If the UK leaves the EU.

terry2366 · Post by **terry2366** » Fri 29 Apr 2016 11:13 am

I am surprised by the talk from our German friend as the majority of the Germans I know that actually live in Germany are as fed up with the eu and the euro as the majority of the Northern Europe states are. Also the next poster with the multicultural idea even Merkel said it was not working. So I assume you two either live in a bubble somewhere or have just arrived from outer space. Or you could just be joking ,hopefully the latter.

kibsolar1999 · Post by **kibsolar1999** » Fri 29 Apr 2016 11:24 am

kaiserphil,
but this is not caused by the EU. this is because GB refuses to do thieir homework incl a completely outdated election system.

kaiserphil · Post by **kaiserphil** » Fri 29 Apr 2016 11:38 am

kibsolar1999 wrote:kaiserphil,
but this is not caused by the EU. this is because GB refuses to do thieir homework incl a completely outdated election system.

I have to agree with you about the outdated election system - it should have been changed many years ago. If it had been, you may have seen a far different result following the last election.

Otherwise, "homework"? I don't understand. I don't need to do any homework to know why I, along with a good many others, wish to leave the EU. That is how I feel. You may carry on with your high-flown ideals, that is your business.

But please don't lecture me about it.

No doubt die Känzlerin would be proud of you.

woodspeckie · Post by **woodspeckie** » Fri 29 Apr 2016 12:20 pm

terry2366 wrote:I am surprised by the talk from our German friend as the majority of the Germans I know that actually live in Germany are as fed up with the eu and the euro as the majority of the Northern Europe states are. Also the next poster with the multicultural idea even Merkel said it was not working. So I assume you two either live in a bubble somewhere or have just arrived from outer space. Or you could just be joking ,hopefully the latter.

Business in NC don't know if he lives there.

COG · Post by **COG** » Fri 29 Apr 2016 12:36 pm

Lived and worked in it for many years until this year. No rose tinted glasses, it has many problems which need to be urgently addressed, as well as many benefits and strengths.
My attitude in a nutshell : better to be on the inside p*****g out, than vice versa!

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Fri 29 Apr 2016 12:56 pm

For me - personally speaking - what would change if the UK leaves the EU? Would I suddenly stop having to pay income tax on pensions because they are "Government" pensions? Would I suddenly be allowed a vote in my mother countries affairs? Would I need a visa to visit an EU country? Would I have been better off IN than OUT? Would I have to pay for a new Non-EU passport? Would I be allowed to use the services of the NHS for which I paid for over 44 years?

Finally, as the talks about Brexit have been going on for months and months now do I really think that MY government gives a damn about which way the vote will go - this on the basis that only now have they said "There is not enough time to meet one of our promises that got us elected, or put another way, get rid of the 15 year period for British citizens who choose to live abroad"?

Do I really believe that the UK Government are not capable of making the decision - for which I pay them - on leaving or staying in the EU - or are they just playing a game of "Well it was your choice so if it is wrong then its your fault"!!!

Whichever way it goes the majority of us will all be stuck with it, happy or not! The rich and super rich will either stay or simply move their money away. Happy days.

kerry 6138 · Post by **kerry 6138** » Fri 29 Apr 2016 5:49 pm

Kibsolar- I'm polar opposite of the super rich but I will vote to leave because how I see the EU has affected me.
1 Lost my job when EU decided a company shouldn't have 2 large factory's apparently wasn't good for competition, so mine was sold for £1 to Italian company who took the assets including pension funds and moved south.
2.My son has had more jobs in 5 years than I had in 30 all minimum wage zero hour contract kept low because of the abundance of willing workforce, he actually had one job were they paired him with English speaking Pole has all the supervisors spoke Polish.
I understand the draw for the likes of the eastern Europeans to benefit from the free movement regulations but its not a 2 way street
3.My grandsons go to a village school bursting at the seams use NHS creaking under pressure
4.When I disagree with the direction Mr Cameron is taking the country, my X on polling day carries some weight I cant say the same for Mr Rumpy.
I resent the PC brigade that say if you dont like direction the EU's going its because you are xenophobic, Frau Merkel was happy to invite the 100,000 potential workers to Germany but soon used the full force of the border controls when 250,000 joined the queue

Mowgli597 · Post by **Mowgli597** » Fri 29 Apr 2016 7:48 pm

What has the ECHR (European Convention on Human Rights) ever done for us?

