UK EU referendum - a kibkom poll

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Sun 08 May 2016 5:47 pm

This is simply unsustainable ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15748696

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Sun 08 May 2016 5:56 pm

Just as a side issue I must say I'm very disappointed with the number of people who have voted on this what I see as a very important subject that will have a huge influence on all our furtures .?
125 votes out of a possible 5400...a very poor turnout....something like 2.4%

erol · Post by **erol** » Sun 08 May 2016 6:08 pm

turtle wrote:Spain debt 94% of GDP
Portugal debt 129% of GDP
Italy debt 132% of GDP
Greece debt 175% of GDP
France debt 93.5% of GDP
Germany dept 78.4% of GDP
British debt 91% of GDP

The list goes on,... and this is a successful trading EU ?

The list does indeed go on

Japan 229.20% of GDP
Singapore 104.7% of GDP
USA 104.17% of GDP
Canada 86.51% of GDP
European Union average 85.20% of GDP

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sun 08 May 2016 8:17 pm

Turtle,
Absolutely agree.
With such an important life changing vote looming I too would expect some more action.
Perhaps folk are rather more occupied with dealing with TRNC issues of which there are many. These too can also be life changing

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Sun 08 May 2016 9:16 pm

C'mon kibkomers......you must have an opinion ?

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Mon 09 May 2016 8:50 am

Stats show that out of 130 people voting, 98 have voted one way and 32 have voted another way. Or, if you were trying to sell perfume or hair products you could just say that 75% of people poled agreed that XXXXXXX was the best product they had tried!

You don't need to have over 5000 people responding to a question 3 would do the trick - the rest won't even bother to vote on anything anyway - figures from the 2015 election prove the point!!

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Mon 09 May 2016 6:06 pm

I do hope that the voting public wake up and smell the coffee on this critical vote that will effect them and most certainly their families in the UK.
Hair products and perfume are short term purchases that can be changed for another brand in just a few weeks.
This referendum is rather more serious....No second chance. Vote IN.

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Mon 09 May 2016 9:35 pm

Looking at the poll above I think they may have woken up and drank that coffee Waz

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Tue 10 May 2016 4:50 am

Wow, a sudden leap to 2.5%, that really gives you hope!

PoshinDevon · Post by **PoshinDevon** » Tue 10 May 2016 7:34 am

Maybe there are many Kibkomers who have yet to make up their minds. There is still a good number of weeks before the poll and I certainly have not made up my mind as to IN or OUT.

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Tue 10 May 2016 7:50 am

Turtle,
I'm having my morning coffee right now. No sugar for me!!

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Tue 10 May 2016 6:25 pm

Don't worry I'm sure there will be a few sweeteners on the way in the next few weeks to keep you onside

Geoff1131 · Post by **Geoff1131** » Sat 28 May 2016 7:59 am

As it has been nearly 3 weeks since the last post on this thread and we are nearly 3 weeks away from the referendum vote. I just wondered how many people had changed their minds one way or the other on which way they intend to vote?

My heart says leave and my head agrees.

Geoff.

jackvern · Post by **jackvern** » Sat 28 May 2016 9:18 am

A major decision and I have voted.As a point of interest and nearer home what I wonder would be the response if Erol was to canvass votes to see how many Brits would vote for a settlement in Cyprus as opposed to the status quo.would we still get the vast undecided.

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Sat 28 May 2016 10:05 am

Well for me there is no change...I am a fully committed "outer"

There are lots of statements being thrown around by both parties some true but a lot pure speculation but one thing that is true is this...
The total EU budget this year is 155 billion euro of which at least 6% is swallowed up in admin alone so that is £72 billion spent on keeping this monster fed.

Are you happy with that ?

erol · Post by **erol** » Sat 28 May 2016 10:24 am

turtle wrote:Well for me there is no change...I am a fully committed "outer"

There are lots of statements being thrown around by both parties some true but a lot pure speculation but one thing that is true is this...
The total EU budget this year is 155 billion euro of which at least 6% is swallowed up in admin alone so that is £72 billion spent on keeping this monster fed.

