UK foreign aid budget to be cut. Yessss

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UK foreign aid budget to be cut. Yessss

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Post by Wines Of The World »

And about time. Give them nothing. Should be topping up the pensions and looking after our own.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics ... minic-raab
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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

It certainly needs reviewing when you hear of us sending money to China.
As for giving nothing that is very short sighted.

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The British Empire having pillaged untold wealth from its conquered colonies over centuries, now seems to negate any guilt of its past misdemeanours by any form of recompense. Best they get back to a 'hunter-gatherer' existence and shut off all the World with their small Island mentality!

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Post by Wight »

Very proud to be British and of our history.
None of the jealous commentators can change that πŸ™‚

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

Brinsley wrote: ↑
Fri 24 Jul 2020 5:32 pm
The British Empire having pillaged untold wealth from its conquered colonies over centuries, now seems to negate any guilt of its past misdemeanours by any form of recompense. Best they get back to a 'hunter-gatherer' existence and shut off all the World with their small Island mentality!
God forbid we ever forget any misdemeanors and thank god we have the likes of you reminding us daily.

I do enjoy this concept of selective collective guilt.

A few thousand Muslims around the world form death cults and murder innocent people and we are rightly told to remember that there are millions of peaceful Muslims.
Whereas a few thousand British people were involved in the slave trade 300 years ago while the rest of their countryman, including 99% of our descendants, starved and I need to feel guilty every day?

I do wonder whether the ordinary people of Africa feel they are any better off now they are independent. Africa remains rich in raw materials but the people still live in direst poverty. It has been half a century since we held any colonies there so when can we expect them to turn the corner and begin to thrive? Throwing money at it doesn't seem to do much good tbh.

Ethiopia has never been colonised but is still poor because they have been ravaged by civil wars.

And who should we compensate? Should we just send a large cheque and rely on the current president/s of the day not to use it to top up their Swiss bank accounts?

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Ethiopia has never been colonised but is still poor because they have been ravaged by civil wars.

I really do need to go back to school as the history teachers were telling me lies informing me that Ethiopia was once colonised by Italy!!!!!!!!!

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Post by Saddique »

Brinsley wrote: ↑
Fri 24 Jul 2020 6:37 pm
Ethiopia has never been colonised but is still poor because they have been ravaged by civil wars.

I really do need to go back to school as the history teachers were telling me lies informing me that Ethiopia was once colonised by Italy!!!!!!!!!
You are correct Brinsley Ethiopians were colonised by the Italians , It is a fact that the European countries colonised most of the known world at some stage in History. It is also a fact that genocide , slavery , exploitation took place in these colonised countries ie , America , Canada , Austrailia , New Zealand , Indian subcontinent ,Far East, Latin America and Africa ( that covers most of the world). History tells us a lot but knowledge of it is not known or taught widespread due to lack of education whether deliberate or not. Every nation and every people have a story to tell and 1 persons hero is another persons enemy. This remains true in present times. its best to agree to disagree as there are always 2 sides to a story. i see a lot of posts on here and each to his / her own. Sometimes you just cannot change the mentality of some people as its written in their DNA :)

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Re: UK foreign aid budget to be cut. Yessss

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Post by Deniz1 »

If you watch CNN they have loads of programmes about Africa. Huge new cities sky scrapers fast cars and and entrepreneurs. They should look after their own not wait for other countries to pour money in.

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Post by Wines Of The World »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote: ↑
Fri 24 Jul 2020 6:10 pm
Brinsley wrote: ↑
Fri 24 Jul 2020 5:32 pm
The British Empire having pillaged untold wealth from its conquered colonies over centuries, now seems to negate any guilt of its past misdemeanours by any form of recompense. Best they get back to a 'hunter-gatherer' existence and shut off all the World with their small Island mentality!
A few thousand Muslims around the world form death cults and murder innocent people and we are rightly told to remember that there are millions of peaceful Muslims.

A few thousand that's an under estimate. There's a few thousand just in the North of England raping and grooming little underaged white girls with impunity and they like to be called Asians or your a racist πŸ™πŸ™„
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Post by Wines Of The World »

Deniz1 wrote: ↑
Sat 25 Jul 2020 5:50 am
If you watch CNN they have loads of programmes about Africa. Huge new cities sky scrapers fast cars and and entrepreneurs. They should look after their own not wait for other countries to pour money in.
I'm in agreement 100%
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Re: UK foreign aid budget to be cut. Yessss

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Post by Wines Of The World »

Actually these cuts don't go far enough and after a little research 2.9 billion is only the tip of the iceberg.
Time for raab to get a real Backbone and stop playing around with the tax payers money
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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

Brinsley wrote: ↑
Fri 24 Jul 2020 6:37 pm


I really do need to go back to school as the history teachers were telling me lies informing me that Ethiopia was once colonised by Italy!!!!!!!!!
Ethiopia was invaded by Italy in 1936 until 1941.

Did your history teachers tell you France was colonised by Germany in 1940?

