Our UK fishing waters

[EnjoyingTheSun]

As I said above it is getting noticeable that when the Britain = bad nonsense starts that is allowed to run but the minute you try to defend against it the foul flag is immediately thrown up.

[Brinsley]

I treat fish as dear friends similar to those that have similar sentiments to their dogs and cats and should be cherished as such, not an empire grabbing nation to be netted and eaten.
I'd rather eat a Chinese chow mien with dog or cat meat than any form of my beloved fish. However, those that do persist in consuming my dearest, I recommend puffer fish.
Leave their environmental breeding waters alone, it's NOT YOURS but theirs!

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Brinsley, they won’t ever be able to vote so I’d save your breath mate. And if they could they’d probably be a floating voter so you couldn’t rely on them.

[kibsolar1999]

i recommend lionfish...
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... -ecosystem

btw...the only fish on the "green list" is carp.... all the other basically need a good lobby....

[EnjoyingTheSun]

i recommend lionfish...
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... -ecosystem

btw...the only fish on the "green list" is carp.... all the other basically need a good lobby....

I look forward to the save the lion fish marches.
It reminds me of Peter Cook talking about the save the whale movement. He asked where were the whales when we were fighting WW2, they weren’t matching saving save the British they were just eating plankton.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

A thought just struck me.
We are trying to strike a deal with the EU?
The mood of many as I understand it seems to be the fishing has a negligible value and it is just xenophobic Brexiters wanting to keep our waters, Britain never will be slaves etc etc?
So my thought is, if fishing is so worthless and purely nationalism why is the EU fighting so strongly for it?
If I was buying someone’s house I would fight tooth and nail for the garden and fixtures and fittings etc but if the seller wanted to keep a worthless item that just had sentimental value then I’d let them have it just to keep them sweet and push the deal forward.
Why the fight? It’s worthless but has some value to them.

[sophie]

My feeling is that the whole subject is strictly political and of a small monetary value. however the French and Spanish fishing fleets and unions have clout as do the French farmers, so what they say, goes, regardless. Lets face, a very large percentage of the fish caught by Brits in British waters is flogged back to the French. The same goes for Champagne, we are the largest purchasers of the bubbly stuff and shed loads of their cheese is exported to the UK, and the last thing the French want is huge tariffs imposed on it. Its all nonsense.

[thornaby]

Regarding the loss of livelihoods for French and other eu fishermen, I will cry as many tears for them as they did for the uk fishermen and costal towns when their livelihoods were destroyed by the c.f.p. ,, absolutely none, I recall the advice given to the British was retrain!

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Regarding the loss of livelihoods for French and other eu fishermen, I will cry as many tears for them as they did for the uk fishermen and costal towns when their livelihoods were destroyed by the c.f.p. ,, absolutely none, I recall the advice given to the British was retrain!

Well as we keep hearing how minimal the jobs are etc etc and not to make a big deal about it, then their job losses will be minimal, no?

[PoshinDevon]

This really isn't a big deal although its been made out to be. A sizeable chunk of British quota is owned by just five families, four of whom are on the 'rich list'. At the moment British fishermen havethe right to land and sell their catches anywhere within the Eu where they can get the best price which often isn't Peterhead or Grimsby. Also many Eu countries aren't in competition for the same fish that appeal to Uk diners palettes. The quota system means that the owner of the quota has a tradeable commodity and thats whats happened, the smaller guys have sold their quota and got out. The quota ends up in fewer and fewer hands who get bigger and bigger. Fishings conribution to the Uk economy is negligible, its just an emotive subject.

Try telling that to the Devon and Cornish fishermen down our way and see what reply you get. It won’t be pleasant. The U.K. fishing industry has been shafted over the years and whilst it’s not a huge contributor to the U.K. economy, it provides a living for many. To dismiss it and also all those involved in the industry is not an option.

[waddo]

“To dismiss it and also all those involved in the industry is not an option”

Try selling that little gem to the UK steelworkers, thousands of which no longer have jobs or any source of income! I am sure they will all agree with you!

[PoshinDevon]

Steel in the U.K. has been in decline since the late 70s. Time spent in the North East and next to the steelworks in Middlesbrough made me realise that they were just not competitive compared to the likes of China or India. We may not like it but they can produce it at a much more competitive price. Steel production in the U.K. has been failing for at least 3 decades.

Fishing in the U.K. has been shafted by the E.U. For one the regulations. One rule around how close EU boats can fish to our shores compared to British boats is laughable. It is a credit that despite this regulation the industry continue to survive.

Like I say try telling the fishermen down our way that they don’t count. For an area as deprived and under invested as Cornwall it is vital.