Are you happy with that ?

6% of 155 is 9.3 ?

Groucho · Post by **Groucho** » Sat 28 May 2016 10:37 am

erol wrote:
turtle wrote:Well for me there is no change...I am a fully committed "outer"

There are lots of statements being thrown around by both parties some true but a lot pure speculation but one thing that is true is this...
The total EU budget this year is 155 billion euro of which at least 6% is swallowed up in admin alone so that is £72 billion spent on keeping this monster fed.

Are you happy with that ?
6% of 155 is 9.3 ?

Erol

I think you have misunderstood the arithmetic, Turtle is not claiming £72 billion is 6% of £155 billion, the 6% should have been in brackets...

erol · Post by **erol** » Sat 28 May 2016 10:54 am

Groucho wrote:
erol wrote:
turtle wrote:Well for me there is no change...I am a fully committed "outer"

There are lots of statements being thrown around by both parties some true but a lot pure speculation but one thing that is true is this...
The total EU budget this year is 155 billion euro of which at least 6% is swallowed up in admin alone so that is £72 billion spent on keeping this monster fed.

Are you happy with that ?
6% of 155 is 9.3 ?
Erol

I think you have misunderstood the arithmetic, Turtle is not claiming £72 billion is 6% of £155 billion, the 6% should have been in brackets...

So where does the 72 figure come from and what is the relationship[ between it and the 155 and 6% ?

Keithcaley · Post by **Keithcaley** » Sat 28 May 2016 10:55 am

Groucho wrote:
erol wrote:
turtle wrote:Well for me there is no change...I am a fully committed "outer"

There are lots of statements being thrown around by both parties some true but a lot pure speculation but one thing that is true is this...
The total EU budget this year is 155 billion euro of which at least 6% is swallowed up in admin alone so that is £72 billion spent on keeping this monster fed.

Are you happy with that ?
6% of 155 is 9.3 ?
Erol

I think you have misunderstood the arithmetic, Turtle is not claiming £72 billion is 6% of £155 billion, the 6% should have been in brackets...

Well I, for one, still don't understand his arithmetic, or your explanation - Sorry!

I am following all of this with keen interest, so please elucidate

mokfey · Post by **mokfey** » Sat 28 May 2016 12:24 pm

waz-24-7

The East Midlands MEP Roger Helmer appears to disagree with you on a number of points..................................

https://rogerhelmermep.wordpress.com/

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Sat 28 May 2016 2:31 pm

There should have been a decimal point in between the 7 and the 2 sorry for the confusion but I'm sure you economists out there worked it out ?

It's still a friggin lot of dosh

MAD-TAFF · Post by **MAD-TAFF** » Sat 28 May 2016 5:30 pm

Leave ASAP

rocking · Post by **rocking** » Sat 28 May 2016 9:20 pm

Out, out, out

sophie · Post by **sophie** » Sun 29 May 2016 5:30 pm

I voted very soon after the pole was put on the Forum and haven't changed my mind one jot. However there are an awful lot of other matters on my mind at the moment - having lived here for 11 years and nowhere else to live. and oh, wouldn't it be wonderful to think I had some say in my life here, rather than being treated like an unwanted nincompoop!!

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sun 29 May 2016 7:38 pm

mokfey wrote:waz-24-7

The East Midlands MEP Roger Helmer appears to disagree with you on a number of points..................................

https://rogerhelmermep.wordpress.com/

Thank you Mokfey
Given the level of debate we are now seeing in the UK many will be expected to disagree.
However it is the force behind the real leaders of the UK, Europe and the World that carry more credence than Mr who? Helmer.

kerry 6138 · Post by **kerry 6138** » Mon 30 May 2016 12:07 am

sophie wrote:I voted very soon after the pole was put on the Forum and haven't changed my mind one jot. However there are an awful lot of other matters on my mind at the moment - having lived here for 11 years and nowhere else to live. and oh, wouldn't it be wonderful to think I had some say in my life here, rather than being treated like an unwanted nincompoop!!