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Last edited by EnjoyingTheSun on Sat 25 Jul 2020 10:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Wines Of The World wrote: ↑
Sat 25 Jul 2020 7:08 am
Actually these cuts don't go far enough and after a little research 2.9 billion is only the tip of the iceberg.
Time for raab to get a real Backbone and stop playing around with the tax payers money
With regard to foreign aid should we be giving money to Pakistan to enter the space race or to China and India who are two of the fastest growing economies in the world? Of course not, they don't need it.

Should we give foreign aid to countries who are recovering from a drought or other natural disaster? Of course and I think most people want to judging by the generosity of the British during charity appeals.

Then comes the question should you help countries that are just not very well off?

I'm a great believer in charity begins at home but even if you take any charity or morality out of the equation, it makes economic sense for us to help poor countries.

1. If you get these countries on their feet they become better customers for what richer countries are selling.
2. If you don't help them then you will spend more on housing or stopping illegal economic migrants.

It is far more cost effective and helpful to these countries to help them in their own countries than with our virtue signalling method now.

Currently we take the best educated of their people who could and should be much needed doctors and suchlike in their own countries and often employ them as cleaners or working in a fast food restaurant in ours.

For those that can't or won't work we supply them with housing and enough benefits for them to afford to live in one of the most expensive countries in the world. How many could we help by using the money that built the Β£300,000 house that the family live in or the tens of thousands in benefits they take a year by the family staying put and us sending the money to their country of origin where the average wage is a few dollars a week?

The catch phrase of the left is the 1% who own the world etc etc, it is a sobering thought but the poorest person in Britain would be a member of the World's richest 1%

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote: ↑
Sat 25 Jul 2020 8:48 am
Saddique wrote: ↑
Sat 25 Jul 2020 3:58 am

You are correct Brinsley Ethiopians were colonised by the Italians , It is a fact that the European countries colonised most of the known world at some stage in History. It is also a fact that genocide , slavery....................
You don't seem to understand the difference between invasion and occupation and colonisation. Italy occupied Ethiopia for 5 years. What next, Argentina colonised the Falkland Islands in 1982?
It is obvious you don't understand because you use the other catch all soundbite, genocide. There was no planned genocide in colonised territories, they intended to exploit the people not kill them.

Oh by the way the Italians did more than most to rid Ethiopia of slavery.

https://blogs.loc.gov/law/2012/02/aboli ... -ethiopia/

Apart from that you were right.
Saddique wrote: ↑
Sat 25 Jul 2020 3:58 am

History tells us a lot but knowledge of it is not known or taught widespread due to lack of education whether deliberate or not. Every nation and every people have a story to tell and 1 persons hero is another persons enemy. This remains true in present times. its best to agree to disagree as there are always 2 sides to a story. i see a lot of posts on here and each to his / her own. Sometimes you just cannot change the mentality of some people as its written in their DNA :)
History can sometimes be interpreted in a couple of ways or at least the smaller picture eg one mans terrorist is another's freedom fighter.
That said you made 3 mistakes in your post. Ethiopia wasn't colonised by any true definition of the word, genocide wasn't necessarily a part of colonisation and slavery wasn't always a part of colonilisation.
You are very entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts.
Teachers should give you the facts and interpretations of those facts but these days they seem to push their own dogma.

Interestingly just the Ethiopian part of my past was erroneously nit picked out so I can only assume that yourself and Brinsley agree or at least can't challenge the rest of it? :)

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Post by Saddique »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote: ↑
Sat 25 Jul 2020 10:03 am
EnjoyingTheSun wrote: ↑
Sat 25 Jul 2020 8:48 am
Saddique wrote: ↑
Sat 25 Jul 2020 3:58 am

You are correct Brinsley Ethiopians were colonised by the Italians , It is a fact that the European countries colonised most of the known world at some stage in History. It is also a fact that genocide , slavery....................
You don't seem to understand the difference between invasion and occupation and colonisation. Italy occupied Ethiopia for 5 years. What next, Argentina colonised the Falkland Islands in 1982?
It is obvious you don't understand because you use the other catch all soundbite, genocide. There was no planned genocide in colonised territories, they intended to exploit the people not kill them.

Oh by the way the Italians did more than most to rid Ethiopia of slavery.

https://blogs.loc.gov/law/2012/02/aboli ... -ethiopia/

Apart from that you were right.
Saddique wrote: ↑
Sat 25 Jul 2020 3:58 am

History tells us a lot but knowledge of it is not known or taught widespread due to lack of education whether deliberate or not. Every nation and every people have a story to tell and 1 persons hero is another persons enemy. This remains true in present times. its best to agree to disagree as there are always 2 sides to a story. i see a lot of posts on here and each to his / her own. Sometimes you just cannot change the mentality of some people as its written in their DNA :)
History can sometimes be interpreted in a couple of ways or at least the smaller picture eg one mans terrorist is another's freedom fighter.
That said you made 3 mistakes in your post. Ethiopia wasn't colonised by any true definition of the word, genocide wasn't necessarily a part of colonisation and slavery wasn't always a part of colonilisation.
You are very entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts.
Teachers should give you the facts and interpretations of those facts but these days they seem to push their own dogma.

