If the UK leaves the EU.

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chiangbill
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If the UK leaves the EU.

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Post by turtle »

Hope so ...

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Post by MoonageDaydream »

Well I hope NOT. There are over 2 million UK citizens living in the other 27 countries of the EU, do really want to see them forced to go back to the UK? And when north Cyprus is in the EU there will be a few people here who won't be sitting outside in the sun in mid-February either!

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Post by Brend »

Why would people be forced to go back to the UK ?

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Post by Munchkin »

MoonageDaydream wrote:Well I hope NOT. There are over 2 million UK citizens living in the other 27 countries of the EU, do really want to see them forced to go back to the UK? And when north Cyprus is in the EU there will be a few people here who won't be sitting outside in the sun in mid-February either!

There are WELL over 2.5 million E.U economic migrants in the U.K. alone the U.K. will collapse if this carries on.

Why the hell would any country want to be controlled by Nazi Europe ? I hope and pray the U.K. votes to come out then maybe all the E.U. rubbish will be thrown out they have ruined the U.K. it makes me sick that a lot of the towns and cities are now no go areas for the English people especially in central London.

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Post by Keithcaley »

Brend wrote:Why would people be forced to go back to the UK ?
"My understanding (which may be flawed ) is: 'EU Countries are obliged to allow citizens of other EU Countries to reside there' but there is no such obligation towards people from Countries which are not in the EU.

However, as TRNC is currently not in the EU, and still allows us to stay on a 'Visitor's Visa' (or perhaps without, if you're over 60) then I can't imagine that that particular policy would change. Mind you, in the crazy world of Cyprus politics, anything could happen!

It's anyone's guess really, the only thing that is certain is that the situation will cause a lot of uncertainty and worry...

But I don't want to worry you

**Addendum**

I just spotted this article in the (Greek Cypriot) Cyprus Mail, by Alper Ali Riza who is a Queen’s Counsel and a part time judge in the UK - so he should know what he's talking about. It puts a whole fresh set of considerations into the equation!

As there's not very much that I can do about it, I think that, I'll just follow the advice given in the song,: "Be Happy, Don't Worry"

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Post by jacob »

MoonageDaydream wrote:Well I hope NOT. There are over 2 million UK citizens living in the other 27 countries of the EU, do really want to see them forced to go back to the UK? And when north Cyprus is in the EU there will be a few people here who won't be sitting outside in the sun in mid-February either!

So you are saying that Spain will tell all the UK expats to leave, ridiculous thinking, of course they wouldn't, that is scaremongering.

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Post by waddo »

If us EU citizens who live here on a permanent basis cease to become EU citizens because the UK drops out of the EU it will create a problem but if the same laws apply to the North as apply to the South - this on the proviso that the North and South shake on a deal and the North becomes fully in the EU - then the requirements will remain the same as now for any NON EU citizen wishing to reside here on a permanent basis.

Basically, the most important requirements are:
The applicant has enough money to cover all expenses of all members of his family
This money come from abroad
This money come from legal sources
This income is secured, reliable and consistent on a long run and this income will be maintained in time

For a single applicant you need 9,568.17 euro's income per year and a further 4,613.22 euro's per year for every dependent. So, man and wife living BUT NOT WORKING here you will need around £11K a year proven income.

The laws for people living and working are much different.

Its all available on the various EU web sites and lots of information on the South side web sites as well - go forth and look.
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Post by brian24001 »

Plenty of 'Non-EU' here already from Turkey, Bulgaria, Russia, RSA, Nigeria etc etc..

So what is the problem likely to be?
The wife keeps complaining I never listen to a word she says ............. or something like that.

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Post by fatouche »

Munchkin, which areas in Central London are no go areas for the English ? And what do you mean by English exactly?

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Post by brian24001 »

Keithcaley wrote: ................ Queen’s Counsel and a part time judge in the UK - so he should know what he's talking about.
Is that in the same way that Cherie Blair QC knew what she was talking about representing the Orams?
The wife keeps complaining I never listen to a word she says ............. or something like that.

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Post by kaiserphil »

MoonageDaydream wrote:Well I hope NOT. There are over 2 million UK citizens living in the other 27 countries of the EU, do really want to see them forced to go back to the UK? And when north Cyprus is in the EU there will be a few people here who won't be sitting outside in the sun in mid-February either!
They will not be forced to go back to the UK, I for instance would simply have to register in a different way as a foreigner in Germany.

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Post by kerry 6138 »

Cypriots living in the UK are eligible to vote in the referendum, pity thats not reciprocated here in the north.