Maybe oneday sophie you'll be entitled to citizenship a vote in referendums and if UK Brexit visa free travel round EU

Groucho · Post by **Groucho** » Mon 30 May 2016 7:36 am

waz-24-7 wrote:
mokfey wrote:waz-24-7

The East Midlands MEP Roger Helmer appears to disagree with you on a number of points..................................

https://rogerhelmermep.wordpress.com/
Thank you Mokfey
Given the level of debate we are now seeing in the UK many will be expected to disagree.
However it is the force behind the real leaders of the UK, Europe and the World that carry more credence than Mr who? Helmer.

Waz you seem very in awe of EU leaders - what have they done to deserve such a slavish adherence to their every word? Oh - as long as that word is 'stay'...

You must know of a very different bunch of folk in positions of power than the total numpties the UK and the rest of Europe are in the thrall of... who are these fantastic minds that you feel we ought to be awaiting their every vocal ejaculation with bated breath? Please God it's not Cameron and Merkel!

erol · Post by **erol** » Mon 30 May 2016 7:52 am

Groucho wrote: You must know of a very different bunch of folk in positions of power than the total numpties the UK and the rest of Europe are in the thrall of... who are these fantastic minds that you feel we ought to be awaiting their every vocal ejaculation with bated breath? Please God it's not Cameron and Merkel!

Are you suggesting that the likes of Micheal Gove, Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage are any less 'numpties' than Cameron and Osborn ? Seems to me there are numpties to the left of me and numpties to the right of me and yet I still have to make my own decision as to what I think is best for myself, the UK and Europe and the world in general, regardless of the numpties.

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Mon 30 May 2016 11:41 pm

Groucho,
I think Erol has answered for me.
Your generalised lack of confidence in leaders of EU, UK and possibly USA. leaves me doubtful of a reasoned solution after you have thrown all these leaders overboard. Will this lead to a prosperous UK. I hardly think so.

Groucho · Post by **Groucho** » Tue 31 May 2016 5:32 am

waz-24-7 wrote:Groucho,
I think Erol has answered for me.
Your generalised lack of confidence in leaders of EU, UK and possibly USA. leaves me doubtful of a reasoned solution after you have thrown all these leaders overboard. Will this lead to a prosperous UK. I hardly think so.

The fact that you think our prosperity is in any way due to the likes of our so called leaders tells me you have no grasp of the realities of business and finance whatsoever....

I do know that we prosper and will continue to prosper in spite of them not because of them... recent Government record on matters financial is littered with very costly mistakes...

Not sure why you think we should be in awe of our leaders - they do precious little to instil any confidence that they have a grasp of the real issues affecting the man in the street. By all means you carry on with that but please don't expect the 'grey pound' to have much regard for the bunch of over-weaning, over-privileged and out of touch pigs with their noses in the EU trough...

Barak Obama has been drawn into the discussion by our leader to help lend gravitas where none exists - he should really have said this is a domestic matter for you to deal with but never mind... he's arguing for the status-quo which makes him comfortable... Well it doesn't make many in the UK comfortable one jot.

It's about time we made our members of parliament do some real work for a living rather merely ratifying diktats from Europe - that's what they are paid to do but only seem willing to delegate their duty with the cry 'oh well it's the EU'

Erol.

I think of all the people of gravitas advocating a leave vote Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage are possibly the least best choice and should have been excluded from the short-list and set-aside when looking for champions of the cause... but hey ho somebody has cocked-up on that score... which is a shame but nonetheless the out argument still holds water. Again in spite of them not because of them....

Waz,

The out is the reasoned solution - that removing ourself from this unholy alliance, does of itself, provide an opportunity for renewal and a reinvigorated economy away from the restraints the EU imposes upon increasingly chipping away out our ability to retain both our sovereignty, our trading and entrepreneurial culture.