Interestingly just the Ethiopian part of my past was erroneously nit picked out so I can only assume that yourself and Brinsley agree or at least can't challenge the rest of it? :)
Not looking for an argument but pointing out that whether you call it an invasion and occupation or colonisation, these are mere words which effectively share similar traits of behaviour by the imposing force that historians have chosen to name. 99% of the time it is an unwelcome and unwanted presence by the local population so we can call it what we want. To the Ethiopian the Italians were an unwanted presence and for that history writers can call it what they choose. This does not mean we all accept the common term they have branded it.
Genocide may not be a part of colonisation ideology but it did happen according to Historical Facts. Red Indians in Americas, Aborigines in Austrailia, Maouris in New Zealand, Indians in Goa India, Boers in South Africa, Mau Mau massacres in Kenya , Amritsar Massacre in Punjab and the Famine in India which led to Millions of people dying as food was diverted form India. Genocide comes in many forms but results in deaths.

Slavery may not be a part of colonisation but again when you control and subjugate and rule over the local population without their consent , it is a form of slavery. Lets not dress up the word slavery as only being in chains and shackles.
I do not want to bring religion into this but the perpetrators that commited these acts claimed they were Christians and even forced religion this upon the local people. So slavery and or genocide comes part and parcel of colonisation.
These are not my own opinions but rather a statement of facts from History. whether you agree it was right or wrong, now that is a matter of opinion as you say we are all entitled to. Facts however do not change and thats all i am merely stating without prejudice.

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Re: UK foreign aid budget to be cut. Yessss

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Post by Saddique »

Wines Of The World wrote: ↑
Sat 25 Jul 2020 7:01 am
EnjoyingTheSun wrote: ↑
Fri 24 Jul 2020 6:10 pm
Brinsley wrote: ↑
Fri 24 Jul 2020 5:32 pm
The British Empire having pillaged untold wealth from its conquered colonies over centuries, now seems to negate any guilt of its past misdemeanours by any form of recompense. Best they get back to a 'hunter-gatherer' existence and shut off all the World with their small Island mentality!
A few thousand Muslims around the world form death cults and murder innocent people and we are rightly told to remember that there are millions of peaceful Muslims.

A few thousand that's an under estimate. There's a few thousand just in the North of England raping and grooming little underaged white girls with impunity and they like to be called Asians or your a racist πŸ™πŸ™„
Why are they referred to as "Muslims" anyway ? just because these perverts may come from a Muslim background why bring religion into it....They are Asian Men simple......Just like the Clergymen , Catholics or Protestants who groom young boys into committing heinous acts----- no one states that they are "Christians" as that is stating the obvious.
When you brand something or someone by their religion then that in my opinion is wrong . The Groomers up North are Asian men or in the Churches are white men period. It is not necessary to say it is muslim men or christian men........Mankind in it self is messed up........I am pleased to see that the younger generation of people Black , Brown , White are more tolerant and accommodating with each others differences......so in twenty years time hopefully the Kibkom forum posts will be written by more socially , religiously and equitable mindsets.

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Post by Saddique »

Wines Of The World wrote: ↑
Sat 25 Jul 2020 7:01 am
EnjoyingTheSun wrote: ↑
Fri 24 Jul 2020 6:10 pm
Brinsley wrote: ↑
Fri 24 Jul 2020 5:32 pm
The British Empire having pillaged untold wealth from its conquered colonies over centuries, now seems to negate any guilt of its past misdemeanours by any form of recompense. Best they get back to a 'hunter-gatherer' existence and shut off all the World with their small Island mentality!
A few thousand Muslims around the world form death cults and murder innocent people and we are rightly told to remember that there are millions of peaceful Muslims.

A few thousand that's an under estimate. There's a few thousand just in the North of England raping and grooming little underaged white girls with impunity and they like to be called Asians or your a racist πŸ™πŸ™„
Maybe we should have called the Football coaches / managers who molested all those young boys in football training sessions over the last few decades ,"Christian Coaches" . Religion has nothing to do with the perverse mindset of these Groomers and if anything its actually the Religious belief that should have deterred them from these sickly acts !

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

Saddique wrote: ↑
Sat 25 Jul 2020 2:10 pm

Not looking for an argument but pointing out that whether you call it an invasion and occupation or colonisation, these are mere words which effectively share similar traits of behaviour by the imposing force that historians have chosen to name. 99% of the time it is an unwelcome and unwanted presence by the local population so we can call it what we want. To the Ethiopian the Italians were an unwanted presence and for that history writers can call it what they choose. This does not mean we all accept the common term they have branded it.

Some words are not mere words although the way racist, fascist etc are thrown around now they are becoming just words which is dangerous.
Slavery and genocide are probably the two most evil things that humans have inflicted on each other but it doesn’t mean that they are the same thing. Slave traders and owners didn’t want to destroy or kill Africans they wanted to fully exploit them.