[Hedge-fund]

The deal is done.

Please ignore the political play acting.

[Medjoul1]

If our Fishermen have been 'shafted' then its been done by our own goverments that agreed to the quotas, we signed up to them. Don't forget the Fishermen that took the opportunity to cash in on the marketable commodity they were handed, sold the quota (the quota could be traded anywhere within the Eu), sold the boats and all the gear and did what?
Having all signed up to the quota system its unreasonable for us to suddenly state that we are exiting the Eu and therefore exiting the quota system and banning 'foriegn' vessels from our territorial waters. The sensible route would either have been to let representaives of the respective Fisheries negotiate it, not politicians or, all parties to agree to a 'sliding scale' of quota to minimise the economic and social damage that would inevitably be the result of a 'line in the sand' approach. To me its typical of our gov. that we have such an adversarial approach to any negotiations.
Lastly, lets not forget the fact that the majority of species caught in inshore waters are not consumed within the Uk and that also includes Shellfish and Crustacea. We have to market thes somewhere and the likelihood is that more Uk vessels will turn to foreign register and not land their catches in the Uk. A sensible pragmatic approach is required not Xenophobia and threats.

[dwr]

Why does no one mention these facts. We will control our seas but the vast majority of U.K. registered boats,trawlers etc.are foreigned(EU) owned. Where will their catches go?

[Dalartokat]

Why does no one mention these facts. We will control our seas but the vast majority of U.K. registered boats,trawlers etc.are foreigned(EU) owned. Where will their catches go?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/52420116

[thornaby]

Medjoul1, ok we had an agreement to mutual share things, for example the tools in our sheds. When that agreement comes to an end, you think its reasonable for you to continue walking into my shed and using my tools? The C.F.P. was a treacherous betrayal of British fishermen by the then UK government who wanted to join the "common market " at any cost. The miserable quotas given to our fishing industry left impossible for many to continue in that profession so many had little option other then to take the offer of money from the Eu to stop fishing. An offer that was made on the condition they destroyed their boats, an offer that was to ensure they never went to sea again. The French fishermen never shed a tear for the British ones when their livelihoods were destroyed so I will not shed a tear for them.

[Bomdas]

Never were my fish. They were never 'our' fish either.
If I want fish, I have to go and give money - and I don't much care who takes it or shares it - provided their fish seem clean and fresh.

As to 'our' waters, I remain excluded from most UK riverbanks because someone else 'owns' the riparian rights ... so no free fish there then unless I sneak to some foamy corner or a rotten smelling ditch and do a little light poaching ... can't be arsed.

On the high seas, somebody decides that they have a six mile limit, or a two hundred mile limit - once again, 'twas never mine or 'ours' but some inbred toff with an eye to a margin scrapes just a little tax here and there - to register or license something or other.

All of this thread, blaming supposedly vengeful Europeans is a smokescreen to cover the truth of the matter. Brexit was foisted on the populace by vested interests who intend to be in the tiny minority to benefit from the farrago that is coming.
Project Farrago, the reality behind Project Fear.

As to the majority - well, they have their great victory - now let them eat 'sovereignty'.

[thornaby]

Bomdas, your understanding of whats yours or not yours will certainly be out of touch with many countries that are removing from their waters the vast Chinese fishing fleets. As for the Europeans their actions have been shameful just like the fith columnists in the uk. I for one will rejoice at regaining our sovereignty!

[kerry 6138]

...................... 'our fish '.................

When did wild sea/ocean fish belong to anyone? What did you do to claim them as yours or ours?

When Iceland threatened to leave Nato because RN sent frigates to protect fishing boats after they unilaterally increased their limit to 200 miles from shore.
Since 1982, a 200-nautical-mile (370-kilometre) exclusive economic zone has been the international standard under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea.
The Common Fisheries Policy has been a major reason for countries with both substantial fish resources and small home markets, like Norway, Iceland,and Danish dependencies (Greenland and the Faroe Islands) and some other dependencies, to stay outside the European Union.

[kibsolar1999]

poshin
Try telling that to the Devon and Cornish fishermen down our way and see what reply you get. It won’t be pleasant.

Try telling that to the eg, french fishermen and see what reply you get. It won’t be pleasant.

ok, despite of that, anybody who thinks the "fishery problem" is the main difficulty in a EU-UK agreement is completely wrong.

[kerry 6138]

If the EU issue quota's annually presumably they are traded annually.
The EEZ allows home fishing fleets exclusive fishing rights out to 12 miles and control of who has access out to 200 miles, there is no reason EU fishing boats wont be allowed to fish with agreement of the UK which would allow the UK fleet to recover, but what appears to be happening is the French are demanding continuous rights in perpetuity, which doesn't recognise our sovereignty or follow international agreements.