http://tinyurl.com/zwyecuz

kibsolar1999 · Post by **kibsolar1999** » Sat 30 Apr 2016 8:50 am

I am neither very much idealisctic nor I come from outer space…
Every single member of the EU fight for their own benefit… eg, as Merkel protects the german car manufacturers and seem to be happy that germany is “tax haven no 8”, Cameron protects the London banksters, and so on..
Yes, not so nice things, as Kerry 6138 mentioned (eg, no 2), happens also in germany and everywhere...
Many germans are not happy with the EU, yes, but many do not have the opinion that those problems are mainly caused by the EU. They also see the advantages of the EU, as it seems it is very good that all the member states send reps and agree to something which is good “for all”.. even if this leads to the one or other “disadvantage” for a member state.
Instead they say: please, (german) government, do your homework.
And, these people are represented in parliament(s), and this is a big difference. We have the Bundestag ( of 630 MPs are 310 merkel, 193 social democrats, 64 lefts and 63 greens) plus the 16 federal states parliaments (of which only 5 are “merkel lead”), which sends representatives to our second parliament, the Bundesrat, which often must give approval. Merkel and a Panama account? She could not survive this for a single day! Germany is a consens society.
The UK has an unelected, very conservative, second parliament, not even a new election could change anything… and certainly not with a majority representation only. I personally cannot understand why the british people do not understand how important a proportional representation is.. never such a situation as today would have happened.
And that’s why so many british are so unhappy when a PM comes back from Brussels, with less in hand as promised..a majority rep meets proportion reps. That’s why “others” (as germany) may play the “consens game” better as the UK.. and the other EU members are unhappy with the UK..
I do agree… the UK government has no clue what to do… The UK need a change, a real change.. the ultimate prove was the scots referendum, the Brexit referendum is nothing more than another sideshow and certainly the present UK government (one government – two Exit referendums.. unbelievable) is as useless as all the Brexit supporters.
I am… neither in favor nor against a Brexit. No, not correct. A favor a bit a Brexit. Reason is very simple: I just want to see what will happen. Eg, see what happens when France will not protect the Eurotunnel any more.. and thousands walk through.. “we will not let them in”.. but the Eurotunnel remains closed then. Or what? or Toyota will move to Europe.. or whatever..
What do you want to be? An isolated island selling Cadbury chocolade and attracting the superrich with 0% taxes, ending up one day on a blacklist?
All these discussions finding a consens takes often a long time, .... very boring.. a Brexit could speed up some things... PRO Europe. Without Britain.

kaiserphil · Post by **kaiserphil** » Sat 30 Apr 2016 10:18 am

"I personally cannot understand why the british people do not understand how important a proportional representation is.. never such a situation as today would have happened. ".

Of course we understand how important it is. However, do you think it will ever change when it suits the two majority political parties? Is either of them likely to want to change it . How do you think the British public can change anything?

And do you really think we should stay in the EU just because of French blackmail over the tunnel? Any such action on the part of the French would have to provoke strong reaction. Time for another Waterloo, maybe ........

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Sat 30 Apr 2016 10:36 am

Kaierphil, Who will pay for the rental of the ships to mount another Waterloo and just which troops are going to go and fight it anyway? No need for the French to blackmail over the tunnel - just shut it at the UK end and start the ultimate isolation.

Maybe a name change would help - "British Republic of the Un-United Kingdom" - that seems about right and would put it on a par with the TRNC as well. UK out of the EU, Scotland out of the UK, Ireland out of the UK and Wales still not committed - Could easily end up with England being the only Non-EU country surrounded by border controls and visa requirements. What a mess this is going to be!

Still, if it all goes points up then maybe "England" will recognize the TRNC so they will have somebody to trade with, that may well depend on China letting them of course.

sammydavis · Post by **sammydavis** » Sat 30 Apr 2016 1:12 pm

Just a thought - the timescale for receiving the necessary form(s) and getting back them back to UK is too tight (with normal post from here) - last year I tried this and realised that my form would not get back in time, therefore - this time I am using a Proxy in UK - and my forms etc should go to her. I trust her to put the correct tick in box as she feels the same way about Brexit as I do - however, if anyone tries this, perhaps you should opt for a Proxy with same principles etc as yourself!!

woodspeckie · Post by **woodspeckie** » Sat 30 Apr 2016 2:45 pm

koi solar1999 concern yourself about what is happening in Germany. AfD meeting to day to agree a manifesto, to withdraw from the euro reintroduce conscription and ban the burka and minarets from Germany, police used pepper spray on protesters.