My mother in law was very much an unwelcome and unwanted presence every Christmas for far more than 5 years could I call her a colonialist?

Colonialisation is not a 5 year occupation after an invasion. Again did Germany colonalise France during the Second World War? Italy probably intended to ultimately colonalise Ethiopia but you can’t colonise a country in 5 years during a war, it’s just not possible. You have to move your own people there to settle and I don’t just mean soldiers or a government. You have to change the education system, the political system, the legal system, the language etc etc. It’s not just keeping the locals down after an invasion. Britain was certainly colonalised by the Romans and The Normans but then they weren’t in Britain for just a handful of years.

Genocide is the deliberate act to erase/murder an entire race or people. The Red Indians, Aborigines and Maoris would qualify but it isn’t genocide to put down an uprising such as The Mau Mau uprising, no matter how ruthlessly. Or to not deal with a natural disaster as well or compassionately as you could.
I’m not lessening the horror of The Amritsar Massacre but it wasn’t genocide by any definition of the word, you can't committ genocide in ten minutes.

I assume you are referring to the Bengal famine during the war? Maybe Britain could have done more while at war, there are different views on that but, at worst, indifference to a natural disaster isn’t genocide.

As for religion, Christianity has done some horrendous things trying to force the beliefs on other people but they aren’t the only religion to do that. Islam has done it in the past and some intend to do it in the future. They are no stranger to taking slaves either.
[/quote]

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

Saddique wrote: ↑
Sat 25 Jul 2020 2:36 pm
Wines Of The World wrote: ↑
Sat 25 Jul 2020 7:01 am
EnjoyingTheSun wrote: ↑
Fri 24 Jul 2020 6:10 pm

A few thousand Muslims around the world form death cults and murder innocent people and we are rightly told to remember that there are millions of peaceful Muslims.

A few thousand that's an under estimate. There's a few thousand just in the North of England raping and grooming little underaged white girls with impunity and they like to be called Asians or your a racist πŸ™πŸ™„
Maybe we should have called the Football coaches / managers who molested all those young boys in football training sessions over the last few decades ,"Christian Coaches" . Religion has nothing to do with the perverse mindset of these Groomers and if anything its actually the Religious belief that should have deterred them from these sickly acts !
I'd appreciate if you could put correct quote marks in, because the comment "A few thousand that's an under estimate. There's a few thousand just in the North of England raping and grooming little underaged white girls with impunity and they like to be called Asians or your a racist πŸ™πŸ™„" looks as if I wrote it and I didn't.

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

Saddique wrote: ↑
Sat 25 Jul 2020 2:29 pm

Why are they referred to as "Muslims" anyway ? just because these perverts may come from a Muslim background why bring religion into it....They are Asian Men simple......Just like the Clergymen , Catholics or Protestants who groom young boys into committing heinous acts----- no one states that they are "Christians" as that is stating the obvious.
When you brand something or someone by their religion then that in my opinion is wrong . The Groomers up North are Asian men or in the Churches are white men period.
It does seem that the child grooming gangs seem to come from certain regions. There have been too many cases not to acknowledge that there is a problem there and to my knowledge that problem doesn't extend to Hindus, Sikhs or other regions to any great degree.
Similarly there does seem to be a problem of child abuse within the actual Catholic church so it wouldn't be fair to tar all religious groups as having that same problem.

Britain and France are as European as Germany but Germany carried out the holocaust not Europe.

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Post by Saddique »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote: ↑
Sat 25 Jul 2020 3:07 pm
Saddique wrote: ↑
Sat 25 Jul 2020 2:36 pm
Wines Of The World wrote: ↑
Sat 25 Jul 2020 7:01 am


Maybe we should have called the Football coaches / managers who molested all those young boys in football training sessions over the last few decades ,"Christian Coaches" . Religion has nothing to do with the perverse mindset of these Groomers and if anything its actually the Religious belief that should have deterred them from these sickly acts !
I'd appreciate if you could put correct quote marks in, because the comment "A few thousand that's an under estimate. There's a few thousand just in the North of England raping and grooming little underaged white girls with impunity and they like to be called Asians or your a racist πŸ™πŸ™„" looks as if I wrote it and I didn't.
Apologies this part was not written by you ( Enjoying the Sun" but by another poster hence i was replying back to that post.

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

Saddique wrote: ↑
Sat 25 Jul 2020 3:54 pm

Apologies this part was not written by you ( Enjoying the Sun" but by another poster hence i was replying back to that post.
No problem, I realise it was an error. I don’t mind getting called on my own comments but......

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Post by Nc2016 »

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dan ... fghanistan

It's a lot more scary than people would be led to believe.

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Post by Saddique »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote: ↑
Sat 25 Jul 2020 3:03 pm
Saddique wrote: ↑
Sat 25 Jul 2020 2:10 pm

Not looking for an argument but pointing out that whether you call it an invasion and occupation or colonisation, these are mere words which effectively share similar traits of behaviour by the imposing force that historians have chosen to name. 99% of the time it is an unwelcome and unwanted presence by the local population so we can call it what we want. To the Ethiopian the Italians were an unwanted presence and for that history writers can call it what they choose. This does not mean we all accept the common term they have branded it.