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Post by erol »

kerry 6138 wrote:Cypriots living in the UK are eligible to vote in the referendum, pity thats not reciprocated here in the north.
Those eligible to vote in the referendum are
adults from the age of 18, Irish and Commonwealth citizens resident in the UK, and British citizens who have lived abroad for less than 15 years.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ens-abroad

I am eligible to vote as I left the UK less than 15 years ago. I am in the process of registering to vote as a UK citizen living overseas for less than 15 years.

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Post by Keithcaley »

brian24001 wrote:
Keithcaley wrote: ................ Queen’s Counsel and a part time judge in the UK - so he should know what he's talking about.
Is that in the same way that Cherie Blair QC knew what she was talking about representing the Orams?
Fair comment!

I should have added "...compared to me"

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Post by Hammerhead »

brian24001 wrote:
Keithcaley wrote: ................ Queen’s Counsel and a part time judge in the UK - so he should know what he's talking about.
Is that in the same way that Cherie Blair QC knew what she was talking about representing the Orams?
since when has a uk judge spoke sense!!!!

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Post by waddo »

Has anyone who has not voted in the last 15 years - regardless of how many of them have been spent living outside of the UK - tried to register to vote yet? Just wondering as we were not registered to vote for 6 years before we left, due to constant house/job moves and have lived here for nearly 9 years now. I did attempt to register but with no luck.
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Post by kerry 6138 »

To register as an overseas voter, you must have been registered in a UK constituency within the last 15 years. You can apply to register to vote at http://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote

Who will be able to vote?

British, Irish and Commonwealth citizens over 18 who are resident in the UK, along with UK nationals who have lived overseas for less than 15 years. Members of the House of Lords and Commonwealth citizens in Gibraltar will also be eligible, unlike in a general election. Citizens from EU countries - apart from Ireland, Malta and Cyprus - will not get a vote.

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Post by waddo »

That was the information I came up with as well - effectively it means that we can not vote because we have not been registered for the past 15 years - regardless of where we lived. Just thought it was another little bit of None-Information that the Government are so good at when they said you could vote if you lived overseas for less than 15 years - then of course there is the small print!!!!
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Post by sophie »

Talking to someone this lunchtime who asked me if I had seen the registration form Answer was no? "so how do they know whether you have been in TRNC/Cyprus for 15 or less or not"

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Post by waddo »

Filled in the register to vote info this afternoon - now I wait to see if I am acceptable as a tax paying British subject who filled in the forms in 2007 to say I was leaving the UK forever and never to return - the same forms that people should have filled in when they retired here but probably never did, no complaints as it is everyone's choice I suppose?

Will post any reply that may filter through.
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Post by David »

Boris wants out !!

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Post by mikelapta »

That's it then....if Boris wants out.then it is time to vote 'YES'.....................

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Post by turtle »

Is that yes to get out or yes to stay in ?

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Post by cyprusgaz »

Its maybe a yes to stay in from me. I'm a simple soul as my good lady would call me. I understand little of politics and as a result I am resigned to believe in the good character of the great. Do I go with team Bozo Boris and his gang IBS, The Honourable George Galloway, The worm that would be Gove and Nigella Fromage. Leave it with me whilst I ponder.

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Post by waddo »

If Boris wants out then I am happy to pay his fare to a non EU country just to get rid of him! Guess I should plan on making a BIG shopping trip to the South before the 24th of June through - just in case!!!
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Post by turtle »

But lets not forget the Tory "in" members who have sold their souls for a career move and NOT because of any other reason... Shameful.

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Post by cyprusgaz »

John Major had a phrase to identify those who failed to support the party leader. They were known as the "ooops". Just about fits, I think.

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Post by jofra »

Whatever the outcome, I would be interested to see how the percentages (yes v. no) of voters who reside in the UK compare with those of voters living abroad; i.e. whether (if the same result) by approximately the same or by a vastly different majority.
Conversely (if results differ), which group voted which way, and by wide or narrow margins.
I wonder whether the fact of living abroad possibly affects the view from abroad and the subsequent choice of vote.
For example, certain 'facilities' now exist in close proximity to my home.
These came over some years, causing no small disturbance, damaging what I consider my (as they term it) residential amenities and causing me great annoyance and anger . However, neighbours and recent newcomers tend to accept it and some even consider these facilities to be useful - so while in this case, it's not 'where', it's 'how long' that drastically alters the viewpoint.
So - will this sort of differing viewpoint affect how people vote?