[Mimosanow]

As this thread shows, fishing is a very emotive subject for all true Brits. Without taking sides, I would like to look at a couple of hard and fast facts, pre-Brexit.
1. The fishing quota for each country is decided by the EU. It is the UK Government that then distributes our quota among the UK fleet. The vast majority of UK boats is British-owned small craft (less than 10m long) fishing inshore waters, but our Government chooses to allocate just 6% of our quota to them.
2. The UK could have fought for a bigger share of the total EU catch through our MEP representative on the European Parliament Fisheries Committee. Unfortunately he only bothered to turn up for 1 of the 42 meetings held during his 3-year tenure. And he did not cast a vote in the the 3 significant European Parliament debates aimed at improving fishing legislation. Chap by the name of Farage.

[PoshinDevon]

poshin
Try telling that to the Devon and Cornish fishermen down our way and see what reply you get. It won’t be pleasant.

Try telling that to the eg, french fishermen and see what reply you get. It won’t be pleasant.

ok, despite of that, anybody who thinks the "fishery problem" is the main difficulty in a EU-UK agreement is completely wrong.

Nowhere have I said fishing is the main difficulty in agreeing a trade deal with the EU. It is one of a few areas which have yet to be resolved.

Personally I believe the U.K. and EU are close to agreement on a deal. There is a lot of posturing on both sides as politically they must be seen not to give way on certain key areas. It may not happen by year end but that does not mean that’s it. The negotiations will continue into next year and both sides will sign an agreement eventually.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Brexit was foisted on the populace

This would be the populace that voted for it. The populace who voted for UKIP in vast numbers to show their dissatisfaction? The populace who then followed up by giving Boris Johnson a healthy 80 seat majority because he assured them he would get Brexit done? One of the main factors the Red Wall went blue was because those constituencies had voted for Brexit and wanted it done. That populace?

However joining the EEC WAS foisted on the populace. We never voted for it and it was a tiny part of Heath's manifesto of the time unlike Johnson's manifesto of 2019. We never voted for any of the treaties that changed what we thought was a trading block into something quite different.

The EU has shown throughout its history that they do not really trust voters of any country to see it their way and will foist wherever possible

[EnjoyingTheSun]

So we have agreed that the fishing is a tiny part of the negotiation?
So again the reason why I bumped the thread. If it is such a trivial thing and the EU are trying to get a deal in good faith then why are they playing such hardball? If it is valueless why fight?

If I agreed to buy your house and contents and you mentioned that you want to take the Home Sweet Home embroidery that your dead Grandmother made, why would I make a fuss? It has no monetary value to either of us but major sentimental value to you.
I'd be just be being cantankerous to insist its now mine

[Bomdas]

Blaming the EU 'dictatorship'? What a surprise, EJS.

If I agreed to buy fishing rights and paid for them in full, they would be mine until I decided to sell them on.

It would be cantankerous to insist that my decades old agreements had expired.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Blaming the EU 'dictatorship'? What a surprise, EJS.

If I agreed to buy fishing rights and paid for them in full, they would be mine until I decided to sell them on.

It would be cantankerous to insist that my decades old agreements had expired.

Did I call the EU a dictatorship? I don’t think it is the most democratic body there is but don’t put words in my mouth. You don’t seem to understand how a referendum works so you might be a bit confused by democracies and dictatorships.
Please explain how the EU have bought fishing rights as you seem to have moved on from Brexit being foisted on the populace.

[johnerebus]

I'm larfin me ead off at this topic. I assume from your views most of you will be well into your 90s and remember and so want back the time when Britain was "Great"? Lets face it The DisUnited Queendom of the UK is no longer and never will be again a world power. It just thinks it is with Boris sending warships to defend a little fishy on a plate and murdering the mainly elderly citizens of the DisUnited Queendom.

We're all gonna be dead soon so don't worry your little heads about a fish or two.

Take illegal drugs. Have lots of sex with both genders. Try tocomplete all moves in the Kama Sutra before you pop your clogs.

btw I don't do logic, common sense or normal. Much too boring at my age of 77. Just my opinion of course but so was yours just an opinion innit

[Bomdas]

EtS
Those were not quotes around the word 'dictatorship' EtS, so don't blame me for your poor eyesight - perhaps something you overindulged in?

You and most of those who continue to promote Brexit are desperate to blame the EU for the arrogance, incompetence and outright lies of those fools who are supposed to be leading the UK to the sunlit uplands. Fat chance.