Some words are not mere words although the way racist, fascist etc are thrown around now they are becoming just words which is dangerous.
Slavery and genocide are probably the two most evil things that humans have inflicted on each other but it doesn’t mean that they are the same thing. Slave traders and owners didn’t want to destroy or kill Africans they wanted to fully exploit them.

My mother in law was very much an unwelcome and unwanted presence every Christmas for far more than 5 years could I call her a colonialist?
Thats depends on what rules and restictions she may have put upon you :)


Colonialisation is not a 5 year occupation after an invasion. Again did Germany colonalise France during the Second World War? Italy probably intended to ultimately colonalise Ethiopia but you can’t colonise a country in 5 years during a war, it’s just not possible. You have to move your own people there to settle and I don’t just mean soldiers or a government. You have to change the education system, the political system, the legal system, the language etc etc. It’s not just keeping the locals down after an invasion. Britain was certainly colonalised by the Romans and The Normans but then they weren’t in Britain for just a handful of years.

Genocide is the deliberate act to erase/murder an entire race or people. The Red Indians, Aborigines and Maoris would qualify but it isn’t genocide to put down an uprising such as The Mau Mau uprising, no matter how ruthlessly. Or to not deal with a natural disaster as well or compassionately as you could.
I’m not lessening the horror of The Amritsar Massacre but it wasn’t genocide by any definition of the word, you can't committ genocide in ten minutes.

I assume you are referring to the Bengal famine during the war? Maybe Britain could have done more while at war, there are different views on that but, at worst, indifference to a natural disaster isn’t genocide.

As for religion, Christianity has done some horrendous things trying to force the beliefs on other people but they aren’t the only religion to do that. Islam has done it in the past and some intend to do it in the future. They are no stranger to taking slaves either.
[/quote]
Again Both religions do not teach horrendous beliefs but its mankind who twist and manipulate the scriptures to their benefit and then impose them.
Islam categorically forbids slavery in any form or shape , however i agree men from that faith have indulged in slavery.
so my conclusion is its not the religion at fault but the people who claim to represent it

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Post by Saddique »

Saddique wrote: ↑
Sat 25 Jul 2020 4:23 pm
EnjoyingTheSun wrote: ↑
Sat 25 Jul 2020 3:03 pm
Saddique wrote: ↑
Sat 25 Jul 2020 2:10 pm



"My mother in law was very much an unwelcome and unwanted presence every Christmas for far more than 5 years could I call her a colonialist? "

That depends on what rules and restrictions she may have put upon you when visiting or imposing :)
Besides it was only once a year for christmas and you probably got a woolly hat out of it :)

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

Saddique wrote: ↑
Sat 25 Jul 2020 4:23 pm

Again Both religions do not teach horrendous beliefs but its mankind who twist and manipulate the scriptures to their benefit and then impose them.
Islam categorically forbids slavery in any form or shape , however i agree men from that faith have indulged in slavery.
so my conclusion is its not the religion at fault but the people who claim to represent it
For sure it is man's interpretation that is the biggest problem but then man has created all of these religions and everyone thinks theirs is the best one and they are doing you a service to push you into it.

I don't buy into the whole vegetarianism bit but I can understand that if someone sincerely believes it will make you healthier then I guess it would be irresponsible of them not to promote it to everyone.

I am a confirmed atheist so don't buy into any religions as I believe whether you do or do not believe in a higher power you don't have to follow a particular religion to do that. Basic kindness to others doesn't have to be guided by a religion.
Many religious dietary laws were at the time good practice/common sense. Back in ancient time when you struggled to keep food fresh for any length of time and or lived in warm climates then pork or shellfish were very sensible things to generally steer clear of.

I particularly like Ricky Gervais defense of his atheism. He pointed out that there are hundreds of different gods and the only difference between him and someone religious is he believe in one less than they do.

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With regard to the paying of reparations to atone for our sins of colonialism and or slavery.
Obviously some feel very strongly about this, some like me don't.

So to help assuage the guilt of some I expect that they will want to make some personal reparations. Personally I don't so I don't think that my taxes ought to go on this but like with tax there is nothing to stop you voluntarily paying more.

Forget charitable contributions like comic relief, oxfam etc, I make those, and after all if our government decided we were going to pay billions to say Ghana in reparations for slavery they would pay it directly to their government.

So if anyone wishes to make a personal payment to an African country please let me know and I will find out where you need to send your money.
I will of course expect you to post a receipt on here so as we can all see just how guilt ridden and virtuous you are.

