has been clearly explained many times. Is it better to give more people some protection with one injection (Up to 70%) or less people protection (Up to 85%) with a second injection. You know what.... most of the population just want some protection as soon as possible.

We can all pick holes in the way the U.K. and I include all the dissolved parliaments have handled this pandemic. However; having vaccinated over 7.5M vulnerable citizens to date, secured many millions of vaccine doses, vaccinated more people than the U.S and the whole of the EU plus on target to vaccinated 15M by mid Feb. Add to this the U.K. sits in 4th place in the world of countries per capita of number of citizens vaccinated. So yes I am rightly proud.

I hope the EU get there act together soon without resorting to threats and bullying tactics. It is the least there citizens deserve.

[Hedge-fund]

This is a massive failure of diplomacy and one that EU citizens should rightly be asking very serious questions about.

oh yes "we" do. the papers and talkshows are full of it.
there are many germans who ask
as we do produce the best vaccine in the world (bionTech), why we do not get it first and why of all things it is exported to those who decided to leave the union ?

but many also feel a shame of the export controls in 2020, even within the union, for masks and others.
that was sort of sorted quickly (and yesterday it took the "slowly EU" one night to undo a wrong decision...)
but, to remember, the only country which did not undo export controls was and still is the UK.
not a word here about that.

yes, be "proud" of your vaccination program, even if you take in consideration that approx 50% of all doses in the EU are "kept in stock" for the second shot to be given in time and assures the 95% immunity.
the outcome of the british decision for a single shot only.... the EU and the rest of the world will watch and will learn....
shall we say: thank you?

nevertheless i believe there will be a solution found quickly. many (here) will say : we won that battle, haha, i will buy a MEGA cap....
but i think it is more about that the EU takes in consideration what i mentioned here: for all it is better to vaccinate the british asap... otherwise the UK will or may hit the 150 or 200k till summer or earlier and meanwhile may "produce" another variant.

Gloves are off I see

[waz-24-7]

Waz -

You wrote.....
“It will never be easy or perfect but its better than right wing nationalistic isolationism”

Very strong words indeed. You are suggesting that the U.K. is like Germany in the late 30’s which I find close to offensive.

The bottom line is the EU has failed its citizens and there failure cannot be defended.

Politics and social structures evolve and change with time.
The era we are experiencing now is what I have suggested
The Brexit campaign was run by such megalomaniacs that we would frankly be better without.
Hitler indeed hoodwinked and led the Germans into the demise of that country. The recovery , in due course , eventually emerged as we have seen.
The EU has failed its citizens...yes. Has not the UK failed the 100 plus thousand families that have suffered death and loss.

Should these families up sticks and leave the UK? No they will soldier on and seek change and ensure things get better.
The UK is no Utopia . It is moving in a direction that is not at all comfortable with me. It started with Brexit and could possibly lead to the demise of the United Kingdom as we know it.
Yes I think nationalistic isolationism instigated by the Right wing hoodwinkers ( Mr F in particular) is sneaking in under the nose of the unsuspecting.

To even suggest that the U.K. is moving in the direction of Germany towards the end of the 30s indicates to me that it is not worth debating with you.

The EU were far to slow to secure vaccine orders that is a fact. Plus the actions of the last 24hrs by the EU resembles an organisation who are in disarray. This is a massive failure of diplomacy and one that EU citizens should rightly be asking very serious questions about.

Posh,
Sorry you are missing the point.
I don't think for a moment the UK will follow the direction of Germany or at least Nazi Germany.

I make the point that European pre Union and pre war history has been ruled by nationalistic individualistic power hungry administrations that led to two great wars and numerous skirmishes. Most of this turmoil was within mainland Europe and very close to home so what happens in Europe has and always will effect the UK. Certainly the Russians will be over the moon if the EU breaks up and returns to pre war division. Far easier to infiltrate divide and conquer.

[waz-24-7]

Waz

I bet your really proud of the EU and the ways it’s acted in the past 48 hours.

Good to see The UK standing up to them and also the likes of Canada,Australia,Ireland also telling them to back down.

The EU are an utter shambles and have had to resort to trying to bullying us because they took three months too long regarding the vaccines.
Shame on them. Thank God we left

Hmm
Yes thank god we left!! Oh dear..so short term and blinkered.
Do you think UK businesses should cancel any orders they have from European customers.?
Teach them a lesson hey!!

It is very sad that the war on this virus has come down to this. The EU has acted poorly and without legitimate reason. The UK must act sensibly and parties must recover to secure mutual benefit.
I'm afraid your aggressive "stand up to them" will not help the situation or assist the UK to prosper after this pandemic.

[waz-24-7]

The Brexit campaign was run by such megalomaniacs that we would frankly be better without.