My knowledge of referenda may be incomplete, but I am aware of the part played by five of the UK's richest businessmen (including the odious Aaron Banks and hedge fund manager Crispin Odey) in funding the lies and deceit which preceded the vote and persuaded a narrow majority.
Lies and deceit which continue to be peddled, seemingly oblivious to the enormous damage that Brexit brings.

It was never about fish, or jobs in that industry. Nigel Farage wants immigration controls, and cares nothing for Cornish fishermen or anyone else. His jaunt up the Thames in a fishing boat was just another lie.

The EU issued fishing rights - why would they need to buy them? Quotas were sold by individuals and companies - UK fishermen sold to their european peers, along with their boats and gear in some cases.
Your attempted obfuscation of those cold hard facts does you no credit, EtS.
I agree that the quota system is unfit for purpose, but that's not the fault of some Dutch or French chap who paid good money to get a better quota, and has the evidence to prove it.
For HMG to unilaterally overturn those quota transfers is morally bankrupt, and legally doubtful. It will be challenged in various courts and newspapers for years if Boris sticks to the daft idea.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

EtS
Those were not quotes around the word 'dictatorship' EtS, so don't blame me for your poor eyesight - perhaps something you overindulged in?

Don’t know where you are going with this. To the best of my knowledge you put the word dictatorship in my mouth. I wouldn’t get insulting whilst I don’t usually have a battle of wits with someone unarmed it doesn’t mean I can’t bite back.

You and most of those who continue to promote Brexit are desperate to blame the EU for the arrogance, incompetence and outright lies of those fools who are supposed to be leading the UK to the sunlit uplands. Fat chance.

I’m not promoting it, it’s happening. The country voted for it and the government is carrying out their wishes which isn’t always the case

My knowledge of referenda may be incomplete, but I am aware of the part played by five of the UK's richest businessmen (including the odious Aaron Banks and hedge fund manager Crispin Odey) in funding the lies and deceit which preceded the vote and persuaded a narrow majority.
Lies and deceit which continue to be peddled, seemingly oblivious to the enormous damage that Brexit brings.

This is the nasty toffs bit right? Both sides spent a lot of money both sides told lies. The government spent leaver money sending us leaflets pushing the remain case.

It was never about fish, or jobs in that industry. Nigel Farage wants immigration controls, and cares nothing for Cornish fishermen or anyone else. His jaunt up the Thames in a fishing boat was just another lie.

The EU issued fishing rights - why would they need to buy them? Quotas were sold by individuals and companies - UK fishermen sold to their european peers, along with their boats and gear in some cases.
Your attempted obfuscation of those cold hard facts does you no credit, EtS.
I agree that the quota system is unfit for purpose, but that's not the fault of some Dutch or French chap who paid good money to get a better quota, and has the evidence to prove it.
For HMG to unilaterally overturn those quota transfers is morally bankrupt, and legally doubtful. It will be challenged in various courts and newspapers for years if Boris sticks to the daft idea.

Any quota system that sees tens of millions of perfectly good fish thrown in the water dead every year in these days of conservation has a lot more wrong with it than who compensates who for a deal that has now ended.

As for Farage he was pushing at an open door re Brexit and it wasn’t about immigration it was about having more control of our borders amongst other things.

How many fisherman threw the towel in and sold up because of the overfishing by Spanish fishermen amongst others. Our fisherman certainly seemed to have more idea about sustainable fishing than EU fishermen. There have been several programs on this, educate yourself.

Brexit has been batted around on here for years. As you have come late to the party maybe read some old threads and you will see everyone’s position on this. Not many have changed that position.

The problem now is the covid lockdown will be felt throughout our economy next year so I fully expect remainers to lump the pain from that down to Brexit.

[thornaby]

The French have fished the Med to almost empty so much so that our Lord and masters in the Eu are placing big restrictions on what can now be fished. This of course makes the French in particular not very happy when that loss is compounded by the plunder they are loosing in British waters!

[Brazen]

...................... 'our fish '.................

When did wild sea/ocean fish belong to anyone? What did you do to claim them as yours or ours?

When Iceland threatened to leave Nato because RN sent frigates to protect fishing boats after they unilaterally increased their limit to 200 miles from shore.
Since 1982, a 200-nautical-mile (370-kilometre)
exclusive economic zone has been the international standard under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea.
The Common Fisheries Policy has been a major reason for countries with both substantial fish resources and small home markets, like Norway, Iceland,and Danish dependencies (Greenland and the Faroe Islands) and some other dependencies, to stay outside the European Union.