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Post by Saddique »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote: ↑
Sat 25 Jul 2020 4:39 pm
Saddique wrote: ↑
Sat 25 Jul 2020 4:23 pm

Again Both religions do not teach horrendous beliefs but its mankind who twist and manipulate the scriptures to their benefit and then impose them.
Islam categorically forbids slavery in any form or shape , however i agree men from that faith have indulged in slavery.
so my conclusion is its not the religion at fault but the people who claim to represent it
For sure it is man's interpretation that is the biggest problem but then man has created all of these religions and everyone thinks theirs is the best one and they are doing you a service to push you into it.

I don't buy into the whole vegetarianism bit but I can understand that if someone sincerely believes it will make you healthier then I guess it would be irresponsible of them not to promote it to everyone.

I am a confirmed atheist so don't buy into any religions as I believe whether you do or do not believe in a higher power you don't have to follow a particular religion to do that. Basic kindness to others doesn't have to be guided by a religion.
Many religious dietary laws were at the time good practice/common sense. Back in ancient time when you struggled to keep food fresh for any length of time and or lived in warm climates then pork or shellfish were very sensible things to generally steer clear of.

I particularly like Ricky Gervais defense of his atheism. He pointed out that there are hundreds of different gods and the only difference between him and someone religious is he believe in one less than they do.
Humans have the teeth of Herbivores and Carnivores so our body can handle both.
Lions eat meat but not Grass and Cows eat Grass and not meat.
Humans have an advantage on their diet.

Ricky Gervais has made 1 mistake in his defense of Atheism.........."there are hundreds of different gods and the only difference between him and someone religious is he believes in one less than they do.

" Then if he met a Hindu who believes in 100 Gods , then by default he believes in 99 ( 1 less than them )

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Post by Hedge-fund »

Wines Of The World wrote: ↑
Sat 25 Jul 2020 7:08 am
Actually these cuts don't go far enough and after a little research 2.9 billion is only the tip of the iceberg.
Time for raab to get a real Backbone and stop playing around with the tax payers money

I don't think this is a cut per se.

It's a set percentage of gdp and in the present climate gdp has declined but the percentage has remained the same.

Either way, there's an unsavoury undercurrent to these comments which are a little embarrassing.

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Post by Brinsley »

Maybe we should discuss the current political situation in Eritrea!!

That should bring out the real modern historians not having to rely on digital dodgy information sites i.e.Wikipedia, Et al

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

Brinsley wrote: ↑
Sat 25 Jul 2020 11:12 pm
Maybe we should discuss the current political situation in Eritrea!!

That should bring out the real modern historians not having to rely on digital dodgy information sites i.e.Wikipedia, Et al
Please point out where I have been factually inaccurate?
I made a post and you zeroed in on one minor aspect of it and decided that Ethiopia had been colonised because you didn’t understand what colonisation was.

Anyhow have you decided what country you are going to make your voluntary reparations payments to?

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

Brinsley wrote: ↑
Sat 25 Jul 2020 11:12 pm
dodgy information sites i.e.Wikipedia, Et al
Personally I only use wikipedia to confirm dates etc as activists/fanatics alter facts on it.

https://thegerasites.wordpress.com/2016 ... es-choice/

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

Saddique wrote: ↑
Sat 25 Jul 2020 5:07 pm

Ricky Gervais has made 1 mistake in his defense of Atheism.........."there are hundreds of different gods and the only difference between him and someone religious is he believes in one less than they do.

" Then if he met a Hindu who believes in 100 Gods , then by default he believes in 99 ( 1 less than them )
I don't know an awful lot about Hinduism but do know that there are several sects. When you say gods, are there various gods but only one supreme being as such, but maybe called different things by different sects? For example is what Vishnu is to one sect what Brahma is to another e.g. their version of the supreme being?
Hence Gervais point stands up by definition, eg he believes in one less supreme being than someone else.

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When i say gods , yes they actually have many gods, and each an individual deity and also thousands of sects. No Vishnu and Brahma are separate beings according to their theology.
However In reality according to their original scriptures there is only one supreme being / god, but again mankind has made many.
Good luck to Ricky

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Man has made god(s) in his own image.... :wink:

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Theres not a great deal out there filthier than the catholic church,they have spent many millions trying to hush up the abuse within the catholic church for many years, but when you talk about the perverted priests no one calls you a racist !

Same goes with the politicians, white ones and Pakistani ones,again when they get called out no one accuses you of racism.

I say Pakistani Muslim men ,and that is not because of religion,i would not like to tar a innocent Pakistani Christian man with the same brush.

Why must i bring religion into it you might say,I'm not brining religion into it I'm just stating actual facts so that there can be no mistakes.

And yes within the Muslim Pakistani community there are huge problems that need addressing with regards to grooming,recognising the fact that they have a problem would be a great start, They, by they i mean the Pakistani Muslim community, thats another reason i write the correct description of these abusers so the reader does not get confused and starts to think some Chinese or Vietnamese or Filipino is being spoken about,as when you say Asian i would never think your talking about a Pakistani Muslim man.

I do not think i will ever describe these abusers as Asian,White or brown men, they will always have an understandable description from me,just as it would if it was packaged.

Its Turned into a very interesting read
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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

Trying to see the relevance to the foreign aid budget being cut tbh

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Post by sophie »

You and me both "Enjoying the Sun".