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Post by sophie »

I've also been thinking about the amount (or lack of it) assistance we might expect to receive from the UK Government if we pull out of the EU. i.e. in the past they appear to be completely unsympathetic to any problems we might have.

We had Winter Fuel Allowance removed, when as we know it can get flippin cold here during the winter months. That had nothing to do with he EU.

UK M.P's and the Government as a whole appear have the opinion that "you shouldn't have moved to the TRNC in the first place." If memory serves, purchasing here is still considered iffy on Foreign Office websites re advice on purchasing abroad.

Would we receive more or less assistance when asked for, from the British Consul. They don't exactly fall over themselves now do they.

There are a number of queries/problems that only apply to us, but wouldn't be considered at all the UK residents.

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Post by erol »

waddo wrote:Filled in the register to vote info this afternoon - now I wait to see if I am acceptable as a tax paying British subject who filled in the forms in 2007 to say I was leaving the UK forever and never to return - the same forms that people should have filled in when they retired here but probably never did, no complaints as it is everyone's choice I suppose?

Will post any reply that may filter through.
Just for info

I applied to register to vote here https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote

They then forwarded details to the local council I though I was last registered to vote in. They then contacted me (via email) to say they could not find me at the address and date I had given. I emailed back an alternative address and date (it was a long time ago and I could not remember exactly what address I was at at what time). They did then find me on voter registrations for this address and date and asked me to re apply again using these details, which I have just done. That is as far as I have got to date. I think I now just have to fill out a form to apply for a postal vote, scan it and send it back to the local council department and I should be done. I think. Oh and I never filled out any forms when I left the UK to come and live here.

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Post by Wagthedog »

It seems strange that nobody has mentioned that for 20 years in a row auditors have refused to sign off
Brussels EU accounts,citing that 5.5 billion(yes billion) pounds had been mispent,by the EU.
Now if you held shares in a company like this you would want some real explanation,
Well you have, the company is E.U. And your taxes are your shares.
The E.U is being run by overpaid civil servants,it's time we started to run our own country as we want it gone run.

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Post by kerry 6138 »

Or the waste of money spent moving EU parliament beween Brussels and Strasbourg.
Cameron talked about reforming the EU came back with a few dispensations for the UK,which still need to be signed off by EU parliament

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Post by mickhm »

Be careful of the postal vote I applied and on the forms it seems the ballot papers may not be sent ou until 4 working days before the election. The quickest I have ever receiverd any mail has taken 1 days if it arrives at all. I have applied for a proxy vote and will ask the candidate in my area who supports my vote to cast it for me.
As I got older I congratulated myself on my tolerance..... Now I realise I just don't give a "ooops"

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Post by turtle »

Wagthedog wrote:|:) It seems strange that nobody has mentioned that for 20 years in a row auditors have refused to sign off
Brussels EU accounts,citing that 5.5 billion(yes billion) pounds had been mispent,by the EU.
Now if you held shares in a company like this you would want some real explanation,
Well you have, the company is E.U. And your taxes are your shares.
The E.U is being run by overpaid civil servants,it's time we started to run our own country as we want it gone run.

I couldn't agree more.

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Post by waddo »

But I do have shares in a company far worse than that - it is called the UK!!! What is more I have buy more and more shares every time my pension is paid to me - but that goes under the name of Income Tax. I always get annoyed when I hear the term "Overpaid Civil Servants", the only Civil Servants I have ever known to be "overpaid" are those in the "Senior" Civil Service bracket and they are the ones who are supposed to be leading. The normal old Civil Servant is not only NOT overpaid but in the majority of instances is very underpaid for the tasks they have to perform - there are exceptions of course but just take a look at pay rates and you will see.
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Post by jofra »

Unfortunately, as reported here, here and here, there appears to be disagreement on this repeated claim - what differs here is that while each site agrees that the auditors have completed and "signed" their reports, some say that some (0.2%) of the errors found may be fraudulent - this far from "not signing off".
As a former internal auditor, I regularly submitted completed "signed off" reports that pointed out errors and discrepancies (almost always accidental or through negligence) - "signed off" does not and never has meant that no errors and/or discrepancies exist, only that the audit has been completed (and hopefully that any and all errors etc have been found).
Incidentally, there are different types of audits - for example, compliance audits which check that rules, specified procedures, regulations and instructions are adhered to (such as correct and accurate accounting!), system audits where rules, specified procedures, regulations and instructions are examined to ensure they are effective and will provide the required result - if they are complied with.....
As to running our country as we want it run? Impossible; we all want it run differently!