The stay campaign try to make out that we are wanted inside the EU - well I don't believe we are liked at all... you only need look at the way the voting in the Eurovision Song Contest reflects the sentiments of the rest of Europe to the UK.... It's a better benchmark of our likely chance of influence within the EU than any of our leaders' statements.... we don't need them, they don't really want us - didn't want us in the first place and now they are worried that leaving them will expose the great big holes in the EU accounts that we plug to the tune in excess of £165 billion per annum. Money we could well use ourselves to prosper rather than support nations with no will to sort themselves out.

Twaddle · Post by **Twaddle** » Tue 31 May 2016 9:50 am

This is an interesting document should you have the time to read it. Seems that we don't pay as much as many people think. As a nation the UK pays a smaller percentage of National Income than all the other member countries. I think it is better off staying in rather than taking the risk of leaving. I'll get my tin hat on!!....
http://ukandeu.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads ... n-Begg.pdf

Groucho · Post by **Groucho** » Tue 31 May 2016 12:07 pm

Twaddle wrote:This is an interesting document should you have the time to read it. Seems that we don't pay as much as many people think. As a nation the UK pays a smaller percentage of National Income than all the other member countries. I think it is better off staying in rather than taking the risk of leaving. I'll get my tin hat on!!....
http://ukandeu.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads ... n-Begg.pdf

Who do you think paid for this bit of misinformation?

Twaddle · Post by **Twaddle** » Tue 31 May 2016 12:27 pm

Why is it misinformation? The fact that it doesn't conform to what you believe doesn't make it wrong!
As you may have guessed, I support remaining inside the EU.
I get the impression that many of the people wishing to leave are under the impression that the UK will return to the way that it was in the 50s and 60's and that we won't have an immigration problem any more and we can all live in a lovely rose garden. That ship has definitely sailed I'm afraid. The world is now truly global and we are all moving around it with relative ease. We need to be trading with our main partners on an even playing field.
Like it or not, it is true that since the inception of the EU/ Common Market There have been no major European wars and the prospect of another is, ( I believe) highly unlikely whilst we are so closely bound with other member states.

erol · Post by **erol** » Tue 31 May 2016 12:38 pm

Groucho wrote:Who do you think paid for this bit of misinformation?

Implying that this LSE produced report is misleading by intent because it has been funded by some kind of pro EU 'vested interest' is easy to do Groucho. Providing some actual evidence that supports your implication, well, with respect, I suggest this not so easy to do, which presumably is why you have not bothered with such details ?

Groucho · Post by **Groucho** » Tue 31 May 2016 1:44 pm

My point was why has this appeared now and who commissioned it? Has it been done purely to inform or is it because they feel the tide ebbing away from them? Is it paid for? If so by whom? does it serve to clarify the situation or is it meant to dazzle us with statistics... who was claiming that we paid more than anybody else anyway? Or were they not merely claiming that membership costs an awful lot of money? The fact that all wealthy member states pay through the nose equally is not a good thing - it's just more evidence that it's an overbearing burden on good economies...

In Ian Beggs' own words "The UK does not face an unfair share of the burden of paying for Europe, but is clearly a net contributor. "

The argument still remains why pay to be a member of a union that is, as far as most people I know believe, abusive of its power to unfairly meddle in our domestic affairs... In other words it costs a great deal of money to be a member and we pay for that each and every year....

kerry 6138 · Post by **kerry 6138** » Tue 31 May 2016 8:25 pm

A hallmark of the European Institute is our strong public profile, making LSE one of the leading platforms in the European Union for informed public discussion about the identity of Europe and the many policy challenges confronting the EU and its member states.

We host over 100 events a year, with an outstanding cast list of high-level speakers from politics, public administration and EU institutions, including presidents, prime ministers, foreign ministers, finance ministers, distinguished scholars and influential commentators.

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Tue 31 May 2016 10:33 pm

Groucho said
Waz,

The out is the reasoned solution - that removing ourself from this unholy alliance, does of itself, provide an opportunity for renewal and a reinvigorated economy away from the restraints the EU imposes upon increasingly chipping away out our ability to retain both our sovereignty, our trading and entrepreneurial culture.