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sun 01 May 2016 3:01 pm

Any Ex Pat (Cyprus inhabitant) would be very foolish to vote leave. As European members we enjoy freedom of movement. As aliens outside of Europe many countries including the ROC will require visas for entry. Do not assume for a moment that the freedoms of travel enjoyed at the moment will simply continue.
To be out will be isolation, reduced influence within the world. Economic damage is without , in my view, unquestionable. The decline in living standards will be swift as investors and investment evaporate for a country without clear course and rife with uncertainty.
Vote security, prosperity, and freedom VOTE IN

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Sun 01 May 2016 4:22 pm

The Martin Lewis interview last week was interesting as he basically said both in & out camps have not got a clue of what will happen if we vote out.
The in camp tell us all the bad things that "could" happen without any idea of the truth and the out camp tell us what all the bad things are there if we stay in. Does anyone really know what will happen one way or the other ?Waz talks about "isolation".... bit of a strong word that and a bit of scare mongering i think ? My experience of buying and selling groups are that they are very much wrapped up in red tape and rules & regs that goods become more expensive for the purchaser and generally if you trade on the open market prices are lower.
The standard of living will decline swiftly ?... How.
You say vote for freedom ? We don't have that much business freedom, we are told what we can and can't do by the EU so not much freedom there and as for freedom of travel the average Joe travels to Spain or Turkey or Greece for his 2 weeks in the sun which makes up the majority of travelers and those that travel all over Europe on a regular basis are small in number by comparison.
As for influence in the world all I can say is we have very little influence within the EU and that is why the UK is having a vote in June, there are many people that are so fed up with what has happened to our country over the last 20yrs that if it was all roses in the EU why are so many people waiting to vote out in June.

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sun 01 May 2016 5:28 pm

Turtle,
Presently as a member of the EU. The UK sits at the table of Europe and consequently has significant influence at that table. The European Union is by far our biggest trading partner. To chose not to sit at that table or indeed to participate in negotiations is indeed a position of Isolation,

Furthermore, The economic and commercial wold of business is extremely fast moving. Investment is now global, London is currently a leading and respected centre for this. The uncertainty that will follow an exit will see investment migrate overnight to havens presenting more assurances of stabiliy and less risk, The uncertainty and time to negotiate on a one to one basis with hundred of countries for freedom of travel, trade agreements, security issues, the sharing of information, the removal of agricultural and other subsidies could be catastrophic.

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Sun 01 May 2016 6:25 pm

Waz
You are right we do sit at the big table...with 27 others and quite often get voted against,...the recent so called Cameron negotiations spoke volumes of how much clout we have in Brussels.

Sorry mate but I can't agree with the statement .. "The uncertainty that will follow an exit will see investment migrate overnight" if its uncertain then how do you know this will defo happen ? again its just speculation.
Who knows... I wouldn't mind betting that loads of countries are queueing up to trade with us right now? and as for agricultural subsidies either don't pay to the EU in the first place or perhaps and here's a novel idea for you lets try working our farms and fisheries industries again

jofra · Post by **jofra** » Sun 01 May 2016 7:03 pm

"....there are many people that are so fed up with what has happened to our country over the last 20yrs that if it was all roses in the EU why are so many people waiting to vote out in June."
Are there? Consider service in shops and restaurants, quality and durability of items bought - name anything, and there are ten times/a hundred times more moans and complaints than plaudits, so that may be why there appear to be so many in favour of leaving. We will only know when the votes are counted.
As to foreign trade - before we joined the EU, we had a pretty-much guaranteed and loyal trading network with the rest of the Commonwealth (remember New Zealand lamb?) - and we dumped them without remorse! There was anger at the time, and Commonwealth citizens found themselves relegated when coming to the UK... Many things have not been forgotten, so there could be other un-thought-of pitfalls if we do leave - I have not yet decided, but I don't just think of some of the past and some of the future...