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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

sophie wrote: ↑
Tue 28 Jul 2020 8:26 pm
You and me both "Enjoying the Sun".
The big question is do you believe in giving foreign aid at all.
Personally I do but to countries that need it. China I think seems to be coping.
I do think that when your country needs to cut back as the UK will to pay our covid bill then cuts will need to be made across the board and foreign aid is an obvious one. As foreign aid to me is a richer country giving a helping hand to poorer countries then when you are skint those contributions will have to be slashed.
I do think that there needs to be a review of what the recipients are doing with it. I don’t see nuclear arms or space exploration as an essential personally.

I don’t think we should be giving the money out of any sense of guilt but because it is the right thing to do.
The problem with giving aid as some sort of reparations to our former colonies is that technically we should then send money to America but not Ethiopia

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Post by Wines Of The World »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote: ↑
Tue 28 Jul 2020 5:53 pm
Trying to see the relevance to the foreign aid budget being cut tbh
But above you was discussing religion and racism and fascism with saddique so i thought id comment especially where someone said why bring religion into it when describing a nonce-groomer-abuser-and all the other fancy names people have for them.

I could not see where anyone used religion other than me when commenting about the filthy catholic church.
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Post by EnjoyingTheSun »

Wines Of The World wrote: ↑
Wed 29 Jul 2020 8:07 am

But above you was discussing religion and racism and fascism with saddique so i thought id comment especially where someone said why bring religion into it when describing a nonce-groomer-abuser-and all the other fancy names people have for them.

I could not see where anyone used religion other than me when commenting about the filthy catholic church.
The 9th post/message had you shoe horning the child grooming gangs in.

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Post by Wines Of The World »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote: ↑
Wed 29 Jul 2020 8:15 am
Wines Of The World wrote: ↑
Wed 29 Jul 2020 8:07 am

But above you was discussing religion and racism and fascism with saddique so i thought id comment especially where someone said why bring religion into it when describing a nonce-groomer-abuser-and all the other fancy names people have for them.

I could not see where anyone used religion other than me when commenting about the filthy catholic church.
The 9th post/message had you shoe horning the child grooming gangs in.
Your right actually in response to your post regarding a few thousand Muslim death squads around the world, more like a few hundred thousand death squads.
Shoe horned,no of course not i wouldn't shoe horn it in anywhere,i talk about this filth all of the time,its got to be spoken about to understand the epidemic and find a way to stop it in all walks of life.
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Post by Wines Of The World »

Saddique wrote: ↑
Sat 25 Jul 2020 2:29 pm
Wines Of The World wrote: ↑
Sat 25 Jul 2020 7:01 am
EnjoyingTheSun wrote: ↑
Fri 24 Jul 2020 6:10 pm

A few thousand Muslims around the world form death cults and murder innocent people and we are rightly told to remember that there are millions of peaceful Muslims.

A few thousand that's an under estimate. There's a few thousand just in the North of England raping and grooming little underaged white girls with impunity and they like to be called Asians or your a racist πŸ™πŸ™„
Why are they referred to as "Muslims" anyway ? just because these perverts may come from a Muslim background why bring religion into it....They are Asian Men simple......Just like the Clergymen , Catholics or Protestants who groom young boys into committing heinous acts----- no one states that they are "Christians" as that is stating the obvious.
When you brand something or someone by their religion then that in my opinion is wrong . The Groomers up North are Asian men or in the Churches are white men period. It is not necessary to say it is muslim men or christian men........Mankind in it self is messed up........I am pleased to see that the younger generation of people Black , Brown , White are more tolerant and accommodating with each others differences......so in twenty years time hopefully the Kibkom forum posts will be written by more socially , religiously and equitable mindsets.
Because they are Pakistani Muslim men possibly following the religion of Islam, isn't that a better description than trying to mix things up with the silly word Asian as a description which could be misleading,if you describe these groomers as asian, people could start to think so which country are they from.
At least when you describe the abuser properly the reader does not become confused.
A priest is named a priest and we know which religion he represents, just as a Methodist minister, we know 99% that if you hear the word Vicar it would be to do with the church of England so Christians. This is why you must describe an abuser by its correct description.

After all if your puppy was born in a stable would you call it a horse or red rum ?
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Wines Of The World wrote: ↑
Wed 29 Jul 2020 8:22 am

Your right actually in response to your post regarding a few thousand Muslim death squads around the world, more like a few hundred thousand death squads.
I simply bought it up to illustrate the hypocrisy of selective collective guilt. I don’t think it is fair to blame every Britain for colonialism or slavery in the same way as you wouldn’t blame every Muslim for death cults or all Pakistani men for child grooming gangs.

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Post by Wines Of The World »

EnjoyingTheSun wrote: ↑
Wed 29 Jul 2020 8:46 am
Wines Of The World wrote: ↑
Wed 29 Jul 2020 8:22 am

Your right actually in response to your post regarding a few thousand Muslim death squads around the world, more like a few hundred thousand death squads.
I simply bought it up to illustrate the hypocrisy of selective collective guilt. I don’t think it is fair to blame every Britain for colonialism or slavery in the same way as you wouldn’t blame every Muslim for death cults or all Pakistani men for child grooming gangs.
your correct .