The stay campaign try to make out that we are wanted inside the EU - well I don't believe we are liked at all... you only need look at the way the voting in the Eurovision Song Contest reflects the sentiments of the rest of Europe to the UK.... It's a better benchmark of our likely chance of influence within the EU than any of our leaders' statements.... we don't need them, they don't really want us - didn't want us in the first place and now they are worried that leaving them will expose the great big holes in the EU accounts that we plug to the tune in excess of £165 billion per annum. Money we could well use ourselves to prosper rather than support nations with no will to sort themselves out.

Groucho,
What reasoning ? How will the economy be reinvigorated having left the FREE EU market economy? Our entrepreneurial culture has always been there and is encouraged by access to the European market . To leave makes trading more difficult, more expensive and rife with additional red tape.
It is fact and interviews with EU leaders has supported the notion that the UK IN campaign is supported.
Yu totally fail to see the trade and security advantages of being IN. Please do not think the alleged annual saving will make any difference to the UK prosperity. The loss of advantage by leaving will be far more costly to UK prosperity.

kerry 6138 · Post by **kerry 6138** » Wed 01 Jun 2016 6:49 am

Waz 24 7 What security advantages do we lose if we leave the EU ?

Groucho · Post by **Groucho** » Wed 01 Jun 2016 7:02 am

waz-24-7 wrote:. Please do not think the alleged annual saving will make any difference to the UK prosperity. The loss of advantage by leaving will be far more costly to UK prosperity.

Why use the word 'alleged'? Are you insinuating that we will continue to pay the very large sum to be members if we leave? If we leave and don't pay the very large sum of money then it is axiomatic that we will be better off to the tune of our net contribution... to offset any (and I don't think there will be) drop in trade... Oh they may try but GAT WTO rules will hold them accountable for any attempt to boycott our goods.

You say trade will be hit - many observers with far more business acumen than I say this is simply not true.... You continue to quote our leaders as if we should believe them when they tell us otherwise but many people don't seem to think our leaders are truthful, probably because they have been constantly caught in the lie....

How much is the costly you refer to?

kerry 6138 · Post by **kerry 6138** » Wed 01 Jun 2016 8:15 am

Twaddle wrote:Why is it misinformation? The fact that it doesn't conform to what you believe doesn't make it wrong!
As you may have guessed, I support remaining inside the EU.
I get the impression that many of the people wishing to leave are under the impression that the UK will return to the way that it was in the 50s and 60's and that we won't have an immigration problem any more and we can all live in a lovely rose garden. That ship has definitely sailed I'm afraid. The world is now truly global and we are all moving around it with relative ease. We need to be trading with our main partners on an even playing field.
Like it or not, it is true that since the inception of the EU/ Common Market There have been no major European wars and the prospect of another is, ( I believe) highly unlikely whilst we are so closely bound with other member states.

we had immigration in the sixties and aways will but not uncontrolled immigration on the scale we have has members of the EU, not sure where your rose garden was but I remember 3 day weeks, power cuts, national strikes but at least my dad could vote with a real hope things would change.
How quickly we forget the Bosnian / Kosavan war and how closely bound we would be even outside the EU has fellow members of Nato

Twaddle · Post by **Twaddle** » Wed 01 Jun 2016 8:26 am

Bosnia and Kosovo were not EU members when they had their wars!

jacob · Post by **jacob** » Wed 01 Jun 2016 8:46 am

Twaddle, neither is the Ukraine but the EU cannot stop meddling in the country and creating the situation far worse!!!!

kerry 6138 · Post by **kerry 6138** » Wed 01 Jun 2016 8:50 am

Twaddle wrote:Bosnia and Kosovo were not EU members when they had their wars!

niether where they members of Nato, but they are countries on the European continent But only Nato intervened.
My point being membership of Nato is and has been the reason there haven't been wars not EU membership,
But with rise of right wing political parties recently across the EU who knows.