kerry 6138 · Post by **kerry 6138** » Sun 01 May 2016 7:14 pm

If the influence we had in the EU was significant we wouldn't be having this vote
We import more from EU than we export, would the EU want to isolate one of its customers
If investment is global then the place of business is just geographical if the Uk government brought in regulations making it advantageous to invest without being ham strung by EU regulations some of which would have been decided with imput from competors in Frankfurt then investment could alway's flow in to UK,who knows
I take it you are not taking about EU as a place of stability with less risk, part of the problem for me is the speed of enlargement ,Mr Rumpy and his friends seem hell bent on building a European superstate at all cost
If we leave we dont lose the freedom to travel the UK negotiate's reciprocal agreements with countries already.
If we are not entitled to EU subsidy we wont be paying into the fund either, UK could decide to pay its own subsidy like the Chinese do with steel, farmers would be able apply pressure through the polls currently steel workers can't
The only reason we have this opportunity is because Cameron was desperate for your vote at the last election
personally this is the last chance to change the direction of the EU if we stay in we'll never be able apply any pressure no matter how big a hand bag the Prime Minister has.

lee666 · Post by **lee666** » Sun 01 May 2016 7:35 pm

Been reading this thread with great interest since it was created and the only thing that really stands out is everyone has a different opinion which is great.

When we headed a very much bigger Commonwealth we didn't seem to have many problems trading with the rest of the world. I have no doubt whatsoever that we have enough very clever people in the UK to do this again. I have heard too many people putting down our capabilities, if we do leave the EU I am confident the 'Pheonix will rise from the Ashes'.

Finally should we leave, not one of us can predict what is going to happen, yes we can all speculate what might happen but that's about it.

Great chat, love it and my slogan below says it all really lol !!

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sun 01 May 2016 8:24 pm

Clearly the consensus is that the result cannot be called. Uncertainty prevails. It is precisely that uncertainty that like and uncertainty increases risk and that reflects in economic markets and currencies.
The currency markets reacted very quickly when the BREXIT date was announced. The pound has not recovered, 15% loss in strength of the pound within 14 days. It has not recovered and will not until certainty and stability is secured. To leave has far too many uncertainties and far too little preparation has been done for that eventuality.
Focus on the welfare of families, strength of UK exporters threat to security, These are matters of critical importance. The UK needs to be at the table and negotiate.

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sun 01 May 2016 8:41 pm

The UK has skill, resolve and attitude in abundance. Certainly even 20 years ago UK trade globally was on a very firm footing. The rebuilding of Europe after the 2nd world war gave UK industry a massive spring board to sell goods and services. The Modern world is now very different and trade is extremely tough and competitive. China, India, Russia are global players competing with increasing success. Chinese and Indian investment into the UK is massive. The UK must maintain an investment stream to allow continued growth and prosperity. If you think an exit from Europe will make the UK more attractive to investors then Please explain.

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Sun 01 May 2016 9:20 pm

What makes the UK so attractive to investors now ?

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sun 01 May 2016 9:38 pm

The UK is an attractive investment plain and simple.
Good commercial return on investment.
Stable and productive economy. ( in comparison to the remainder of the world)
Stable government.
Lower risk than other investment opportunities.

All the above remain fragile and open to international competition. The market , investors and investment move at the slightest whisper of risk.
Currencies within minutes. Long term investment in say automotive are based on long term stability.
It was only after our commitment to Europe in the 70's that Nissan, Honda, and Toyota invested in the UK.
If I was an investor from offshore and wanted to target Europe's 150 million target market I would go to Spain or Germany certainly not the UK once out of the club.
Does the UK really want to close that door of opportunity ?

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sun 01 May 2016 9:52 pm

So we may seek a divorce from Europe.
How many amicable divorce settlements do you know of?

We'll still be friends... wont we? Oh and please keep buying our goods services and please invest in our new Xenophobic administration after all we are the all new blue eyed blond master race.

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Sun 01 May 2016 10:07 pm

But that is exactly my point.
Doesn,t look like a great future to me.
Bankrupt countries being propped up, youth unemployment at record number's in the EU, the failed currency and not to mention the major problem with migration.

I'm sure any major investor will look at the best place for his dosh and decide the UK is still a good bet ☺

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Sun 01 May 2016 10:12 pm

waz-24-7 wrote:So we may seek a divorce from Europe.
How many amicable divorce settlements do you know of?

We'll still be friends... wont we? Oh and please keep buying our goods services and please invest in our new Xenophobic administration after all we are the all new blue eyed blond master race.