The fish belong to no one until they are caught but the waters they live in belong, by international law, to the UK. Any country with a coastline “owns” the waters along it. Can we go and help ourselves to the grapes in french vineyards?

[Bomdas]

I’m not promoting it, it’s happening. The country voted for it and the government is carrying out their wishes which isn’t always the case

Government acting against their wishes? Telling lies and sending leaflets? Say it isn't so ... only the EU would act in such dastardly ways!

Any quota system that sees tens of millions of perfectly good fish thrown in the water dead every year in these days of conservation has a lot more wrong with it than who compensates who for a deal that has now ended.

You're right about the by-catch rules, I await your constructive solutions .... or are you like so many Brexiteers, happy to pontificate with no understanding and no workable solutions to offer?
You don't care about who compensates who? see above. Hope you have deep pockets.

As for Farage he was pushing at an open door re Brexit and it wasn’t about immigration it was about having more control of our borders amongst other things.

Control of your borders? How is that going for you? Priti Vacant can't control her own temper tantrums. Kent will shortly be Farage's (unfinished and very muddy) garage.

Brexit has been batted around on here for years. As you have come late to the party maybe read some old threads and you will see everyone’s position on this. Not many have changed that position.

Wear your old threads out yourself. I am never late to a party, but sometimes prefer to stay in the kitchen rather than challenge crashing bores.

The problem now is the covid lockdown will be felt throughout our economy next year so I fully expect remainers to lump the pain from that down to Brexit.

I fully expect they will. There will be plenty of pain to go round, and of course you can never admit your entirely voluntary contribution to the total.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Government acting against their wishes? Telling lies and sending leaflets? Say it isn't so ... only the EU would act in such dastardly ways!

The people voted to leave and confirmed it in 2019 to all intents and purposes. When the majority of people vote for something do you not think a government should do it?
Both sides told lies. The government should have stayed neutral but sent a pro remain leaflet to every household just before expenses would be tallied.

You're right about the by-catch rules, I await your constructive solutions .... or are you like so many Brexiteers, happy to pontificate with no understanding and no workable solutions to offer?
You don't care about who compensates who? see above. Hope you have deep pockets.

What a workable solution to fishing boats throwing dead fish back in the ocean? Errr don't?
As for compensation if we leave without a deal we will have saved an awful lot of money on our divorce bill won't we?

Control of your borders? How is that going for you? Priti Vacant can't control her own temper tantrums. Kent will shortly be Farage's (unfinished and very muddy) garage.

At the moment we are still tied to the EU so it is an irrelevant question. Moving on OUR government could of course cock it up but then the majority of the people if they aren't happy can remove them at a general election. Personally I can't remember voting for Ursula Gertrud von der Leyen

Wear your old threads out yourself. I am never late to a party, but sometimes prefer to stay in the kitchen rather than challenge crashing bores.

As I say this has been hashed over on here with monotonous regularity. So it might surprise you that what you are cutting and pasting from twitter or wherever isn't as fresh as you might think. So read old threads or if that is difficult have someone read them to you.

I fully expect they will. There will be plenty of pain to go round, and of course you can never admit your entirely voluntary contribution to the total.

Me and 17 million others. It's happening, suck it up. People sucked up the EU for nearly 50 years despite not voting to join it.
This whole democracy, majority, will of the people seems a bit complicated to you. Maybe have someone explain it to you?
Or have them read this for you. Not read it myself but I'm sure it will be pretty simple for you.

[Bomdas]

The people voted to leave and confirmed it in 2019 to all intents and purposes. When the majority of people vote for something do you not think a government should do it?
Both sides told lies. The government should have stayed neutral but sent a pro remain leaflet to every household just before expenses would be tallied.

So you completely missed the point that your brave noble 'sovereign' UK Tory government did all that and not the EU? Or perhaps you jchose to ignore the obvious - a common trait.

What a workable solution to fishing boats throwing dead fish back in the ocean? Errr don't?

Sell everything you net then, regardless of regulation or guidance? Yeah. Sorted ...

As for compensation if we leave without a deal we will have saved an awful lot of money on our divorce bill won't we?

If you are happy being a pariah, untrusted and disliked by everyone you used to trade with.
That's what happens when you step outside international law.

At the moment we are still tied to the EU so it is an irrelevant question. Moving on OUR government could of course cock it up but then the majority of the people if they aren't happy can remove them at a general election. Personally I can't remember voting for Ursula Gertrud von der Leyen

I can't remember voting for Boris, or Priti Vacant, or Honest Bob Jenrick, but no matter. Blame the EU, as though they control small boat traffic in the channel, and UK customs arrangements. Nobody will notice, and you can blame covid-19 next year.