What people that reflected the views of the majority of their fellow citizens and tried to enact those opinions? Yep we need to knock that on the head.

The UK is no Utopia . It is moving in a direction that is not at all comfortable with me. It started with Brexit and could possibly lead to the demise of the United Kingdom as we know it.
Yes I think nationalistic isolationism instigated by the Right wing hoodwinkers ( Mr F in particular) is sneaking in under the nose of the unsuspecting.

So just to be clear Farage taps into and reflects the feeling in the country that people want to leave the EU. This is the EU we never voted to join and has changed totally from what we were told that we were going to join.

Eventually we get a referendum and the people vote to leave. Every election after that clearly showed that the movement from the majority was to leave.

So to get a vote on something that tens of millions wanted a say in and then try to enact the result of that vote is a fascist megalomaniac trying to hoodwink a country?

I think one of us is confused as to what fascism is and in their confusion is actually giving it a good name.

In my opinion the ones showing fascist tendencies are those that spent 3 years trying to overturn a democratic decision. The same tendencies were shown by the US democrats (what a misnomer) in trying to get the democratically elected president out of office.

Fascists !! Not a reference that I have used in this debate.
Referendums are never a good idea in my opinion. They seem to always invoke division, distrust, blame and turmoil.
Will Scotland get another?
Will the UK re join the EU?
Time will tell and I only hope decisions of this nature will come via a mandate granted to parliament via a democratic election of a suitable administration.

[PoshinDevon]

Waz.... You were the one who mentioned right wing nationalistic causes.

Rather than try and cloud the issue or debate, just take a look at reports this evening across all the main stream news channels and see what they are reporting concerning the EU and the way it has handled its vaccine roll out, its farcical attempts to stop vaccine delivery and its U turn. I have posted just one link from the normally pro BBC and it’s European correspondent Katy Adler. It really is a damming report!!

[waz-24-7]

Waz.... You were the one who mentioned right wing nationalistic causes.

Rather than try and cloud the issue or debate, just take a look at reports this evening across all the main stream news channels and see what they are reporting concerning the EU and the way it has handled its vaccine roll out, its farcical attempts to stop vaccine delivery and its U turn. I have posted just one link from the normally pro BBC and it’s European correspondent Katy Adler. It really is a damming report!!

Posh
Right wing and Fascism are very different.
The Brexit party is certainly right wing and ultra right wing political views in Europe are gathering momentum.

The debate is the Brexit effect. The debate is not clouded in my view.
I do not contest the bad handling, by the EU, of the Vaccine fiasco . There is no more to be gained from me by taking that point any further. I have never said the EU was a perfect institution. It clearly is not. As is the UK as we know. I do have concerns how some on the forum take glee in taking the matter to the N th degree and how right we are to be out. Very shortsighted and confrontational I think.

My support for being part of a trading and co operative Union with Europe does not change. This is the long game.

I have often said how the UK relationship with The EU will take a step backwards ( that is normal in relationships after a divorce) I envisage increasing levels of tension with time because the EU is now a competitor for international trade as well as being the UK's largest and demanding customer.
I expect the amount of UK trade with the EU to diminish whilst other trading nations capitalise on the lesser co operation between EU and UK. This is not good for UK business.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Referendums are never a good idea in my opinion. They seem to always invoke division, distrust, blame and turmoil.
Will Scotland get another?
Will the UK re join the EU?
Time will tell and I only hope decisions of this nature will come via a mandate granted to parliament via a democratic election of a suitable administration.

So you don’t want a referendum because you can’t be guaranteed those pesky people won’t vote as they are told, much better to have rejoining slipped into the small print of a manifesto or perhaps not at all?
Ok got it, you have no interest in democracy if it stands in the way if rejoining the EU?
What would be your second choice, the U.K. becoming a member via invasion?
You really have missed the reason why people wanted to leave this body haven’t you?

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Right wing and Fascism are very different.
The Brexit party is certainly right wing and ultra right wing political views in Europe are gathering momentum.

Oh I think we all caught the dog whistles. What is gathering momentum is a lot of people want out of the EU or at least how it is evolving. If the “ultra right” are making capital from that it is because our politicians are ignoring those concerns.

The debate is the Brexit effect. The debate is not clouded in my view.
I do not contest the bad handling, by the EU, of the Vaccine fiasco . There is no more to be gained from me by taking that point any further. I have never said the EU was a perfect institution. It clearly is not. As is the UK as we know. I do have concerns how some on the forum take glee in taking the matter to the N th degree and how right we are to be out. Very shortsighted and confrontational I think.

You can’t contest them and if Britain had lagged behind on the vaccinations you would be gleefully pointing it out 10 times a day but as the EU has dropped the ball then you are desperate to change the subject.