Waz
Actually a friend of mine divorced 6 yrs ago and they share the children responsibility and both get on better now than ever before they parted and the best bit is his ex wife pays him maintenance because she earns mor than him...so yes people can part on the best of terms.

kerry 6138 · Post by **kerry 6138** » Sun 01 May 2016 11:30 pm

There are other Europe countries not married to the EU The Swiss dont need a bail out! Countries in FTA arn't down on one knee proposing marriage.

Yet again the word xenophobia creeps in from pro EU, I have no more issue being European/British than I do being British/English (which I still will be if we leave EU), has pointed out earlier when we joined the EU that organisation stopped us trading with the Commonwealth should we label the EU instutionally racist?

I agree this has caused instability money markets like certainty so after the referendum some form of certainty will exist yes there will be instability if Brexit win but no more than if the EU continues its expansion into Turkey and all the other eurovision countries
if the current polls were not so close and the EU really believed we will leave they would still be negotiating if a few other countries joined us (maybe in a common market,just an idea) it would lead to a break up of the EU( imo) and the loss of power for a lot of mandarins

kibsolar1999 · Post by **kibsolar1999** » Mon 02 May 2016 10:04 am

1. The UK's economy grew by 2.2% in 2015. Did that “arrive” to the poor? No. Trickle down does not work, the gap widens. The richest 5 families in the UK own as much as the poorest 20%, thats 12,5 million britains.
2. The british average net contributions to the EU are -25% of the GNI, eg, italy pays more, germany pays 40% more.
3. GB receives approx 3 billion euros in subsidies from EU and exports for 11 billion food to the EU 28.
4. The EU is a 500 million market, not 150 million. The UK 65 milllion.
5. Eg, Switzerland, norway, are exceptions.. the one is tax haven no 1 and norway has plenty of oil and gas.... thats why the scots wanted to leave! Was that intention to keep all the gas and oil for thier own “fair”? no. İt seems that the richest are the ones who want to leave the poorer. Fair? No.

Terry, sorry, there is no fish any more! All gone. Or most. The EU tries to regulate this with catch quotas.. and then many...
“... are so fed up with what has happened to our country over the last 20yrs.... “ ????
Most of the problems are homemade and inherent in the system.
Adressing the EU for “all problems” is simply wrong. The EU institutions try to keep all member states interest in mind. Eg, we need fish in 2030 as well.

Ok, i dont want to say all is ok within the EU... many problems.. but, this also is a fact: many of the EU countries are puzzled with the UK and its permanent egoistic and egocentric demands, some call it “the lost empire” syndrome.
Some even love to see a brexit, because then the EU can do then things which the UK blocks at the moment.
Europe is not outer space, its quite close, just 22 miles of your coast.

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Mon 02 May 2016 12:34 pm

Kibsolar
Just make things a bit clearer I am not anti Europe but I have massive big issues with the EU and how it is run !.
The fishing issue is complicated and yes I do agree with setting quotas however 25% of the UK quota is given (by Brussels) to a huge Dutch super trawler that lands its catch in Holland ?... Fair?....absolutely not.
You say most problems are home made, could you please explain what you mean by that ?
Rules about pricing of goods and in particular price fixing were brought in some years ago but this corrupt EU system does exactly that by fixing prices for the EU,.. and not to the consumer benefit it protects the business that supplies the product which is illegal.
If you think the UK economy grew last year because of the EU think again,.. the EU economy has been in trouble for years and you would have thought that the EU would be flourishing if it was that good...but it's not ?
If you think by being in the EU will result in change then think again my friend the situation has only got worse for the last 20yrs it's a gravy train and needs bringing to heel and perhaps the vote in June just may make it sit up and pay attention...who knows.

Just one example of leeches in the EU and that's only 2 of them ?
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... enses.html

jofra · Post by **jofra** » Mon 02 May 2016 12:49 pm

"Sun"? .......Hillsborough? ..........Veracity?

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Mon 02 May 2016 2:02 pm

Probably the wrong choice of link Jofra but also available in the Telegragh and the BBC,... but maybe that wouldn't convince you anyway ?

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Mon 02 May 2016 3:51 pm

Turtle.
So we have one amicable settlement. I am please of that news.
I fear there are a 1000 not so amicable per month!! Besides the comparison is not to be taken literally . The splitting up of Europe will surely not be as amicable that many might be led to believe.
W

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Mon 02 May 2016 8:46 pm

It would be interesting to have an in out poll (don't know how to do it) and get a cross section view from ex pats, swallows and regular holiday makers .
This is a huge vote for the UK in June and people need to switch on to this as it will effect our lives forever.