As I say this has been hashed over on here with monotonous regularity. So it might surprise you that what you are cutting and pasting from twitter or wherever isn't as fresh as you might think. So read old threads or if that is difficult have someone read them to you.

None of your polemic is new to me - as I said, wear your old threads out yourself.

People sucked up the EU for nearly 50 years despite not voting to join it.

Strange - you mean they didn't miss 'sovereignty' and 'control of borders' for half a century? Until they fell for a pack of lies and vacuous promises?

[PoshinDevon]

We have left the EU which is what the majority voted for.

That’s democracy.

Some may not be in favour of democracy but it works for me.

Maybe in another 50 years we will have another referendum and decide to rejoin the EU..... if it is still in existence. Again that’s how democracy works.

[Kanonier]

I can't remember voting for Boris, or Priti Vacant, or Honest Bob Jenrick, but no matter.

Assuming that you are a UK citizen you would have been entitled to vote for Boris. We weren't given that opportunity when Frau von der Leyen chucked her hat in the ring.

[Bomdas]

Assuming that you are a UK citizen you would have been entitled to vote for Boris. We weren't given that opportunity when Frau von der Leyen chucked her hat in the ring.

If only it were so straightforward.

In the UK, If entitled to vote, you can only vote to elect your local MP in a general election. You cannot vote for a new Prime Minister. Even if you live in the constituency represented by the (self) serving Prime Minister you are still only voting for him as your local MP. Shame on you if you did.

Following a Tory party rule change, 2019 was the first time that Conservative Party members directly elected a Prime Minister.
I did not vote for or against the narcissistic serial liar and philanderer, because I was not entitled to do so.

The European Parliament elected Ursula von der Leyen President of the European Commission in a secret ballot on 16 July and she took office on 1 November 2019 for a five-year term. That's not my fault either ,
Let me think now; how did I vote during the election for Dominic Cummings - alas I seem to have a gap in my memory.

Finally TRNC citizens get to vote for their President but UK citizens can't choose their monarch.

Got all of that? Excellent.

[waz-24-7]

This really isn't a big deal although its been made out to be. A sizeable chunk of British quota is owned by just five families, four of whom are on the 'rich list'. At the moment British fishermen havethe right to land and sell their catches anywhere within the Eu where they can get the best price which often isn't Peterhead or Grimsby. Also many Eu countries aren't in competition for the same fish that appeal to Uk diners palettes. The quota system means that the owner of the quota has a tradeable commodity and thats whats happened, the smaller guys have sold their quota and got out. The quota ends up in fewer and fewer hands who get bigger and bigger. Fishings conribution to the Uk economy is negligible, its just an emotive subject.

Agreed and well stated.
Furthermore:
Fishing in general has reduced fish stocks across the globe. Quotas and EU (inc UK) policies are another attempt to allow regeneration. Given the ownership of quotas is a saleable commodity. The UK fishing industry has been exported regardless' both in stocks and quotas and boat ownership.
Those small cottage industry inshore boats along our coast will continue to take a small living from a declining industry. Free range fishing is slowly being replaced by farming of most valuable species. It's all but done I'm afraid.
The negotiations upon a deal are, I believe; clear upon this topic and its bottom of the list of win at all costs. A trade deal is the most important by far.

[Medjoul1]

Its no wonder that the whole Brexit thing is such a debacle when you think about it. Hasn't Dimbleby just said that this is the lowest government in his memory and to be fair he has seen a few.
Some of the cabinet have been sacked from previous administrations including the philanderer in chief. Gavin Williams who has made such a success of Education, sacked by Theresa May for leaking to the press. Priti (vacant) Patel who sneaked off to have cosy unofficial chats with the Israelis and her boss at the time, the philanderer. We've got 'I acted unlawfully but didn't do anything wrong' Jenrick when he saved his chum millions and Dominic Raab who didn't know Dover was a port. Lets not forget Matty H who has had a new verb named after him, hancockery. The philanderers latest sacking was by Michael Howerd when he lied about having an affair, how times have changed. It turns out that he did lie to all when he said he didn't have an affair with Ms Accuri, she has a different recollection but his chums in th press made sure it was swept under the carpet. he was doing a little more than helping her fill in the grant forms for the hundreds of thousands she was going to get from the taxpayers for doing .......what exactly?
To think that the futures of my children and grand children are going to be swept on a tide to Brexit utopia by this miserable self serving cabal. The good fishermen of Devon and Cornwall have nothing to fear.