My support for being part of a trading and co operative Union with Europe does not change. This is the long game.

Many would support that but that isn’t the end game of the EU project

[waz-24-7]

Right wing and Fascism are very different.
The Brexit party is certainly right wing and ultra right wing political views in Europe are gathering momentum.

Oh I think we all caught the dog whistles. What is gathering momentum is a lot of people want out of the EU or at least how it is evolving. If the “ultra right” are making capital from that it is because our politicians are ignoring those concerns.

The debate is the Brexit effect. The debate is not clouded in my view.
I do not contest the bad handling, by the EU, of the Vaccine fiasco . There is no more to be gained from me by taking that point any further. I have never said the EU was a perfect institution. It clearly is not. As is the UK as we know. I do have concerns how some on the forum take glee in taking the matter to the N th degree and how right we are to be out. Very shortsighted and confrontational I think.

You can’t contest them and if Britain had lagged behind on the vaccinations you would be gleefully pointing it out 10 times a day but as the EU has dropped the ball then you are desperate to change the subject.

My support for being part of a trading and co operative Union with Europe does not change. This is the long game.

Many would support that but that isn’t the end game of the EU project

The end game of the EU is down to that administration. I believe some radical overhaul is on the cards. Clearly if the EU would like the UK to re join then it will need to alter course. I believe the member states will drive forward change. Positive change.
It is not unconceivable that change will come and the UK will see fit to rejoin.

[Walesforever]

Waz

If the UK was lagging behind in the vaccine programme you would be blowing up our arses every other sentence and telling us it was our fault we left the EU.

Instead we are leading the way and putting the EU to shame.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

The end game of the EU is down to that administration. I believe some radical overhaul is on the cards. Clearly if the EU would like the UK to re join then it will need to alter course. I believe the member states will drive forward change. Positive change.
It is not unconceivable that change will come and the UK will see fit to rejoin.

Everything points to the ultimate end game being a United States of Europe eg one nation.
Were it to alter course and become a simple trading block then I would have no problem with us rejoining it. A trading block has no need for an anthem, flag, army, currency, judiciary system, parliament etc etc because they are things a nation has.

[kerry 6138]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health..
Germany wants to jump-start gene sequencing efforts to closely track coronavirus mutations and catch up with European nations such as Britain and Denmark which have taken the lead on decoding viral genomes.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/19/new-covid-strain.
1/19/2021 · Germany is the latest country to discover a new mutation of the coronavirus, with a new variant identified among a group of hospital patients in Bavaria.

[waz-24-7]

The end game of the EU is down to that administration. I believe some radical overhaul is on the cards. Clearly if the EU would like the UK to re join then it will need to alter course. I believe the member states will drive forward change. Positive change.
It is not unconceivable that change will come and the UK will see fit to rejoin.

Everything points to the ultimate end game being a United States of Europe eg one nation.
Were it to alter course and become a simple trading block then I would have no problem with us rejoining it. A trading block has no need for an anthem, flag, army, currency, judiciary system, parliament etc etc because they are things a nation has.

Sometimes economy of scale and uniformity makes sense. In some it does not as you point out. Certainly trading standards such as food labeling and CE marking make sense.
Regardless .. to trade with the EU many of these legislations must be acknowledged or we simply stop trading many commodities and products.

The UK forfeited the trade ticket because of the free movement of people issue. We wanted to control our borders from " undesirables" such as the Turkish who according to the red bus would be lining up on our borders. This was an error in my view and not what many voted for.
On other points such as Judiciary, parliament, army, currency. I'm not interested as they have little benefit in my book. The negotiations did not go well but could have been better if we allowed for people movement.

[waz-24-7]

Waz

.

Instead we are leading the way and putting the EU to shame.

Hmm
Is that what it's all about.
i'll sleep soundly now I know we've shamed the enemy.

[PoshinDevon]

Waz

As you often say the debate has moved on. The U.K. has left the EU and a deal has been done. You are wasting your time regurgitating your pro remain views.

We are now discussing the Brexit effect which to my mind means things that have happened since the U.K. left. One topic we are discussing is how well or not the U.K. has handled it’s vaccination programme compared to the EU. Despite some forecasting last year that the U.K. was doomed to failure by opting out of the EU programme we know that is of course a pile of horse manure.

Northern Ireland's first minister said the move to trigger Article 16 of the NI Protocol was an "act of hostility". In response the Taoiseach (Irish Prime Minister) Micheál Martin said, it was a mistake on the part of the European Commission to signal its intention to trigger Article 16 and lessons would have to be learned.

In other news the UK is applying to join Asia-Pacific free trade pact CPTPP. Sounds positive to me.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55871373

Let’s look forward and see how things pan out for the U.K. and the EU.