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Mon 02 May 2016 10:27 pm

Turtle,
A poll would be useful to determine how ex pats feel about the divorce.

I believe that any ex pat anywhere in the world will be rather more isolated, restricted, exposed and generally worse off in the event of a Brexit.
W

kerry 6138 · Post by **kerry 6138** » Tue 03 May 2016 6:46 am

Was-24-7 presumably you feel isolated, restricted, exposed and worse off here in the north than you would be down south?

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Tue 03 May 2016 12:33 pm

kerry 6138, if the vote is for out then it won't matter where about's outside or inside of the EU you live - the end result will be isolation for all of us who have "Permanently" left the UK for the chance of a better life elsewhere. Inside the EU will mean the re-start of visa applications to stay, outside of the EU will just mean a loss of finance as the Pound drops to the same value as the Euro. Can't see any benefits to leaving the EU if you are retired anyway but no doubt the closure of the Chunnel will solve the whole countries problems in one fell swoop. I just feel sorry for the hard times my kids will now face outside of the EU. Still, so long as the Government is blameless then all is ok?

One thing I can say with absolute certainty - The Grass is only greener on the other side when you are actually on the other side and looking back at where you were!!!!

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Tue 03 May 2016 1:50 pm

The youth unemployment numbers for the Eurozone is chronic and getting worse but not anywhere near as bad in the UK.
We seem to inherit most what goes on in the EU lets hope we don't inherit this. ?

kerry 6138 · Post by **kerry 6138** » Tue 03 May 2016 5:18 pm

Waddo if you've read my previous post on this thread you'll see why I already feel sorry for my son and his kids and my reason for being a out.
I'd like to say the pound will soar on Brexit but I dont know and I dont believe anyone else does either.
I chose to live in the TRNC so I apply for visa's annually already, the only isolation I see is the isolation of a community who voted to join the EU.
why does leaving the EU mean the chunnel would close, or is this a different way of saying if you agree with Brexit you must be racist?

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Tue 03 May 2016 5:29 pm

kerry, no problems. I will remain an IN. Lived here for the past nine years without stepping off the Island at all and have all the visa's to prove that I could care less about the "agreement" (not law) that you don't need it when you are over 60 as well. I was thinking more about those who do not bother with visa's or take up residency on a permanent basis in lands other than this green (well getting a bit brown these days) and pleasant land. There are a huge number of people here who don't bother with a TRNC driving license, don't bother with residency and could really care less - I have no doubt at all that the TRNC hosts a minority of the overall sum of ex-pats world wide who do exactly the same but will now not be able to hide under the cover of their EU passport!
The chunnel comment was something I was told in conversation last week with yet another over 65 year old who wish's to go back to the "good old days" of pre EU - their idea was to close the tunnel at the UK (if there will still be such a thing) end and that would cure the major problem of all the aliens getting into the UK and taking all the jobs and not working and living on the state and, and, and and, it was the panacea and I just wanted to see if anyone else had the same idea?
I stick by my earlier statement - Nobody knows what will happen if the UK leaves for the greener grass on the other side!!!!

kerry 6138 · Post by **kerry 6138** » Tue 03 May 2016 5:48 pm

At least at our age we got to taste the grass on the other side and it wasn't all buttercups and daisies.

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Tue 03 May 2016 11:40 pm

Kerry
Was-24-7 presumably you feel isolated, restricted, exposed and worse off here in the north than you would be down south?
Hardly a realistic comparison.
I do not live in TRNC, However being a member of the EU I have freedom of travel into the Southern ROC. The TRNC is isolated and under embargo for reasons we l are all aware of. It is the case that in the ROC, my rights as a European citizen far exceed those enjoyed by ex pats in TRNC.
No residency permits, in and out records, compulsory health checks and certification, compulsory blood testing, no requirement for work permits.
The truth is being a European in TRNC carries no real advantage. In the South most definitely. Upon divorce from Europe you must expect significant changes to freedom of travel and changes in the general acceptance of UK citizens into foreign countries.

Munchkin · Post by **Munchkin** » Wed 04 May 2016 6:19 am

Get us out!