[thornaby]

Brexit will be a success, yes there may be difficulties in the short term but the rewards of being a free and independent sovereign country again will more then compensate. 15 days to freedom!

[EnjoyingTheSun]

So you completely missed the point that your brave noble 'sovereign' UK Tory government did all that and not the EU? Or perhaps you jchose to ignore the obvious - a common trait.

I thought we were talking about the British government? Many members on both parties are pro the EU. Blair is a huge fan. Corbyn I don’t believe is but as he sat on the fence for 5 years who knows? It might have lost him the election but.....
As for ignoring the obvious, we voted to leave we are leaving. The fact that you have just woke up about it isn't the point.

Sell everything you net then, regardless of regulation or guidance? Yeah. Sorted ...

The regulations and guidance have caused more problems than they have solved which is always the trait of bodies that over regulate. Off the top of my head, you could withdraw their fishing rights for over fishing or you could let market prices decide. If the EU didn’t interfere in protectionism then if fishermen put a glut of cod on the market then the price would eventually plummet making it unviable. Whatever solution must be better than throwing dead fish back in the water when people in the world are starving and species are disappearing.

If you are happy being a pariah, untrusted and disliked by everyone you used to trade with.
That's what happens when you step outside international law.

Pariah? Breaking International law? Getting a bit carried away there. We can more freely trade more with existing customers or suppliers outside the EU and find new ones. Or, and this may be a shock maybe if the business is good people will trade with you even if they don’t like you? Shock eh? I’ll bet you might find that some businesses don’t love everyone the do business with?

I can't remember voting for Boris, or Priti Vacant, or Honest Bob Jenrick, but no matter. Blame the EU, as though they control small boat traffic in the channel, and UK customs arrangements. Nobody will notice, and you can blame covid-19 next year.

Maybe you aren’t British and couldn’t vote in 2019? It would explain the difficulty understanding English. Every country’s economy will be in trouble next year due to the covid lockdown. The difference in the U.K. is the remainers will blame it all on Brexit.

None of your polemic is new to me - as I said, wear your old threads out yourself.

It’s just this is a little dull going over the same old thing. I know you’ve been in the kitchen for 4 years trying to work the kettle but it’s all old hat. I’ve got a shock for you the Kent line isn’t new. Have you got any Michael Jackson jokes that you are desperate to share?

Strange - you mean they didn't miss 'sovereignty' and 'control of borders' for half a century? Until they fell for a pack of lies and vacuous promises?

That’s a bit like saying the British people obviously didn’t miss bananas during the war. It wasn’t that we suddenly believed a pack of lies it means it was the first time in 40 years we had an opportunity to vote on it.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

If only it were so straightforward.

In the UK, If entitled to vote, you can only vote to elect your local MP in a general election. You cannot vote for a new Prime Minister. Even if you live in the constituency represented by the (self) serving Prime Minister you are still only voting for him as your local MP. Shame on you if you did.

No it really is very straightforward.
The first past the post system isn't perfect but it's as good as any. Would you prefer PR. That would have meant that given UKIP's votes in 2015 they would have got a nice few MPS.
You vote to put a party in government. Now it maybe because you will vote for the party no matter who the leader is. It maybe that party politics don't really mean much but that the leader of one particular party attracts you. Anyhow the leader of that party who wins the election becomes Prime Minister.

Following a Tory party rule change, 2019 was the first time that Conservative Party members directly elected a Prime Minister.
I did not vote for or against the narcissistic serial liar and philanderer, because I was not entitled to do so.

Callaghan and Brown both become Prime Ministers without winning a General Election. It happens, boo hoo.

Let me think now; how did I vote during the election for Dominic Cummings - alas I seem to have a gap in my memory.

Cummings wasn't an elected official he was an employee. As an employee he got sacked. He also wasn't President of The European Commission which if the EU has it's way will be as powerful a role as the U.S. President.

Finally TRNC citizens get to vote for their President but UK citizens can't choose their monarch.

OK anti-royalist too? Magic grandpa lost, suck that up too.
The Queen is the Head of State and has purely ceremonial powers. I'm sure most Bowels Clubs vote for their president, what's the relevance to world affairs or Brexit?

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Its no wonder that the whole Brexit thing is such a debacle when you think about it. Hasn't Dimbleby just said that this is the lowest government in his memory and to be fair he has seen a few.

David Dimbleby?
You bring his name like he is some unbiased sage, Dimbleby is pretty much a communist.
Anyone remember his unbiased coverage of the EU Referendum? I thought he was going to burst into tears.
The far left haven't stopped moaning about Question Time since he left it because now it is a bit more balanced they think that is a lurch to the right given how biased it was under his stewardship.