But a full description is always good
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Post by Saddique »

Wines Of The World wrote: ↑
Wed 29 Jul 2020 8:32 am
Saddique wrote: ↑
Sat 25 Jul 2020 2:29 pm
Wines Of The World wrote: ↑
Sat 25 Jul 2020 7:01 am


Why are they referred to as "Muslims" anyway ? just because these perverts may come from a Muslim background why bring religion into it....They are Asian Men simple......Just like the Clergymen , Catholics or Protestants who groom young boys into committing heinous acts----- no one states that they are "Christians" as that is stating the obvious.
When you brand something or someone by their religion then that in my opinion is wrong . The Groomers up North are Asian men or in the Churches are white men period. It is not necessary to say it is muslim men or christian men........Mankind in it self is messed up........I am pleased to see that the younger generation of people Black , Brown , White are more tolerant and accommodating with each others differences......so in twenty years time hopefully the Kibkom forum posts will be written by more socially , religiously and equitable mindsets.
Because they are Pakistani Muslim men possibly following the religion of Islam, isn't that a better description than trying to mix things up with the silly word Asian as a description which could be misleading,if you describe these groomers as asian, people could start to think so which country are they from.
At least when you describe the abuser properly the reader does not become confused.
A priest is named a priest and we know which religion he represents, just as a Methodist minister, we know 99% that if you hear the word Vicar it would be to do with the church of England so Christians. This is why you must describe an abuser by its correct description.

After all if your puppy was born in a stable would you call it a horse or red rum ?
Yes that is a better description to say Pakistani muslim men if your aim is to describe their origins and the religion at the same time, but thats not what you originally said and besides i dont see why the word muslim has to be brought into it in your detailed description anyway. Yes they are Pakistani and thats enough to know for many people . How do you know these Pakistani men are even religious and also they can be either a Muslim , Christian or an Atheist .......you dont know So dont assume !

In the TRNC or anywhere else for that matter , you would probably appear as a white man by the locals or is that too Vague of a description for your liking ...Maybe a better description would be an English Christian White Man ? so according to your mindset its a better description to name the origin and religion together .... however i dont think its necessary to say English Christian men or Pakistani Muslim men or Indian Hindu men or Tibetan Buddhist Men or Brazilian Christian Men etc etc .........Hope you see my point ?

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β€œArabs, for example, are thought of as camel-riding, terroristic, hook-nosed, venal lechers whose undeserved wealth is an affront to real civilization. Always there lurks the assumption that although the Western consumer belongs to a numerical minority, he is entitled either to own or to expend (or both) the majority of the world resources. Why? Because he, unlike the Oriental, is a true human being.”
― Edward W. Said, Orientalism

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Post by Wines Of The World »

Saddique wrote: ↑
Thu 30 Jul 2020 7:00 pm
Wines Of The World wrote: ↑
Wed 29 Jul 2020 8:32 am
Saddique wrote: ↑
Sat 25 Jul 2020 2:29 pm

Because they are Pakistani Muslim men possibly following the religion of Islam, isn't that a better description than trying to mix things up with the silly word Asian as a description which could be misleading,if you describe these groomers as asian, people could start to think so which country are they from.
At least when you describe the abuser properly the reader does not become confused.
A priest is named a priest and we know which religion he represents, just as a Methodist minister, we know 99% that if you hear the word Vicar it would be to do with the church of England so Christians. This is why you must describe an abuser by its correct description.

After all if your puppy was born in a stable would you call it a horse or red rum ?
Yes that is a better description to say Pakistani muslim men if your aim is to describe their origins and the religion at the same time, but thats not what you originally said and besides i dont see why the word muslim has to be brought into it in your detailed description anyway. Yes they are Pakistani and thats enough to know for many people . How do you know these Pakistani men are even religious and also they can be either a Muslim , Christian or an Atheist .......you dont know So dont assume !

In the TRNC or anywhere else for that matter , you would probably appear as a white man by the locals or is that too Vague of a description for your liking ...Maybe a better description would be an English Christian White Man ? so according to your mindset its a better description to name the origin and religion together .... however i dont think its necessary to say English Christian men or Pakistani Muslim men or Indian Hindu men or Tibetan Buddhist Men or Brazilian Christian Men etc etc .........Hope you see my point ?
I see your opinion and respect it. I'll carry on with my way of describing these animals and my opinion. Have a grand day sad ique
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THEN ITS FAIR TO ADD Nearly 90% of those convicted of child abuse offences and on the sex offenders register are CHRISTIAN/ MAINLY PROTESTANT white men and not just whete men. Similarly the son of the Defender of the Protestant Faith is has allegedly had sexual relations with underage girls...Definately a better way of broadcasting news.
Out of curiosity, why live in a muslim country?

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