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Post by waddo »

Well, still no reply from Telford & Wrekin Council, guess they are having problems trying to figure out how the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus is in Turkey - or is that Cyprus and if so, why is Turkey part of Cyprus??? After all, everyone knows that Cyprus is part of Greece init!!!!
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Post by Kanonier »

Just wondering if we do vote to leave the EU how will that affect our chances in the Eurovision Song Contest?

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Post by Dalartokat »

waddo wrote:Well, still no reply from Telford & Wrekin Council, guess they are having problems trying to figure out how the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus is in Turkey - or is that Cyprus and if so, why is Turkey part of Cyprus??? After all, everyone knows that Cyprus is part of Greece init!!!!

Why do you expect a reply so quick when you only sent your message on Sunday 21st February 2016. Give them 2-6 weeks at least.
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Post by waddo »

Because the web site said they would acknowledge receipt by email within 24 hours! Is that a good enough reason to expect a response? However, today is another day and it is a normal day in both Cyprus and the UK - no response.
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Post by tomsteel »

waddo, I share your frustration regarding response times from, supposed, responsible organisations - my personal belief is they are mostly inept t!!!-s. Why not re-contact the Council with a comment their response time is now subject to international monitoring/interest and see whether this approach sparks an answer to your initial query? Worth a shot, surely?

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Post by waddo »

I am taking it that with only 121 days to go to deal with whole of Telford and Wrekin area (166,000 in 2011 and increasing by an average of 10,000 every ten years, which would give a possible maximum population of 171,000) and that 36 days of weekends must be taken into account along with 1 day of public holidays, giving an overall maximum work days of 84 to spread amongst the population, they would have to deal with a maximum of 2,036 people each working day - or 255 people per hour!

Now that is a huge workload and I therefore do have some sympathy with them however, on the 31st of March last year they did publish that there were 120,000 registered voters in Telford and Wrekin which would effectively leave them with only 51000 to deal with in their 84 working days - or 76 people an hour - now I have less sympathy than earlier.

I strongly suspect that I will just be ignored until sufficient time has past when it will be impossible to either register in time or receive a postal ballot paper and get it returned in time. Not their fault they will cry!
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EU Facts: What would leaving the EU mean for expats?

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Post by RAZR63 »

Would Britain leaving the European Union see British expatriates deported en masse? What happens to their property? We answer your questions
We've been asking Telegraph readers to send us their questions about the EU referendum. Hundreds have emailed [email protected] and more questions pour in every day.
One of the most popular topics for queries is how expats and people who own property in EU countries might be affected.
These concerns have clearly been sharpened by warnings from the Remain camp about the effect of Brexit.
British expatriates may have to stop living abroad in European countries like France and Spain if Britain leaves the European Union, the Government has suggested. Europe Minister David Lidington warned over the weekend that a British exit would see "everything we take for granted about access to the single market" in question, including "the right of British citizens to go and live in Spain or France".
So should expats fear Brexit? What could happen to them if Britain leaves the EU?

read the rest here: http://tinyurl.com/jyo9ot3

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Post by waddo »

With reference to my post of on the 21st of Feb 2016 where I said I would post any information I received back, this is what I got - via email - today, 63 days after I asked the question of the Telford and Wrekin Council about voting in the Brexit:

I am writing to confirm that I have received your overseas declaration. You will be
registered as an overseas elector for The Wrekin Parliamentary Constituency and West
Midlands Region European Constituency for one year.
Overseas elector’s declarations must be renewed annually. I will send a further application
form as a reminder approximately three months prior to your annual renewal.
You should keep this acknowledgement.

Based on the timescales involved, EROL should get his information tomorrow and then we will both still be in the dark over what we do next - its a wonderful system, be part of it!!

Now I will reply asking what I do next to cast my vote in the Brexit - another 63 days wait I suppose and by then the election will be over, ho hum - lol.
Make happy those who are near and those who are far will come!

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erol
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Re: If the UK leaves the EU.

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Post by erol »

waddo wrote:Based on the timescales involved, EROL should get his information tomorrow and then we will both still be in the dark over what we do next - its a wonderful system, be part of it!!
Sorry. I got two 'physical' letters back (to the address I gave which is a PO Box in the South) from Ealing council weeks and weeks ago. I do not have them to hand and may have thrown them out entirely but my memory of them is essentially 'you are now registered to vote by post'. I think the first said 'we have received your application to vote by post'. The second I think said something along the lines of 'your postal ballot will be sent to this address and needs to be completed and returned to Ealing Council in time' or something like that. I will try and locate the letters (if not thrown out) and be a bit more precise.