[Bomdas]

Maybe you aren’t British and couldn’t vote in 2019? It would explain the difficulty understanding English. Every country’s economy will be in trouble next year due to the covid lockdown. The difference in the U.K. is the remainers will blame it all on Brexit.

Already covered in previous posts. Try reading them properly.
Brexiteers will endlessly blame anyone and anything but themselves.

That’s a bit like saying the British people obviously didn’t miss bananas during the war. It wasn’t that we suddenly believed a pack of lies it means it was the first time in 40 years we had an opportunity to vote on it.

Ah yes, let's reference WW2.
I wasn't around, and neither were you.
Was the old straight bananas story not one of Boris's earlier jolly japes (meaning outright lies) about the EU? Shape of things to come.

We can more freely trade more with existing customers or suppliers outside the EU and find new ones.

Fantasist.

Those oven ready deals turned out to be empty promises.
Japan? Mexico? Sure - that's going to make up for the delays, the tariffs, red tape and distrust from the largest trading bloc in the world. The one on the doorstep.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Already covered in previous posts. Try reading them properly.
Brexiteers will endlessly blame anyone and anything but themselves.

I've read them. You need someone to explain how democracy and elections work.
Remainers will give the EU credit for every good thing that has happened to the UK in 50 years and will give Brexit the blame for anything bad to happen in the next 50.
But here is the thing, right or wrong the people voted to leave. You acknowledge that? Do you think the government should ignore the people?

Ah yes, let's reference WW2.
I wasn't around, and neither were you.
Was the old straight bananas story not one of Boris's earlier jolly japes (meaning outright lies) about the EU? Shape of things to come.

I wasn't around when Julius Caesar invaded Britain but I'm happy to accept he did. You should try a book you might enjoy them.
The point was rationing or things over which you have no control. Not having the opportunity to change things doesn't imply acceptance or consent. We finally got the opportunity to vote and we did. UKIP didn't grow out of a vacuum or apathy they grew because people were unhappy with the EU.

Sure - that's going to make up for the delays, the tariffs, red tape and distrust from the largest trading bloc in the world. The one on the doorstep.

I'm sure the EU will produce delays, tariffs and red tape, they specialise in it. The Germans want to sort out a deal for us and tbh they are the only country in the EU that really matters. They want to sort it because they want to sell. The French want to punish us because they are a nation of bureaucrats and have a role in the EU that far exceeds their status in the world.
Here's an interesting little project. Look at countries throughout the world including European countries not in the EU and see their economic indicators, GDP growth rates etc compared with the EU. By and large you will discover that most have outperformed the EU which makes me think that over the last 50 years we would have done better out than in.
Our economy was screwed by 1979 despite being in the EU for a fair few years. Thatcher turned it round not the EU. Remoaners will give the EU the credit but where was the bounce from 1972 to 1979 from joining the EU?

[johnerebus]

ENJOYINGTHE SUN...

"Dimbleby is pretty much a communist."

Communist?

Oh no!

So was Charlie Chaplin.... Among many millions of others who seek a better world for all not just the few.

[Bomdas]

You need someone to explain how democracy and elections work.

It won't be a kipper fantasist.

Not having the opportunity to change things doesn't imply acceptance or consent.

Why would that apply to you, but not me? I reserve the right to remind you how stupid and destructive you have been in perpetuity.

I'm sure the EU will produce delays, tariffs and red tape, they specialise in it.

Not that the British and in particular HMG have any such reputation. Perish the thought.
Your dislike of burdensome regulation doesn't mesh well with what you have brought on all of us.

The French want to punish us because they are a nation of bureaucrats and have a role in the EU that far exceeds their status in the world.

French fishermen have hauled their nets in the channel for centuries. It's not them who suddenly want to change all of the rules all at the same time, with no notice or compensation.

where was the bounce from 1972 to 1979 from joining the EU?

When can we expect a bounce from leaving?
Other than a dead cat bounce as the hedge fund leeches short sterling and asset strippers move through the high street and industrial parks like piranhas?
Fifty years or so according to Lord Snooty-Mogg. No bloody use to me then, or to my kids.

[thornaby]

Bomdas your comments regarding French fishermen fishing in the Channel for centuries is of absolutely no relevance for two reasons. Its been four years since the democratic decision was made to leave the Eu, plenty of notice i think, how much time do these people need? Let them fish in the channel by all means just not in our waters without our consent. The bitterness of some remoaners seem to cloud their sense of what is right and wrong and as I have said before they shed no tears for the decimation of the Uk fishing fleet. Have a nice 15 days before we are finally out of the Eu cess pit!