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Wed 01 Jun 2016 10:36 am

Looking at posts #54 & #55 I considered the size of the "Expat" (Those who have moved out of the UK on a permanent basis and not those lovingly described as "Swallows") population in the TRNC to be to small to be of any significant value to the discussion. As a member of Angloinfo I also took part in their similar poll. Perhaps the results of this will be of more value to the "Expat" population in the TRNC - perhaps not, your choice:

Angloinfo readers vote to stay

More than 4,500 of you who hold UK citizenship participated in the Angloinfo Brexit survey last month. The results were overwhelming with fewer than 3 in 10 planning to vote 'leave.' The numbers were even higher among those who are ineligible to vote, having lived abroad for 15 years or more. Over 80 per cent of this group would vote 'stay' if they could.

http://blogs.angloinfo.com/angloinfo-wo ... Newsletter

Twaddle · Post by **Twaddle** » Wed 01 Jun 2016 12:03 pm

kerry 6138 wrote:
Twaddle wrote:Bosnia and Kosovo were not EU members when they had their wars!
niether where they members of Nato, but they are countries on the European continent But only Nato intervened.
My point being membership of Nato is and has been the reason there haven't been wars not EU membership,
But with rise of right wing political parties recently across the EU who knows.

Only NATO COULD intervene. The EU has no defence element and there is no such thing as EU troops. My point was that the EU enables closer working and general co-operation between members and thus makes conflict less likely.

elizabeth · Post by **elizabeth** » Wed 01 Jun 2016 3:22 pm

Twaddle wrote:
kerry 6138 wrote:
Twaddle wrote:Bosnia and Kosovo were not EU members when they had their wars!
niether where they members of Nato, but they are countries on the European continent But only Nato intervened.
My point being membership of Nato is and has been the reason there haven't been wars not EU membership,
But with rise of right wing political parties recently across the EU who knows.
Only NATO COULD intervene. The EU has no defence element and there is no such thing as EU troops. My point was that the EU enables closer working and general co-operation between members and thus makes conflict less likely.

Watch this space
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05 ... om-voters/

kerry 6138 · Post by **kerry 6138** » Wed 01 Jun 2016 4:57 pm

,

Twaddle wrote:
kerry 6138 wrote:
Twaddle wrote:Bosnia and Kosovo were not EU members when they had their wars!
niether where they members of Nato, but they are countries on the European continent But only Nato intervened.
My point being membership of Nato is and has been the reason there haven't been wars not EU membership,
But with rise of right wing political parties recently across the EU who knows.
Only NATO COULD intervene. The EU has no defence element and there is no such thing as EU troops. My point was that the EU enables closer working and general co-operation between members and thus makes conflict less likely.

Tell that to the Greeks ,Spanish,Italians Irish.
Each member state has a standing army it can deploy if it chooses UK does quite frequently.
Did we not work closely and co-operate has a common market.
Civil wars start with popular rising and civil unrest, the rise of far right parties throughout the EU show that they are not seen has a benevolent organisation and are quite polarising

Groucho · Post by **Groucho** » Thu 02 Jun 2016 6:04 am

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/675750 ... ine-Europe

Even once EU stalwarts have their doubts about the creeping super-state...

kerry 6138 · Post by **kerry 6138** » Thu 28 May 2020 9:46 pm

waz-24-7 wrote: ↑
Sat 07 May 2016 8:18 pm
Turtle,
No of course not. ... Simply Nissan car production will move outside of the UK where the gateway into the European market remains free and open.
Honda. Swindon plant has very recently secured the all NEW Civic 2SV not only for UK but also for the American market. This production is more secure because export to the USA is clear and without uncertainty.
What do you see as the Honda view please.
Trade agreements exist with EU/Turkey not the UK the Honda plant at Gebze is one of the supply chains into Europe. The Ford transit was moved from the UK to Turkey as a cost reduction exercise and to more easily supply middle Europe.

Nissan's UK factory in Sunderland will stay open as the Japanese carmaker carries out a global restructuring amid the coronavirus pandemic.
The carmaker also announced it will close its factory in Barcelona with the loss of about 2,800 jobs,
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52829 ... ting-story

EnjoyingTheSun · Post by **EnjoyingTheSun** » Fri 29 May 2020 7:42 am

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

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