Mowgli597 · Post by **Mowgli597** » Wed 04 May 2016 7:05 am

=

Sadly, for too many people the above is true

kibsolar1999 · Post by **kibsolar1999** » Wed 04 May 2016 8:24 am

turtle,
i just wonder that you never say " ... I have massive big issues with the UK and how it is run !...going back at least to the "iron lady" a nearly 40 years ago..
- You say most problems are home made, could you please explain what you mean by that ?
you know excactly what i mean: the election system, the social gap = the gini index = eg, unemployment of the youth..
if you like: the commonwhealth and its migrants..
all caused by the corrupt EU? or by corrupt UK rulers?

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Wed 04 May 2016 10:42 am

Sorry Kibsolar you lost me !

Youth unemployment in the UK is the one of the lowest in the EU...fact.
The difference with the UK and the EU is simple we have a fighting chance of changing things in the UK with our votes ( I accept the voting system needs changing) but we have little or no chance of changing things in the EU,...it is democratically unfair.
If a UK leader is corrupt we simply vote them out and change them. Can't do that in the EU ?

kibsolar1999 · Post by **kibsolar1999** » Wed 04 May 2016 2:18 pm

well, turtle,
there are every couple of years some elections to the EU parliament. did you hear about that?
and at least the EU gives every party, incl eg, UKIP or Pirates, the chance to be elected and send members to the EU parliament, even if they wish to leave it.
so, we may may some free seats there soon?
sometimes i believe that, say i mean the UK, do not know what a coalition is..
typical disadvantage when you are grown up for centuries with a majority election system. white or black, nothing in between.
something like: we want it, so why we can not have it? and if we can not get it.. they must be nazis (or communists).
kib

kerry 6138 · Post by **kerry 6138** » Wed 04 May 2016 2:39 pm

Was 24-7 not sure the comparison so different ,free entry for tourist both have permits for permanent resident's,maybe the right to work is not the same has actually working try finding a job in any country with high unemployment has a foreigner.
TB and polio where eradicated in the UK now on the increase in the UK.
Before the EU plenty of Brits managed to find the costa's without much issue.

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Wed 04 May 2016 3:54 pm

Because rain stopped play on re-building my car port and because I just love statistics, I spent the afternoon on various web sites gathering information. Unless you have a death wish I would advise staying away from the Office of National Statistics!!!
After a mere three hours I have come up with the answer to which way the UK will vote on the 23rd of June!

Based on historical figures, the UK population in 1975 = 56 million. 74% were registered to vote, that is 41.44 million. 26 million voted in the EEC referendum. That means that 30 million never bothered or were too young to vote. That is 63.24% (approx 26 million) of the total registered voters in 1975! Of that number, 67% (17.42 million) voted IN and 33% (8.58 million) voted OUT! UK in the EEC because of 8.8 million votes and because 30 million could not be bothered with it – the golden years???

The UK population in the 2015 election s = 65 million. 31 million voted. That is 47.69%. The result is immaterial!
UK population in 2016 by age group is: Under voting age 12 million. Between 18 and 64 years of age - 42 million. Over 65 years of age – 11 million. This gives a “potential” (people who could vote if they registered) voting population of 53 million. However, based on previous averages only 74% (39.22 million) of “potential” voters will register and of those only 48% will vote – 18.82 million. Of those 18.82 it is expected, based on a recent survey, that 9 million (over 65’s) will vote OUT to try to regain the golden years of pre 1975!!

THE ANSWER:
It looks like it is down to the votes cast by the 18 to 64 year old's to swing the vote either way and as the 18 to 35 bracket is currently in favor of IN then it could be a close run thing. However, of the total population (eligible to vote) of 53 million, the final decision will be made by 18.82 million and 34.18 million won’t even bother!!

Lies, damn lies and statistics!!!!

kerry 6138 · Post by **kerry 6138** » Wed 04 May 2016 5:54 pm

Kibsolar if you are refering to coaltion governments the last UK gov was a coalition first one for a long time and it wasn't deemed a great success especially for the Liberal Democrats, perhaps its to with the size of the electorate, with a small electorate like the uk there isn't enough diversity, but in a electorate like the EU its easy for desenting voices to be shouted down.
EG. UK wants to fast track asylum claims to cut detention time EU says no, UK wants to take refugees direct from camps in Turkey ,EU led by calls from France and Germany says it will take refugees and share them out, result migrant crisis border closures near collapse of shengen agreement and the fast tracking of asylum claims in Greece and the swift return of economic migrants to Turkey at the cost of visa free travel for all Turkish nationals.

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