On the form sent to me by Ealing council to apply to vote by post section 2 was as follows.

2 How long do you want a postal vote for ?

I want to vote by post at all elections or referendums (tick one box only)

- until further notice
- for the election or referendum to be held on (boxes to put in date)
- for the period (boxes for from and to dates)

I ticked 'until further notice'.

My understanding is at some point before the referendum vote but not too long before (I have 2 weeks in my head but don't know exactly where that came from) Ealing Council will send my postal ballot to the address I gave them (PO Box in South) and I will then have to complete it and return it so that it arrives back with Ealing council before the referendum date and as long as this is is done, my vote will be counted.

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Re: If the UK leaves the EU.

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Post by waddo »

Erol, many thanks, I am still in "discussions" with Telford & Wrekin and did email and ask what I should do next - you will love this - this is the reply I received yesterday:

"On checking our records I can confirm that you are on the register as a pending young elector (unfortunately this means that you will not be able to vote until you reach the age of 18).
I believe from your overseas registration that your date of birth is 5/3/1999."


Now, whilst that reply actually made my day I am left wondering just how the date of 5/3/1999 ended up on my registration form? As my birth date is actually 14/6/1947 I can't even see how it became confused. However, I shall scan and send my birth certificate today and see what happens next - lol.
Make happy those who are near and those who are far will come!

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Re: If the UK leaves the EU.

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Post by kibsolar1999 »

Ok, iam german and this is not my business.. but when I read this, i feel that I should say something..
statement
1. There are WELL over 2.5 million E.U economic migrants in the U.K. alone the U.K. will collapse if this carries on.
Well, this number is wrong and the vast majority are taxpayers. I wonder why the britsh are not “proud” that so many are attracted.. http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016 ... uk-economy
2. Why the hell would any country want to be controlled by Nazi Europe ?
It seems that the writer has no clue what “nazi” means. If the Nazis would have invaded Britain (thankfully this never happened), they would have been wiped out.
3. it makes me sick that a lot of the towns and cities are now no go areas for the English people especially in central London.
I thought central London is a no go area for (normal) british people because of gentrification = attracting rich and superrich to the UK as a tax haven (+ Guernsey, Jersey, the Caymans, ex british Hong Kong aso..) , https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/conten ... ax-havens/, and not because of the “EU rubbish”.
4. It seems strange that nobody has mentioned that for 20 years in a row auditors have refused to sign off Brussels EU accounts,citing that 5.5 billion(yes billion) pounds had been mispent,by the EU.
5,5 billion… comes for each EU citizen to 10 pounds. One portion of fish and chips in central London.. Iam sure our all personal “mispents” are much higher (if I would call all of us “ a company”)
And so on, another brit told me that the UK does not want to pay the 6 billion for the EU budget, in his words: lets save our 6 billion and you get the PIGS. (ignoring the fact that the debts of the UK soon will be higher as in portugal, spain and Italy)
the average brit is rich, but the vast majority is not. It seems that many are not aware how poor many british people often are….which also is caused by the decline of the middle class. (see GINI index)
Many do not see that the problem in the UK is NOT the social budget.. the problem is that the UK can not generate enough income.. because… the necessary laws are blocked since decades....
It seems to me that the “brexit” (separation) discussion is a campaign introduced by those who has to lose something, the rich and superrich, because they know that the EU institutions are after them, see the discussions reg tax havens, tobin tax, capital tax, in general tax equality in EU and so on… and play mind games with the remaining middle class members… (fear eats the soul)
Yes, a brexit will take some time..… but I guess many will be surprised how long a row at a border can be and with “how little in hand” the surely new PM will come back from Brussels. Brussels (the other EU countries!!!) already is and will be even more angry.. and Cameron knows this (Obama told him last week again).
No matter how who vote.. bigger changes should be and most probably will be on the way.. or how long you believe this can go on?

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Re: If the UK leaves the EU.

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Post by COG »

I fully understand the frustration of kibsolar's post. So much panic, xenophobia and disinformation appearing in this debate! However I'm hopeful that there will still be that quiet intelligent majority of British people who will look to their future, and their children's future in a cooperative multicultural Europe, leading and shaping that Europe, rather than looking backwards in a rather sad and isolationist way to a past of faded and dubious glories.

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Re: If the UK leaves the EU.

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Post by kaiserphil »

"cooperative multicultural Europe" - wonder if you live in it?

I do, and it is not looking pretty.

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